Massive tear out when routing stiles

[Thomas Colson]

I've got a perplexing tear out issue. With a Bosch 1617 with https://www.freudtools.com/products/99-760 in it, when I route stiles in 3/4 red oak, I get massive and significant tear out along at the bottom of the "round over" (Where the top of the panel will sit flush with the "round over" along the entire length of the "groove". TO be clear, this IS NOT a problem with tear out as the end of the piece leaves the cutter. Coincidentally, I have no tear out there. Fence is a Woodpecker with feather boards on either side of the cutter holding piece flush with table, and one feather board on the table just past the cutter. Table is a sawstop, lift is a Jesem. The router, lift, and fence are all secure and exhibit zero play or movement. I've tried every router speed there is, varying feed rate. Even when I do the cut in 5 very small passes, I get tear out on each pass. Grain direction doesn't matter, same tear out. I should also point out that this is very old reclaimed barn oak, old growth, with very tight and often marbled grain patterns. Funny thing is, do the same with some white and chestnut oak from the same barn, no tear out, even when doing one full pass. The cutters are new, got them 2 months ago and the only other wood they've cut is some BORG pine to get my setup dialed in.

[Kevin Jenness]

This thread may provide some insight https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?288886-Splintering-when-routing-rail-stile-grooves-on-cope-amp-stick-doors

[Lee Schierer]

This happens relatively often on plain sawn red oak. Grain direction is important as it taking light cuts. When I need a full depth cut like you are after, I sneak up on it an 1/8 of an inch at a time. This doesn't totally eliminate tear out but it certainly helps. Yes it is more more work, but so is making a new piece. If you look closely at a piece of red oak you will see short darker lines. These are actual grain direction indicators. You want to run them through your cut so they are angled away from the direction of feed.

For example, look at the piece of wood below.
451412
If I were going to route the right edge of this board, the top right corner would lead the piece through the cut with the visible face up. To route the left side of this piece, the bottom left corner would lead with the visible face up.

[glenn bradley]

As mentioned, take care when making your blanks to plan for grain direction. We would all love to route downhill all the time but our material doesn't always allow that. For rail and stile profiles your best defense is to plan the direction the profile cut will be made as you are making the blanks.

[Kevin Jenness]

"For rail and stile profiles your best defense is to plan the direction the profile cut will be made as you are making the blanks."

This method limits the choice in arranging parts for the best look in the assembled door. A less restrictive approach can suppress tearout by pre-scoring, overcutting the depth, using a zero clearance fence or climb cutting as described in the previous thread.

[Edwin Santos]

In addition to some of the other good suggestions you've received, you could consider doing this cut in two passes. For the first pass, you could use a 1/8 or 3/32" spacer or shim of some type on your router table fence, perhaps secured with double stick tape or clamps. Then remove the shim and make the final cut which will of course be a very light cut. This should help alleviate the tearout. By using the shim, you will not have to interfere with your bit height and setup.
If you still get tearout, then the climb cut idea could be combined with the shim strategy so your climb cut is a light one.
A set of shims for your router table fence is a good thing to make and keep hanging on the wall.
I hope this helps.

[Thomas Colson]

I can't see the photo, it's asking me to pay for a subscription?!?! At any rate, it's real hard to tell grain direction with this oak, but I get the same problem even if I reverse the same piece and go from the other end, or flip sides.

I've been messing with this since I first posted, and now I have bigger problems: both carbide tips came off the lower cutter!!!!!!!!! A very noticable and scary event when they ricocheted inside the dust collection chute in the fence!

I'm the kinda tool owner where if the tool fails in a manner that could cause injury, I am no longer an owner of that brand of tool, regardless of if its my fault or not. In this case, I was taking the first of a few light passes, to sneak up on the full depth of the groove and roundover.

In this case, not having the bottom cutter makes this bit worthless, as the rails are now to big to fit into the undersized groove. No amount of sanding and chiseling will make it work.

Any recommendations for a coping bit set with perhaps more reliable cutters? Perhaps that may solve the problem here.



This happens relatively often on plain sawn red oak. Grain direction is important as it taking light cuts. When I need a full depth cut like you are after, I sneak up on it an 1/8 of an inch at a time. This doesn't totally eliminate tear out but it certainly helps. Yes it is more more work, but so is making a new piece. If you look closely at a piece of red oak you will see short darker lines. These are actual grain direction indicators. You want to run them through your cut so they are angled away from the direction of feed.

For example, look at the piece of wood below.
451412
If I were going to route the right edge of this board, the top right corner would lead the piece through the cut with the visible face up. To route the left side of this piece, the bottom left corner would lead with the visible face up.

[Lee Schierer]

I can't see the photo, it's asking me to pay for a subscription?!?! At any rate, it's real hard to tell grain direction with this oak, but I get the same problem even if I reverse the same piece and go from the other end, or flip sides.

I've been messing with this since I first posted, and now I have bigger problems: both carbide tips came off the lower cutter!!!!!!!!! A very noticable and scary event when they ricocheted inside the dust collection chute in the fence!

I'm the kinda tool owner where if the tool fails in a manner that could cause injury, I am no longer an owner of that brand of tool, regardless of if its my fault or not. In this case, I was taking the first of a few light passes, to sneak up on the full depth of the groove and roundover.

In this case, not having the bottom cutter makes this bit worthless, as the rails are now to big to fit into the undersized groove. No amount of sanding and chiseling will make it work.

Any recommendations for a coping bit set with perhaps more reliable cutters? Perhaps that may solve the problem here.

Sorry, I missed the fact that you aren't a contributor. We ask a mere $6.00 annually to help support the site. You can of course donate more. You can use paypal, a credit card through paypal or mail a check. Click on the yellow Donate" button at the top of any page. Or the link in my signature.

[Robert Hayward]

Any recommendations for a coping bit set with perhaps more reliable cutters?

I am a hobby woodworker and do not do production. With that said I have always had very good luck with Whiteside router bits.

[Lee Schierer]

Any recommendations for a coping bit set with perhaps more reliable cutters? Perhaps that may solve the problem here.

Actually Freud router bits are pretty good. I buy them exclusively since I bough my first one.

[Ronald Blue]

I can't see the photo, it's asking me to pay for a subscription?!?! At any rate, it's real hard to tell grain direction with this oak, but I get the same problem even if I reverse the same piece and go from the other end, or flip sides.


$6 a year is pretty outrageous! 50 cents per month! You could get maybe 3 gas station cups of coffee or one Starbucks for that.
There are many very knowledgeable and talented members here. The majority are also contributors. That's what keeps this great site running.

[johnny means]

The core of your problem is cutter geometry. The exit trajectory of small cutters is too steep. I deal with it by backing up the cut with a zero clearance fence.

[Jim Becker]

Bottom line...these cuts can be a challenge on any material, but especially species like oak that have a wide open pore and grain pattern that often changes direction. It can be "splintery" because of that. So taking a pass or three to get "close" to the full depth and then a final pass that's extremely light can help and yea, like johnny mentions, that last cut may need to be a climb cut which requires extra safety precautions since it's not in the natural direction for cutting.

[Richard Coers]

For really chippy wood, I move the fence out to make a 1/16" deep cut so the grooving cutter basically scores the wood. It's also easy to control a 1/16" deep cut, so climb cutting is even fine for the really brittle woods. A zero clearance insert or sacrificial layer on the fence makes a huge difference as well.

[Rich Aldrich]

I typically make the rails and stiles wider than needed so if (when) I get tear out, I can take a small cut or two on my jointer then make a final cut. Then I rip the opposite side and take a final pass on the jointer. I use a lot of oak and this has been the best way for me. Maple, cherry and ash are much easier to work with.

I also was given a raised panel set made by Jesada. These are much better than my original MLCS raised panel bit set. However, Jeseada are no longer made but I understand that Infinity bits are designed by the same person (people) - so I would expect they would perform similarly. I have a number of Freud bits and I am not really impressed. I have no experience with Freud raised panel bit sets.

Love Freud saw blades and forstner bits, though.