first round of tools for new lathe

[Stephen White]

I hope this type of post is OK here, I just worked through a few days of reviews and advice from another thread here and ordered a Rikon 70-220 Midi lathe and will be teaching myself to turn with the use of video tutorials. I think the Rikon (based on reviews) doesn't really come with much.

I want to turn small items like pens, rings, small plates, platters, bowls, small boxes, cups, goblets etc etc. I am developing small products that I will be selling along side pottery when we do art shows (when they finally start up again). I am following a thread posted earlier and going through and searching previous post as well. Posted this with my specific lathe and plans hoping for more custom response but if you posted on the other one I will see it there too.

I would appreciate input on the first few hundred dollar round of tools I should get and the best brands.

[David Bassett]

There's not anything specific about that lathe that would affect what I normally think of when I hear lathe tools. (Gouges, skews, etc.) For small things you don't need short tools, though you'll probably want narrower tools. E.g. 1/4" spindle gouge, instead of a 3/8" or 1/2", for delicate coves & beads. (Eventually most of us want them all. :) ) Also, as is suggested in all these threads, the cheap tools can be hit or miss and cause beginners unlimited frustration. A few from good solid reliable brands is the way to start.

I suppose chucks need to be sized to a lathe. Of course you need to match the spindle threads, but most chucks use adapters to match the lathe, but also there is the scale. E.g. spinning a TeknaTool Titan chuck on that lathe wouldn't work well due to the size/mass mismatch. It should be powerful enough to handle a SuperNova2 sized chuck, but the Nova G3 size would probably be a better match. (Though I think it's slightly less nice.) It wouldn't add any strain to the motor and it'd eat less of your bed capacity.

As far as other tools, e.g. live centers, I'm pretty sure that lathe has MT2 tapers at both ends which is pretty standard these days, so general advice will apply. (But double check.)

I can't really think of anything else you might want to start. Now, once started... there are a gazillon options that may or may not help depending on exactly what you're trying to do.

[David Harris]

The Robert Sorby set contains everything needed for beginner lathe users. https://www.rockler.com/sorby-6-piece-woodturning-set-with-book-and-dvd-woodturning-a-foundation-course.
It also provides a DVD for assistance. This is the set I have been using for over 12 years and if you keep them sharp you can do just about anything with them.

[David Walser]

Stephen -- For what you're planning on making, here is what I would recommend:


Apprentice Pen Turning Essentials Kit No. 2 MT (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/5/4646/apprentice-Pen-Turning-Essentials-Kit)

Artisan Superflute Bowl Gouge 3/8" (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/129/948/artisan-Superflute-Bowl-Gouge)

Artisan Round Point Negative Rake Scraper 3/4" (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/129/3160/artisan-Round-Point-Negative-Rake-Scraper)

Artisan Skew Chisel 1/2" (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/130/3399/artisan-Skew-Chisel)

Artisan Spindle Gouge 3/8" (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/130/3483/artisan-Spindle-Gouge)

Artisan Spindle Roughing Gouge (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/130/3147/artisan-Spindle-Roughing-Gouge)

Artisan Diamond Parting Tool (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/130/1439/artisan-Diamond-Parting-Tool)

Record Power SC4 Chuck (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/177/6477/record-power-SC4-Chuck)

I found all these tools at Craft Supplies USA, which is one of the top-tier woodturning suppliers. There are others in the same category, such as Packard Woodworks. I went with CSUSA simply because they are my go to vendor. I've also had good experience with Packard. You can construct a similar list by going to Packard.

I chose tools from CSUSA's 'house brand' of turning tools. The tools are made by Henry Taylor in England. Packard also has a house brand made for them in England. You can save a little money by going with the house brand rather than buying the 'name brand'. Other than the cost savings, the house brand tools are not as highly polished as the name brand tools. The difference is only cosmetic. They are otherwise identical to the name brand tools and work just as well.

Why these tools instead of the Sorby starter set? Sorby is a quality brand. I own several Sorby tools and like them. However, I prefer Henry Taylor tools (including CSUSA's house brand) for this type of turning tool. They just fit my hand better. There are better tools than those made in England -- Thompson, D-Way, and Carter & Son, are examples of these premium brands. (The England tool brands also make tools from the same premium steels found in Thompson, D-Way, and Carter & Son.) At some point, you may choose to upgrade to a premium tool. However, the tools I've listed will continue in your regular rotation for a very long time. They are very good and will serve you well.

I've recommended the Record Power SC4 chuck. It is a virtual clone of the Nova SuperNova2 chuck, which is very popular. The jaw sets are interchangeable between the Nova and Record Power chucks, which is nice because some jaw types might not be available from one brand or the other. Why the Record Power and not the Nova? I believe the Record Power to be made with slightly better materials and to have a slightly better fit and finish. It's a close call.

If you buy three or more tools from CSUSA, you'll receive a 10% discount. If you sign up for their rewards program, you'll also earn points toward store credit that can be used for future purchases. If you do go with CSUSA, tell them I sent you (and they'll say, "Who?"). I have no relationship with CSUSA other than that of a customer.

Note: None of these tools are what I would consider best in class. Nor are they necessarily what I would buy for myself. I no longer use a pen mandrel for turning pens, for example. So, I wouldn't buy a pen mandrel. However, for someone just starting out, I think a pen mandrel is the way to go. Also, I have, like, and use regularly, several of the tools on this list. I have two Record Power SC4 chucks. They are very good and I have no complaints. I also have Vicmarc chucks and prefer them. But, Vicmarc's are more money. I have several of CSUSA's house brand tools. I like and use them regularly. However, when buying new turning tools, I look first to Thompson and D-Way. I'll probably buy some more CSUSA's house brand tools, but they are lower down in terms of preference.

But, I'm not just starting out and trying on this woodturning thing for size. If I were, I'd buy exactly what I recommended above.

HTH

[Stephen White]

Checking these out now, thanks!

[Stephen White]

Thanks, I am going to check out the Nova G3 thanks!

[Stephen White]

Rockler is out but looking around. Might keep these in mind when I am ready for a nice $300 set. In another thread it was suggested that I might trash a few tools b4 I really get the hang of sharpening do you think it might be best to get a nice set like this 6 months in?

[John K Jordan]

I hope this type of post is OK here, I just worked through a few days of reviews and advice from another thread here and ordered a Rikon 70-220 Midi lathe and will be teaching myself to turn with the use of video tutorials. I think the Rikon (based on reviews) doesn't really come with much.

I want to turn small items like pens, rings, small plates, platters, bowls, small boxes, cups, goblets etc etc. I am developing small products that I will be selling along side pottery when we do art shows (when they finally start up again). I am following a thread posted earlier and going through and searching previous post as well. Posted this with my specific lathe and plans hoping for more custom response but if you posted on the other one I will see it there too.

I would appreciate input on the first few hundred dollar round of tools I should get and the best brands.

Lots of possibilities and quality tools out there. How many $hundreds do you want to spend? :)
Here are my own preferences for relatively small things. Note that I am REAL picky about my tools! I have many more tools but I do 90% of my smallish turnings with these.

1/2" and perhaps 1" skew from Thompson Tools
3/8" spindle gouge from Thompson
1/8" parting tools from Thompson
5/8" StLeger spindle roughing gouge from Thompson if he still sells it (he hates to make them!)
1" spindle roughing gouge from Sorby or whatever; (I prefer the 1" from Thompson but he no longer makes it)
3/8 bowl gouge from Thompson
3/8" Hercules tool from Mike Hunter (get extra carbide bit)

For hollowing small things the set of three Hunter Tools are my go-tos:
They are NOT cheap but will last a lifetime, especially with the replaceable cutters.
http://dev3.huntertoolsystems.com/taper-overview-new/
If you decide to buy from Mike my favorite way is to contact him by phone:
Phone 612-718-7926|huntertoolsystems@gmail.com
(I gave Mike your name in case you decide to call.)

I buy all Hunter and Thompson tools without handles. I make handles with inserts and swap tools as needed.

(Disclosure: Both Doug Thompson and Mike Hunter are a long-time trusted friends but I get no financial considerations from recommendations!)

Another company with high quality tools is Carter and Son. However, due to things I won't discuss here I cannot recommend buying from them.

BTW, here are the Tompson 5/8" and 1" spindle roughing gouges. Then are made from solid round bar stock and extremely tough, unlike roughing gouges with a tang.

451956

451957

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

Thanks, I am going to check out the Nova G3 thanks!

I found the Nova G3 Pro-Tek "Bundle" for close to the same price as the standard set - and keep in mind there is a newer version out labeled 'Nova G3 Pro-Tek" which has a few new features, including righty-tighty when using the chuck key instead of the inverse way on the older model. The bundle comes with a few extra sets of jaws, which are expensive to buy individually, and a hard case, etc. I think I paid 189.00. Rockler, etc sell the standard, non-bundle set for 149.00. I went through ebay to find it myself.

Knowing I need to know how to sharpen and not knowing what I would want and need at first (meaning about two weeks ago) after getting my new midi lathe, I went for an inexpensive PSI/Benjamin's Best set (74.00/amazon) with plans to upgrade specific tools later.

Still waiting on grinder and rest of the sharpening gear from woodturners wonders.

Hope some of this helps. This is an excellent forum for questions like this, I've found.

[Allen Mattsen]

Lots of possibilities and quality tools out there. How many $hundreds do you want to spend? :)
Here are my own preferences for relatively small things. Note that I am REAL picky about my tools! I have many more tools but I do 90% of my smallish turnings with these.

1/2" and perhaps 1" skew from Thompson Tools
3/8" spindle gouge from Thompson
1/8" parting tools from Thompson
5/8" StLeger spindle roughing gouge from Thompson if he still sells it (he hates to make them!)
1" spindle roughing gouge from Sorby or whatever; (I prefer the 1" from Thompson but he no longer makes it)
3/8 bowl gouge from Thompson
3/8" Hercules tool from Mike Hunter (get extra carbide bit)

For hollowing small things the set of three Hunter Tools are my go-tos:
They are NOT cheap but will last a lifetime, especially with the replaceable cutters.
http://dev3.huntertoolsystems.com/taper-overview-new/
If you decide to buy from Mike my favorite way is to contact him by phone:
Phone 612-718-7926|huntertoolsystems@gmail.com
(I gave Mike your name in case you decide to call.)

BTW, here are the Tompson 5/8" and 1" spindle roughing gouges. Then are made from solid round bar stock and extremely tough, unlike roughing gouges with a tang.

451956

451957

JKJ

If you don't mind I have a couple questions about this list and other tools. I am also new to the craft. Will the Hunter tools be well suited to hollowing small boxes (up to 6" deep) or hollow forms?

Could you talk more about what type of grind/profiles come on the spindle and bowl gouges you recommended?

What about Negative Rake scrapers?

Would the "Easy Wood Tools Mid-Size Easy Hollower #1" (pic below) be similar or an alternative to the Hunter 'Hercules' tool or the Jordan hollowing tools? https://www.packardwoodworks.com/tools-jord-holl.html? I guess I'd like to know why you prefer the Hunter tools for hollowing - I want good tools - and this is the first I've heard this suggestion. I'd like a beefy tool that can handle deeper cuts and finishing the bottom of boxes and other things and really just don't know what to get. It seems with the Jordan tools you can sharpen them yourself on a good grinder setup. Thanks.
451993

Thanks!

[Melvin Feng]

For a budget of a few hundred dollars, I would personally recommend starting with carbide insert tools. This will allow you to get going pretty quickly, and not have to worry about the investment into a sharpening setup. I turned with carbide insert tools for many years before taking the plunge into traditional tooling. You can do a considerable amount with just a radiused square roughing gouge. I have the full sized easy wood tools version, but there are a whole bunch of options on the market nowadays for a whole range of sizes.

When first starting out with small projects, I personally like to buy the cheapest kits first to figure things out, and then buy the more expensive kits once I know I can do a good job. I did this with pens when I first started, and bought the cheapest slimline kits to learn the process. Now I still have some slimline kits, but of higher quality, and then I've also branched out to the more expensive kits (I've been really liking the magnetic graduate kits as of late).

Also, for pens in particular, I really like the pen drilling jaws for the lathe: https://www.pennstateind.com/store/CSCPENCHK2.html

This makes drilling the center hole much easier and more consistent (You'll also need a MT2 Jacob's chuck to hold your drills in the tailstock). Before getting the chuck, I used my drill press, but I wasn't great at lining things up perfectly, and the drill press center drilling vises didn't seem to be as good of a solution as the chuck.

I have two of the Nova G3 chucks, and I find them a great value. I do have additional jaws, but I find swapping jaws to be annoying and rarely do it now, and I prefer to buy additional chucks if I can justify it.

In my opinion, with a limited budget, it makes more sense to start with carbide insert tooling, and spend any extra money on kits and turning blanks to practice and get going a bit more quickly.

If you have already budgeted for a grinder, CBN Wheels, sharpening jigs, etc. then my recommendation for tooling would definitely be different, but I couldn't tell from your initial post whether that would be included in the few hundred dollars along with the tools or separate. Could you clarify about if you were planning on getting a sharpening setup, and what your budget meant to cover?

[John K Jordan]

If you don't mind I have a couple questions about this list and other tools. I am also new to the craft. Will the Hunter tools be well suited to hollowing small boxes (up to 6" deep) or hollow forms?

Could you talk more about what type of grind/profiles come on the spindle and bowl gouges you recommended?

What about Negative Rake scrapers?

Would the "Easy Wood Tools Mid-Size Easy Hollower #1" (pic below) be similar or an alternative to the Hunter 'Hercules' tool or the Jordan hollowing tools? https://www.packardwoodworks.com/tools-jord-holl.html? I guess I'd like to know why you prefer the Hunter tools for hollowing - I want good tools - and this is the first I've heard this suggestion. I'd like a beefy tool that can handle deeper cuts and finishing the bottom of boxes and other things and really just don't know what to get. It seems with the Jordan tools you can sharpen them yourself on a good grinder setup. Thanks.
451993

Thanks!

Allen,

Mike Hunter does have some tools that will handle hollow forms and other boxes. A box 6" deep is not exactly small but fairly large for a lidded box. That or a little deeper is the size of the Beads of Courage boxes/lidded bowls I usually make. I make these from dry wood by prehollowing each section, gluing together, then finish cutting the inside with one of the larger Hunter tools and smooth with a curved scraper on a Sorby multitool. (The Hunters work great on the inside too.) Examples of BOC boxes:

452050 452064

I very much like the Thompson tools because of the steel but I don't like his grinds at all. (Sorry Doug!) I grind a swept-back fingernail grind on the spindle gouges and detail gouges. I'm real particular about my spindle gouges so I grind them on the 1200 grit CBN wheel on a Tormek and strop with the leather wheels.

Negative Rake Scrapers are the biggest "advancement" in turning in recent years. I say this with a grain of salt since they are nothing new. I have a book published in the '50 that shows a scraper ground with a negative rake! But properly sharpened, they can save a huge amount of time and eliminate all of the power sanding that most people use on bowls and platters. I've written about this in great detail in other threads here so I won't go into it now. I will show you my own grind for NRS, one I came up with some years back and find it useful on any bowl, platter, or winged piece I do. After such scraping and some quality time with hand scrapers, I almost never need sandpaper coarser than 320 grit, doing much of the sanding by hand. The NRS must have a proper burr to work = I use a burnisher to add this burr. My design has a but of a flt towards the tip, a long rounded side, and an included angle of about 60 degrees. I keep several with the burrs on different sides to give me "left" and "right" handed versions for outside and inside. I grind these from Thompson scraper stock and skew stock. I use these without handles.

452056 452058

The Easy Wood tools are not even close to the Hunters. I bought some EW tools at one time and gave them away. My harsh opinion based on experience and observation: They are real easy to use and often used by beginners because no skill is needed but the finish is generally horrible, sometimes with extensive tearout needing a LOT of sanding. A full discussion of these would fill pages. My advice, don't waste your time and money unless you just want to have fun and don't aspire to excellence. The Hunter tools use a carefully engineered and extremely sharp round cutter that functions just like a sharp gouge, "cutting" instead of "scraping". The finish cut from a skillfully controlled Hunter tool can be extremely smooth and with zero tearout - just like a good bowl gouge. There are some Hunter tools which are excellent for hollowing deep and closed forms but I thought you were asking about smaller work. One big advantage for some is they never need sharpening but have replaceable cutters.

I use the small Hunter Hercules to do almost all the cutting on these pieces except for the detail in the center of the bottom. The Hercules, followed by the NRS and hand scraping gives me excellent surfaces with minimal sanding.

452060 452061

I have a set of the Jordan tools and handles. They have a small scraper bit. They are excellent for hollowing green wood vessels, some work with dry wood. They leave the inside very rough. For vessels with small openings you can't feel inside this doesn't matter a bit. For things with larger openings that I insist be perfect on the inside, I use either one of the larger Hunter tools, usually followed by a teardrop scraper on a sorby swan neck handle, then sand by hand. (I haven't power sanded with rotating disks for a bunch of years.)

I made this from dry wood. I want the inside to be as flawless as the outside.

452051 452062

I would recommend someone new to the craft not get worked up to buy a fortune in good tools right away. Get a few basic tools, a minimum a skew chisel, spindle gouge, parting tool, and spindle roughing tool. Learn to sharpen, and not just enough go get by, but with perfection. Start and become an expert at spindle turning - this will teach you the fine tool control that will let you be an expert at turning ANYTHING! Then very slowly expand your turning and get a good bowl gouge and/or Hunter tool and learn face turning (bowls and platters). The tools you then decide to acquire will probably be determined by the direction your interests take you.

The best path forward has been repeated here often - find an instructor/mentor, join a club, take some courses, go to symposiums and see the pros in action, read and study, ask questions, and don't get in too big a hurry. A good mentor is probably the most valuable of these - you can try different tools and see what you like best.

JKJ

[tom lucas]

Oh boy! Advice all over the map here. I'll just share my experience when I first started. I really didn't have any interest in turning, and was quite frankly afraid of it. Then a coworker convinced me to buy his lathe, which came with a set of cheap chinese tools in a wooden box. I paid $75 for the tools and a 15" craftsman lathe. I had no clue what I was doing at first. I didn't even know what a sharp tool was supposed to look like. I sharpened the cheap tools on a wet grinder and kept at it until I felt I could at least turn something round safely. I learned a lot working with those cheap chinese tools: what sharp looked like and cut like, what dull cut like, and most importantly how to sharpen those tools. In the middle all this, frustrated with the chinese tools and my sharpening skills/equipment, I bought 3 carbide tools (quality full size woodpecker) thinking this would be my saving grace. Well they worked, but I didn't like them. I could get a smoother surface using the chinese tools, at least for the few minutes they would cut before going dull. So by then I was hooked. I got a set of Sorby's off Craig's list for cheap. Bought a quality CBN sharpening system and got much better. Now I've moved up to Thompson and Carter & Son tools but still use some of the sorby's.

My path wasn't a bad one for me, as the first tools were virtually free. But, If I were starting from scratch again, I'd probably buy a mid-grade set of tools to start with. They will serve you well and you can learn to sharpen on them before investing in better tools. As far as carbide, I feel I wasted my money (over $300) on the Woodpeckers. Not that they are not fine tools but because I don't use them much. I will use the round cutter deep inside hollow forms, but it's really grabbie. They mostly just collect dust. I have purchased other carbide tools for special purpose needs. So it's not like carbide has no place in my shop. I just prefer gouges and regular parting tools. You really only need 4 or 5 tools to do most turning: bowl and spindle gouge, parting tool, roughing spindle gouge, and maybe a skew. The skew is versatile, but it can be frustrated to learn how to use it because mistakes often complete ruin the piece. So I would recommend waiting to pick up a skew. Others think just the opposite: start with a skew. If you start with a skew, practice, practice, practice before putting it to expensive wood. And watch Alan Batty's skew video several times. He was the master of that tool.

[Bernie Kopfer]

If you are going to buy achuck or two spend the extra and get the newer righty- tightly chucks. I have for years used the opposite and still frequently tighten the wrong way. Having both at the same time would be in my shop a disaster! The G3 is a good product but the supernove2 will allow you to upgrade lathes and I like the wrench key much better.
And I will say it again. Do you want to turn or spend time learning the art of sharpening? Carbide tools work well period. A 4cylinder will get you to town but a v8 will do it faster but you still get to town! For a few hundred bucks you get a set of med sized tools. And after ( if) you move to traditional tools you can use them to start another novice turning. The advice of finding other turners in your area to observe and converse with is good advice..

[Thomas Wilson80]

If you are going to buy achuck or two spend the extra and get the newer righty- tightly chucks. I have for years used the opposite and still frequently tighten the wrong way. Having both at the same time would be in my shop a disaster! The G3 is a good product but the supernove2 will allow you to upgrade lathes and I like the wrench key much better.
And I will say it again. Do you want to turn or spend time learning the art of sharpening? Carbide tools work well period. A 4cylinder will get you to town but a v8 will do it faster but you still get to town! For a few hundred bucks you get a set of med sized tools. And after ( if) you move to traditional tools you can use them to start another novice turning. The advice of finding other turners in your area to observe and converse with is good advice..

I agree regarding the supernova2 chuck but regarding sharpening, aside from the cost to purchase a jig/accessories (which isn’t totally inconsequential), after watching Doug Thompson’s video on sharpening for me the learning curve was negligible. Yes there is improvement in technique with time/practice, etc. but I felt with the Wolverine + varigrind 1 and a platform, basic sharpening was immediately attainable with good reproducibility.
That being said, my next goal is tackling the 40-40 grind and freehand, but that’s another beast altogether. I also started out with carbide tools and could never get a decent finish at all. Traditional tools have been so much more rewarding and better quality in my experience, so maybe I’m jaded, but I am frustrated with the money spent on carbide and consider it a near-complete waste.

tom

[Stephen White]

Thanks everyone! I'm in Texas and we just got power back. Will read through all of these suggestions b4 I order my first set of tools today.

[Stephen White]

reading the specs for the Nova site for the Pro-Tek Supernova2 it says its for 14" lathes and mine is a Rikon 70-220 12 1/2". But I see folks saying they use the Nova G3 chuck and jaw system with this model Midi lathe.

[David Bassett]

reading the specs for the Nova site for the Pro-Tek Supernova2 it says its for 14" lathes and mine is a Rikon 70-220 12 1/2". But I see folks saying they use the Nova G3 chuck and jaw system with this model Midi lathe.

SuperNova2 has more mass, so less turning blank before your motor will struggle. It also has more depth, so you'll run out of bed a little sooner. (Not much, 1/2"?) Our local Woodcraft's turning guy thinks the Rikon 70-220 would be OK with the SuperNova2 because it's at the higher end of the power range for that size lathe. (I forget, 1HP? Instead of 1/2 to 3/4HP on many of them.)

So basically your call if you have neither. You can pay a little more for a nicer chuck that'll work better on a future bigger lathe or "right size" and use a slightly less refined but very capable chuck with an irritating chuck key.

PS- get all "righty-tighty" new models or all the older "backwards" chucks. I guarantee a mix will drive you crazy. (Also realize the old chuck is "righty-tighty" when expanding it into a recess. :) )

[Melvin Feng]

Thanks everyone! I'm in Texas and we just got power back. Will read through all of these suggestions b4 I order my first set of tools today.

So do you have a sharpening system already? If so, what do you have? If not, do you have a budget set aside for it as well?

[Brian Tymchak]

reading the specs for the Nova site for the Pro-Tek Supernova2 it says its for 14" lathes and mine is a Rikon 70-220 12 1/2". But I see folks saying they use the Nova G3 chuck and jaw system with this model Midi lathe.

I have the Rikon 70-100, from before they added VS. I use the Nova Midi chucks on that machine. They are a small compact chuck, made for the small lathes. They can accept up to the 100mm jawset. I think they used to sell an insert version, but I haven't seen that lately. I have only found the direct thread version. Rockler has the chuck. Woodcraft used to, but I didn't see it on their site. Buy at least 2, to minimize jawset changes. Easier to spin on a new chuck vs changing jaws on a chuck.

Being a direct thread 1x8, the midi chuck won't transfer to very many, if any, larger lathes, but if you plan to keep the midi lathe for a while, the midi chucks might be a good investment.

[David Bassett]

... I use the Nova Midi chucks on that machine. ...

I'm not sure I've ever seen one in the flesh, nor can I find a definitive listing of Teknatool chuck sizes. But from the scattered numbers I've found this sounds to be about the same size & weight as the more versatile G3 model. E.g. several sources list "packaged weight" of 3 pounds for both chucks. If I assume the same packaging, the load on the motor would be the same. But that's hardly conclusive.

OK, found a different link that let me download a TeknaTool catalog for free. It doesn't list the Precision Midi nor an adapter G3 chuck as available. Oh, the Pro-Tek version shows an adapter G3 chuck with New Products (though not chucks.) I give up. I only see capacity measurements for different jaws. I can't find chuck body sizes or weights.

[Stephen White]

So do you have a sharpening system already? If so, what do you have? If not, do you have a budget set aside for it as well?

Budget? I never can manage to stick to that with tools. Its always more like a financial journey of decisions. This started out being a $260 HF lathe and a $25 starter set of chisels to see if I liked turning and I'm prob going to be at $1500 after chuck system and starter tools. What kind of sharpening system do you have? How much did it all cost?

I am seriously considering just getting a carbide insert system to start and deal with that later, if ever. Was reading some explanations on the difference. Never used either so there's a good chance what I start with is what I will use. It is my understanding that carbide can be sharpened using a diamond disc but most folks just toss the inserts and put in a new one. I have no concept of what that means dollar wise. If a $3 insert is tossed after each turn then I will get a sharpening system if its after 8-9 then I could see it as incidental cost. Still it does make sense just investing the few hundred in sharpening and then buying some good tools that last for a really long time.

Dunno, will keep reading and after I buy my chuck and claw system will decide.

[David Walser]

David -- Don't over think this. The SuperNova 2 chuck, or the Record Power SC4, is compatible with your lathe. You can also use those chucks with larger lathes. Before the extra weight of these chucks became a problem, you'd have to put a very large and heavy blank on the lathe. The weight just isn't a material factor to consider in choosing between the G3 and the SuperNova 2.

[Brian Tymchak]

I'm not sure I've ever seen one in the flesh, nor can I find a definitive listing of Teknatool chuck sizes. But from the scattered numbers I've found this sounds to be about the same size & weight as the more versatile G3 model. E.g. several sources list "packaged weight" of 3 pounds for both chucks. If I assume the same packaging, the load on the motor would be the same. But that's hardly conclusive.

OK, found a different link that let me download a TeknaTool catalog for free. It doesn't list the Precision Midi nor an adapter G3 chuck as available. Oh, the Pro-Tek version shows an adapter G3 chuck with New Products (though not chucks.) I give up. I only see capacity measurements for different jaws. I can't find chuck body sizes or weights.

Here's the link (https://www.teknatool.com/product/nova-precision-midi-wood-turning-chuck-18tpi-direct-thead/) on Teknatool's site.

[John K Jordan]

I'm not sure I've ever seen one in the flesh, nor can I find a definitive listing of Teknatool chuck sizes. But from the scattered numbers I've found this sounds to be about the same size & weight as the more versatile G3 model. E.g. several sources list "packaged weight" of 3 pounds for both chucks. If I assume the same packaging, the load on the motor would be the same. But that's hardly conclusive.

OK, found a different link that let me download a TeknaTool catalog for free. It doesn't list the Precision Midi nor an adapter G3 chuck as available. Oh, the Pro-Tek version shows an adapter G3 chuck with New Products (though not chucks.) I give up. I only see capacity measurements for different jaws. I can't find chuck body sizes or weights.

I've loaned out my two G3 chucks but I grabbed a Supernova2 with insert and 50mm jaws from the drawer. It weighs 4lb 10oz. I have other SN2 jaws that are made a bit different but they feel about the same weight.

One of my old style Supernovas with insert and 50mm jaws weighs 3lb 15oz.

A Nova Titan (direct thread) with larger jaws weighs 8lb 1oz.

The G3s are physically smaller and lighter in weight.

As David W said, your lathe will handle all of these, but the Titan might be overkill. However, spinning a heavy balanced chuck is not an issue even with a lathe smaller than yours. Spinning an unbalanced blank in any chuck is a factor for both stress to the lathe and possibly trauma to your face. (For safety make absolutely sure you are preparing the tenon or recess properly - there are several things that are easy to do wrong if you don't know the right ways.)

The SN2 chucks are my favorite. Second favorite are the G3s. My least favorite are the old style SN chucks with the wobbly pinion gear chuck key.

BTW, I don't consider the direction of turning a consideration as long as all the chucks in the shop work the same way. Remember that the direction for tightening depends on whether you are tightening on a tenon or tightening in a recess. If you find yourself sometimes turning the wrong way maybe do this: I use a vibrating engraver to draw a curved arrow above the socket with the word OUT.

JKJ

[David Bassett]

David -- Don't over think this. The SuperNova 2 chuck, or the Record Power SC4, is compatible with your lathe. You can also use those chucks with larger lathes. Before the extra weight of these chucks became a problem, you'd have to put a very large and heavy blank on the lathe. The weight just isn't a material factor to consider in choosing between the G3 and the SuperNova 2.

I assume that's directed at me, but it's the OP that needs to decide. SN2 is a nicer chuck, and would work well on bigger future lathes and as well for most things on OP's lathe. But the SN2 would also use a little more of the Rikon 70/220VSR's capacity than the G3. I thought I described the trade-off in the second post here.



Here's the link (https://www.teknatool.com/product/nova-precision-midi-wood-turning-chuck-18tpi-direct-thead/) on Teknatool's site.

I had found that, but it doesn't give chuck dimensions anywhere I saw. If the dimensions from scattered internet sites suggesting the Precision Midi and the G3 are the same length and weight are correct, I wouldn't be interested in the Midi with it's tommy bars versus the G3 with it's T-wrench chuck key. OTOH- if it was shorter and saved 1/2" or 3/4" of bed length I'd consider it since I'm sensitive to running out of blank plus tooling space between centers.

Also see above, the SN2 or other competing brands would be nicer unless Stephen has a project that falls in the small range it's larger size would inhibit. (I've mostly done spindles and I managed to run out of bed length on a Powermatic 4224. So I'm sensitive to the point, perhaps over sensitive. There's always another way, but it's annoying to stop a project while you scrounge or shop for a different tool.)

Heck, Stephen while we're spending your money, get the bed extension and then you'll have plenty of room for the more expensive SN2, or equivalent. I am probably over thinking this. It's only (your :) ) money!

[Stephen White]

I have the Rikon 70-100, from before they added VS. I use the Nova Midi chucks on that machine. They are a small compact chuck, made for the small lathes. They can accept up to the 100mm jawset. I think they used to sell an insert version, but I haven't seen that lately. I have only found the direct thread version. Rockler has the chuck. Woodcraft used to, but I didn't see it on their site. Buy at least 2, to minimize jawset changes. Easier to spin on a new chuck vs changing jaws on a chuck.

Being a direct thread 1x8, the midi chuck won't transfer to very many, if any, larger lathes, but if you plan to keep the midi lathe for a while, the midi chucks might be a good investment.

I don't care about using anything from this lathe to another larger one. I can always add an extension to get length to full size if I want and if I buy another down the road will just get another chuck system. I want the best tools for this lathe. Thanks for this will go check Midi chucks.

[Stephen White]

Heck, Stephen while we're spending your money, get the bed extension and then you'll have plenty of room for the more expensive SN2, or equivalent. I am probably over thinking this. It's only (your :) ) money!

ha ha, no I don't need the extension. I got the Midi because its the size I wanted but it is nice that if I ever want to do longer stuff such as table legs I can get the extension.

[Stephen White]

If you have already budgeted for a grinder, CBN Wheels, sharpening jigs, etc. then my recommendation for tooling would definitely be different, but I couldn't tell from your initial post whether that would be included in the few hundred dollars along with the tools or separate. Could you clarify about if you were planning on getting a sharpening setup, and what your budget meant to cover?

Nope, didn't know enough about turning to know I needed one. Sounds like carbide would be a quick option to push that decision down the road a bit. I have been researching this for a couple of hours and it seems a 3 piece set of yufutol, rikon, easy wood tools all run around 150-250 and then the inserts run around 5-6 bucks and can be used for 180 minutes. Sounds like might be fine while learning but then get to expensive if using for a product. The $300 bucks mentioned was just a guesstimate on what I thought I would spend not really a budget. Can spend what I need just want to get it right if I can so not wasting money on wrong gear. Thanks for the post!

[David Bassett]

Nope, didn't know enough about turning to know I needed one. Sounds like carbide would be a quick option to push that decision down the road a bit. I have been researching this for a couple of hours and it seems a 3 piece set of yufutol, rikon, easy wood tools all run around 150-250 and then the inserts run around 5-6 bucks and can be used for 180 minutes. Sounds like might be fine while learning but then get to expensive if using for a product. The $300 bucks mentioned was just a guesstimate on what I thought I would spend not really a budget. Can spend what I need just want to get it right if I can so not wasting money on wrong gear. Thanks for the post!

Recent long thread on the topic: Buying First Turning Tools (set advice and/or individual) (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?289299-Buying-First-Turning-Tools-(set-advice-and-or-individual))

Though I'll repeat my plug for a few decent (mid-range or up) tools and a Oneway Wolverine sharpening system with the Vari-Grind1 to start. Because the economy tools can cause a beginner more trouble than they're worth and most, practically all, sharpening instruction assumes you have the Wolverine system.

(Crown, Sorby, Henry Taylor, Craft Supplies house brand, Packard's house brand tools would be good. Doug Thompson or D-Way tools would be great. 1/2 HP Rikon 1/2 speed grinder seems to be a sweet spot, though there are much better grinders and with skill much cheaper ones are usable.)

[Stephen White]

As far as carbide, I feel I wasted my money (over $300) on the Woodpeckers. Not that they are not fine tools but because I don't use them much. I will use the round cutter deep inside hollow forms, but it's really grabbie. They mostly just collect dust. I have purchased other carbide tools for special purpose needs. So it's not like carbide has no place in my shop. I just prefer gouges and regular parting tools. You really only need 4 or 5 tools to do most turning: bowl and spindle gouge, parting tool, roughing spindle gouge, and maybe a skew. The skew is versatile, but it can be frustrated to learn how to use it because mistakes often complete ruin the piece. So I would recommend waiting to pick up a skew. Others think just the opposite: start with a skew. If you start with a skew, practice, practice, practice before putting it to expensive wood. And watch Alan Batty's skew video several times. He was the master of that tool.

bummer was hoping carbide was an easy way to get started and deal with sharpening later. Sounds like that wasn't your experience.

[David Bassett]

bummer was hoping carbide was an easy way to get started and deal with sharpening later. Sounds like that wasn't your experience.

I may be one of the biggest proponents of the carbide tools here. (Explicitly ignoring the Hunter tools which are carbide but require the traditional skills and offer traditional advantages! Don't flame me Hunter fans.) But I'd characterize them as more for people who want to make things round without learning to turn. That doesn't sound like you. With skill the traditional tools offer more design options and higher surface finish quality.

[Brian Tymchak]

I had found that, but it doesn't give chuck dimensions anywhere I saw. If the dimensions from scattered internet sites suggesting the Precision Midi and the G3 are the same length and weight are correct, I wouldn't be interested in the Midi with it's tommy bars versus the G3 with it's T-wrench chuck key. OTOH- if it was shorter and saved 1/2" or 3/4" of bed length I'd consider it since I'm sensitive to running out of blank plus tooling space between centers.


Hmm, surprised the site doesn't give any physical data.

Dimensions of my midi: dia = 3.489" , length (to top of jaw slides) = 1.677"
Weight: 2.4 lbs.

Yes, the tommy bars are a bit of a hassle. Would definitely prefer the T wrench.

[David Bassett]

... Dimensions of my midi: dia = 3.489" , length (to top of jaw slides) = 1.677"
Weight: 2.4 lbs. ...

Thanks. That's roughly the same size as the G3, but I'm not confident my numbers for it are good. Both seem to be slightly smaller diameter and roughly 1-1/2" shorter than the SuperNova2. I guess I'm not really sure how much it matters.

[Stephen White]

I may be one of the biggest proponents of the carbide tools here. (Explicitly ignoring the Hunter tools which are carbide but require the traditional skills and offer traditional advantages! Don't flame me Hunter fans.) But I'd characterize them as more for people who want to make things round without learning to turn. That doesn't sound like you. With skill the traditional tools offer more design options and higher surface finish quality.

Thanks, that is exactly what I was trying to figure out. It is hard to separate whether someone that is not a carbide fan is exaggerating the lack of finish quality. I see lot of post on different boards and here say that they wanted to give carbide a chance but they felt they just didn't end up in the same place with the final finish.

[John K Jordan]

Thanks, that is exactly what I was trying to figure out. It is hard to separate whether someone that is not a carbide fan is exaggerating the lack of finish quality. I see lot of post on different boards and here say that they wanted to give carbide a chance but they felt they just didn't end up in the same place with the final finish.

Best thing for you to do might be visit a local turner and get a demonstration and maybe try them yourself, the conventional tools, flat-topped carbide, and Hunter carbide. I sometimes have people come to my shop try out different tools before they buy since I keep a variety (including most of the Hunter tools + conventional tools). However, as I mentioned, I got rid of the flat-topped carbide so I can't show people a comparison.

However, there are turners in our club who have both. Many bought Hunter tools after seeing and feeling the difference in club demos. I suspect nearly any club in the country will have members with one or the other or both types.

JKJ

[David Walser]

Thanks, that is exactly what I was trying to figure out. It is hard to separate whether someone that is not a carbide fan is exaggerating the lack of finish quality. I see lot of post on different boards and here say that they wanted to give carbide a chance but they felt they just didn't end up in the same place with the final finish.

Stephen -- I cannot speak for anyone else, but I've owned carbide tools (of the EWT type) since the mid-2000's. I have both square and round cutter versions. This was well before EWT released their tools. Mine were made by a guy in New Mexico. He took off-the-shelf carbide cutters and mounted them onto 1/2" mild-steel round rods. He then put a golf grip on the end of the rod. The tools feel good in the hand and work every bit as well as an EWT with the same size cutter. (I bought an EWT to see if they worked better than what I already had. Nope.)

I didn't spend money on these tools in the hopes that they wouldn't work for me as well as traditional tools. Nor did I buy them so I could produce a YouTube video or write a blog post showing the differences between the two types of tools. I did it because I was a relatively new turner and I had yet to master sharpening. (I was still using a high-speed 6" bench grinder with the original gray wheels. It's hard to get good results with that equipment.) The attraction of being able to turn without sharpening is why I bought my carbide tools. In other words, I desperately wanted the tools to work!

However, while I was frustrated with sharpening, I DID get my tools sharp and I knew the results I could achieve with a sharp traditional tool. So, I was never satisfied with the carbide tools. They are good for roughing cuts. But, frankly, I can remove more material more quickly with my skew or spindle roughing gouge using a pealing cut. And, the surface left by the skew or SRG will be better than the carbide tools would leave. So, my traditional tools are better for roughing cuts.

Where, then, do carbide tools fit in my personal turning tool arsenal? If I'm turning something that's particularly abrasive so that it very quickly dulls my traditional tools, I reach for the carbide tools. Also, I use my carbide tools when cutting resins. (Since I cast my own blanks, I frequently use my carbide tools.) Generally, resins respond well to scraping cuts and not as well to bevel riding cuts. So, scrapers -- including flat-top carbide tools -- are what I use with resins. However, I'm switching out the flat-top carbide cutters for negative rake carbide cutters. These work even better.

My point in saying all of this is I think you are misreading what you are seeing written on this subject. I believe there are fan-boys of flat-top carbide tools. They really want to believe they get just as good a result as someone else could with a traditional tool. On the other side of the debate are those who have tried carbides and found them wanting. It's not a 'real turners use traditional tools', or 'traditional tools were good enough for my grandpa and they're good enough for me', kind of thing. Turners are very quick to adopt new and better ways of getting things done. That's why we use scroll chucks instead of faceplates and why variable speed lathes are so popular. If I had gotten great results with my carbide tools, they'd be my go to tools. I didn't and they are not.

[Stephen White]

My point in saying all of this is I think you are misreading what you are seeing written on this subject. I believe there are fan-boys of flat-top carbide tools. They really want to believe they get just as good a result as someone else could with a traditional tool. On the other side of the debate are those who have tried carbides and found them wanting. It's not a 'real turners use traditional tools', or 'traditional tools were good enough for my grandpa and they're good enough for me', kind of thing. Turners are very quick to adopt new and better ways of getting things done. That's why we use scroll chucks instead of faceplates and why variable speed lathes are so popular. If I had gotten great results with my carbide tools, they'd be my go to tools. I didn't and they are not.

No I think I get it, sounds like carbide certainly has it's place but they are not a good replacement for traditional tools. I was originally hoping they were an alternative and I would just skip the whole sharpening routine but from your post as well as others that just does not seem to be true.

It seems like since the way you hold the tools and the way you cut is different between them that maybe I should just get a set of each and work with all of them as I learn so that I know how to turn with both but I'm tempted to go with carbide first for a few months so I can compartmentalize some of this since I literally know nothing. It's not money but just wanting to learn a few basics and get started.

What you would recommend?

[Stephen White]

Best thing for you to do might be visit a local turner and get a demonstration and maybe try them yourself, the conventional tools, flat-topped carbide, and Hunter carbide. I sometimes have people come to my shop try out different tools before they buy since I keep a variety (including most of the Hunter tools + conventional tools). However, as I mentioned, I got rid of the flat-topped carbide so I can't show people a comparison.

However, there are turners in our club who have both. Many bought Hunter tools after seeing and feeling the difference in club demos. I suspect nearly any club in the country will have members with one or the other or both types.

JKJ

I don't disagree with the advice but my lathe is on its way and with the pandemic I am not doing things like this right now so I am going to go the self teaching route with lots and lots of YouTube hours watching videos. Not the best I know but all I have right now.

[Stephen White]

Hmm, surprised the site doesn't give any physical data.

Dimensions of my midi: dia = 3.489" , length (to top of jaw slides) = 1.677"
Weight: 2.4 lbs.

Yes, the tommy bars are a bit of a hassle. Would definitely prefer the T wrench.

Not sure about this exchange but I am trying to understand which chuck system is the right one for my Midi with zero thought to using it on any other one later. It seems like to G3 and SN2 are for bigger lathes and need an adapter to run on mine? So far the link from one of you guys to nova: NOVA CHUCK PRECISION MIDI DIRECT THREAD 1″ X 8TPI (SKU 48111 AND 71028)
is really the only reference I have found. My internet is up and down but trying to do more research. This product says it fits the full range of nova chuck accessories but still don't really get if it will fit my rikon 70-220

[tom lucas]

Not sure about this exchange but I am trying to understand which chuck system is the right one for my Midi with zero thought to using it on any other one later. It seems like to G3 and SN2 are for bigger lathes and need an adapter to run on mine? So far the link from one of you guys to nova: NOVA CHUCK PRECISION MIDI DIRECT THREAD 1″ X 8TPI (SKU 48111 AND 71028)


is really the only reference I have found. My internet is up and down but trying to do more research. This product says it fits the full range of nova chuck accessories but still don't really get if it will fit my rikon 70-220


Either chuck is fine for your Midi. Any chuck that is not directly threaded requires an adapter. This is so that one chuck can be used on lathes with different spindles by simply buying another adapter. Chucks can be purchased direct threaded, with an adapter, or without an adapter. The trend lately with NOVA is without the adapter. Then you just buy the adapter separately. I suspect this is driven in part by marketing, and in part by inventory overhead. They appear cheaper because no adapter is included, and htye are easier to package and stock because it's a single chuck variant, not 3, 4, or more for all the adapter types. My suggestion is the SN2 is the better all around chuck: bit heavier duty to handle larger items, and better keying mechanism. But the G3 is a great value too.

[David Bassett]

... It seems like to G3 and SN2 are for bigger lathes and need an adapter to run on mine? ...

Sorry we've confused you. Unfortunately precise information seems unavailable online. I pretty sure we figured out the Precision Midi is the same size as the G3 chuck. The G3 will be nicer to use, but depending on sales etc. seems to be a little more. The SN2 is bigger. It works like the G3, but has nicer features. It should also work fine on your lathe and I'd say is definitely better on bigger lathes. It also seems to be a common size that is available from other makers, perhaps at a better price or with better quality.

Adapter is almost orthogonal. It might be better described as an insert as it has outside threads that match a large threaded hole in the chuck and fits mostly inside the chuck body. It then has inside threads that match one of the various lathe standards. (Teknatool actually sells a threaded plug that fits their chucks so you can have a machinist bore and thread the lathe side to match a non-standard lathe.) They work very well and provide some future proofing, but they add 1/4" to 3/8" to the chuck's height. You have to decide what tradeoffs you want to make. I think I'd go with a direct attach G3 if I was worried about running out of bed length and a SN2 with adapter if I wasn't.

BTW- Adapter is also used to mean something that goes between the lathe and the chuck. I've never seen one used or recommended, and they don't look like they'd work all that well. (To see an example, the direct fitting chucks on the Teknatool pages have links saying saying something like "only compatible with".)

[David Walser]

I would recommend going with traditional tools, first. Then, after you're comfortable using traditional tools, if you feel the need, add some carbide tools (which may include the Hunter carbide tools) to your arsenal. The skills required to use traditional tools are easily transferred to the use of flat-top carbide tools.

[Prashun Patel]

The g3 can be purchased with a 1x8 insert. I used one successfully for years. Then I got a larger lathe and used an adapter to make that insert and chuck fit my 1 1/4 spindle. It’s a good chuck.

[Stephen White]

Either chuck is fine for your Midi. Any chuck that is not directly threaded requires an adapter. This is so that one chuck can be used on lathes with different spindles by simply buying another adapter. Chucks can be purchased direct threaded, with an adapter, or without an adapter. The trend lately with NOVA is without the adapter. Then you just buy the adapter separately. I suspect this is driven in part by marketing, and in part by inventory overhead. They appear cheaper because no adapter is included, and htye are easier to package and stock because it's a single chuck variant, not 3, 4, or more for all the adapter types. My suggestion is the SN2 is the better all around chuck: bit heavier duty to handle larger items, and better keying mechanism. But the G3 is a great value too.

ha got some power,

OK that makes sense. Nova has a G3 chuck and bowl turning bundle with 1x8tpi. I want to start with wine stems and small under 12" bowls and this would get me started on bowls.

I have read several places that the bundles are good deals on getting some stuff included.

also is a supernove2 anniversary bundle, sounds like I need the 1x8 adapter for that one, will read on it as well

Thanks I feel like I am getting somewhere on the chuck system anyway. Still undecided on starting with a carbide set and inserts and getting sharpening system and steel set later or just buying both now. Haveing internet every few hours the past few days hasn't helped.

Thanks

[Stephen White]

Sorry we've confused you.

not hard to do right now. I am sure once I start using a lot of this stuff will com into focus. Thanks for the advice though. I see a bundle at rockler for $209 that looks pretty good:
Nova G3 Chuck and Bowl Turning Bundle, 1'' x 8 TPI

don't want to deal with a machinist though so want to make sure it will fit on my lathe directly.

[John K Jordan]

ha got some power,

OK that makes sense. Nova has a G3 chuck and bowl turning bundle with 1x8tpi. I want to start with wine stems and small under 12" bowls and this would get me started on bowls.
I have read several places that the bundles are good deals on getting some stuff included.
also is a supernove2 anniversary bundle, sounds like I need the 1x8 adapter for that one, will read on it as well
Thanks I feel like I am getting somewhere on the chuck system anyway. Still undecided on starting with a carbide set and inserts and getting sharpening system and steel set later or just buying both now. Haveing internet every few hours the past few days hasn't helped.

Thanks

Given the choice, I wouldn't buy the direct threaded chucks. I have one, a Nova Titan. For years the adapter version was all that I ever saw. Besides getting stuck with a chuck you cannot use if/when you change lathes some day, the direct threaded one I have does not have the flats needed to let you use a wrench to remove the chuck. I'm planning to machine some flats. I don't know if the other direct threaded models are built the same way.

JKJ

[Rusty Nesmith]

I am still fairly new. Been turning for 2 to 3 years. I started with a cheap set of HHS tools. I still haven’t used half of them. I bought some carbide tools and liked them better. A couple of weeks ago I bought a quality bowl gouge and use that most of the time now. To me nothing compares to a quality HHS tool.

[David Bassett]

... I see a bundle at rockler for $209 that looks pretty good:
Nova G3 Chuck and Bowl Turning Bundle, 1'' x 8 TPI ....

I haven't been convinced those Cole jaws are useful. Hopefully a more experienced turner can explain the pros and cons. I'll just note I've only noticed Cole jaws used in product demos and people demonstrating bowl turning all seem to use different solutions.

Typical bowl turning steps are face plate (on future inside) or between centers to shape outside of the bowl and create a tenon or recess at the base to clamp in a chuck. Then reverse the blank into a chuck to do the inside.


... don't want to deal with a machinist though so want to make sure it will fit on my lathe directly.

Oh, no way. You'd always get one that fits if it was available. I think I heard about that option when someone was trying to fit a chuck on a 40's or 50's Shopsmith. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it but I noticed it on the TeknaTool website and it was fresh in my mind.

[Thomas Wilson80]

Not sure about this exchange but I am trying to understand which chuck system is the right one for my Midi with zero thought to using it on any other one later. It seems like to G3 and SN2 are for bigger lathes and need an adapter to run on mine? So far the link from one of you guys to nova: NOVA CHUCK PRECISION MIDI DIRECT THREAD 1″ X 8TPI (SKU 48111 AND 71028)


is really the only reference I have found. My internet is up and down but trying to do more research. This product says it fits the full range of nova chuck accessories but still don't really get if it will fit my rikon 70-220


Any of those chucks will fit your lathe (direct thread 1''x8tpi or with a 1"x8tpi insert). The beauty of getting an insert type is that if you do ever upgrade lathes, you can use it on a larger lathe (with a new insert). If you are certain you won't be upgrading to a larger lathe then I would just buy the direct thread and if you ever do upgrade you can always sell your chucks fairly easily if in good condition).
I would not buy a chuck with tommy bars....they are not that much cheaper than the G3 and not worth it IMHO (I had one and ended up giving it away because i never wanted to use it).

Just looking at tools-plus.com, a lot of the G3 and SN2 chucks are out of stock though they do have the following, which is what I would consider if I were you:
G3 direct thread (no insert required) bundle (comes with extra sizes of jaws0 - $190 https://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-48293.html
G3 direct thread (no insert required) with only 1 set of jaws - $150 https://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-48291.html
G3 insert with one set of jaws (insert sold separately for around $30) - $140 https://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-48290.html
SN2 insert bundle (insert sold separately for around $30) - $220 https://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-23108.html
SN2 insert bundle (different jaws than 1st bundle; still need to purchase insert separately) - $240 https://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes-23245.html

There are lots of places to buy Nova chucks, I just have had good experiences with this site and have always found it to be the cheapest.
Good luck.
Tom

[David Bassett]

Given the choice, I wouldn't buy the direct threaded chucks. I have one, a Nova Titan. For years the adapter version was all that I ever saw. Besides getting stuck with a chuck you cannot use if/when you change lathes some day, the direct threaded one I have does not have the flats needed to let you use a wrench to remove the chuck. I'm planning to machine some flats. I don't know if the other direct threaded models are built the same way.

JKJ


John has a lot more experience than I do and makes a good point about wrench flats. (And I think he's in the SuperNova2 camp.) I only remember getting a chuck stuck once, but I appreciated being able to throw a wrench on it.





... I see a bundle at rockler for $209 that looks pretty good:
Nova G3 Chuck and Bowl Turning Bundle, 1'' x 8 TPI ....

I haven't been convinced those Cole jaws are useful. Hopefully a more experienced turner can explain the pros and cons. I'll just note I've only noticed Cole jaws used in product demos and people demonstrating bowl turning all seem to use different solutions.

Typical bowl turning steps are face plate (on future inside) or between centers to shape outside of the bowl and create a tenon or recess at the base to clamp in a chuck. Then reverse the blank into a chuck to do the inside.

I think e.g. this:

G3 Reversing 1"x8 Chuck - Value Bundle (https://www.packardwoodworks.com/113103R-VB.html) is a better deal on a G3 package.

JKJ, which jaws have you, and your students, found most useful when starting out?

[John K Jordan]

I haven't been convinced those Cole jaws are useful. Hopefully a more experienced turner can explain the pros and cons. I'll just note I've only noticed Cole jaws used in product demos and people demonstrating bowl turning all seem to use different solutions.
...

I bought Cole jaws a long time ago and dedicated a chuck to them. However, I rarely found them useful. Using them may limit the design options of the rim of the bowl. It's possible to crack the rim if using them in the expansion mode inside the rim. Tightening the jaws gently may not hold.

A few years ago I took the cole jaws off the chuck and never put them back on. I sometimes make a jam chuck if turning a bowl. More recently I've changed the way I do things which for most pieces eliminated the need to reverse the bowl/platter to clean up the bottom.

BTW, whether using cole jaws or a jam chuck or a vacuum chuck, I use a bunch of strips of tape to secure the piece if I don't plan on using the tailstock for support for the entire process.
This is the tape I like, it's NOT the same as the green painter's tape - this sticks far better and is pretty strong. I use it a lot in the shop and house. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Z4AY

JKJ

[Stephen White]

OK made a decision on chuck, went with the Nova 48293 pro-tek bundle. It is direct threaded but hoping I wont regret it. John makes a valid point on if it gets stuck but saw some positives as well in reviews. It sounds like if I get into this I will likely have more chucks so this ones seems to be a good start. Thomas mentioned it directly and it matches up with some of the other advice, righty tighty and reversible and comes with some extra jaws. Now back to the sharpening system, carbide and steel research if power holds out. Thanks for all the help everyone on the chuck choice.

[tom lucas]

I have a direct thread vicmarc. It has flats for a wrench, but no provision for a grub screw. So I have to be careful when spinning in reverse or it will come off. I don't think I'd ever buy direct thread again.

And I agree on the cole jaws. I've used mine exactly once. I wouldn't get the kit with those, for that reason, and because the nubs that come with it are junk. I replaced my nubs with one-way nub - much better. Others use cole jaws often.

[Stephen White]

no cole jaws in the pro-tek bundle, the 48293 replaces the 48246 and supposedly has all the old features and some new ones, the old features includes the anti release lock so I think its safe in reverse.



Anti-release spindle lock – Reversible
Ensures chuck will stay securely mounted on the lathe during forward and reverse turning applications

[tom lucas]

no cole jaws in the pro-tek bundle, the 48293 replaces the 48246 and supposedly has all the old features and some new ones, the old features includes the anti release lock so I think its safe in reverse.



Anti-release spindle lock – Reversible
Ensures chuck will stay securely mounted on the lathe during forward and reverse turning applications



I think that's a fancy term for "set screw". Mine has them, but I haven't needed to put the set screw in. My Nova's stay tight by themselves. I guess if you were sanding in reverse with some really coarse sand paper it might pull it loose. Now my Vicmarc, it'll come loose in a heartbeat. It's my favorite chuck but I do have to watch it.

[Stephen White]

Ok thanks to everyone here I have finalized the first round of tools. Going with a Sorby starter set, the 67HS, 3/4" Spindle Roughing Gouge, 3/8" Spindle Gouge, 3/8" Bowl Gouge, 3/4" Standard Skew Chisel, 1/8" Parting Tool and 1/2" Round Nose Scraper and a Simple Woodturning Tools Mid size carbide set.

The two of them, the G3 chuck bundle, drill chuck and arbor, wet sharpening system for the Sorbys all came in just under $900 with tax.

So all of this gear and the Rikon 70-220 lathe and stand all came in just under $2000 (about $1700 over my original HF plans :). Could have easily spent much less to get into turning but hopefully made some wise decisions so this setup will take me down the road for a bit. I think it will become a central part of my shop.

Thanks again to all of you for all the great advice.

edit: well decided to drop the $200 carbide set so I could beef up my sharpening system so will add the carbide set later. Just have to shut down the cost :)

.

[Earl McLain]

I wish this conversation had been happening as i was beginning a few years ago. Though it likely would not have saved me a dime!!

Had a clearance e-mail from CPO Outlets this morning, the Nova G3 Pro-Tek (insert-style) was listed at $90 with the 50 mm jaws. https://www.cpooutlets.com/nova-48290-12-piece-pro-tek-g3-insert-type-wood-turning-chuck-and-jaws-set/nvan48290.html I've already got the 1" x 8 tpi and 1 1/4" inserts--so for that money i picked one up. Thanks to a great comment earlier--i'm going to label the expand/contract directions with sharpie on my other chucks anyway--just because i always turn the wrong way anyway!!
Thanks,
earl

[Stephen White]

Just to update, had 2nd thoughts about getting the 6 tool Sorby set and decided to upgrade it to the 8 piece H6542. For $75 more it seems to be worth it.

[tom lucas]

Just to update, had 2nd thoughts about getting the 6 tool Sorby set and decided to upgrade it to the 8 piece H6542. For $75 more it seems to be worth it.
LOL. Well I like your enthusiasm for the vortex :)

[John K Jordan]

LOL. Well I like your enthusiasm for the vortex :)

There is no end in sight when you fall into justifying the next bigger and better thing. That's how I ended up with a 7' Baldwin concert grand with the German-made action instead of the low end 5' model I had decided to buy.

JKJ

[Stephen White]

LOL. Well I like your enthusiasm for the vortex :)

yeah I was watching videos of the different ones and wanted the 1/2 and the 1/4 spindle gauge and the other set just has a single 3/8. I get that I will likely end up using a few of these most of the time but I am going to try and make myself use all of them as much as possible the way they are intended and learn to shape and sharpen them all. What I don't want to to is end up using a few to do everything and never even learn about my other options.

[Rusty Nesmith]

You can sharpen the carbide cutters very easy with a credit card size diamond sharpener. They are only around $12.