Drawer/Cabinet construction?

[Andrew Wayland]

I know there have been countless discussions around this before, but I’m struggling to find exactly what I’m looking for.

I’ve been building Faceframe cabinets and drawers using my Kreg Jig exclusively. I built a custom bar, more than a few garage cabinets, some toy boxes, and recently custom closet shelves/cabinets.

Pocket holes have served me well all-along, (typically very fast assembly... limited clamping needed.... able to glue->screw and put aside while I start working on the next carcass), but I find myself always looking into other ways of doing things: The domino is drool-worthy for some reason.... then I start looking at dowel jigs (from amazon specials, to Triton machines, all the way to mafell options)... and who can ignore the router-table options (dovetail jigs, drawer bits, etc).

Has anybody here been in a similar position: wanting to move from pocket screws to different methods? If so: what did you go with? What kind of investment was required?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Andrew, I can't comment on moving away from pocket screws as I've never used them.

For frames and doors I use mortice and tenon or cope and stick type joints.

I've also used biscuits, I could see the usefulness of a Domino tool however.............Rod.

[Derek Cohen]

Andrew, if you want a real challenge, try mitred secret dovetails :)

Next - possibly equally difficult - are mitred through dovetails. I've done a spate of these this past year, and busy on one at present.

It begins like this ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet1_html_m6c77011.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet1_html_m1b46258.jpg

Looking like this currently ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_16d21aa 0.jpg

Very strong, very balanced, and traditional joinery for a tool cabinet.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_4f7d7d2 f.jpg

Scan down to "Underbench Cabinet": http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Alan Lightstone]

Beautiful piece, Derek. Drool worthy as usual.

[Dave Sabo]

There’s always a “better” way to do things.

It’s difficult to advise you because we don’t really know your scale, end goals, budget, and measuring stick.

Derek’s carcass is sweet , but better ? Depends. If the goal is to have something unique and command top dollar per box, yup. Winner , winner. If the goal is to quickly produce cabinets in a short cycle that will easily sell, then his design fails miserably.

You mention tools, but have you thought about your process ? Euro or frameless construction is waaaay more efficient. May or may not be “better”. A Hoffmann key machine can be useful for frames and moldings. There are a few different systems for attach8ng face frames to carcasses.

If all you really want is a new tool for cabinetry , then look no further than the mafell duo doweler. It will allow you join carcasses, frames, panels for glue up , and more importantly, drill 32mm system holes for shelves and drawers. That’s something domino can only dream of.

[Ron Citerone]

I use dadoes in my carcase sides 3/8 x3/8 and rabbet my shelves or web frames and shelves to match. On pieces with no front frame I use blind dadoes. Ocassionally I have routered dovetails into front and back for appearance, but generally not.

I have a dovetail jig for drawers in furniture.

[Robert Engel]

My personal experience with Domino 500: nice tool, but not the "game changer" I thought it would be. In fact, I plan to sell it.

Various reasons, the main one being try as I might I can never achieve the "perfect" alignment everyone seems to illustrate in their work. I've tried registering off the fence, the base, either way, I get better alignment on panel glue up with a biscuit joiner. Maybe the Domiplate is the way to go, but another $70 is not attractive to me.

I think you have to consider your work methods b/c a Domino is a relatively expensive tool sit in a box 98% of its life.

Re: pocket holes, the only thing I use them for is face frames, the occasional knock of shop drawer, etc.

Re: face frame cabinets, I abandoned them many years ago am entirely frameless. For built ins, and various types of furniture etc. I usually go face frame and most often use pocket holes, sometimes the domino, but truthfully only to justify owning it and I'm never happy until its sanded down.

[Jim Becker]

Pocket screws have been a part of my world for a long time. Domino is also part of that world, too. For cabinst work, I will readily employ butt joints with glue and screws, too, when the fasteners would be hidden. Whatever works for the job.

Drawers that I don't source from elsewhere have been built using dovetails, butt joints and screws and pocket screws. It depends upon the use and visibility requirements.

[Lisa Starr]

My favorite method is dowels. I have the Jessem Doweling Jig with 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" plates. It set me back around $200.00, but it is my favorite way to assemble both cabinet carcases and face frames. With a bit of care, you can easily align all the parts, drill for dowels and dry fit the whole assembly. When everything meets your requirements, you can glue up knowing everything will go right back together with the same fit.

[Alan Gage]

For regular drawers with applied drawer fronts and ball bearing slides I like the rabbet and groove for drawer front to side joints. The rear is just butt jointed. Joints are glued and tacked with 18 gauge nails. Then the back slid in and stapled into place and the drawer set aside to dry. No clamping. Everything can be easily cut on the table saw.

All the carcasses (plywood) I've done have had hidden sides (either because of wall, appliance, or applied end panel) and those I butt joint and glue after first tacking them in place with a couple 15 gauge nails to hold things in place while I screw.

Alan

[Edwin Santos]

Andrew, if you want a real challenge, try mitred secret dovetails :)


Regards from Perth

Derek

Pray tell good sir, what are mitered secret dovetails?
Are the dovetails visible at all?

I did a mitered dovetail project last year, but this sounds mysterious enough for Hercule Poirot!

[Dave Sabo]

Various reasons, the main one being try as I might I can never achieve the "perfect" alignment everyone seems to illustrate in their work. I've tried registering off the fence, the base, either way, I get better alignment on panel glue up with a biscuit joiner. Maybe the Domiplate is the way to go, but another $70 is not attractive to me.

it possible /probable your machine is defective. It’s been known to happen.

[Derek Cohen]

Pray tell good sir, what are mitered secret dovetails?
Are the dovetails visible at all?

I did a mitered dovetail project last year, but this sounds mysterious enough for Hercule Poirot!

Edwin, from the outside, it looks like a simple mitred joint. But on the inside lie dovetails.

https://i.postimg.cc/kG4LZNmn/Secret-DTs-1-main.png

https://i.postimg.cc/ZnMXh9b6/mitred-dovetail-joint.jpg

And an intro to a video by David Charlesworth ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCK_TsAlIxY&ab_channel=Lie-NielsenToolworks

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Wayland]

Edwin, from the outside, it looks like a simple mitred joint. But on the inside lie dovetails.

https://i.postimg.cc/kG4LZNmn/Secret-DTs-1-main.png

https://i.postimg.cc/ZnMXh9b6/mitred-dovetail-joint.jpg

And an intro to a video by David Charlesworth ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCK_TsAlIxY&ab_channel=Lie-NielsenToolworks

Regards from Perth

Derek

I think I need to perfect a few dozen techniques before I jump into that. Very Very impressive though!

[lowell holmes]

I use pocket screws or a dowel jig, according to the mood I am in. Dowels are hidden and look better,

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211US739G0&p=dowel+jig

[Bruce Wrenn]

I've done pocket screws (quickest,), rabbet and pinned, locking rabbet, dovetails, butt and pinned, all with glue. All work well. You have to decide if you are building drawers for function, or vanity

[Edwin Santos]

Edwin, from the outside, it looks like a simple mitred joint. But on the inside lie dovetails.

https://i.postimg.cc/kG4LZNmn/Secret-DTs-1-main.png




Regards from Perth

Derek

Ah, thank you for explaining, I learned something new from you Derek. Impressive in some respects, but I can't see myself ever choosing to do something like this, at least of my own free will.
However, absent from your list above is the half blind mitered dovetail, which is a very nice technique I can get behind.
Since the subject of mitered dovetails has come up, I will try to reciprocate and post a recent project in the Projects sub-forum that illustrates it in a waterfall table. Thanks

[Derek Cohen]

Post the pics here, Edwin - it keeps the thread together. I'd love to see your half-blind waterfall table.

I built a waterfall entry hall table as wedding gift for a niece last year. In Fiddleback Jarrah ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANieceFinal2_html_m43c0606b.jpg

Lipped half-blind drawers ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANieceFinal2_html_6d366d0d.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edwin Santos]

Post the pics here, Edwin - it keeps the thread together. I'd love to see your half-blind waterfall table.

I built a waterfall entry hall table as wedding gift for a niece last year. In Fiddleback Jarrah ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,
I already posted my half blind dovetail table in the Projects forum; you can see it here:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?289598-Half-Blind-mitered-dovetail-hallway-table

I hope you like it.
Yours is a lovely post modern table, I'm sure your niece was thrilled. Many thanks

[Derek Cohen]

https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=451933&d=1613141399

Edwin, that is superb! I love the angles you create, and overall it has an interesting complexity that still manages to remain balanced. I agree that the waterfall works better with the half-blind dovetail.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Wayland]

Those Intelligent Fixings Peanuts are an interesting proposition too...

I just ordered some Maple this weekend and was blown away by the price. I think I’ll be sticking with Plywood for the foreseeable future. I’m thinking I MAY invest in a drawer lock router bit (It seems like it’d work okay with Plywood drawers and cabinet carcasses...): although after watching some videos, they appear to be quite fiddly too...

[Jim Becker]

You can do the equivalent of the drawer lock with your table saw with a little careful planning, but the router tooling certainly has a nice appeal to it.