Help with 3-phase jointer wiring

[David Miller]

I recently acquired a Griggio PF430 jointer. It is three phase and I'll be powering it with a VFD. The gentleman that I purchased it from said that besides the three phase power it also used 110V, perhaps for a starter? He wasn't sure of the details because his electrician took care of the hookup. I've attached a picture of the terminal block for the power. I think the one screw broke off when it was removed from service? Does anyone have suggestions on the wiring?

Thanks,
Dave

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[Warren Lake]

have a 500 and it starts in Delta then switches to Wye I think. Not sure my terminal block would be the same in case anyone has worked on the motor and use a Roto so the stakes go up. If you post a wiring diagram for it there are a number of smart people here. These were the wires on it but it was in a commercial shop 3 phase so no concerns other than direction of travel.

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[Stan Coryell]

Well, I deleted my post trying to edit it. Here goes.

I assumed the OP's picture was of the motor. At second look it's not. What are the terminals marked? L1, L2, L3, and N?


Post pictures or any other information you have.
Motor nameplate
Machine nameplate
Wiring skematic
Control cabinet

Delta/ Wye motors:
Always have at least six leads (3 wires for each set of windings)
Always have a start circuit, usually time controlled. This would include an extra contactor and the motor starter.

Warren,
How many wires go to your motor?

[Bohdan Drozdowskyj]

If your motor is delta connected, and the right voltage rating, the VFD goes directly to the motor windings and all of the control (starting/stoping/speed etc) is via the VFD.

[Warren Lake]

Stan I didnt have the cover off on the motor so not sure. Im not 100 percent sure its the original motor but likely,. Cover has been off one end where the fan is and see it was damaged so its been out before.

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[Jared Sankovich]

Stan I didnt have the cover off on the motor so not sure. Im not 100 percent sure its the original motor but likely,. Cover has been off one end where the fan is and see it was damaged so its been out before.

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That V 550 stamped there is a concern. Was the original owner running it on 240v 3ph?

The vfd is connected directly to the motor, bypassing the contactors and terminal block.

[Mark Hennebury]

Jared, Warren is in Canada; 550, 575 and 600 volts are common 3phase industrial motor voltages here.


That V 550 stamped there is a concern. Was the original owner running it on 240v 3ph?

The vfd is connected directly to the motor, bypassing the contactors and terminal block.

[David Miller]

Thanks for all the replies. The terminals in the picture that I posted are in a box on the back of the machine. I've attached a picture of the motor and the control panel.

The jointer is setup for 220V three-phase operation but I don't know if it is delta or wye.

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[Jared Sankovich]

Jared, Warren is in Canada; 550, 575 and 600 volts are common 3phase industrial motor voltages here.

Sorry for adding confusion. It would help if I paid more attention to who made the post..lol.

[Richard Baxter]

Your motor is Delta only. For Wye Delta you need three contactors and a timer to switch between Wye and Delta. You only have one contactor, one overload and a three wire motor. Your machine is too small for a Wye Delta starting circuit.

[Bill Dufour]

Green with a yellow stripe should be ground. Confirm with a meter to the machine bare metal, like a screwhead near the terminal block.
If it has 120 volt the white wire may be the incoming neutral,. All the other colors will be the three phases. Confirm by checking ohms between each. They should all be the same. Neutral will be different .
Since it is broken you can wire nut the blue and white wire together if there is room.
I am not really sure if European neutral is the same meaning as USA. I think they use only three phase.
Bil lD

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/reference/chpt-2/wiring-color-codes/

[David Miller]

Ok, I think the three black/brown (is one of them grey?) wires are the three phases for the motor. The blue is likely neutral and the green is ground. So do I wire directly from the VFD to the motor like Jared mentioned above?

-Dave

[Jared Sankovich]

Ok, I think the three black/brown (is one of them grey?) wires are the three phases for the motor. The blue is likely neutral and the green is ground. So do I wire directly from the VFD to the motor like Jared mentioned above?

-Dave

The vfd must be connected directly to the motor. Any disconnect under power will smoke the vfd. You will bypass all the contactors and run the original start/run and stop switch to the low voltage control terminals on the vfd.

You may need to program the vfd for 3 wire control as well.

What model vfd?

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for all the replies. The terminals in the picture that I posted are in a box on the back of the machine. I've attached a picture of the motor and the control panel.

The jointer is setup for 220V three-phase operation but I don't know if it is delta or wye.

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Looking in the motor connection box will tell you.

Delta will have three incoming leads with 2 motor wires per lead.

Wye will have 3 incoming leads with one motor wire per lead and 3 wires that are connected together and to nothing else...Rod

[Stan Coryell]

Dave,
On low voltage your motor is delta wound. It's on the name plate. I don't see why it would matter unless it's programming in your VFD.

Bohdan is correct. If using a VFD, nothing can be between it and the motor. Start/ Stop must be done through the VFD.

Back to your question about the 120 volt, you need to find out why you have 4 wires landed on the termination block (we don't count ground). Post the schematic if you have it, also pictures of the electrical controls (the box with all the components inside, not the Start/ Stop).

Warren,
Is that a 950 volt motor? I understand the 550 volt winding. That would be a first for me. Is that a standard voltage somewhere? I don't know what the big black box is in your picture. Could you post a picture looking down on it?

[Mark Hennebury]

950 volts seems to be an Itaalian thing, Same voltage on some of my Italian machines.


Dave,
On low voltage your motor is delta wound. It's on the name plate. I don't see why it would matter unless it's programming in your VFD.

Bohdan is correct. If using a VFD, nothing can be between it and the motor. Start/ Stop must be done through the VFD.

Back to your question about the 120 volt, you need to find out why you have 4 wires landed on the termination block (we don't count ground). Post the schematic if you have it, also pictures of the electrical controls (the box with all the components inside, not the Start/ Stop).

Warren,
Is that a 950 volt motor? I understand the 550 volt winding. That would be a first for me. Is that a standard voltage somewhere? I don't know what the big black box is in your picture. Could you post a picture looking down on it?

[Stan Coryell]

I bet that makes a wicked mess when it flashes over!

[Warren Lake]

I have seen the higher voltage on one or two italan machines and wondered. Both are original motors one was rewired from 575 to 220 or is it 240 or is it


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[David Miller]

Ok, between the useful information in this thread and a message from Jack Forsberg and Matt I think I have the information that I need to move forward. I'll bypass the contactor and connect the VFD directly to the motor leads. I may try to wire the jointer controls to the VFD to maintain functionality. Otherwise, I'll just use the VFD controls.

Thanks everyone,
Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

950 volts seems to be an Itaalian thing, Same voltage on some of my Italian machines.

Hi Mark, Italy uses 400 volts as the low voltage 3 phase voltage.

They don't have a 950 volt system.

What happens is that when a motor is built for 550 volts Delta connection, if you were to connect it as a Wye configuration you would need 950 volts.

The only time you would ever do that is to run it at a higher frequency and voltage from a converter to increase RPM and power output.........Regards, Rod.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Rob, I have had a lot of motors from many different countries, and lots of 550, 575, 600 volt motors, the only ones that i have seen 550/950 are Italian. Seems to be an Italian thing, to me.


Hi Mark, Italy uses 400 volts as the low voltage 3 phase voltage.

They don't have a 950 volt system.

What happens is that when a motor is built for 550 volts Delta connection, if you were to connect it as a Wye configuration you would need 950 volts.

The only time you would ever do that is to run it at a higher frequency and voltage from a converter to increase RPM and power output.........Regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Rob, I have had a lot of motors from many different countries, and lots of 550, 575, 600 volt motors, the only ones that i have seen 550/950 are Italian. Seems to be an Italian thing, to me.

Hi Mark, many EU motors are marked for both configurations, it may be more common in Italy...Rod