Planer without jointer — doable?

[Tom Henderson2]

I've been lusting after a jointer-planer combo machine but that won't happen any time soon.

i could swing a lunchbox planer (DW735).. but without a jointer.

So I would be using hand planes to initially flatten the first face, and the planer to do the rest of the surfacing and thicknessing.

My hand-tool skills are adequate for that; I’m pretty slow but I think i can live with it.

Edge jointing would be hand planes an/or tablesaw.

So this isn’t a perfect solution, but I’m hoping it would be a big improvement as hand planes alone have not been a good solution.

Any comments? Am I missing anything? Anybody out there using this setup?

thanks in advance!

[Lisa Starr]

Tom - I lived with a planer, but no jointer until just this past month when I finally got that combo machine you're wanting. It is doable, especially if you make a jig for straight lining the first edge on you table saw or use a track saw. Perfect, no but I worked that way for 15 years.

[John C Bush]

I use a torsion box sled to flatten stock too wide for my jointer. Cedar shims and a hot glue gun hold it just fine. I used 1/2" MDF for skins and solid stock for the sides and internal "cells"? . If making them now I would use 1/4" hardboard skins--the 8' x 18" sled gets heavy with a slab on top. I made the 8'er 3" thick and the 4'er 2" thick and both stay flat. Good luck

[Neil Gaskin]

I think the DW 735 is a great machine for what it is. I wouldn't want it as my primary anymore after having a floor model but it works well.

[Richard Coers]

Depends on how many board feet you process at a time, plus size of stock. Flattening a stack of 8" boards with a hand plane and winding sticks is not what I would call a fun weekend. Even a sled, shims, and hot glue doesn't sound like fun for 20+ boards either. Anything is doable, just how many hours do you want to spend preparing stock? $1,000 for a used jointer over a 20 year lifespan is pretty cheap money!

[Andrew More]

Here's another suggestion: Go with the 734, instead of the 735, and buy a used 6" jointer off craigslist. The 734 does almost everything the 735 does, except an additional 1/2" of capacity, and a blower to eject the chips. The difference in price, particularly once you figure in the "optional" tables for another $70ish dollars is about $250. Around here, old delta 6" jointers go for about $100-200, or you could get a new benchtop jointer for $250-300.

[Eric Schmid]

As you’ve discovered, there is not much joy in thickness-ing boards. Hard enough work to get a face and edge flat and square. Then to have to do it again, but with more accuracy...yeah a planer will help a lot.

I’ve had my stationary tools in storage for much of the past year. I’ve had no jointer or planer, but I’ve got a full compliment of hand planes. The jointing has been tolerable, thicknesses-ing not so much. If I could only bring one into the new shop it would be the planer. Almost finished with the new shop and fortunately don’t need to choose.

[Andrew Joiner]

Totally do-able. Study up on planer sleds.

I ditched(cobwebed) my jointer in 1979. At that time my lumber yards delivered kiln dry graded S3S lumber to my commercial shop for way less money than the cost of me flattening and straightlining it.

These days I use sleds to process rough lumber in my hobby shop. I prefer sawing to get the initial straight edge on a board hands down over a jointer. It's faster and takes less effort.

I use a thin lightweight planer sled to flatten faces of stock. I built a flat planer table similar to this one, only mine's 16' long:http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/329947-438x.jpg
It's like a jointer with power feed. Another plus,you don't have to press heavy,long lumber down flat on the jointer tables.
Even though I have the space and money for a big jointer, I prefer sleds.

I have room for flat level infeed and outfeed tables that are on the same plane as my fixed bed planer. I use flat 1/2" or 3/4" thick sleds. The sleds flex, but you don't ever pick them up when loaded with your stock, because they're set-up on the infeed table. To set up I slide rough cut thin shims under my rough stock until it wont rock. The shims stay in place without glue or tape,so it's quick and easy.

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m thinking a Amateur woodworker can get by without a jointer if there handtool skills there. I do think there’s a limit because when you start getting into rough sawn lumber with difficult grain a jointer your going to wish you had a jointer.
I prefer buying rough over sized boards and enjoy facing and planing wood to my liking.
I’m not trying to make money woodworking. So having a complete woodshop is more important

[Mike Henderson]

I lived without a jointer for a good many years, using hand planes to flatten one face and then putting it through a planer. Edges were mostly off the table saw.

Then I got an 8 inch jointer with a helical head. Wow, talk about a revelation. My work is much easier and more accurate.

But, yes, you can do without a jointer.

Mike

[Phil Mueller]

I’ve hand planed one face and thickness with a Dewalt 734 planer since starting out in woodworking. I rather enjoy the process, so have had little desire for a jointer.

[Justin Rapp]

Here's another suggestion: Go with the 734, instead of the 735, and buy a used 6" jointer off craigslist. The 734 does almost everything the 735 does, except an additional 1/2" of capacity, and a blower to eject the chips. The difference in price, particularly once you figure in the "optional" tables for another $70ish dollars is about $250. Around here, old delta 6" jointers go for about $100-200, or you could get a new benchtop jointer for $250-300.

i had the 734 for many years and sold it recently and grabbed a 735. While the cost of the 735 could range a few hundred more, it is well worth it. The two speeds is a great feature. It speeds up rough planning and that last slice on thHowe higher cuts per inch saves a pile of time on sanding / and sand-paper over time.

With that said, I do have a jointer and i'd never want to be without one. However for the times I want to flatten boards, it's time to break out the hot glue, shims and flat sled.

[Andrew More]

i had the 734 for many years and sold it recently and grabbed a 735. While the cost of the 735 could range a few hundred more, it is well worth it.
Is it worth giving up a jointer though? The DW735 is going to be a little quicker with the rough pass, but the slow speed is the same for both, as is the finish it leaves.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, you can get buy with a thicknesser and a good, sharp, tuned hand plane or three. Part of that involves making a sled that you can use to flatten material in the thicknesser...it allows you to contain and shim a board so that you can flatten one side without distorting it with the rollers and then remove from the sled, flip over and thickness. (being sure to account for taking even amounts off both sides including that first flattening step.

Is this ideal? No...it has more steps than using a J/P or separate jointer and thicknesser. But it works just fine for many folks.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

My unpopular opinion of planers and jointers is the exact opposite of all the above. Seriously think about how many times you need to make a tinner board. Not surface finish planing, legit making a thinner board. Now of those handful of times, is that board more than 3" wide? (If it's less than 3" just resaw thinner on your tablesaw) You are now down to a handful of instances likely, so divide the price of the planer by the number of running foot of the stock you have had to prep like this. There is your machine cost per foot for a planer and I bet that you will find it pretty high. Now add your time rate to it, and you'll begin to see how ridiculously expensive processing lumber really is.

Some people enjoy the milling process from rough lumber to a usable board, I personally don't. I hate watching expensive lumber turn into planer chips, I hate carrying bags of expensive chips to the dumpster, and I hate wasting time on something that I can outsource for way cheaper and get a better result. To that end, the minimal fee I pay my lumber supplier to S3S on their Weinig is a far better investment than using a planer in my shop. To that end, the planer is the least used machine in there.

A planer is not a surface prep tool. No surface is finish ready without sanding or hand planing anyhow. If your stock is coming in S3S, why do you even need a planer?

The edge jointer though is something way different. Nearly every tabletop, cabinet door, countertop, or anything else that is wider than 8" generally has an edge to edge glue-up. That joint is critical for a quality product. Further, the only reliable way to make a perfect edge joint is a jointer, either manual or powered. Yes the slider gets it close enough usually, but blade deflection rears it's ugly head a bit too often to completely rely on it. The jointer is fool proof. I do this for a living, so the powered jointer saves time and a good 6" edge jointer is cheap.

The other unpopular opinion is that you don't need a big jointer. A 6" jointer will edge joint anything that needs it, and if you are not milling your own stock from rough for zen reasons you don't need to face joint anything, so a good edge jointer is all you need.

This technique relies on being able to get good quality milling from your lumber supplier. If I can get it out here in the middle of nowhere though, odds are really good that there is a mill close to you that can do quality S3S. If not, my supplier will probably ship to you.

[Eric Schmid]

Steve, in principle you make a good point. Whether it makes sense to work with commercially milled stock, depends largely on what we’re building, however.

I do a lot of laminations and panel glue ups, and the primary wood source is reclaimed. For this work, it’s really important to have both a jointer and a planer; as well as a bandsaw. It’s also important to have hand planes, but the machines do the heavy lifting.

To your point, the work I do with commercially available lumber can often be done without a jointer or planer. Stock selection is important in this pursuit.

The difference between the two is where stock selection happens. With reclaimed or rough lumber, stock selection is in the milling process; by the woodworker in their shop. Having logged enough hours doing this, I agree that this is not a cost effective or money making endeavor. Even with free lumber it’s more expensive than buying commercially available lumber, in my experience.

Cost and profit are not the driving factors in milling your own lumber for many. It’s done for other reasons. At least that’s what I tell myself each time I engage in another project. 🥴

[Warren Lake]

table saw, bandsaw, 8" jointer, planer, drill press, stroke sander and shaper. Edge sander good addition as well. Now you are set up like old guys and can build anything from any material. Its no mystery what machines they bought and all of them did. Zero chance I would not have a jointer.

[Andrew Seemann]

Jointing without a jointer is inconvenient but doable. Thicknessing without a planer is just plain miserable, and beyond the skill and/or stamina level of many people.

Before getting my 8" Jet, I survived with a 6" Craftsman fixed outfeed jointer then a crummy open stand 6" Jet for around 30 years. I normally only used them for edge jointing short boards. Given the option, I would live without a jointer before I lived without a planer.

[Jim Becker]

A planer is not a surface prep tool. No surface is finish ready without sanding or hand planing anyhow. If your stock is coming in S3S, why do you even need a planer?
That would be pretty limiting relative to projects unless they are served well with preconceived thicknesses proportionally. A good example that came early in my woodworking endeavors was Norm Abram's Shaker Wall Clock project. Proportionally, it required thicknesses like 5/16" and 9/16", for example. So while I will agree that many folks can easily work with S3S and S4S material for many kinds of projects, having a thickness planer opens up a lot of opportunity for projects that will be a lot more satisfying when they are not built from 3/4" and other "standard" thicknesses. And, of course, if one wants to work in metric...which is a perfectly valid choice...S4S and S3S isn't going to happen in most of North America. This is just a devil's advocate think because you are not wrong, either.

[lowell holmes]

I have a 734 and a jointer. I would not do without them. The 735 is nice, but I chose the 734 and I have never regretted it.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

That would be pretty limiting relative to projects unless they are served well with preconceived thicknesses proportionally. A good example that came early in my woodworking endeavors was Norm Abram's Shaker Wall Clock project. Proportionally, it required thicknesses like 5/16" and 9/16", for example. So while I will agree that many folks can easily work with S3S and S4S material for many kinds of projects, having a thickness planer opens up a lot of opportunity for projects that will be a lot more satisfying when they are not built from 3/4" and other "standard" thicknesses. And, of course, if one wants to work in metric...which is a perfectly valid choice...S4S and S3S isn't going to happen in most of North America. This is just a devil's advocate think because you are not wrong, either.

I do enjoy debating it with you Jim! I do have a couple planers, so I'd do the shaker clock that way too, but you could also do it resawn off the bandsaw and cleaned up with handplanes. That approach would get allow bookmatch panels if you wanted. Last thing I did that needed thinner stock was a kid gate out of quatersawn white oak, so the thinner slats had to be kept quartered. I did use the planer for that because I didn't have enough 5/4 stock on hand, but it could have been done with the resawn technique with way less waste. This project was years ago....

You know I do this full time, so there have been several projects in between, and I have not had a single reason to use a planer to dimension stock in the mean time. Maybe you guys are just making cooler stuff, but the 734 gets used to knock filth off recycled redwood when we use it, and the Felder has probably died of boredom waiting on a job worthy of it. Oh, I can spec any custom thickness I want from my supplier to should it be needed, metric included. 4/4, 5/4, 6/4 and 8/4 are the normal stuff.

[Ed Mitchell]

If you're a hobbyist it's entirely doable, and coming from a hand tool background, I'd say it's a luxury.

Remember, you do not have to get that initial face flat. All you have to do is get it to the point where it won't rock going through the planer. If you're buying your lumber from a lumberyard where it's skip-planed or better, that's often very little work.

You can use wedges to support twisted boards and all sorts of other shortcuts. You're just taking off the worst offenders of the high spots that can't play well with others, then you're on to the next board.

[Andrew More]

I think you raise some good points, but I've got some questions.

First, how do you clean up resawn boards? Maybe you can avoid this because you've got a certain type of projects you're building.
Second, how do you handle boards that warp overtime, or after being sawn?

FWIW, after your comments, I decided to check my local sawyers. The most popular one does not offer anything but rough cut. There's another one about 45 minutes away that's focused on commercial customers, with a 250 bf minimum, who will do it for 0.45 per bf. 250 bf is a LOT for a hobbiest like me, so I usually don't go there. Finally we've got a fancy wood working place that charges about 2x for the s4s products. Then there are all the random people on Craigslist, who often carry rough sawn. So the ability to get cheap s4s does not always appear to be available.

[Tom Henderson2]

Thanks for your insights everyone; they are all very helpful.

I will likely “step up” to the planer now; hopefully a Jointer in the future.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I think you raise some good points, but I've got some questions.

First, how do you clean up resawn boards? Maybe you can avoid this because you've got a certain type of projects you're building.
Second, how do you handle boards that warp overtime, or after being sawn?

FWIW, after your comments, I decided to check my local sawyers. The most popular one does not offer anything but rough cut. There's another one about 45 minutes away that's focused on commercial customers, with a 250 bf minimum, who will do it for 0.45 per bf. 250 bf is a LOT for a hobbiest like me, so I usually don't go there. Finally we've got a fancy wood working place that charges about 2x for the s4s products. Then there are all the random people on Craigslist, who often carry rough sawn. So the ability to get cheap s4s does not always appear to be available.

Andrew, in a no planer shop, a smoothing plane works well. If the bandsaw is a little subpar, the work increases, but the added benefit is getting a ready for finish surface early in the process. As for wood that moves in storage, it either gets used for small pieces where the moving parts can be cut out, or just tossed. I do not trust a board that moved once to not do it again if I mill it out.

I've heard reports of similar lack of good mills. I'd recommend widening the search, figure out where the local pros shop, and you'll have a lead. My mill delivers twice a month, it's 100 miles away. 100 bf gets you free delivery. I commonly add a few boards on for the high school kids and their projects, always willing to add a little more to my orders to to help a hobbiest get some good stuff delivered too. It doesn't matter what I order really, just has to meet the minimum quantity, so multiple species in not a problem. One of your local shops or yards will probably provide similar resources. It does not allow sorting through the stacks for the exact board you want, but the price is usually enough lower so you get you more stock for the same price and have more to be picky with. Mills that cater to hobbyists in my experience tend to not have the volume to afford expensive new machines. One of the mill guys said their new Weinig costed $250,000 installed, so you can imagine small mills aren't buying many.

[Jim Becker]

Steve, I think there are many situations where S3S and S4S is the right choice...including many folks in the woodworking business, because of the time savings. It's great for beginning woodworkers, too, because as you clearly note, it doesn't require a whole shop of tools. Over time, we all figure out what our own directions are.

The OP's original question was whether a planer could suffice without a jointer, of course, and as has been noted in the thread, yes, he can. Many of us would certainly prefer to have that other tool, however. And that's ok, too.

[Matthew Hills]

I think it is viable to rough flatten a few boards or get a panel finished with hand planes.

This is satisfying sometimes, but I would prefer to not need to do that for every work piece. So I'd tend to echo the suggestion to consider a basic benchtop planer and looking for a 6" jointer.

Matt

[Andrew More]

I've heard reports of similar lack of good mills. I'd recommend widening the search, figure out where the local pros shop, and you'll have a lead.

I'm on a couple of local facebook groups for wood working. The subject has come up a few times, and most don't know about the place I mentioned that does milling, falling back on the other two, so from what I can tell, I am the local pro, at least when it comes to finding sawyers. :)

Part of it comes from looking for pine thick enough for interior doors, which is an odd request, so I've had to do some digging.

[Jim Becker]

Part of it comes from looking for pine thick enough for interior doors, which is an odd request, so I've had to do some digging.

I had to special order it and take a "bundle" which was more than I needed, but such nice stuff that I had no complaints, knowing I'd use the remainder for something else.

[Scott Bernstein]

Hobby woodworker here. I think this question relates to time, and how tolerant one is of frustration. If you start with rough lumber (or previously S3S stock which has sat around the shop and needs to be re-milled) it has to be edge-jointed and thickness-planed by some mechanism. Doing this all with hand planes can be done, but takes time. Accomplishing this with only a planer and tablesaw is also completely doable, but also takes time (although less than completely by hand) and you need to make some jigs/planing sleds. This is what I did when I started woodworking and I had a dewalt 735 (no jointer). The sled and wedges worked as advertised, but as my projects got bigger it became difficult to face joint very long pieces with this methodology. Once I got a jointer everything changed and got easier. Eventually I got a 16" combo machine and it has made things incredibly easy and I can use any rough lumber I want.

[David Bassett]

(OK, I skimmed this thread. Apologies if this has been mentioned and I missed it.)

I didn't see the notion of a planer-sled mentioned. Flattening one face with a plane is an option. But another option would be a sled which will support the board so the thickness planer can be used to flatten the first face. Since the planer will make two faces parallel, the sled provides an artificial flat face giving a reference so the planer flattens the other.

Tamar Hannah, aka 3x3Custom, just published a (sponsored*) video about doing this:

Milling Rough Lumber Without a Jointer Using a Few Simple Jigs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWOB-WIDkOs)

*Yeah, it's got an ad which is sort of annoying, but so do most things these days. And yeah, Tamar is less an expert than she's an enthusiastic beginner, but she takes time to figure out and learn good solutions, credits her sources, and explains what's she's doing really really well.

[Jim Dwight]

My most recent hardwood purchase was cherry. I know I can buy it locally for about $10 a board foot S3S. Instead I bought it rough sawn but dry for about $3.50 a board foot. I am pretty sure I could get surfaced stock cheaper at another place I've purchased from but it will always cost more. I also do not find surfaced material to be real consistent in thickness. But you probably have a better supplier.

I have a jointer, and old Inca that will plane 8 5/8 wide boards but the tables are only about 3 feet long. I just finished a dining table 10 feet long. No way I was jointing those boards on that little jointer. Instead, I cut the glue ready edges with my track saw. I have a couple hairline gaps in one glue line of 6 in the table top. So if I was careful it did very well. I've also done this for a large cabinet with a solid wood top, it is a little over 7 feet long. Again too big to comfortably joint with a small jointer.

I really needed my planner to make this table, however. I filled the chip box below my cyclone almost twice (70 gallon capacity). I planned it using my old Ryobi AP-10 planner that will only plane up to 10 inch wide boards. I only had one wider than that and by the time I straightened the edges with the track saw it was less than 10 inches wide. I had to take very small bites buy my little lunchbox planner got it done. I did not try and flatten these boards with the jointer or hand plane first. In my opinion, that is not necessary for a table top like this and the resulting top is flat. The material was not real warped and there are 6 boards in the 42 inch wide top. They flattened each other out during the glueup. I used 10mm dominos to get them aligned during glueup.

To me the biggest need for a flat face to start is something like a cabinet door that needs to be and stay flat. Pieces of a cabinet or furniture piece that will be glued up into a structure can be a little off and the piece not suffer for it. I use my jointer for these kind of pieces and basically whenever the board is short enough but for big boards, I just plane them and cut a straight edge with the track saw. Works.

Most of us don't change techniques any more often than we have to. When we find something that works we continue doing it that way. Nothing wrong with that. If I had space for a much longer jointer I might do edges that way. But I don't have the space or the tool. So I came up with another way that also works.

[Jim Becker]

(

I didn't see the notion of a planer-sled mentioned.

Yup...it was mentioned... :)

[Alex Zeller]

I'm not sure if it was thrown out as an option but if you have a router you could make a flattening jig for it. May not be the best solution but it should do well enough to get rough cut to the point where a planer can handle it. From there, if you could build a jig for your tablesaw (kind of like what you would use to make a tapered board on a tablesaw). Obviously doing it by hand does come with some satisfaction but not all of us have the time needed.