wood turning

[Stephen White]

I am getting a lathe to learn on.

I have a tendency to shoot high financially but thinking of an inexpensive benchtop to start
Would appreciate any advice. I started to get a Jet but it was almost a grand after shipping and tax and if I do that then that's my lathe for the foreseeable future. By contrast HF has a 12/34 3/4 HP on a stand for $400 and a benchtop 12x15 for $225. Do any of you that use these have both a bench top and a larger one or would you recommend just getting a larger one from the start?

[Don Stephan]

My sincere suggestion is to look for a turner near you willing to serve as a mentor for a few hours on their lathe. A bigger lathe can turn smaller items, but the converse is not true. Often see posts on turning forums of people buying a 2nd or sometimes a 3rd lathe to be able to turn longer table legs or larger diameter bowls, or both.

But certainly a benchtop can provide some experience working on a lathe.

The next question will be how much to spend on lathe tools - inexpensive tools need sharpening more often.

Which leads to the third question, how to sharpen.

All can be expensive.

Perhaps you can find a two day or one week course near you that can provide a more in depth experience. The "hobby" is expensive when everything is added together.

[Thomas Wilson80]

I had the small HF lathe and then upgraded to a used jet 1014....the difference in quality and smoothness was very very noticeable. I would look for used quality lathes on Craigslist/Facebook mktplace. Depending on where you live you might find one relatively quickly (fot better luck you could contact the local club and ask if anyone is selling).
Good luck.
Tom

[John K Jordan]

The only good reason I know to get a cheap lathe is if someone is really not sure that they will be interested in turning for the long run. Don's suggestion is excellent. I've had beginners come to my shop and after spending time on some training sessions and learning the basics some did well and were happy with the experience but might never take up turning, while others came back over and over, jumping in and acquiring a lathe of their own as soon as possible. Not only will a mentor teach you the basics, you will learn about different tools (and how to sharpen them) before spending a bundle on expensive things you might not use much.

Without the chance to get some experience on someone's lathe first, I'd recommend getting a used lathe, possibly an older one. Any lathe will let you turn wood and see if turning is for you. If you decide it's not, you can probably sell a used one for about what you paid for it.

If you can't find a teacher/mentor or a class right away (this pandemic has limited things) another thing to do is join a local woodturning club. Many clubs are still not meeting personally but some, like the one in Knoxville, have online zoom meetings with demonstrations, questions and answers, etc. A club can put you in touch with people you can call and some which can provide wood, often free.

If you are a visual learner there are youtube videos. The problem is some are BAD and some are REALLY BAD but how would you know? One way is to join the AAW (American Association of Woodturners) which provides a portal to the best videos, videos determined not only to be useful but teach safe techniques. The AAW also has tremendous online printed teaching resources for beginners available to members. There may still be trial memberships available.

If you are a reader, consider some books. I personally got a good start on woodturning from two books, Fundamentals of Woodturning by Mike Darlow and Turning Wood by Richard Raffan. In my opinion a good book is far better than a video - it can hold so much more information and easily explain the tradeoffs between multiple options. About twenty years later my woodturning library is overflowing!

BTW, I started with the absolute worst lathe in the world. It wasn't long before I decided I liked woodturning so gave the first one away and spent a couple of thousand on a far, far better lathe. Sometime after that I spent twice that much and got an even better lathe. It's not all about the diameter or length of the piece the lathe can handle, to me it's more the smoothness, the controls, the variable speed and reverse, the more massive weight, and the sturdiness of things like the headstock spindle and bearings, the banjo and tailstock, locking levers, and more. But although the lathe I use now is a real dream to use, I would NOT recommend someone new to turning go buy one before he was certain to be in it for the long haul. If money is not a problem, then by all means get the better one to start with!

JKJ

[tom lucas]

The advice already given is spot-on. It you really want to do this hobby, be forewarned, it's not cheap. I would suggest maybe the Rikon 70-220 VSR as a lot of bang for the buck. Anything cheaper/smaller and you are likely not going to be satisfied. Then chisels. A basic set might be 3/8" spindle gouge, 1/2" bowl gouge, 1/8" parting tool, and either a spindle roughing gouge or a 1" skew. So that's 4 tools that you'll need to spend $250 or more on. Then you need to sharpen: Grinder with AO wheels ~$200. The cheaper the chisels the more time you'll spend sharpening. So that's the bare minimum. You can opt for carbide tools and you can forgo the grinder, but most would say the carbides don't leave as nice a finish and are somewhat "limiting". So about $1000 minimum price of entry......and then if you really like this hobby you'll be in a few $thousand more at some point.

A good "forever" entry-level lathe is the new Powermatic 2014. It has the advantage of running on 110V power. Another nice tabletop is the Harvey T-40. Or the Laguna 15/24. These lathes are ~$1800 and are considered "affordable". There are Novas in this price range too. Then next step up would be Laguna 18/36 or Grizzly G0766 at ~$2500. Both a lot of lathe for the money. Then the Powermatic 3520 and Harvey T60 at ~$4000. Then to the Cadillac's: Robust, One-way, Vicmarc, Powermatic 4224. These are more than $6000.

There are Jet lathes in most of these categories too.

Eventually you'll want more chisels, chucks, faceplates, toolrests, and on and on. Swirl.....

[James Tibbetts]

Finding a local turner and or club would be an excellent starting point. Check out your local Craigslist also.

[Stephen White]

Lots of great advice, thanks! John touched on why I will likely get a smaller benchtop to start as I really don't know if wood turning is going to be part of the routine or not. 2k for the saw and 2k for the drum sander made sense because they were upgrades to tools that get used from project to project. The CNC covered a need. Wood turning is another skill to develop and then produce a product from that.

My shop is pottery and wood so I am adding small items that I take to shows along side our pottery. Fortunately the easier wood working skills to obtain also produce items that people like to buy at shows, serving boards, cutting boards, currently adding frames for hand pressed/painted art tiles and then the next idea is to add small turned items such as bowls, ring holders, pens etc. I've done a few dozen weekend art shows over the last decade and size does matter :) The shows themselves are a blast but the setup and tear down can be a real pain and keeping it simple is a big deal. It helps that I like batching stuff. Throwing 50 coffee mugs on the wheel and then pushing them through the process to final glazing is something I enjoy. Lots of folks want to do new one off projects and that's really not my thing. But I am trying to build a viable 2nd act for when I stop doing the day job so its a mix of doing what I enjoy and making money.

I really appreciate the input. I'm going to bump it up a bit from the really cheap ones and move to the $500 range. I read some good reviews this morning on the shop fox W1836 bench top and the Jet 1015 (I have a Jet drum 18-26 Sander and like it) and the Rikon 70-100 (smaller version of Toms suggestion) but the Jet and Rikon does not have digital and I really want that as a beginner. These are all $500ish so if I need to move on to a more expensive one for better build or additional size or feature it sure seems likely I could get a couple hundred back on the used market or even just keep the benchtop around as a backup or for someone else to bang around on in the shop with me and if turning isn't my thing then its a less expensive dust collector.

[Richard Coers]

The danger of testing the waters of turning enjoyment on a cheap little lathe, it that turning on a cheap little lathe is not fun for ANYONE. Unless of course if your goal is to turn pens, then anything that spins will work. If you are tempted by bowls, platters, and hollow forms, the imbalance and fine cuts needed to prevent stalling will put off nearly anyone. I suggest you look for an old Delta floor model. Then you have a machine that can be tested with some weight and you will be able to sell it for what you paid for it. You'll instantly loose money on the HF lathe the minute you leave the door. Old American machinery is so much better than new cheap Chinese. And if your intent is just to test the hobby, what's the hurry?

[Reed Gray]

Another reason to find the nearest club is that you may be able to find a 'package' deal where some one is getting out of turning and you may be able to get lathe and accessories much cheaper than buying new. I would take the Jet over HF. Quality can make a huge difference in enjoyment, and it also makes for better resale value if you want to get out of it.

robo hippy

[tom lucas]

My experience as a long-time flat work guy who is still fairly new to turning, is this. Turning is more artful than flat work. It is an intimate dance between wood, tools, and human. So if the artful hand is your thing (I'm guessing so if you do pottery), then it might be something you will like, perhaps even addictive as it has been for many of us. And turning projects usually are completed much faster than other ww forms. So gratifications comes faster.

On the other hand, I know several wood workers that don't care for turning because of the mess. A lot more shaving on the human than any other woodworking form, and quite the mess on the floor while making a project. At first the mess bothered me, but after a while you come to grips with it and just vacuum it up when the cutting is done.

It also sounds like you want to some limited "production" turning. This is another reason to get as powerful a lathe as you can. Underpowered lathes will slow you down and may even frustrate you to the point of not doing it. Once you get proficient, you can quickly turn out small projects in just minutes if you have a lathe that can keep up. Stuart Batty says he can turn a decent sized bowl from blank to ready for finish in 11 minutes. But then that is Stuart Batty.

I don't understand why lathes are so much more money than other ww equipment. Other tools seem far more complicated, but that is the way it is. So you have to re-calibrate your cost-benefit balancing a bit with wood turning.

Another thing to keep in mind is spindle size. Most of the Midis are 1" but the bigger lathes are 1-1/4". Why do you care? Because accessories are made to a specific spindle size. Yes you can use adapters to fit on to the other. But they are less than ideal as they put more strain on your head stock, which is most important the smaller the lathe. So if you move up or down in spindle size, you may be buying new accessories too. I would like a second lathe, but I don't want to buy a whole new set of accessories. I would want one with 8-1/4" spindle. That really drives up the cost for Midis as there are only a few bench-top options in that size.

Pay once, cry once is sound advise. Going to a club and connecting with fellow turners and trying big and small lathes is by far the best thing you can do before you buy. Turners are usually glad to share their time and experiences with newbees.

[David Walser]

Stephen -- You've received a lot of good advice. If you search this forum, you'll see there are a lot of threads on the topic of which lathe to buy. I'll second the recommendation of Rikon's midi-lathe. It's well made and delivers a lot of capability and features for a fair price. There are other good lathes in that size range that are worth a look.

Let me address the to Harbor Freight lathes you mentioned: I started turning with the larger of the two you mentioned (SKU# 34706). IIRC, I paid less than $120 for it back in 2002 or 2003. I still have it and it has served me well. Still, I would NOT recommend it as anyone's first lathe. The lathe is a clone of an old Jet design (many of the parts are interchangeable). It was and is a decent lathe for spindle turning. With it's pivoting headstock, it can be used for smallish bowls and platters. However, that's NOT its strength. The same was true of the Jet. The lowest speed of the lathe is too fast for larger, out-of-balance blanks. Today, there are several much better lathes available for not a whole lot more money. Time has simply passed by the lathe's design. My lathe has been relegated to a designated buffing station. I also use it, very rarely, for longer spindles. For these tasks, the lathe is in it's sweet spot and performs well. However, a newer design would also handle these tasks and provide much more capabilities in other areas, too. Just say no to this lathe.

I wasn't aware HF made a 12 x 15 lathe. Currently, it's website only mentions a 10 x 18 mini-lathe. The one currently on their website is also a clone of an older Jet design. The design is old. The only way to change speeds is to move the belt from one pulley to another -- which gets tiring very fast. Their are lots of clones of this Jet design, many have variable speed. Of the clones, the HF version was never considered towards the top in terms of quality. Again, this is a HF lathe to avoid.

I know a lot of people have and like these lathes from HF. As I said, I have one and I like it. But, if I were buying a lathe today, even given a tight budget, it would not be one of these. I'd either find a quality used lathe or a more recently designed new lathe. The HF lathes are clones of designs that were old in 2000. A lot of lathes have been designed, made, and sold since then. Ignoring quality issues, there is no reason to put up with outdated designs in 2021.

[Stephen White]

I wasn't aware HF made a 12 x 15 lathe. Currently, it's website only mentions a 10 x 18 mini-lathe. The one currently on their website is also a clone of an older Jet design. The design is old. The only way to change speeds is to move the belt from one pulley to another -- which gets tiring very fast. Their are lots of clones of this Jet design, many have variable speed. Of the clones, the HF version was never considered towards the top in terms of quality. Again, this is a HF lathe to avoid.


Whoops yeah it is a 10x18. Yeah I am passing on the HF options. Had figured at a couple hundred bucks it would be a good intro but the input here had convinced me to go a bit more so I am looking at the shop fox W1836, Jet 1015 and Rikon 70-100. Also read a good review on the Nova Comet II.

Actually everyone has pretty much convinced me of the value of just going with a larger more expensive lathe to start but I am crammed into a 2 1/2 car garage that is already full of WW and Pottery equipment and I just spent some time trying to figure out if I can work in a larger lathe and I think the answer really is no so I think I am going to go ahead with a Midi but all of you folks have made me stop and put more thought into the purchase and that's what's so great about this forum. I was impulsively going to go grab a cheap one and some cheap tools for a few hundred total and that sounds like it would be counterproductive.

I'm going to read reviews on all the Midi's mentioned here and pick one of those but it sounds like if I get into this a larger more expensive one is in my future.

[Stephen White]

ha I just realized they moved this from the general tool section to the turners section. I must sound sacrilegious to you folks talking about cheap lathes. Every once in a while someone on one of the main pottery threads I frequent talks about buying a cheap pottery wheel to get started with. Absurd, just get one of the 2k wheels and be done with it, why screw around with some cheap wheel that will probably just make throwing pottery harder, right?

[David Walser]

...I must sound sacrilegious to you folks talking about cheap lathes. Every once in a while someone on one of the main pottery threads I frequent talks about buying a cheap pottery wheel to get started with. ...

No, you didn't sound sacrilegious. We get into these 'which lathe' questions a lot. I think everyone understands the desire to save some cash while getting a tool that will get the job done. But, how is someone just getting into turning to know what lathes might serve for a given purpose? I certainly didn't. Several people on this board were recommending "the good HF lathe" (as opposed to the other HF lathe), so I got one. And, it worked well for me. Just not for bowls and such. At the time, I thought the lathe was fine for bowls and believed I just needed more practice. It wasn't until I took a 5-day class at Craft Supplies USA, that I realized it wasn't me, it was the lathe!

I think you've made a wise decision. The price difference between "the good HF lathe" and a midi-lathe of a more modern design no longer justifies buying the HF. At least, it doesn't to me. Let's say someone was still making a 1920's era car and selling them, new, for less than you could buy a new 2021 model that carried the same number of people. Why would you? Sure, the 1920's design may have been state of the art back then and the car may have been the best car in the world in its day, but it doesn't even have hydraulic brakes!

[John K Jordan]

...
My shop is pottery and wood so I am adding small items that I take to shows along side our pottery....

Excellent! People I know that work in both pottery and wood are quite good with form. A friend very near me has a great pottery studio with three kilns and a small wood shop off the side. He hasn't don't much wood working for some years but recently started woodturning again. His past woodturning was pretty varied, many bowls, but in starting again last week he turned three legs and made a stool. He is inspired by nature and for the legs he thought of the kelp he saw when scuba diving in the pacific. He's a member of the Southern Highlands guild and I think he did used to display woodturnings along with his pottery.

In case you are interested, there are some things on his web site. There is a short video we shot of raku pieces coming out of the kiln but I think you need quicktime to play it. AFAIK, Paul makes the largest raku-fired pottery in the world. (Sorry if I posted this earlier - I'm elderly and feeble minded...)
http://www.paulmenchhofer.com/gallery.html
451791
Pics in the workshop section give a hint of the scale of some pieces. I am fortunate to have one of his smallish pieces in my piano room.
http://www.paulmenchhofer.com/workshop.html

JKJ

[Stephen White]

Excellent! People I know that work in both pottery and wood are quite good with form. A friend very near me has a great pottery studio with three kilns and a small wood shop off the side. He hasn't don't much wood working for some years but recently started woodturning again. His past woodturning was pretty varied, many bowls, but in starting again last week he turned three legs and made a stool. He is inspired by nature and for the legs he thought of the kelp he saw when scuba diving in the pacific. He's a member of the Southern Highlands guild and I think he did used to display woodturnings along with his pottery.

In case you are interested, there are some things on his web site. There is a short video we shot of raku pieces coming out of the kiln but I think you need quicktime to play it. AFAIK, Paul makes the largest raku-fired pottery in the world. (Sorry if I posted this earlier - I'm elderly and feeble minded...)
http://www.paulmenchhofer.com/gallery.html
451791
Pics in the workshop section give a hint of the scale of some pieces. I am fortunate to have one of his smallish pieces in my piano room.
http://www.paulmenchhofer.com/workshop.html

JKJ

Very nice work! Ya know its all a journey, right? The pandemic has probably changed more than one shop this year. After 10 years of mostly utilitarian pottery we are reworking our priorities and work to more aim toward our interest. We will still do some coffee mugs, bowls, platters etc but only the ones that hit that mark with more emphasis on hand painting and sgraffito. Our main focus though is art tiles blended with wood. Looking forward to summer shows after a year off from them so we can see how people like what we have done. Since I enjoy working on a pottery wheel I think I will also enjoy turning. I'm much more into enjoying process than getting hung up on individual items so batching I think is fun. Some of the post mentioned pens and smallish bowls almost as a negative of a small Midi but really that's probably on mark for what my turned items will be. Flat WW will be small boxes with art tile lids, charcuterie boards with embedded art tiles and custom frames for art tiles. We also have a few clock and mirrors planned that mix the two mediums. Art tiles are also used for back splashes and showers.

Fun times. I'm 60 and program computers for a living so this is all about my 2nd act moving away from that and building a business for both money and enjoyment. Not having to pay the bills with earnings will mean a less stressful business. There was a time 35-40 years ago as a young applications programmer that I felt that way about tech but after almost 4 decades I'm ready to spend my days moving around a studio and not sitting in front of a screen.

[tom lucas]

Very nice work! Ya know its all a journey, right? The pandemic has probably changed more than one shop this year. After 10 years of mostly utilitarian pottery we are reworking our priorities and work to more aim toward our interest. We will still do some coffee mugs, bowls, platters etc but only the ones that hit that mark with more emphasis on hand painting and sgraffito. Our main focus though is art tiles blended with wood. Looking forward to summer shows after a year off from them so we can see how people like what we have done. Since I enjoy working on a pottery wheel I think I will also enjoy turning. I'm much more into enjoying process than getting hung up on individual items so batching I think is fun. Some of the post mentioned pens and smallish bowls almost as a negative of a small Midi but really that's probably on mark for what my turned items will be. Flat WW will be small boxes with art tile lids, charcuterie boards with embedded art tiles and custom frames for art tiles. We also have a few clock and mirrors planned that mix the two mediums. Art tiles are also used for back splashes and showers.

Fun times. I'm 60 and program computers for a living so this is all about my 2nd act moving away from that and building a business for both money and enjoyment. Not having to pay the bills with earnings will mean a less stressful business. There was a time 35-40 years ago as a young applications programmer that I felt that way about tech but after almost 4 decades I'm ready to spend my days moving around a studio and not sitting in front of a screen.

I hear ya. I'm so ready to give up this desk job. But alas, 4 more years....

If you get a lathe then you can start thinking about different circular/round ceramics that maybe weren't so practical with flat/square-cornered ww.

[David Walser]

... Some of the post mentioned pens and smallish bowls almost as a negative of a small Midi but really that's probably on mark for what my turned items will be. ...

I hope none of what I wrote gave you that impression. When considering different sizes of lathes, it's important to understand their relative advantages and disadvantages. A midi-lathe has less capacity than a full-size lathe. You can turn anything on a full-size lathe that you can turn on a mini or midi. The opposite is not true. So, in that sense, a full-size lathe offers more flexibility in the kinds of things that can be turned. On the other hand, a full-size lathe takes up more room, is more difficult to move, often requires 240v power, and generally costs more than a smaller lathe of the same quality. (And, many people find smaller lathes to be less intimidating to use.) That's a lot to give up just to be able to turn a large bowl! Many turners who have a full-size lathe also own a mini or midi. Often, they buy the smaller lathe after owning a full-size lathe. So, is one better than another? Better for some situations, but not better overall. Given your plans and the amount of space available in your shop, it sounds like a midi is a wise choice.

Having said that, there is NOTHING wrong with turning pens and smaller items. Like a lot of turners, after I got a full-size lathe, I wanted to turn large bowls. Very quickly, I got my fill of such. I find turning smaller things -- boxes, Christmas ornaments, baby rattles, tool handles, spheres, eggs, and the occasional pen, more enjoyable than turning large bowls and platters. I use my full-size lathe for these small items. Knowing that I would occasionally turn larger items, a full-size lathe makes sense for me.

Given your desire to combine your ceramic and woodworking talents, take a look at turning wooden boxes. You could easily inlay a decorative tile in the lid of such a box. Or, make a honey pot on your wheel and turn a lid and a honey dipper to match. There are lots of opportunities for you to combine your talents in ways that would make your offerings stand-out from the crowd at a busy art show. (Let's hope we'll soon be able to hold such gatherings!)

[John K Jordan]

Very nice work! Ya know its all a journey, right? The pandemic has probably changed more than one shop this year. After 10 years of mostly utilitarian pottery we are reworking our priorities and work to more aim toward our interest. We will still do some coffee mugs, bowls, platters etc but only the ones that hit that mark with more emphasis on hand painting and sgraffito. Our main focus though is art tiles blended with wood. Looking forward to summer shows after a year off from them so we can see how people like what we have done. Since I enjoy working on a pottery wheel I think I will also enjoy turning. I'm much more into enjoying process than getting hung up on individual items so batching I think is fun. Some of the post mentioned pens and smallish bowls almost as a negative of a small Midi but really that's probably on mark for what my turned items will be. Flat WW will be small boxes with art tile lids, charcuterie boards with embedded art tiles and custom frames for art tiles. We also have a few clock and mirrors planned that mix the two mediums. Art tiles are also used for back splashes and showers.

Fun times. I'm 60 and program computers for a living so this is all about my 2nd act moving away from that and building a business for both money and enjoyment. Not having to pay the bills with earnings will mean a less stressful business. There was a time 35-40 years ago as a young applications programmer that I felt that way about tech but after almost 4 decades I'm ready to spend my days moving around a studio and not sitting in front of a screen.

Paul used to do all utilitarian, then started making fancy teapots, jugs with threaded lids, big porcelain, then got wild with raku. Somewhere in the middle he went to work doing research with the metals and ceramics division at the Lab and "acquired" something like 14 patents. (He's retired now too.)

I very much understand the movement movement!

I developed software for half my career at the govnmt Lab then when my wrists gave out switched to sci/tech 3D modeling/animation/video. After 30 years at the Lab I retired in '06 at age 56 and traded my computer studio for a farm - I get SO much motion every single day now and love it, hauling hay, herding peacocks, exercising horses, sawmilling, caring for the llamas, playing with the beehives, clearing brush, processing turning blanks. I highly recommend retirement, the earlier the better. Nothing wrong with making the break into somewhat of a career move, though.

My home studio, then and now :)

451801

451802

BTW, one collaboration I want to do involves combining ceramic pots with turned/carved wood. We have to work out some details but the ideas are evolving.

JKJ

[Stephen White]

ha, living the life! Ya know everyone has their dream right? I used to think farm now its back to an acre not far out of town. Sometimes (usually after yard work) its a condo with an in town shop :)

[Stephen White]

prob 4 for me too but after 62 maybe...

[Stephen White]

ya know not sure why I got that impression from any post really. Everyone was pretty spot on saying match to what you are doing. I probably just took it that way. My hybred shop is getting pretty packed. We are hoping to build and move to our retirement home in the next few years and a nice large 2000sf shop is in the plans and then I will have a dedicated 7-800' just for WW and can go large if I want too but might just enjoy staying small.

Will definitely make a small turned box one of my first projects. Just assumed my art tile boxes would be flat ww. A lathe is going to open up all kinds of possibilities! Yeah the honey pot stick and top was is on the list. Hopefully late summer/fall the shows will start back up. I am looking now for ones to sign up for.

[Reed Gray]

As far as lathe sizes go, to me, a mini lathe is 12 inch max diameter, the midi lathes are the 18 inch and under (there are some 14 and 16 inch lathes), and the full sized ones are 20 inches and over.

Since you are already doing shows, the wood will be a good add in. I had been selling custom hacky sacks and juggle balls for 12 or so years before I got my first lathe. Have fun!

robo hippy

[Stephen White]

OK after hours of surfing and listening to everyone on this thread and reading dozens of reviews I have decided on the Rikon. The 70-220 seems like the way to go but kind of torn because I have limited space and the 70-150 is very close in all specs but a little lighter and smaller and I am tempted. The price is only $50 difference so that's not a reason to go one way or the other.

Anyone here use either of these?

[David Walser]

I've NOT used both lathes. However, if I had to choose one over the other, I'd go with the 70-220VSR rather than the 70-150VSR. The larger of the two has 1/2" additional swing and 3.5" of additional room between centers. More importantly, it weighs 20lbs more and has a higher maximum RPM -- 3,850 v. 3,200. Weight is your friend, except when you're moving the lathe. And, for very small items, higher turning speed is, generally, better. I would think that any space large enough for you to use the smaller lathe would be large enough for you to use the other. However, that extra 3.5" between centers may come in handy when and if you start turning hollow forms. Having said that, I would think either one would serve you well.

Good luck with your purchase.

[Stephen White]

all good points so I pulled the trigger, thanks!

[Stephen White]

I often can't tell exactly where my reply's end up in relation to everyone's post but trying to have this at the bottom.

Thanks to everyone for their help on this! I went for the Rikon 70-220. I got free shipping so $760 to my door after tax. More than I was initially planning but many of you made good points on starting with a quality tool and this one was recommended by several here and keeps it smaller with a benchtop to start and its expandable with extension if I want to increase the length.

[tom lucas]

For the money you wanted to spend, I think you made a good choice. It should serve you well.

[Stephen White]

Well I just dropped $200 on the Rikon stand so up to $960 and so it goes. My wife is always amused at me. A ago week I'm talking about learning wood turning with a couple hundred buck HF lathe and a $50 chisel set and a week later I'm a grand in and counting. Now I am off to probably drop a few hundred on some super nice turning chisel set and probably a couple hundred on a chuck bundle and sharpening stone.

Good times!

[tom lucas]

Well I just dropped $200 on the Rikon stand so up to $960 and so it goes. My wife is always amused at me. A ago week I'm talking about learning wood turning with a couple hundred buck HF lathe and a $50 chisel set and a week later I'm a grand in and counting. Now I am off to probably drop a few hundred on some super nice turning chisel set and probably a couple hundred on a chuck bundle and sharpening stone.

Good times!

You are just getting started....the money vortex begins.