Custom door too thick for regular hinges

[Bill Carmean]

I'm constructing an outdoor sauna with a custom door - 22" wide, 80" tall and 45 pounds. I had planned to use stainless spring hinges. However, the door is 3-⅛" thick: ¾" cedar on the inside and outside with 100 year-old 2x4's as the frame. Unfortunately, the largest stainless spring hinges available are 4.5" x 4.5", so the hinge screws won't bite properly into the edge of the 2x4 frame. (See the photo, which shows the edge of the door with the engineer's sketch of the 4.5"x4.5" hinge attached).

What can I do? Some ideas:
(1) Is it possible to use the 4.5" x 4.5' spring hinge, but mount the hinge farther into the door's edge (past the outside cedar facing board) so the screws bite properly into the edge of the 2x4? If so, how? Are there any problems I am creating for myself with this solution?
(2) I have not yet attached the cedar facing boards to the outside of the door (the door opens to the outside, so it's the outside facing board that is the biggest problem, I think). Could I use a 3/16" hardwood facing board instead of the 5/8" cedar? If I did that, the screws will bite, but I'm not sure if I've caused myself other problems. (See the second photo, with the thin, dark wood on the left of the door.)
(3) Should I abandon the spring hinge idea altogether, buy larger (possibly Victorian era) hinges without springs and use some sort of sauna-safe, push-open, latching system to keep the door closed. If so, what would work to keep the door closed? All I can think of is a large roller latch. I've considered using a pneumatic door closer, but that's industrial-looking and ugly in this fancy sauna.
(4) Does anyone have a better idea?

[Bill Dufour]

a magnet? Climate. If we knew what country we might have more local sources. i assume you are not in Sweden?
Bil lD

[Dave Seng]

Have you looked into using a strap hinge? Just a quick internet search turned up several different models of strap hinges with integral springs. Might not fit with the look that you are trying to achieve.

[Jim Matthews]

Would you consider routing out a mortice in the side and inserting a hardwood (crossgrain) block to hold screws?

*Ignore the dowels in the linked photo*

http://customfurnitureandfab.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/IMG_0445-Medium.jpg

[Lee Schierer]

I'm constructing an outdoor sauna with a custom door - 22" wide, 80" tall and 45 pounds. I had planned to use stainless spring hinges. However, the door is 3-⅛" thick: ¾" cedar on the inside and outside with 100 year-old 2x4's as the frame. Unfortunately, the largest stainless spring hinges available are 4.5" x 4.5", so the hinge screws won't bite properly into the edge of the 2x4 frame. (See the photo, which shows the edge of the door with the engineer's sketch of the 4.5"x4.5" hinge attached).

What can I do? Some ideas:
(1) Is it possible to use the 4.5" x 4.5' spring hinge, but mount the hinge farther into the door's edge (past the outside cedar facing board) so the screws bite properly into the edge of the 2x4? If so, how? Are there any problems I am creating for myself with this solution?

No, there cannot be any part of the door past the pivot point of the hinge or the door will not be able to open.

(2) I have not yet attached the cedar facing boards to the outside of the door (the door opens to the outside, so it's the outside facing board that is the biggest problem, I think). Could I use a 3/16" hardwood facing board instead of the 5/8" cedar? If I did that, the screws will bite, but I'm not sure if I've caused myself other problems. (See the second photo, with the thin, dark wood on the left of the door.)
(3) Should I abandon the spring hinge idea altogether, buy larger (possibly Victorian era) hinges without springs and use some sort of sauna-safe, push-open, latching system to keep the door closed. If so, what would work to keep the door closed? All I can think of is a large roller latch. I've considered using a pneumatic door closer, but that's industrial-looking and ugly in this fancy sauna.
(4) Does anyone have a better idea?

Put the mounting plate of you hinge against the outside face of the door and bolt it with stainless steel through bolts through the thickness of the door. Your door will still be able to open 90 degrees. If you can mount the other leaf of the hinge flat against the door opening you would still have a door that could swing 180 degrees.


I hope this helps

[Peter Kelly]

Regular 5" hinge and a ball catch in the strike side edge of the door? You’re also going to need to bevel that edge or it’ll run into the jamb when you go to shut it. You’ll end up with a massive gap to allow a door that thick to swing freely otherwise.

I’ve seen stand-alone saunas in Finland and Sweden, many of them have a small vestibule with a second interior door to the sauna. Doors themselves aren’t more than 1.5" - 1.75" thick.

[Bill Dufour]

You do not want any metal for a handle on the inside or the outside. It will burn your hands from the steam inside. A heavy door like that you may burn your hands on the handle outside if it is the sun and it is 120 F. But I doubt you take a sauna when it is over 100 F outside.

[Bill Carmean]

Your responses are incredibly helpful. Thank you. Thank you!

Yes, it was crazy (and totally ignorant) to build a door this thick. However, with your help, perhaps I can turn my mistake into one of the glorious spots of my custom-built sauna. Then can move onto an even bigger challenge: building two operable sauna windows from scratch, for which I need more advice (see below).

I loved Jim Mathews' suggestion to mortise a crossgrain block for strength. I will use this in another application. I plan to follow Lee Schierer's suggestion to bolt the spring hinge's mounting plate to the face of the sauna door. Lee: Two questions: (1) When you suggest I mount the other leaf flat "against the door opening", I assume you mean "the wall adjacent to the door" rather than inside the door jamb? (2) If I mount the hinge in this manner, will I be able to adjust the tension on the spring adequately so the door opens and closes properly? (I plan to will order the 4-½"x 4-½" commercial stainless spring hinge from the Hinge Outlet: https://www.hingeoutlet.com/collections/spring_hinges_commercial/products/stainless-steel-commercial-spring-hinge

I love the expression in the wood turning community, "There is no such thing as a mistake, only a design change." Accordingly, because I spent so much time figuring out how to manage this mistakenly thick door, I have decided to make the outside of the door a piece of sculpture, as if Louise Nevelson had designed it, rather than facing it with ¾" cedar tongue and groove boards. Instead, I will face the outside few inches of the door’s outside face with 3/16" mahogany (so there will be sufficient room for the hinges to operate without hitting the casing, which I will make thinner than usual), then piece together beautiful but odd bits of hardwood I have saved over the years (but not had the heart to throw out) to cover the rest of the door's outside face -- paduk, wenge, black walnut, plus beautiful but failed turnings I have saved over the years. In addition, I have a wooden mold used to create iron castings, made 100++ years ago in the John A. Roebling Company's wood shop in Trenton. If it works, I may also attach antique woodworking tools I inherited from my father, which otherwise will simply molder away in boxes. I hope the door will be as beautiful as the quilts my wife makes. Fingers crossed.

My next challenge, for which I desperately need some sage advice: Building two operable awning-type windows for the sauna -- the type of windows that hinge at the top. I have ordered custom-made, double-pain, tempered glass for the windows. I know how to construct the frames, casings, sills, etc. (Jim Matthew’s crossgrained mortise blocks could strengthen the window, I guess) , and how to weatherproof (Vycor, etc.) the rough opening.

However, I have no clue what type of weatherstripping would best weatherproof the space between the operable window frame and the stationary jamb (or how best to install such weatherstripping. Also, i don’t know the best mechanism to open and close these awning windows -- some kind of scissor-style awning closer? Note: I can use metal inside the sauna, provided I cover all metal parts that folks might touch with wood.

[Lee Schierer]

Lee: Two questions: (1) When you suggest I mount the other leaf flat "against the door opening", I assume you mean "the wall adjacent to the door" rather than inside the door jamb? (2) If I mount the hinge in this manner, will I be able to adjust the tension on the spring adequately so the door opens and closes properly? (I plan to will order the 4-½"x 4-½" commercial stainless spring hinge from the Hinge Outlet: https://www.hingeoutlet.com/collections/spring_hinges_commercial/products/stainless-steel-commercial-spring-hinge[/FONT]

Upon further review, You can't do what I suggested with your hinge. However, I drew your door in an opening in autocad and determined that you can mount the hinge as designed, if you drill two new holes on the leaf that attache to the door for the top and bottom mounting screws on each hinge that are directly above the two screws in the center. The screw holes going into the door jamb can remain as manufactured. This isn't ideal from a strength standpoint to have all four screws in the same plane into the wood. You could add a third hinge to take up some of the weight of the door. You would also have to put a 3.5 degree bevel on the latch side of the door so it will clear when the door is opened. The drawing assumes a uniform 1/8" clearance on each side of the door as installed and closed.
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[Bill Carmean]

Lee:

You ARE AWESOME!!! I will do as you have suggested. What fun!

Just think about this for a second: What would our fathers have done (or what would we have done merely 10 or 15 years ago) when confronting such a problem -- without the interenet, without SawMillCreek?

Question: Can I bevel the door jam on the latch side by 3.5 degrees to eliminate the gap?

[Lee Schierer]

Question: Can I bevel the door jam on the latch side by 3.5 degrees to eliminate the gap?

You can leave a short flat near the front of the door on the latch side before you start the bevel and you can also do what you suggest, but that might be harder to accomplish. Normally the door stop molding would hide the gap created by the bevel on the inside of the door.

[Joe Calhoon]

I think you might find you will need greater than 3 degree bevel to get 1/8” gap on a 3” thick door. We build a lot of doors in this thickness range and always go double or triple rebated for any door thicker than 2 1/4”.

I believe your door and jamb might be already made. If possible you might be able to rebate the door and add a stop to your jamb as shown in the crude sketch. You could even add a second stop and gasket for more insulation value.
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[Bill Dufour]

Reminds me of a poster in a English teachers class. If you do not know what to say shout "plot twist" and move on.
Bill D

[Jim Matthews]

Just think about this for a second: What would our fathers have done (or what would we have done merely 10 or 15 years ago) when confronting such a problem -- without the interenet, without SawMillCreek?

Question: Can I bevel the door jam on the latch side by 3.5 degrees to eliminate the gap?

They would have bought a bigger hammer.

If the jam is already tight, this is a simple task with a hand plane. Drop a line where you want to remove stock and plane off that "corner".

Some chisel work at the top and bottom required.

If it's loose, I recommend a felt gasket.

Once you get the inside hot (and dry) it will shrink while the outside might warp a bit.

How do the Finns do this?