Real Estate is a Circus Right Now

[Jim Becker]

Professor Dr. SWMBO and I are "more than casually" looking for our "downsize" property. The two of us do not need such a large home and property going forward as our older daughter is already living "independently" in town (she's a special needs adult, so isn't totally independent) and the younger, who is about to graduate from Penn State, is living at her boyfriend's parents' house more than half the time. So it's just the two of us and three birds most of the time in "this nest".

The combination of low interest rates and very little inventory has created a virtual circus of the process. To-date, we've offered and lost on three properties...bidding generously and with an escalator as well as a larger deposit. We are also pre-approved for financing without selling our current property. Yet...no dice. Today's loss was to an offer that was actually less than our maximum in the escalation clause. Why? The successful bidder eschewed inspections, something we are not willing to do. We toured this house at 15:30 yesterday afternoon and our offer was in the hands of the selling agent four hours later...the only reason it took that long was our agent having one other client appointment on his way back to his office and the paperwork servers were dead slow for some reason. (it's all done electronic these days)

We are very glad we don't have to sell first as it may be a very long time before we "score" on an attractive and appropriate situation that checks most of our boxes. Sheesh...:o

[Jim Matthews]

What's the rental market like, in your region?

It's a good time to sell, and this can't last.

[Ron Citerone]

Stay patient, easy for me to say. I don't even now how someone decides how to bid in these circumstances, especially when looking at a house that just came onto the market. You never know how many might be interested or what they will bid.

Way back when we bought our house, houses were selling like hot cakes and people were bidding full price, but not over. We bid $1000 less than the offer while 2 others bid the asking price. They were FHA and we were conventional with income to get easy loan approval so they took our offer mainly because of no FHA.

[Doug Dawson]

It’s helpful to have an agent so on the ball that he/she knows what’s coming on the market _before_ it actually does, and have the ability to swoop in with a cash offer. That avoids a hornets nest of impediments.

[Bruce King]

We decided to move 3 1/2 years ago and had a stressful process. We were buying in the same area as our vacation townhome but just needed to sell the main house first. We had been learning the vast differences around here for 5 years. I had to have an elevated house to get the garage space I wanted. Most of those are large and on the marsh or water and about $300 per sf. We found a 2700sf one on small tidal creek for less. It was for sale by owner and about 8 months before we would be ready and luckily we didn’t have a realtor yet because they weren’t going to pay a dime to a realtor. I thought it would be gone soon but their new house wasn’t ready and it was hard to get him to show it. Then it’s still on the market later and I did a flat fee listing on our house to get it on the MLS. I priced it high to leave negotiation room and in case it didn’t sell for a year or two the price needed to include appreciation since it’s not a good idea to raise the price. Got a cash contract for full price in a few hours but contingent on a school system to finish all their due diligence on their land to build a school. Luckily the guy didn’t get a better offer while we were stressing over the sale. We had to get out of our house before this one closed. Ended up selling a lot and filled up a 1000 Sf basement in the 2nd home, floor to ceiling with my shop and garage stuff. We are DIY people so we moved everything except the real heavy stuff we had it loaded on uhauls and we drove them down and had movers unload. Anything smaller than the 26ft super mover trucks are terrible for highway driving. Most stressful move of my life.

[Brian Elfert]

Many homeowners don't have the means to buy a second home before their current home is sold. It is so hard to find a house to buy that people are avoiding selling their house. They are afraid of being homeless and having to find a place to store all of their stuff while they search for another house to buy.

I look at what houses are for sale locally on occasion just for the heck of it. Most of the houses in the $200,000 to $400,000 range are listed as "active contingent" which means they are basically sold already. The suburb my parents in had one house for sale last I checked a week or two ago.

[roger wiegand]

The last two houses we participated in buying (our current one and our son's) we skipped the formal inspections and purchased "as-is" with no contingencies. In a tight market it seems to convey a huge advantage, I guess enough sellers have heard about or already been burned by the buyers from you-know-where who come up with long lists of absurd demands and requests for price reductions after the initial handshake.

Having rebuilt a couple houses and having read and studied for a number of years (at the level of reading Fine Homebuilding and Journal of Light Construction) for years, plus some accumulated common sense, I find that I can do at least as well, and often better at evaluating a house than most of the certified "inspectors" that people are hiring. (There are really great inspectors out there, and it's worth finding one; too many though just go through their checklist and don't really think about the building) Even if you don't have confidence in your own ability, there's nothing to prevent you from bringing a pro with you when you go to do the walk-through of the house prior to offer. Yes, you'll pay a bit for ones that don't work out, but it can make you a more competitive bidder. I suppose it helps that I've always been looking for houses in need of sweat equity, not a turnkey perfect property. I would never ask the departing owner to do any repairs; that's a virtual guarantee of a "lowest bidder" quality job. Instead I adjust what I'm willing to pay based on the conditions I find.

I also simply assume that common problems will exist-- lead paint in an older house, unless there's evidence or documentation of mitigation; radon, depending on your local soil conditions; termites somewhere, you just need to find them and how extensive they are. Most houses need upgrades in air sealing and insulation. Fortunately problems with plumbing, electrical, wet basements, leaky bathroom fixtures that have resulting rot, structural issues, and roof water problems are typically self-evident, so relatively easy to account for. In MA you need to have a certified working septic to sell a house, so that's a big item off the list.

[Jim Becker]

It’s helpful to have an agent so on the ball that he/she knows what’s coming on the market _before_ it actually does, and have the ability to swoop in with a cash offer. That avoids a hornets nest of impediments.

We have an excellent agent. Cash offer isn't going to happen because that would cost 20+% in taxes. ;)

[Jim Becker]

Many homeowners don't have the means to buy a second home before their current home is sold. It is so hard to find a house to buy that people are avoiding selling their house. They are afraid of being homeless and having to find a place to store all of their stuff while they search for another house to buy.

Yes, we are fortunate to be able to do this without selling first. But even then, we are potentially needing to store stuff if the target property requires me to build a building for a shop. I could keep stuff here for some reasonable period of time, but the overlap between when we buy and when we sell isn't intended to be long-term. One we missed out on last week (nirvana...actually in-town "walkable")...would have needed a shop building, for example, and there was no covered space on the very small property to physically store tools. Rental space needed in that case. The one we lost yesterday had a shop building (24x24 which is smaller than I prefer, but workable) but still would have required storing my big tools, likely in the garage of the house with a later rental of a turf-capable fork lift or skid steer to get them "out back" to the building which had no driveway.



I look at what houses are for sale locally on occasion just for the heck of it. Most of the houses in the $200,000 to $400,000 range are listed as "active contingent" which means they are basically sold already. The suburb my parents in had one house for sale last I checked a week or two ago.

Stuff here goes Pending or Contingent within a day or two of listing. It sure would be nice to be able to find a $200-400K property around here, but that's just not going to happen! Sometimes, there's a property in the mid-300s that needs a ton of work, but those most often get scarfed up in cash deals to flippers. We have seen and bidding on a property at $480K plus escalator, but that sold for $510K which was above our ceiling for that offer based on the property. (would have had to build a building there and the logistics of that would have been "fun" due to the nature of access from the street)

We are not free to relocate to a "less expensive" area because Professor Dr. SWMBO is still working and will be for a few more years and we do need to be close to our older daughter. Moving her to a different state would complicate her benefits, particularly health insurance.

----

Ron, you are spot on about staying patient. It's stressful for sure, but having the comfort that we do not "have to buy a new place" helps with that. Honestly, the most disconcerting part about this is the requirement to act fast and bold...which is not something normal for use because we generally carefully consider major financial decisions. But we've at least figured out a system so that we know our boundaries. We could also very well decide to just stay here, hire help to manage the landscaping other than mowing, and just have a bunch of empty rooms. :)

[Kev Williams]

We own 2 mobile homes, bought the first in '09, we're renting it to some friends. The second we bought last October. But we almost didn't get it due to other offers, which I really wasn't expecting! (Ironically, both mobile homes are identical, same manufacturer, same model and size. Just minor interior differences.)

When we got the first one I resigned myself to the fact that it was always going to be a depreciating asset. Instead, it's worth about 22% more than we paid for it.

It iS a bit nutso in real estate land right now... ;)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim a family member is trying to buy a place here in the west region and is running into the same situation. Houses are snapped on the day they go on the market.

[Perry Holbrook]

When 2x4 studs are approaching $10, building a new house is also scary, but that's what we have decided to do as we relocate nearer family. Hope to break ground in April and hope prices have begun to drop by then. On the plus side, real estate values were up over 20% here in Asheville last year and continue to rise 1% per month.

[Bryan Lisowski]

A few of our neighbors have sold there houses for more than ask, some with less than ideal layouts. Jim, is it possible to find land in your area and do a Pole Barn shop with an apartment upstairs?

[Jim Becker]

A few of our neighbors have sold there houses for more than ask, some with less than ideal layouts. Jim, is it possible to find land in your area and do a Pole Barn shop with an apartment upstairs?

Offers here always start at higher than list and with it so competitive, we have to use an escalation clause that increase the bid a grand at a time to whatever our upper max is for a given property. As noted, that didn't even work earlier this week...winner bid less than our max, but agreed to no inspections.

Relative to your question...an acre of land here starts at 200K and there's very little available within the radius of D'town that we want/need to be in. You also add the expense of infrastructure including $25-35K for septic and whatever a well costs these days to drill. I don't believe that Professor Dr SWMBO would like a barndominum setup, either, and if that route would possible, it would more likely be a side by side rather than living quarters over. It's a nice idea, however, for the right situation.

We're tossing another offer this weekend on an interesting situation. Cross your crossables. :)

[Mike Henderson]

My wife sold a condominium recently and sold it to a buyer who agreed to no inspections and no appraisal. Their offer was a bit less than one other but it offered a sale with no complications. That is, an inspector ALWAYS finds things wrong with a residence and that offers the buyer a chance to renege on the contract or attempt to re-negotiate. By the time the inspection comes in, the other bidders have moved on so you're left with the choice of negotiating or going through the selling process again.

I suspect other sellers feel the same way. You could buy with the requirement that the seller purchase a good home warranty policy, one you approve of.

Mike

[Around here there are a lot of disclosure requirements when selling a home. If a known problem is "material" and not disclosed it's a reason to void the sale. One requirement I found interesting is that you must disclose if someone died in the home in the past three years (that is, physically in the home).]

[Brian Elfert]

Stuff here goes Pending or Contingent within a day or two of listing. It sure would be nice to be able to find a $200-400K property around here, but that's just not going to happen! Sometimes, there's a property in the mid-300s that needs a ton of work, but those most often get scarfed up in cash deals to flippers. We have seen and bidding on a property at $480K plus escalator, but that sold for $510K which was above our ceiling for that offer based on the property. (would have had to build a building there and the logistics of that would have been "fun" due to the nature of access from the street)


I am pretty much on the edge of the metro area here. For the most part, finding anything under $300,000 is rare. $300k to $400k is about as cheap as it gets. My three acre lot and 1,300 square foot house are worth about $325k.

If someone wants to live closer in then the prices are more like $450,000 and up to live in a decent suburb. I really wish I had waited a couple of years to sell my previous house. I could have netted another $100,000 while prices out where I live now didn't go up that much in the same time.

[Brian Elfert]

I suspect other sellers feel the same way. You could buy with the requirement that the seller purchase a good home warranty policy, one you approve of.


A home warranty isn't going to cover major issues like a collapsing basement, mold in the attic, or other structural issues. I feel like I know about houses than an average homebuyer, but I would still want an inspection. There is a home inspection company here that is very good. I had them inspect my current house and the report was at least 50 pages. I knew the house had major issues, but I wanted to be sure I didn't miss a show stopper issue.

When I sold my previous house the home inspector only found one issue. It was a tiny drip on the sump pump discharge that was easily fixed. Well, he also found the stove didn't work, but the child lock on the stove was on and it was really just fine.

[John Goodin]

Jim, you know this but.... Stay focused. Be patient. This is a financial decision as much as a lifestyle decision.

Real estate is awful here in Austin -- particularly for home buyers in the sub-450K price range. I have inspected one home since the summer that was not multiple offers, sometimes as many as 30, and that one never hit the market. The seller's agent thought he was leaving tons of money on the table for taking just 15K over asking.

Another client listed at 399K and sold for 131K over asking price. From what I have noticed is that many home buyers, particularly first timers, lose a few bids, get stupid, offer crazy money and make up the difference between the appraisal and sales price.

[Clifford McGuire]

We had a similar situation Jim. We have a small farm, and retirement years are approaching. We want to simplify our life, so we want something 'in town'. No more 100 year old farm, well & septic, etc. And we have a daughter with health issues and we need to be close by. We were looking for something with a small apartment over the garage.

Missed out on a lot of properties. Then we got lucky. In October we saw something that checked most of the boxes. While being shown the house, the owner came back. We struck up a conversation with him, and I think that helped. I know there were three other offers and he picked ours. He said the house was being sold "as is". Our inspector found a problem with the radon system that would cost $600 to fix. Nothing else. The owner did pay for it.

Did we overpay somewhat? Yes, but I think we'll get top dollar for our current place. So, it kind of evens out. And prices keep going up. Similar properties are way more than we paid just 5 month ago.

[Jim Becker]

[Around here there are a lot of disclosure requirements when selling a home. If a known problem is "material" and not disclosed it's a reason to void the sale. One requirement I found interesting is that you must disclose if someone died in the home in the past three years (that is, physically in the home).]

Disclosures are pretty much required in the industry. They are available as soon as the property is officially active for sale and we review prior to even doing the fifty cent tour. Not disclosing something important isn't a good idea for sellers for sure. Of course, the only way to catch it is with an inspection. LOL Cash buyers can certainly chose no inspections and no appraisal easily. They "may" be able to get away without inspections if they are financing, but it's unlikely they can do that if they have a mortgage in play. The bottom line...it's a game.

--

We actually chose not to put in an offer on the property we visited yesterday. It was really, really attractive in so many ways, but with honest reflection, it was "too much house" which misses the point of the exercise. But oh, it had a very unusual feature that was perfect for a woodworker...an attached "garage" that you could fit more than six vehicles in that already had a sub-panel and hot and cold running water...no need to build a building.

452244

[Jim Becker]

My three acre lot and 1,300 square foot house are worth about $325k.

I'd buy that in a second, but around here, 3 acres with that size house would still sell for at least $500K. There's one just down the road with 2 acres, 1500 sq ft and a slightly larger than two car detached garage for $599K down from $649K. And that's an "as is" price...

[Jim Becker]

JFrom what I have noticed is that many home buyers, particularly first timers, lose a few bids, get stupid, offer crazy money and make up the difference between the appraisal and sales price.

That's become a popular method here for some folks...an addendum to the offer that indicates the buyer will cover appraisal deficit. That happened on the in-town property we really wanted two weeks ago...

[Rob Luter]

We have the same situation in Northern Indiana. Low inventory and high demand. A friend is looking for a place and at every showing the seller's agent tells them there are already multiple offers and to bring their best and highest immediately. This is on homes that have been for sale less than a week. They're about to hit the back end of a seasonal lease and need to make something happen really soon. I'm glad I'm not in the market

[Ron Citerone]

For someone downsizing, and not in a hurry, the ability to wait for something that really meets your needs is the way to go. Your problem is a good one to have IMO.

[Jim Becker]

For someone downsizing, and not in a hurry, the ability to wait for something that really meets your needs is the way to go. Your problem is a good one to have IMO.

I agree, Ron. We are trying to be very selective but have also determined that when there's one we like that meets most of our parameters, we have to be aggressive and fast. We already know what our offer will be before we walk in the door for the tour so that if we are in agreement, the response can be immediate. We already have an appointment for this coming Thursday for a property that goes live "that day" which nails our location desires and other factors. It's literally around the corner from the first property we offered and lost to someone bidding way above reasonable. This new opportunity would be a "from scratch" shop build, too. Fortunately, it's starting to get into the season that many folks "traditionally" market their homes as projected closing dates are near or after school lets out for the summer. That may or may not help or make it even more of a circus! LOL Of course, if we find something sooner, that means we can have this place on the market sooner and participate in the feeding frenzy....

[Bruce King]

I read an article the other day about all these new homeowners where many are having buyers remorse. They didn’t figure in all the expenses of foregoing inspections, furnishing, repairing etc. Some didn’t get the help from family that they wanted. So some of these will come back on the market. When we sold our 2nd home 3 years ago, I was acting as the listing agent with a flat fee listing. We got a full price offer from a Navy Captain who I didn’t get to meet. I knew at the time it was overpriced and believe it or not I turned it down. He was getting a VA loan and I thought they would not approve it. We would end up losing several weeks of the selling season. What I did was counter with a 5,000 non refundable deposit and said that if you feel confident I want to also. He denied it. I felt bad in a way but my wife overheard a conversation where he said that he really wanted a house in a certain area. He had been out bid 6 times already and this was 2 years before this market. We checked the tax records a few months later and found out that he found a house where he wanted to be. We did him a favor.

[Mike Henderson]

In today's market if you come in with a VA or FHA loan, the seller will probably not accept the offer. The reason is that the home must be inspected by the FHA (for example) and they often find things that they require to be fixed before they will give the loan (could even be something like a new roof). For the seller, that stretches out the closing and adds cost. So they're rather just accept either a cash offer or one with a conventional loan but not contingent on the appraisal (the buyer will make up with their own funds the difference between the selling price and the appraisal).

I sold a house where I had a higher FHA offer but turned it down because of the problems that can occur with an FHA loan. VA and FHA loans are good when it's a buyer's market but not when it's a seller's market.

Mike

[Jim Matthews]

452244
That's not a garage, it's a hangar.

*Less* house is good.

[Brian Elfert]

That's not a garage, it's a hangar.

*Less* house is good.

My brother is building a house with a 30'x40' attached four car garage. Since it is 30 feet deep I think I could pull in my minivan with my 6x10 trailer attached and still close the door.

I am planning to build a 48x60 garage to hold my 45 foot motorhome in the next two years. It has nothing to do with competing with my brother. My garage has been in planning since 2014. I bought my house and lot specifically so I could eventually build this garage. I downsized my house size when I moved.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, the garage on that house was "to die for" give my purposes. The whole place was beautiful. I was just too big for two people and you can't just lop-off one end of the thing. LOL

[Alex Zeller]

Weird times we are living in. Unlike a normal recession this one has lots of companies with tons of orders and not enough workers or raw materials to complete them. At the same time others, like restaurants, are struggling. It's been going on long enough that people just want it to end and are going crazy trying to feel like the end is here. Unless it's needed I would wait. Real estate is like a pendulum. When it swings it'll swing back. Of course we also have a generation who doesn't think twice about paying to have fast food delivered to them vs going and getting it. I'm not sure if they understand the concept of saving.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Remember this generation is the first to to see sub 3% loans in the last 70 years. To think we celebrated when we got ours down to 8.5% almost forty years ago. 3% vs 8.5% would have saved us about 200K over the ten life of the loan. Loan was for fifteen years, but paid off in ten years. I HATE making any kind of monthly payments. We've been in the same place for over forty years. Paid more in property taxes than we paid for property, including house and land. But again in December, we will again have to pay taxes again. Bad part is we did all the construction, with the exception of flooring and brick work. Means I get to pay property taxes on our labor.

[Bruce King]

Weird times we are living in. Unlike a normal recession this one has lots of companies with tons of orders and not enough workers or raw materials to complete them. At the same time others, like restaurants, are struggling. It's been going on long enough that people just want it to end and are going crazy trying to feel like the end is here. Unless it's needed I would wait. Real estate is like a pendulum. When it swings it'll swing back. Of course we also have a generation who doesn't think twice about paying to have fast food delivered to them vs going and getting it. I'm not sure if they understand the concept of saving.

The below 40 crowd does save, many under 30 are making over $100k. They are the reason the stock market refuses to correct. They are dumping millions into the market.

[Anuj Prateek]

Professor Dr. SWMBO and I are "more than casually" looking for our "downsize" property. The two of us do not need such a large home and property going forward as our older daughter is already living "independently" in town (she's a special needs adult, so isn't totally independent) and the younger, who is about to graduate from Penn State, is living at her boyfriend's parents' house more than half the time. So it's just the two of us and three birds most of the time in "this nest".

The combination of low interest rates and very little inventory has created a virtual circus of the process. To-date, we've offered and lost on three properties...bidding generously and with an escalator as well as a larger deposit. We are also pre-approved for financing without selling our current property. Yet...no dice. Today's loss was to an offer that was actually less than our maximum in the escalation clause. Why? The successful bidder eschewed inspections, something we are not willing to do. We toured this house at 15:30 yesterday afternoon and our offer was in the hands of the selling agent four hours later...the only reason it took that long was our agent having one other client appointment on his way back to his office and the paperwork servers were dead slow for some reason. (it's all done electronic these days)

We are very glad we don't have to sell first as it may be a very long time before we "score" on an attractive and appropriate situation that checks most of our boxes. Sheesh...:o

It's was (and probably still is) like this in BC few months back when we bought our house.

We lost a nice house because other party let go of inspection. Our agent suggested to get it done beforehand. It's becomes tight timewise and there is good chance of loosing inspection cost.

House we bought, we saw in morning, got inspection done right after and made offer in night. Apart from escalation, there was no other clause in the offer.

[Mike Henderson]

It's was (and probably still is) like this in BC few months back when we bought our house.

We lost a nice house because other party let go of inspection. Our agent suggested to get it done beforehand. It's becomes tight timewise and there is good chance of loosing inspection cost.

House we bought, we saw in morning, got inspection done right after and made offer in night. Apart from escalation, there was no other clause in the offer.

That's a good idea - have your inspector ready and have the inspection done before making an offer. If you lose the house, you're out the inspection cost but that's not too bad.

Mike

[Ronald Blue]

It isn't that way here. Real estate while selling better isn't a hot item like it is in other areas. Took over 2 years to sell our other home. We didn't technically lose money but sold it for well under appraised value.

[George Bokros]

One requirement I found interesting is that you must disclose if someone died in the home in the past three years (that is, physically in the home).]

Same here in my area of Ohio, maybe state wide.

[Jim Becker]

Pre-inspection is a very nice idea. But a very large percentage of houses are selling in one day or less sometimes. There's zero time to do a pre-inspection so you have to go with your gut on the sellers disclosure statement (which is a legal document) and hope that there are no skeletons in the closet that prevent going to closing. The sellers are the bigger losers if they are not upfront on their disclosures as there are very, very limited circumstances where a deposit will not get refunded to a buyer if inspections reveal significant issues and the buyer doesn't move forward. The seller starts over at that point because other bidders have already moved on. One seller of a property we bid on had her own pre-listing full inspection done and had it included in the available documents for the property. It was pretty comprehensive and would certainly help a cash buyer...which it unfortunately did.

[Bruce King]

Where I worked we were all booked up for 5 to 7 days with inspections. When NC started requiring liability insurance which was only $500/yr about 40 percent of the “inspectors” quit. The insurance that matters the most, E&O, was not required but all the busy inspectors had it. The guy’s that got sued said it was always over things they did report or things we can’t inspect and the client signed an agreement to that effect.

[Roger Feeley]

A real estate agent I know is married to the daughter of the pastor of a very big church. By being plugged into the congregation so closely, he knows who wants to buy and sell. He almost runs his own little marketplace. You might think about hooking up with a large organization of some sort and see if you can grab something before it goes on the market.

[Brian Elfert]

The real estate market is so tight in many areas that I am sure lots of people are trying to get shown houses before they are listed on MLS. A friend of mine sold his house house in an exclusive neighborhood in October 2018 before things really started to boom. He contacted an agent and the agent had a buyer lined up in a day or two without ever formally listing the house.

I wonder if Zillow Zestimates have any basis in reality? Mine shows the value has gone up about 25% in a year and I am not in a hot market. Now, if my house was 30 miles south in south Minneapolis I could list in the morning and have my choice of offers by the next day. I might refinance if the value is anything close to the Zillow Zestimate.

[Jim Becker]

A real estate agent I know is married to the daughter of the pastor of a very big church. By being plugged into the congregation so closely, he knows who wants to buy and sell. He almost runs his own little marketplace. You might think about hooking up with a large organization of some sort and see if you can grab something before it goes on the market.

We're not "large organization" type people but I'm sure that's effective in many areas, especially those that are more rural.


The real estate market is so tight in many areas that I am sure lots of people are trying to get shown houses before they are listed on MLS. A friend of mine sold his house house in an exclusive neighborhood in October 2018 before things really started to boom. He contacted an agent and the agent had a buyer lined up in a day or two without ever formally listing the house.

I wonder if Zillow Zestimates have any basis in reality? Mine shows the value has gone up about 25% in a year and I am not in a hot market. Now, if my house was 30 miles south in south Minneapolis I could list in the morning and have my choice of offers by the next day. I might refinance if the value is anything close to the Zillow Zestimate.

I've found that the Z-Estimates are reasonably reliable, but certainly not always. Occasionally, one is high; but with the way the market is moving, many have actually been low in the last few weeks. The number for our home isn't out of line with what came out of our discussion with our agent for the future plan to put this property on the market once we have a destination nailed down.

I did a bunch of research this morning around recent sales in the immediate area for the property we are (hopefully...snow coming) going to tour tomorrow. (with a backup appointment on Friday if we get snowed out tomorrow) We already have the bones of an aggressive offer ready to "digitally print and sign" if we don't see any issues in-person. While we're prepared to be once again disappointed, this one is a great location for us, has the space to build a shop and has interior square footage below our max. Cabinetry is dated, but, well...that's not really an issue for me as it shouldn't come as any surprise. ;) Cross your crossibles...

[Jim Matthews]

It isn't that way here. Real estate while selling better isn't a hot item like it is in other areas. Took over 2 years to sell our other home. We didn't technically lose money but sold it for well under appraised value.
This is a very important observation.

The housing shortage is in markets where employment is stable. Plenty of decent houses at below market prices, where there's an exodus.

It can't last - once all the money printing stops, and major cities are perceived safe again, prices will stabilize.

(Except in Vancouver or Toronto)

[Rick Potter]

My son has been in escrow near Fort Worth for 8+ weeks, and he was pre-approved. Both parties wanted a quick escrow, and the house is vacant. The loan company keeps adding requirements before funding. The latest one was when they thought OUR family trust was his.

Yesterday, they said it was almost done, but wanted him to sign for a third extension on the escrow. He told them NO, that he would let it die, and that today was the last day he could wire the money into escrow.

Today they magically said to wire the moola, and papers can be signed tomorrow.

He took his material reallocation business with him, just one of many companies leaving California.

[Thomas L Carpenter]

Sometimes wonder if posting a "wanted to buy" ad listing what property type you are looking for and any financial incentive info you would offer etc etc would be beneficial. Don't quite know where you would post it and how it would actually but but it would get you out in front of the whole super fast real-estate biz.

[Jim Becker]

"Circus" is now an understatement....for a property we visited on Friday that we really liked and was in a great location for our needs, we offered $65K over listing, $2500 forgiveness on any inspection issues (none likely...the place was immaculate), waived appraisal concerns and STILL lost to a buyer that bid higher. We went that high because it was clearly listed under value after I did some comparable sales analysis backed up by what our Realtor did, but...wow. This is exactly why I'm glad we don't need to sell first before buying what comes next...

[Bill McNiel]

Understand that the Real Estate buying market is being driven by the, almost record, low interest rates. That is the current primary driver without a doubt. Note:don't ever forgo an inspection!

[Jim Matthews]

Just checked Zillow for what it estimates my home value. According to their algorithm, my home has appreciated in value 12% in the past year when I did nothing but cut the grass.

It's another housing bubble.

[Jim Becker]

Understand that the Real Estate buying market is being driven by the, almost record, low interest rates. That is the current primary driver without a doubt. Note:don't ever forgo an inspection!
Yes, very true, along with some other factors, depending on one's area. And yes, we would never forgo an inspection. For this one, we did throw the bone that we would "forgive" up to $2500 in repairs identified by an inspection, but it was extremely unlikely there would be any for that particular property. I have never been in such an immaculately kept home, including several with live-in staff, than this one. You could eat off the basement floor...and all of the mechanicals were recent vintage and regularly serviced. The siding was recently replaced (storm damage) and the landscaping was also "beautifully simple". Yes, some things are sometimes hidden...hence, the inspection...but our risk was low on that one for sure. But it's "water over the dam"...and apparently wasn't meant to be.

[John K Jordan]

I haven't been keeping up with the market. Maybe it's time to sell our spare riverfront lot.

[Jim Becker]

I haven't been keeping up with the market. Maybe it's time to sell our spare riverfront lot.

You would do well to at least find out what it's potentially worth in this market because there may indeed be a "bubble" to take advantage of now.

[John K Jordan]

You would do well to at least find out what it's potentially worth in this market because there may indeed be a "bubble" to take advantage of now.

The last appraisal we got was at least three or four years ago. I thought that appraisal was way more than the lot was worth and couldn't imagine anyone paying that much. It's less than 2 acres.

There's no house on it but someone built a high-end house on a similar lot adjacent to it, perhaps it would sell.

[Jim Becker]

John, two acres here, undeveloped (no improvements), sells for $300K or more, depending on location. One acre lots...the few that exist anymore...are going for $200K. If I could get a 1 acre lot for say, $100K right now, I'd jump on it and do the improvements necessary to put a home and shop on it. But that's just not realistic anymore.

[John K Jordan]

John, two acres here, undeveloped (no improvements), sells for $300K or more, depending on location....

Zounds. For about 1/2 that much a guy bought 3 acres next to me, 2 wooded, with a house, a small outbuilding, and a concrete block garage big enough to park two big RVs and then some.

JKJ

[eugene thomas]

well jim. when ya list your ovre size house. the money should rool in......

[Brian Elfert]

A few years ago a housing developer bought a closed library and an adjacent building to split into seven building lots. The lots are narrow and probably cost the developer at least $500,000 per lot by the time they were buildable. The houses are large and I think they listed for $1 million or so. I can't believe a developer thought it was worth spending $500,000 each on lots in a city where a lot of houses are worth less than the cost of each lot.

[Jim Becker]

well jim. when ya list your ovre size house. the money should rool in......

We can only hope... ;)

That said, our house isn't exactly oversized. It's just under-utilized since our older daughter has an apartment in town and the younger will soon be leaving the nest. For four people it's great. For two, it's more than we "need". We love our nearly four acres, too...but not all the weeding and upkeep beyond mowing grassy areas. So if and when we find something appropriate and actually have a winning offer, we'll do next steps. In the meantime...life is good.

One good thing that's coming out of this is the "downsizing of the stuff". 22 years in this house means there's a lot of stuff. The place is actually looking better just because of simplification.

[Bruce King]

Sometimes wonder if posting a "wanted to buy" ad listing what property type you are looking for and any financial incentive info you would offer etc etc would be beneficial. Don't quite know where you would post it and how it would actually but but it would get you out in front of the whole super fast real-estate biz.

Some areas have the NextDoor app being used. Down here people are always posting for a house that a relative or friend wants. The problem is that you have to know someone in that area to post what your looking for. Another one is the Citydata forum, its nationwide. Just pick the town and post when you are moving there and what type house you want. You might get lots of private messages from realtors but maybe a seller to. Many people are doing the flat fee listing and some are making the mistake of listing on FSBO but they will reply also. No offense to realtors but many sellers are fully capable of handling a sale. Buyers should get a realtor but don’t ever negotiate a price then shove a realtor into the face of the seller because they have just cut a deal with you and won’t like an additional 3 percent added on.

[Jeff Bartley]

Jim,
I’m sure you know this already but don’t overlook the price of a shop build in the metrics of your decision. Material costs are insane right now. Advantech ply is $50/sheet now, a 2x4 from Lowe’s is almost $6/ea and I wouldn’t even consider them for a small project. Premium 2x4’s are $6-7. I wanted to do a project here this year but decided to wait.

[Jim Becker]

Jim,
I’m sure you know this already but don’t overlook the price of a shop build in the metrics of your decision. Material costs are insane right now. Advantech ply is $50/sheet now, a 2x4 from Lowe’s is almost $6/ea and I wouldn’t even consider them for a small project. Premium 2x4’s are $6-7. I wanted to do a project here this year but decided to wait.
Yes, that's already been calculated, but it's a good point to be included in the discussion. But also don't assume it will be a wooden building ;)

[anne watson]

My free advise, buy a fixer uper with room for a Used but decent Motorhome or trailer. Spend the time/money to bring utilities namely sewer to it. Live like you did before , ccget the fixerupper up to your
desire. Have a metal building built making sure to get twice the electric and so on as you would like in your shop. Lot easier to get it done in the beginning.

Then store all the stuff you think you can't do without in the shop/store room

Now you have a decent place to spend time in. Take your time do the fixerupper
like you want. Move all the stuff that you can't live without, into your HOME.

Rearrange shop stuff to your liking.

Finially DO NOT SELL the MH/trailer,,Your kids/visitors can visit you and not be right in your face.

I forgot to put more details about the Trailer/MH, big ones are really cheap these days and since you are not going anywhere, don't wory about mileage costs or new tires.
That is my free advice
Anne

[Jim Becker]

Were things like that available around here, I'd consider it Anne. But alas, such properties are few and far between. The one I know that is available is actually quite close to our current property. 3br 2b rancher with a large detached garage on 2 acres. Very much a "fixer upper" as it's being sold as-is and aside from a lot of normal repairs and renovations, it will need a new septic system. . There are no utilities available other than natural gas, but that's not connected from the roadway. Oil heat. Window AC. It's $595K, down from $649k...

And honestly, we are not and never have been motorhome/travel trailer type people. And even junkers are top dollar right now because of the pandemic because so many folks are using them for travel rather than hotels. We can live here for whatever time is necessary to get something done within reason.

We are not in a hurry and we do not have to move. We'd rather have empty rooms than buy something that we will not enjoy. At some point, all those no-s will become a yes. It's a game.

[eugene thomas]

ya know. your in a good situation. now use who had to sell before we could buy with the misses looking for job and yata yats.. wish ya luck in your search but....

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that's a blessing, Eugene, for sure. I would hate to have to sell first in this market because it could be a very long time before we had a new property in-hand and the rental market is hosed here, too. That motorhome thing that Anne mentioned might have to happen. Or a tent. LOL

[Dave Zellers]

Wow- what an eye opener this thread is. I'm now seeing similar threads out there in the Inter Web.

We need to build more supply but right now material costs are crazy high. These things do tend to work themselves out over time but the need is NOW.

If we can get everybody back to work soon, and keep interest rates low, there is hope. But realistically housing prices probably won't fall much, but stabilize.

Which would be a good thing. Stable housing prices can lead to a stable economy.

[Dave Bunge]

The New York Times published an article today titled: Where Have All the Houses Gone? The inventory of homes for sale is startlingly low. The pandemic is part of the reason, but it’s not the whole story.

You can get their version of the rest of the story here: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/upshot/where-have-all-the-houses-gone.html?

[anne watson]

I happen to live in the southwest where it doesn't snow, and I can just hear wives saying "I am not putting up with this snow, cold, no elec and so on.

We are getting out of here. Thus, the housing market is good. We get letter, calls and emails all the time wanting to buy BUT where would we go and have space, good neighbors a real septic system, all the water we use in the house ends up watering our vegatation.

The only thing we don't have is room for guests, which is why I mentioned it.

Who ever knew when we had the house built that ordinary folks would have ha MH or trailer esp. one with a bathroom and shower built right in.

Heck I though I was wealthy just having a pickup with a covered bed to sleep in if it rained.
Anyhow, different world world out there , so try to enjoy it.

[Jim Becker]

Anne, it's very much a fact that geography plays a roll in the real estate game. If we were free to move, I believe we could come up with some very interesting opportunities. But Professor Dr. SWMBO is a few years from retiring from teaching yet and our older daughter still needs support from us, even though she lives in an apartment in town. (special needs adult) So we have to "go with the flow" around our local marketplace. It's weird and wacky, for sure. I honestly thought this was going to be a slow weekend, but three possibilities popped up on the MLS today and we have appointments for two of them so far.

[Jim Matthews]

Anne, it's very much a fact that geography plays a roll in the real estate game.

So we have to "go with the flow" around our local marketplace. It's weird and wacky, for sure. I honestly thought this was going to be a slow weekend, but three possibilities popped up on the MLS today and we have appointments for two of them so far.

Good luck.

I'm about 6 years behind you, taking real interest in how you balance competing demands.

I just started inquiries where my SWMBO would like.
New Yorkers have been showing up to listing carrying suitcases of cash, to hear the realtor tell it.

Madness

[Bill Dufour]

Just saw on TV last night that Zillow will buy your house for their estimated price in 5-6 select cities. They do send out a inspector to verify condition before paying. They charge 6%. I have no idea if that is good or bad%. They % charged seems to have no relation to home cost.

Bil lD

[Brian Elfert]

Just saw on TV last night that Zillow will buy your house for their estimated price in 5-6 select cities. They do send out a inspector to verify condition before paying. They charge 6%. I have no idea if that is good or bad%. They % charged seems to have no relation to home cost.


Where did you see that the fee is just 6%? I can't seem to find anything that lists the fee, but some have gotten an offer and reported the fee is much higher than 6%. I don't see how they would even cover the realtor's fees at 6%. I tried to see what Zillow would offer for my house, but even though I am in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul metro area, but my house doesn't qualify. I think part of the issue is comps are few and far between out where I live.

I love the people complaining they can sell their house for say $35,000 more by not using Zillow Offers. None of these "cash for houses" companies are going to offer full market value with no fees or they would lose money. What they offer is convenience. You sell them your house and you have to do nothing but sign some paperwork and move whatever you want to keep out of the house. You can leave behind anything you don't want and you have to do no cosmetic repairs or any other repairs.

My brother has three young kids. He sold his house last summer. His wife and kids went to live with the in-laws during the sale process. They didn't want to be trying to keeping a house ready for showing with three young kids. It took about a month to sell because they lived on the far fringe of the metro area.

[Brian Elfert]

I think the Zillow Zestimate on my house is way high. They are showing $392k with a 3.2% increase in just the past month. I had the house appraised for a refinance in March 2020. It only appraised for $300k then. I am considering refinancing for cash out to build a new garage/shop, but I don't really want to go through the refinance process if my house isn't worth a fair bit over $300,000.

[Jim Becker]

Just saw on TV last night that Zillow will buy your house for their estimated price in 5-6 select cities. They do send out a inspector to verify condition before paying. They charge 6%. I have no idea if that is good or bad%. They % charged seems to have no relation to home cost.

Bil lD

Yes, they are doing that. There is the normal 6% for brokers plus a 2.4% service fee plus any necessary repairs determined by their comprehensive inspection. But it can be a very good deal so you can avoid the hassle of showings, etc., and close as quickly as you want.. If they were in my market, I'd take that in a heartbeat and my realtor would be covered...which is nice because he's a friend after all these years.
----

Brian, ZEstimate is a pretty reliable thing at this point and is rarely far off from a selling price. If anything, it's been low recently on quite a few places we've looked at. And prices have gained substantially. The offer we made early in the week was for $65K over listing on a property that was clearly undervalued after a comparable sales analysis...and we lost to someone who offered more. We literally just placed another offer a few minutes ago on another property for $56K over listing. It was listed for something more realistic than the other one, but this is the only way to win in the current market.

Of course, this can change at any time, so it's a good idea not to over stretch on any equity taking. That's just prudent financial practice.

[Dave Seng]

Good luck with your offer Jim!

[Jim Becker]

Thanks. Cross your crossables. :)

[Brian Elfert]

Brian, ZEstimate is a pretty reliable thing at this point and is rarely far off from a selling price. If anything, it's been low recently on quite a few places we've looked at. And prices have gained substantially. The offer we made early in the week was for $65K over listing on a property that was clearly undervalued after a comparable sales

The reason I think Zestimates, at least for my property, are not accurate is because last February my property had a Zestimate of $325,000. The appraisal for my refinance at the end of March 2020 was $300,000. The current Zestimate for my property is $392,000 which would be over a 30% increase in less than one year from the $300,000 appraised value.

[Jim Becker]

Oh, I understand that, Brian. It can seem weird for sure and there are certainly some properties that have a slight miss on this. But "in general", they have been refining things from the massive amount of data they have available to them and seem to be confident enough that in some markets, they will buy the property for the ZEstimate outright. Our current property's ZEstimate spiked up a bit awhile ago, but settled back to within the range that our RE agent felt was valid. When we do list, it will be at the high end of the range...maybe $20-30K above the current ZEstimate and we'll adjust accordingly based on activity. But to the point of this thread...the RE market is really whacky right now. You could very well sell your place for more than the $392K ZEstimate if your local market is running hot and it has desirable features. There are a lot of folks who want to buy a first home, "move up" from their first home or like us, "downsize" but stay nice. That's three different groups vying for the same opportunity. An acquaintance of our RE agent was speaking to him the other day and she was actually getting "sight unseen" offers on some properties she has listed...no visit, no inspections, just straight offers. Crazy it is!

[Dave Seng]

Those "sight unseen" offers can get weird - one of my friends just had a home here in Montana listed in the mid $600's - first day on the market he got a full price offer from a family in Southern California. BUT...when they came up here - they backed out of the deal before even seeing the house. The reason given - "Montana is too cold for us." And that was on a weekend when the temps were only in the upper 20's!

[Curt Harms]

An acquaintance of our RE agent was speaking to him the other day and she was actually getting "sight unseen" offers on some properties she has listed...no visit, no inspections, just straight offers. Crazy it is!

The last "crazy" Real Estate market I remember is 2008. I also remember what happened after. I'm hoping for no repeat.

[Jim Becker]

The last "crazy" Real Estate market I remember is 2008. I also remember what happened after. I'm hoping for no repeat.
Yes, we did our addition about that time simply because the market wasn't conducive to moving rather than adding on and we need more space (and bathrooms) with our two girls in the family.
-------

Dave, I bet the contract had wording inserted that allowed them to backout without penalty for some reason that could be cited. Sellers and more importantly, their agents/attorneys (whichever is being used in a given area), have to read the offers carefully since even normally, there are very limited ways to retain a deposit as a seller.

[Brian Elfert]

The last "crazy" Real Estate market I remember is 2008. I also remember what happened after. I'm hoping for no repeat.

A large part of 2008 was allowing anyone with a pulse to take out a mortgage. There were a lot of so called "liar" loans where no documentation of income was required. A lot of people were becoming homeowners who didn't have the resources to buy a house. Some of the borrowers didn't have the financial resources to make the payments from day one. I thought it was crazy that people who could pay their mortgage payments walked away from houses simply because they fell by $100,000 in value or whatever. A house is a place to live, not an investment. You still have to live somewhere.

Housing values will eventually level off or fall a bit, but I doubt we will have the mass foreclosures like 2008.

[Malcolm McLeod]

A large part of 2008 was allowing anyone with a pulse to take out a mortgage. There were a lot of so called "liar" loans where no documentation of income was required. A lot of people were becoming homeowners who didn't have the resources to buy a house. Some of the borrowers didn't have the financial resources to make the payments from day one. I thought it was crazy that people who could pay their mortgage payments walked away from houses simply because they fell by $100,000 in value or whatever. A house is a place to live, not an investment. You still have to live somewhere.

Housing values will eventually level off or fall a bit, but I doubt we will have the mass foreclosures like 2008.

A particular entity (taboo'd) maybe fell in love with the concept of universal home ownership? This possibly tips the normal supply/demand equation on it's ear, and we get a 2008?

Surely, no such entity would allow this to happen again? Or even allow such manipulation of other positively necessaries? Surely, we're better educated now? Surely.

[Rick Potter]

Well, the circus is finally over for my son in Texas. After over 9 weeks in escrow, his loan was finally approved. This with loan pre-approval going in, plus buyer and seller both wanting quick escrow.

Then the pipes froze and burst. That added a few more days to fix.

He moved in Friday.

He would probably be still waiting if he hadn't refused to extend the escrow for the third time, and again when the loan company tried to up the cash down payment they had agreed to at the beginning.

[Jim Matthews]

Housing values will eventually level off or fall a bit, but I doubt we will have the mass foreclosures like 2008.

This situation is remarkably different.

There are fewer houses than buyers, in places people want to live. It's a supply problem.
Housing starts were down during the first half of 2020 due to Covid restrictions.

There is a tremendous amount of money arising from stock market gains rather than easy underwriting so the demand isn't artificially boosted, or backed by invented money.

I'm hearing anecdotes of buyers from NYC showing up to listing in the Hudson River Valley in minivans full of clothes and suitcases full of cash.

[Jim Becker]

Woo-Hoo! We finally scored!!! Great home...actually originally custom built and quality that we are used to in a smaller 1800 sq ft package on a half acre. Near our daughter’s apartment and her work so it eases our transportation situation. But darn...I have to build a shop from the ground up. What a sad thing :D

[James Cheever]

Great news, Jim!!!

I know you'll have so much fun planning your new shop.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Mr C! It will be an adventure.

[Steve Wurster]

Woo-Hoo! We finally scored!!! Great home...actually originally custom built and quality that we are used to in a smaller 1800 sq ft package on a half acre. Near our daughter’s apartment and her work so it eases our transportation situation. But darn...I have to build a shop from the ground up. What a sad thing :D

I've been occasionally checking this thread and was happy to see this. Congrats, Jim. Where about is this place?

[Zachary Hoyt]

Congratulations, that's wonderful news. I hope the new shop build will be fun, and that everything will go smoothly.

[Bruce King]

Congratulations Jim!
Word of advice, keep the shop smaller than the house to prevent marital poaching upon sacred ground.

[Dave Zellers]

Woo-Hoo! We finally scored!!! But darn...I have to build a shop from the ground up. What a sad thing :D

Feeling your pain, err, joy. So sorry to learn that you have to (get to) build a new shop. The entire Sawmill Creek community feels your joy. :D

Hopefully you feel the same and I haven't crossed a line. :)

Congrats!

[Dave Zellers]

Now slap a new coat of paint on the old place and tack another 100K on to the asking price.

But reject any and all offers less than 50K over that!

[Malcolm McLeod]

Woo-Hoo! We finally scored!!! Great home...actually originally custom built and quality that we are used to in a smaller 1800 sq ft package on a half acre. Near our daughter’s apartment and her work so it eases our transportation situation. But darn...I have to build a shop from the ground up. What a sad thing :D

Congratulations. SMC search fails, but bookmark the VERY SAD 'Hall of the Mountain King' shop build thread. ...a place to start maybe? Sadly, of course.;)

[Jim Becker]

I've been occasionally checking this thread and was happy to see this. Congrats, Jim. Where about is this place?

D'town not far from the hospital and DelVal. I'll message you more privately.

[Bryan Lisowski]

Congrats Jim!

[Bob Falk]

The last two houses we participated in buying (our current one and our son's) we skipped the formal inspections and purchased "as-is" with no contingencies. In a tight market it seems to convey a huge advantage, I guess enough sellers have heard about or already been burned by the buyers from you-know-where who come up with long lists of absurd demands and requests for price reductions after the initial handshake.

Having rebuilt a couple houses and having read and studied for a number of years (at the level of reading Fine Homebuilding and Journal of Light Construction) for years, plus some accumulated common sense, I find that I can do at least as well, and often better at evaluating a house than most of the certified "inspectors" that people are hiring. (There are really great inspectors out there, and it's worth finding one; too many though just go through their checklist and don't really think about the building) Even if you don't have confidence in your own ability, there's nothing to prevent you from bringing a pro with you when you go to do the walk-through of the house prior to offer. Yes, you'll pay a bit for ones that don't work out, but it can make you a more competitive bidder. I suppose it helps that I've always been looking for houses in need of sweat equity, not a turnkey perfect property. I would never ask the departing owner to do any repairs; that's a virtual guarantee of a "lowest bidder" quality job. Instead I adjust what I'm willing to pay based on the conditions I find.

I also simply assume that common problems will exist-- lead paint in an older house, unless there's evidence or documentation of mitigation; radon, depending on your local soil conditions; termites somewhere, you just need to find them and how extensive they are. Most houses need upgrades in air sealing and insulation. Fortunately problems with plumbing, electrical, wet basements, leaky bathroom fixtures that have resulting rot, structural issues, and roof water problems are typically self-evident, so relatively easy to account for. In MA you need to have a certified working septic to sell a house, so that's a big item off the list.


I did exactly this, when I bought our current home. The neighborhood we bought in has always been a sellers market and everything gets snapped up quick. In spite of the fact that I had remodeled 2 houses, I hired an inspector (he found nothing I hadn't caught, but it was a confidence builder) and made a no contingency offer (except financing) which helped seal the sale. We looked for 2 years before finding this house, which fortunately had not yet been listed (I beat the bushes and wrote a lot of letters to owners of houses I liked). However, this house was built in the 1920's and needed lots of TLC. I have replaced all the electrical, plumbing, heating system, windows, roofing, gutters, insulated, built a new addition with attached shop, yada, yada, yada. I dread the day we decide to downsize as I have the house in tip-top shape and am actually finding some time to do woodworking instead of remodeling.

[Jim Becker]

Now slap a new coat of paint on the old place and tack another 100K on to the asking price.

But reject any and all offers less than 50K over that!

ROFLOL! Fortunately, there is only a little bit of paint work to do in the 250 year old portion of the house and some minor touch ups here and there. There are only three things that need professional assistance; one involves ladder work I'm not interested in doing, one is to fix a minor issue with the sprinkler system that I ain't touchin' and the other is one outdoor faucet that has an issue that I have not been successful in fixing. Anything else is mostly little stuff and deep cleaning. And packing. I have to handle all of this because Professor Dr. SWMBO has a challenging teaching term and has to stay focused on that.


Congratulations. SMC search fails, but bookmark the VERY SAD 'Hall of the Mountain King' shop build thread. ...a place to start maybe? Sadly, of course.;)

I don't think that my shop project will be quite so picturesque as the 'Hall of the Mountain King" nor quite as expansive. But it will be fun to do it from the ground up, nonetheless. :)

------

Bob, we didn't skip inspections, but threw a bone of a "$2500 deductible" for anything inspections reveal. I don't think there will be much of anything with this place based on what I saw. But yes, inspection waiver is what lost us the first offer we placed on a property, despite our offer price being higher than the entity that won it. Very common right now.

[Jim Matthews]

There are only three things that need professional assistance; one involves ladder work I'm not interested in doing, one is to fix a minor issue with the sprinkler system that I ain't touchin' and the other is one outdoor faucet that has an issue that I have not been successful in fixing.


Congratulations! Good luck with the sale.

[Rick Potter]

Congrats Jim.

Once again perseverance pays off, and you will also be selling at a good time of the year, when the most people are looking.

Looking forward to seeing what the new shop will look like. Let me offer an early suggestion. Think of having a built in spot for a chain hoist, or HF winch to handle the occasional heavy item.

[glenn bradley]

But darn...I have to build a shop from the ground up. What a sad thing :D

Not sure how slow molasses runs in Bucks County but, 6 weeks with the city permits became 9 months out here . . . and its warm !?! Congrats on the new shop build and . . . start NOW!!!

[Jim Becker]

Glenn, I'll have all the research done well before we move including preliminary conversations with the Borough Zoning/Building folks so that when it's time to apply for the permit, there will hopefully be a smoother "dance". But yea..."stuff happens". LOL In the meantime, the property does have a two car garage that I can use "creatively" with my CNC, Festool stuff, hand tools and at least one of my benches. I guess I need to hone my skills at sharpening, pardon the expression. :D May have to spend some time with Mr Holcomb...

[Robert D Evans]

We are still feeling the effects of the 2008 housing crash. Prior to 2008, everybody and his brother were getting loans and building spec houses. The bigger the house, the more profit. Loans were passed out to builders and buyers with little or no qualifying. When the market crashed, lots of builders just walked away from partially finished houses. People realized that the value of their fully mortgaged house lost 40% in value in just a few months. The expectation that houses always appreciated turned out to not be the case. Lots of people just walked away from a mortgage they couldn't afford. Banks had so many delinquent loans, they didn't have the resources to foreclose. New home construction was very slow to nonexistent for the next 10 years. This has created a shortage of housing. With a shortage, the prices get driven up. Sometimes to crazy, unsustainable levels.

Now is a good time to sell but not a good time to buy in the same crazy market. We are also in the same situation. Both of our kids are grown and have their own homes. I'm heating and cooling 3 empty bedrooms. Downsizing is something we have considered but it's a lot of hassle. Maybe we'll think about it some more next year.

[eugene thomas]

so what we all care about. how big can the shop be?

[Jim Becker]

so what we all care about. how big can the shop be?

ROFLOL!

I will probably be shooting for 20x30 or 24x30, give or take. Some of that comes down to zoning and some to money and appearance. I'd certainly like larger, but this at least preserves about the same square footage as I have now for actual shop space; storage is what suffers a little since there will be no upstairs like presently, but if things go well and I can do a slightly taller wall, that will allow for vertical storage which is more efficient.

[Lisa Starr]

Jim,

I totally get the appearance concerns. We actually would have preferred one larger building with two separate spaces for our workshops, but instead built 2 smaller buildings. That allowed the outbuildings to be more proportionate to our home, which is quite small.

Good luck with this transition. I look forward to following your build once you're ready to start the process.

Lisa

[John K Jordan]

so what we all care about. how big can the shop be?

Curious. Do you mean how big can/should a typical shop be or specifically how big Jim's shop can/should be?

[Robert D Evans]

I'd like to find an Amish farm. Small, well built house with a GIANT barn.

[eugene thomas]

well. i ment how big can be for zoning. usually is what determs the size. now if was out in country with no zoning... have amish neibor that built somethinh like 60 by 130 for his shop. hes 22 so will have plenty of time to fill up.

[John Serna]

Real estate has another ten year run at least. Millenials just began buying about 2 years ago. Gen Z is right there almost ready to buy (some are). Rates won't rise b/c it will crash the entire economy. I'd say try to setup an exchange where you bid and buy contingent upon yours selling.

[Alex Zeller]

Real estate has changed thanks to the virus. With work from home now being a real option for millions they are realizing that city life isn't all it's cracked up to be. They can now move without looking for a new job (as long as they have good internet). The virus has shown that large cities quickly become a hot spot where one has a very hard time avoiding contact with lots of people just to get the basic stuff needed to survive. The markets are reflecting this as people search the internet for a new home. I think in 10 years the suburbs and rural areas of this country are going to look vastly different than they do today.

[Jim Fox]

Had a buddy here looking for property in the UP. Found a piece, drove up there (7 hr drive) to look at it. Didn't even dicker, offered them full price and a couple hours later the seller called saying they had 2 other interested parties and wondering if they'd want to submit a higher bid. Around here they sell faster than the yard sign can be put up.

[Mike Henderson]

Real estate has another ten year run at least. Millennials just began buying about 2 years ago. Gen Z is right there almost ready to buy (some are). Rates won't rise b/c it will crash the entire economy. I'd say try to setup an exchange where you bid and buy contingent upon yours selling.

The problem is that income is not rising that rapidly. In many situations today, both spouses have to have jobs to afford a house. Housing prices may get limited by affordability. There will be people who make the big bucks and can afford any house, but whether there's enough of them to support rapid price increases is a question.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Real estate has changed thanks to the virus. With work from home now being a real option for millions they are realizing that city life isn't all it's cracked up to be. They can now move without looking for a new job (as long as they have good internet). The virus has shown that large cities quickly become a hot spot where one has a very hard time avoiding contact with lots of people just to get the basic stuff needed to survive. The markets are reflecting this as people search the internet for a new home. I think in 10 years the suburbs and rural areas of this country are going to look vastly different than they do today.

There's a downside to remote work. Once work can be done from anywhere, companies will not be limited to hiring (or more likely "contracting") with American workers. There are a lot of well educated people across the world, who also speak English, and will be available to do the work.

Towards the end of my career, a lot of engineering design work got contracted out to India and China. An Indian engineer who made $25,000 a year was considered highly paid.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I'm heating and cooling 3 empty bedrooms. Downsizing is something we have considered but it's a lot of hassle. Maybe we'll think about it some more next year.

Look into "zoning" your house (if you have a forced air system). We did that to our house a few years ago. Set up three zones and only heat or cool the part we need at the time. Secondary advantage is that you can set the temperature to different levels in each zone. If my wife is working in one part of the house and wants it warmer (or cooler) we don't have to do the whole house that way.

You can zone with a single source - you don't need multiple air conditioners (for example). They just install dampers that control and direct the air to the part of the house that needs it.

Mike

[John Serna]

The problem is that income is not rising that rapidly. In many situations today, both spouses have to have jobs to afford a house. Housing prices may get limited by affordability. There will be people who make the big bucks and can afford any house, but whether there's enough of them to support rapid price increases is a question.

Mike

What I've noticed is they're taking in roommates and other hacks like this to afford the home, and that's making up for the income issues.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Real estate has another ten year run at least.


That might be true for residential real estate, but locally, commercial real estate looks in bad shape - lots of vacant buildings. Of course, I don't understand how commercial real estate works. Even in boom times, there are buildings and lots that stay vacant for years. How do companies afford to pay property taxes on non-income producing properties? Do they get a break on the taxes?

[Curt Harms]

There's a downside to remote work. Once work can be done from anywhere, companies will not be limited to hiring (or more likely "contracting") with American workers. There are a lot of well educated people across the world, who also speak English, and will be available to do the work.

Towards the end of my career, a lot of engineering design work got contracted out to India and China. An Indian engineer who made $25,000 a year was considered highly paid.

Mike

The company I work for has about 3000 employees. 2400 of them are offshore. That's one benefit of working on "real" things. Somebody in the Far East is not going to replace your water heater or figure out why that light won't come on, at least not anytime soon.

[Derek Cohen]

Congrats Jim!

This thread is interesting as it mimics what is happening in Australia to a large degree. After 5 years of falling house prices, and a poor economy, suddenly it is a seller's market, prices are going up, interest rates are rock bottom, and we are living in boom times here in Western Australia. The house over the road just sold for double its cost 4 years ago.

Housing in Australia is amongst the most expensive in the Western world, easily 2-3 times as much as the equivalent in the USA. The average house in our area ranges from $800K to $3 million. It varies across Oz, with Sydney and Melbourne about 50% more expensive than Perth and Brisbane. Perth was relatively cheap when we moved here from Sydney all those years ago. We have been on our current property for 31 years, on a 1/4 acre in a good suburb situated 2 minutes stroll from the Canning River. It's a prize area for great schools, and so is in demand. In spite of this, property has been dead for several years, a result of a severe economic downturn.

16 or so years ago, we added a studio over the garage to use as professional rooms for my private practice (in clinical psychology). This was expensive, but the desire to move from an office in the city centre to a home office in the suburbs was so emotionally attractive. A few years ago, thinking ahead to retirement and downsizing, I began to list the items that future buyers would not want that we have: large garden and lawn, pool, and an office at home. Five years ago the market was anti all these, with compact properties and compact dwellings. Pools were being filled in, gardens were sold off for housing development ... I could see my investment struggling to find a buyer.

Five years ago, with an eye on retirement, we also purchased another, smaller house around the corner from where we live, and 50 metres from the river front. My wife does not want to be too far from her friends. And I did not want to be too far from the river, along which it is so wonderful to walk or jog ...

https://i.postimg.cc/1tfNjGZB/maxresdefault.jpg

Those are dolphins frolicking in the water :) This runs for miles ...

My enduring concern was that the value of our current home was continuing to drop, and there would be no buyers when we were ready to sell up.

The pandemic has changed everything. You cannot buy a house now for love or easy money. I could now get what I was hoping for, and the market is still rising. So many are again seeking homes with gardens and pools, and now everyone wants to work from home. I should be saying that I planned it this way, but I know I am just at the right place at the right time. May it continue until I am ready to retire ...

I do believe that the times have changed. Covid forced many into isolation in apartments, and many families are now seeking an escape route in case this happens again. We all discovered that it is possible to work from home, but not everyone was set up to do this. For many businesses, it is profitable to have smaller offices and employees at home. Commuting stress and expenses can be a thing of the past for those fortunate to find a piece of suburbia.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bruce King]

I posted a joke previously about making your shop large and your wife will use part of it, like for storage. The biggest reason not to have a huge shop when you get older is the difficulty of moving across it and all the extra time it takes to walk from machine to machine. You never think about it until it happens.

[Warren Lake]

thats why it should be big., My neighbour is 90 and she walks like 70 her lot is 300 feet wide and 150 deep, she maintains the whole thing herself. She is better shape at 90 then the old guy was at 80 because he wound down, kids cut the lawn and and. She was shovels snow whatever. Have to keep moving as we are turning to dust.

[Jim Becker]

I'm in no danger of Professor Dr. SWMBO wanting to take over any shop space...she has her honeybees...and hasn't usurped a single square foot in the last 22 years in my current shop. :) We don't really store much stuff in real life and there's even less now than there was a few weeks ago. I'm all for more shop space than less shop space, within reason, of course. The limit for a new shop is honestly dictated by both money and local jurisdiction building coverage/impermeable coverage ratios. (20%/25%) as well as setbacks and the desire to not remove certain trees. I like space for workflow and space for flexibility...you'll see "open" space in the shop once it becomes reality for that reason. Assuming things work out, the building will be about 24x38, give or take, with 8 feet of the length partitioned off to house the mower and garden implements (replaces a decrepit 10x16 shed) and the rest for a sound reduced room for the compressor and cyclone like I have now. My desire is for a 10' wall height to make up for the fact I'll not have an upstairs for storage. Containing lumber, etc., vertically takes care of that and a "loft" over the mower "room" also contributes.

[Jack Frederick]

My daughter is a realtor here in the foothills. Seems to be vast qtys of City money driving the market. Very little inventory. Last year she had a buyer for an $800K property that had been on the market for 82 days with not a single offer. Her buyer made and offer and on the very same day there were 8 other qualified offers. How does that happen? It sold for $1.25M.

[John K Jordan]

My daughter is a realtor here in the foothills. Seems to be vast qtys of City money driving the market. Very little inventory. Last year she had a buyer for an $800K property that had been on the market for 82 days with not a single offer. Her buyer made and offer and on the very same day there were 8 other qualified offers. How does that happen? It sold for $1.25M.

Zounds, is everyone in CA rich compared to us po country folk in TN? Or in debt?

That kind of money could buy two or three properties around here similar to ours: over 25 acres, fields and forest, timberframe house, barn and other outbuildings. Way off the road with plenty of privacy but still less than 10 minutes from grocery, banks, fuel, drugstore, hardware, auto parts, vets, farm store, and donut shop. Central to the gulf coast, the east coast, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Asheville, mountains, lakes, culture, and high tech. No chance of falling into the ocean. Power never goes out, forest fires are rare and tiny, taxes are low. And an embarrassing abundance of hardwood grows on trees here.

454399

On the other hand, maybe we should keep it a secret.

[Jim Becker]

THings are hopping in RE, John... In some respects, I wish we were free to relocate to a so-called "less expensive" area, but we aren't.

[Brian Elfert]

My daughter is a realtor here in the foothills. Seems to be vast qtys of City money driving the market. Very little inventory. Last year she had a buyer for an $800K property that had been on the market for 82 days with not a single offer. Her buyer made and offer and on the very same day there were 8 other qualified offers. How does that happen? It sold for $1.25M.

I don’t know all the rules real estate agents have to follow, but is it possible the selling agent contacted other potential buyers or their agents to say there has been an offer and to put in an offer if still interested?

[Brian Elfert]

The Star Tribune newspaper has a story in today's paper about how fast houses in some areas are selling. There is a picture with the story showing at least 20 people in line to see a house for sale. It wasn't clear if it was an open house, or just people having showings one after the other. The story said one house had 170 showings and 56 offers.

With my luck I would try to sell my house and not get more than one showing and no offers, but I do live in a less desirable part of the metro area because I am so far out.

[Mike Henderson]

The Star Tribune newspaper has a story in today's paper about how fast houses in some areas are selling. There is a picture with the story showing at least 20 people in line to see a house for sale. It wasn't clear if it was an open house, or just people having showings one after the other. The story said one house had 170 showings and 56 offers.

With my luck I would try to sell my house and not get more than one showing and no offers, but I do live in a less desirable part of the metro area because I am so far out.

If you have good Internet you may be in a very desirable location for "work-from-home" people:)

Mike

[Brian Elfert]

If you have good Internet you may be in a very desirable location for "work-from-home" people:)

I have no interest in selling, but I have the worst luck with selling houses. My previous house I sold in 2014 for $328,000. The new owners ended up selling it in December 2018 for $425,000. If I knew the value would go up that much I would have stayed a few more years. My finances would be in far better shape if I had that extra $90,000. Houses where I live know didn’t go up in value near that much during the same time.

I have very good Internet so no issues with remote work. I have been working remotely three of every four weeks for a year now.

[Jim Becker]

I don’t know all the rules real estate agents have to follow, but is it possible the selling agent contacted other potential buyers or their agents to say there has been an offer and to put in an offer if still interested?

Until an offer is accepted, other offers can continue to be considered and yes, the selling agent can ask for more offers. Most offers do have a time period for acceptance, however, and in the current market, that's often within one day. Selling agents will sometimes counter that slightly by saying that offers will be reviewed on a certain date/time, such as the Monday following listing and a full weekend of tours and open houses. They do this to both get multiple offers and almost assure that the price will be bid up in many cases.

[Stan Calow]

I don’t know all the rules real estate agents have to follow, but is it possible the selling agent contacted other potential buyers or their agents to say there has been an offer and to put in an offer if still interested?

Absolutely common around here. The listing agent works for the seller and their commission is dependent on the selling price. So the incentive is to get the highest price possible. An offer is just an offer.

You know, we've seen real estate bubbles before (not that long ago), so selling high, renting for awhile, then buying at a lower price, is not a bad strategy.

[Clifford McGuire]

THings are hopping in RE, John... In some respects, I wish we were free to relocate to a so-called "less expensive" area, but we aren't.

Where would that be? It seems crazy all over.

[Jim Becker]

Where would that be? It seems crazy all over.

While the market is hot in most places, there are certainly geographies where the average property prices, even with exuberant pricing/bidding, are lower than here in the NE. The current "average" property price in our township is just a hair under $700K. The equivalent would sell for quite a bit less in some nice areas for sure.

[Clifford McGuire]

Where would that be? It seems crazy all over.


While the market is hot in most places, there are certainly geographies where the average property prices, even with exuberant pricing/bidding, are lower than here in the NE. The current "average" property price in our township is just a hair under $700K. The equivalent would sell for quite a bit less in some nice areas for sure.

I read the previous post wrong.

I was wondering if there were any areas of the U.S. that were immune from the crazy residential price increases that have been going on in the past several months.

[Jim Becker]

Just to bring this back full circle, yesterday we hit the important milestone of getting our mortgage commitment for the new property. On time...go figure!! A friend recently didn't get his until 4:59p the day before closing.

So...that means...a shop build is in my future. :) :D

Now let's just all cross our crossables that the feeding frenzy hits for our current property, too, once we list it by the end of the month. ;) (Have a few repairs that need to be completed first)

[Lisa Starr]

Congratulations! Our home was a cash purchase, but it was a short sale. The day of closing (after a month of re-schedules) the attorney's received the okay from the bank 45 minutes before the closing. Of course, I still needed to go to the bank and arrange for the wire transfer of the funds and get to the closing. I made it with a minute to spare! Hope yours is much smoother.

[Jim Becker]

Nothing like timing to the minuet, eih? We'll have to do the "big transfer" thing once the bridge loan funds. That may be by wire or may be by cashier's check. Either way, a visit to the bank will be required.

[David LaRue]

So...that means...a shop build is in my future. :) :D




Jim,

Congrats! We just relocated from Illinois to Atlanta. We purchased a home with a perfect place for an expanded shop in the terrace level. Everything still in boxes, but machines are moved in. I'll be upgrading some, and getting organized. I'm looking forward to it as I'm sure you will be too getting started on planning a new shop. Keep us informed, and I would like to see the progress in pictures, and your logic on why you plan on doing this or that..

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, David! I'm just about ready to start moving the shop into the temporary space ("garage" :D) ...which is going to be a "not fun" task. I have to get moving on it because the old property listing goes live today, literally. So I need my stuff out so I can clean out the building. I rented a storage locker locally to put my material and other things in for awhile until I can get a building up. There's just not enough room for everything in a 21' x 21' "garage".

[David LaRue]

I used Pack Rat to move my tools. They have a 6k load rating for the 16' container, the doors are swing, and everything loads on the ground. They pick up store (if you want to) and deliver. A good option that worked for me. I used 4 pods and a moving van!

[Jim Becker]

I'll check that out, David, but most likely my CNC, J/P, BS, lathe and tool cabinets will move on my trailer or someone's trailer. It's a 6 mile move.

[Jim Matthews]

I'll check that out, David, but most likely my CNC, J/P, BS, lathe and tool cabinets will move on my trailer or someone's trailer. It's a 6 mile move.

Stock up on ibuprofen, now.

[Jim Becker]

Stock up on ibuprofen, now.
I can't take it anymore...had to switch to other things. LOL But yea, after helping Jeff load the 1500 lb slider yesterday, I'm really feeling it! (I sold the slider rather than pay money to store it for as much as a year)