Bandsaws: What to look for

[John Bailey]

This subject has come up in the past, but we've got a lot of new members now and I'm getting closer to buying. So I thought I'd put down what I'm looking for in a bandsaw and have others provide their input.

1. 16" to 21" wheels made of cast iron
2. cast iron trunions
3. 12" resaw capacity
4. 3 hp. motor
5. 400-600 lbs.
6. Able to realistically tension a 1" blade for resaw
7. Cost - $800 to $1,600

For me, I'm going to need a bandsaw that is using a smaller blade, for curves, most of the time, but occasionally will be using all of the 12" of resaw. I'm just a hobbiest, so industrial quality is not that important, but the stouter the better.

John

[Jim Becker]

John, I believe you'll be able to find something just like that in the price range you state. Green or green and white come to mind.

[John Bailey]

Jim,

You can probably deduce where I've been looking today, since the mail came anyway. The catagory that I don't have much info on is the blade tension. I was hoping some would chime in on the subject that have experience with the less expensive models. Their weight makes me wonder if they are really robust enough to handle a 1" blade.

John

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I've got an older Hitachi resaw bandsaw, not what you are looking at, but it does have a BIG blade on it.....

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/bandsaw/sitting_pretty2.jpg

The spring on mine is going, or gone, I need to order another one.

The wheel on top is a JOKE when you want to tighten or loosen the tension, I just use a pipe wrench :o

I don't know how you feel about buying an older used Bandsaw, but, if I were you, living in the US, I'd not hesitate, I'd go looking and find one in fair condition and fix it up. The older Bandsaws are the best bang for the buck, You get a well made SOLID machine that, with some TLC will serve your for MANY years to come.

The newer ones are nice, for sure, but to match the quality of the older machines, you have to get into a fairly high price range, from what I've seen.

Just my two yen's worth.

Cheers!

[tod evans]

john, i can`t answer your question on the green saws ability to tension a 1" blade but i would suggest you up the motor to one that draws a minimum of 18 amps on 220, at bare minimum a 3.5 horse. i frequently bog down a 9 horse when i`m pushing things.........02 tod

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Here is the motor plate for my bandsaw.......

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/bandsaw/motor_plate.jpg

I've not once EVER bogged this thing down, not even close, even when ripping at the full 12" capacity, in HARD Japanese Evergreen Oak, with a few burls and a crotch as well.

This motor just rips, it is a univeral motor, NOT an induction motor, and it has a gear box on it..........

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/bandsaw/motor.jpg

My point is, it is not just the HP of the motor, but the blade speed and such, so gearing, via pulley size, is also important. Of course so is blade speed, but I think you could lose a little blade speed and gain some grunt.

If you put a smaller pulley on the motor and a larger pulley on the saw, you will drop the gearing, giving you more grunt, this might be a cheaper way to go than a new motor.........?

Worth a shot.....

Cheers!

[John Bailey]

Let me point this thread in a slightly different direction. Considering my list in the original post, which considerations are most important, which shouldn't I worry about so much. Some of you folks have used bandsaws for quite a while, and I've only researched. There are probably some real world concerns that need to be attended to, while others are probably not so important.

John

[tod evans]

john, for bandsaws i`m very fond of the welded steel frames. realistically 95% of the time you won`t use anymore than 10-12 inches of resaw height, only you know how many dollars that other 5% is worth. i`ve seen welded steel trunions that where as stout or stouter than cast ones so the design is more important than the material. everybody has their own preference on guides, even the metal blocks do the job but bearings are much nicer. i don`t think the style is a big deal;euro or conventional, they both work well. tires are something you will be replacing at some point so pay attention to how they are mounted and what they are made of. if dust collection is an issue for you two ports are mandatory. make sure the blade tracking mechanism is well made and servicable. as for the motor, just as with most tools bigger allows you more speed. .....02 tod

[Bill Webber]

John, you list a lot of features you want or believe you need, but you don't say what you will use it for. I had (have) a Delta 14 inch with a riser. I struggled with occasional 12 inch resaw until I but a 1/2 inch Lenox carbide blade and a new spring on it. With only a 3/4 hp motor, resaw capability is quite acceptable. Would you want to use it for resawing all day? I doubt it.

Now, I've just purchased an MM-20. Big honkin' resaw capability with lots of HP. This will be used for resawing, bowl blanks, cutting up logs, etc. It is not likely I'll ever try to put an 1/8th inch blade on it and cut 3" circles. I plan to keep both saws (I'm not sure I will have room to actually use them...:rolleyes: )

What is the smallest scroll blade you folks have used on these bigger saws like the MM-16 or 20?

Regards,
Bill W.

[tod evans]

bill, the mm 16 is my small saw. i keep a 1/4" 4tooth blade on it for doing small curves. tod

[Travis Porter]

U making moonshine to fund all the toys u have? I mean well equipped shop in the sticks and all these antique cars?;)

[tod evans]

U making moonshine to fund all the toys u have? I mean well equipped shop in the sticks and all these antique cars?;)

nope, here`s my bread-n-butter. curved stuff. i figured out a long time ago if joe can do it in his garage there ain`t no money in it!

28967

[Cecil Arnold]

John, I think Tod is trying to aim you in the right direction. To tension a 1" blade you are going to be at the high end of your budget. While I wish I had the new MM16 for the additional re saw height, I have not often worried about the 12+" I have. I would feel more comfortable if you could better define what you want to do with a band saw. For scrolling you could easily get by with almost any 14" unit (Jet, Delta, Griz) but to do good re saw, book match, or other operation requiring blades over 1/2" I think you need to consider the "big iron" and HP to match.

[John Callahan]

Tod, do you use the stock guides or the cool block conversion kit for the 1/4" blade?

[tod evans]

Tod, do you use the stock guides or the cool block conversion kit for the 1/4" blade?


just what came with the saw. they haven`t worn out yet and work fine.

[John Bailey]

I build dulcimers, kayak paddles, kayaks and small boats, with a large boat in the future. For the dulcimers, I need to be able to resaw hardwoods that are 1/8" thick, usually around 4" to 6" wide. For the kayak paddles, again about 4" wide and around 1" thick. For the small boats, I'll need to resaw a bit bigger boards, 1/2" to 1 1/2"'s thick and 6" wide. The big boat in the future may require shaping fairly large timbers 8"x12" of white oak. Aside from that, my wife loves bowls and so I'm planning on learning to turn some bowls. Please, don't anyone tell the turners. They are a pesky bunch.

I will also be harvesting some Cherry, Walnut, Maple and Hornbeam and using the bandsaw to saw into boards.

My shop is not big, 20X20, and so there's not a lot of room for huge machines. I don't plan on a table saw, so that helps.

Thanks for all the advice. It really helps.

John

[Mark Singer]

I would raise the budget and get an Aggazani or MM...one average project wood cost is the difference and you will have it for years

[tod evans]

I would raise the budget and get an Aggazani or MM...one average project wood cost is the difference and you will have it for years

two points

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

if joe can do it in his garage there ain`t no money in it!

Boy, that is one to write down!!

:D ("joe" in the garage here.......)

[tod evans]

Boy, that is one to write down!!

:D ("joe" in the garage here.......)

stu, looking at your dungeon you`re allready past the joe stage:)

[Jim Becker]

John, you added some information in one of your latest posts in this thread and that is the fact that you do not plan on having a table saw. For that reason, I suggest you stay to the higher end of your bandsaw budget and buy a larger machine. This not only covers all the things you talked about, but also gives you more throad depth for greater versatility. It's not always about height...width can come into play, too. Combining a bigger bandsaw with a guided circular saw system (especially with some form of multi-function table that accomodates the guide) will give you a huge amount of capablity for all kinds of projects including and beyond your plans...in not much space, too.

The larger bandsaw (and larger table) will also help you accomodate the jigs and carriers you're going to want to work with should you saw any of those logs you mention... ;) ...not to mention give you the power you will need for working wet, heavy wood.

[Wayne Gauthier]

john, for bandsaws i`m very fond of the welded steel frames. realistically 95% of the time you won`t use anymore than 10-12 inches of resaw height, only you know how many dollars that other 5% is worth. i`ve seen welded steel trunions that where as stout or stouter than cast ones so the design is more important than the material. everybody has their own preference on guides, even the metal blocks do the job but bearings are much nicer. i don`t think the style is a big deal;euro or conventional, they both work well. tires are something you will be replacing at some point so pay attention to how they are mounted and what they are made of. if dust collection is an issue for you two ports are mandatory. make sure the blade tracking mechanism is well made and servicable. as for the motor, just as with most tools bigger allows you more speed. .....02 tod

I tend to dissagree with your last statemant,"bigger allows you more speed". The speed of the motor is measured in rpm's, which are matched to the rpm's the saw and blade are best suited for, for example; you can get the same speed out of a 1/2 hp motor as with a 1 hp motor. I will say that the torgue is more with a larger motor, simply because it has more horsepower. A larger motor is less likely to bog down when using it.

just my $.02

[Wayne Gauthier]

I just bought the G1182HW BS from Griz. it is a 14" with 1 hp motor running on 220 volts, it is capable of resawing with a 3/4" blade, which I have already done. I also bought 4 Timberwolf blades to go with it. This saw also has the capability of going to 12" resaw with an extension and will increase blade lengh from 93 1/2 to 105"

[Jim Becker]

Yankee, I believe what Tod was saying is that with larger, more powerful machine, you can "cut" faster. Which is quite true...more power allows the blade to maintain speed under load and with heavy and/or thick material with a lot of blade engaged, the load is quite high.

[Mark Rios]

I just bought the G1182HW BS from Griz. it is a 14" with 1 hp motor running on 220 volts, it is capable of resawing with a 3/4" blade, which I have already done. I also bought 4 Timberwolf blades to go with it. This saw also has the capability of going to 12" resaw with an extension and will increase blade lengh from 93 1/2 to 105"


Um.....Damn, you silly guy, you............I think the 1182 is a 6"planer (I used to own one). Do you mean theG0555? (I used to have that tool also).

BTW John, one very important accessory that I didn't see listed is a cup holder. Everyone should have one on every machine so that it's readily available and close at hand. No reaching to another machine. Safety first, you know.:D :D

[Clint Malone]

I think Grizzly has 3 bandsaws that meet your requirements, the G0514X for $1100, the G0506X for $1450, and the G0566 for $1600.

I recently bought the G0566 and couldn't be happier with it.

[John Bailey]

Clint,

Of the three saws you mentioned, I'm not convinced the G0514X can tension a 1" blade, I'd have to see the numbers, which are hard to come by, and the G0506 only has 9 3/4" resaw. The G0566 would fit all my criteria, so that's where I'm leaning. I put a bid on a Bridgewood PBS 440 recently, but lost it by $20. Probably someone on this site got it.:mad: I've not found anyone on this site that has this saw. I think it's made by the same folks that make the Laguna. I'd like to know how the Bridgewood compares to the Laguna, MM and Agazzni. Anyone have this saw. It's out of my price right now, but maybe if a save a bit more?? :rolleyes:

John

[Cecil Arnold]

John, if that is the 18" Bridgwood, one of the WW mags. did a piece on 18" BSs and included it along with the Laguna, Jet, Delta, Rinkon, and some others. I don't remember which magazine, maybe someone else does.

[john mclane]

http://www.toolcenter.com/rikon/10-340review.pdf

John I had started a thread a week or so ago for the smaller bandsaws (on your recommendation to start the thread).

I had gone to a lot of websites and ran across this one for the larger 18 in BS. the Rikon 18 in was what was recommended for best value but the Bridgewood for the best overall.

None of the woodshops near me have any of the large saws so could not evaluate. I wish I could see the Grizzly 14" for myself before I make a decision. I don't see myself doing much more resawing then 8 in precut planks so don't think I can justify the extra expense for your price range. I may have also a height limitation in my stone cellar shop (only about 7 feet)
good luck

[Gary Sutherland]

[QUOTE=tod evans] i figured out a long time ago if joe can do it in his garage there ain`t no money in it!


Love it!!!

[Brian King]

Here is some insight on blade tension. If you have to tenson a 1 inch blade you need a very stout saw. If your saw isn't you'll be tensioning the saw not the blade. The saw frame will spring.
Take a look if you want to learn about it.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00013.asp

[John Bush]

Hi John.
You have a lot of great machines to choose from and a lot of good advice to help confuse you. I have the Rikon 18 and have been very pleased with it. Plenty of stiffness to tension a 1" blade and lots of power for resawing. I'm happy with it BUT I would recommend that you choose a saw with a foot brake/switch. My saw takes 45+ seconds to stop after shutdown and if I'm trying to stabilize even a modest sized plank after slicing off a piece, I have to hold steady with the exposed blade wizzing by at a high rate of hurry. I think you could get all the features you are looking for from a lot of saws available but I would add the foot brake close to the top of the list. Good luck, John.

[Clint Malone]

Clint,

Of the three saws you mentioned, I'm not convinced the G0514X can tension a 1" blade, I'd have to see the numbers, which are hard to come by, and the G0506 only has 9 3/4" resaw. The G0566 would fit all my criteria, so that's where I'm leaning. I put a bid on a Bridgewood PBS 440 recently, but lost it by $20. Probably someone on this site got it.:mad: I've not found anyone on this site that has this saw. I think it's made by the same folks that make the Laguna. I'd like to know how the Bridgewood compares to the Laguna, MM and Agazzni. Anyone have this saw. It's out of my price right now, but maybe if a save a bit more?? :rolleyes:

John

I didn't even notice that the resaw on the 506 was only 9 3/4". If you make it down to TX, you are welcome to come try out my G0566. I really can't imagine that the Euorpean saws are $1000 better, but maybe they are. The only experience that I have with them is fondling them at the woodworking shows. I can tell you that I was able to slice 1/16" veneer with a glue line rip right out of the box (after changing to a carbide blade of course and installing a grizzly power feeder), which is what I bought it for. I seriously considered buying the Minimax MM16 or the Laguna LT16HD, but I just couldn't justify the extra $$$ for my usage, which is for a hobby. If I made my living doing this, then I might consider one of the other machines based on their reputation, but for me, this saw is plenty. The only thing that I would change on the saw is the stock blade (which wasn't TOO bad believe it or not) and I may buy some nice chrome handwheels to replace the couple that are plastic.

[Kevin Kirchner]

I'm new to this forum so please excuse unintentional blunders of etiquet (Sorry my spelling isn't very good either).
I'm looking at 18" plus or minus 2" bs, and I've enjoyed reading your all's postings. In the pitch I got from Laguna at the WW show tonight, its blade guide technique was presented as ground breaking - yet I've seen no mention of that specifically in any of the bs dialogue I've read. Any comments?
BTW Dain mentioned the E16 at 1395.
I was impressed by MM16's construction.
Thanks
Kevin

[Ed Kowaski]

Cecil, that was in Taunton's 2005 Tool Guide. FWIW for 18" saws best overall was Bridgewood PBS-440 ($1800) and Laguna's LT18SE ($2900), best value was Rikon 10-340 ($900).

Though not obvious to me without some study, the General 90-270 ($1500) scored very very well. I bought the General International and it's a solid beast.

[John Bailey]

Kevin,

During my research, it seemed to me that style of blade guides were a personal choice, rather than one style being better than the other. Many folks like either one or the other. Not having a bandsaw, I don't have a clue and will use whatever comes on the saw. If, at a later date I have an opinion, I will change at that time. That's why I didn't include that as a criteria.

Ed,

I've not found the Bridgewood PBS 440 for less than $2,100, or the General International 90-270 for less than $1,800. They both look like great machines, and the Bridgewood at $1,800 could possibly be my choice.

I notice in the new Grizzly catalogue the G0566 can be ordered with a 5 hp motor for $1,800. That's another consideration.

John

[tod evans]

john, here`s something that i haven`t seen mentioned yet, just what is the thickness of the steel used to support the upper guide wheel on the saws you are comparing? the column design and gauge of steel used is simply the one factor that will make for a saw that can withstand tensioning a 1" or greater blade. i`ll ammend this post later with the dimensions of the old style mm16.......tod

the steel i was able to get calipers on measured .175 at the top of the tapered column it appears to be 3 5/8 wide looks to be four pieces this shape welded into a box configuration......i`ll just take a pic...

[tod evans]

can`t add pics to the other posts. hope this helps explain what i feel is a good design of the column?

29017

29018

29019

[tod evans]

I'm new to this forum so please excuse unintentional blunders of etiquet (Sorry my spelling isn't very good either).
I'm looking at 18" plus or minus 2" bs, and I've enjoyed reading your all's postings. In the pitch I got from Laguna at the WW show tonight, its blade guide technique was presented as ground breaking - yet I've seen no mention of that specifically in any of the bs dialogue I've read. Any comments?
BTW Dain mentioned the E16 at 1395.
I was impressed by MM16's construction.
Thanks
Kevin

kevin, first off welcome! second off i personally don`t think ceramic guides are a selling point. as i`ve said earlier bearings are really nice....if you head back to the show have a look at the frame construction on the two saws you mention and let folks here know your take on how well they`re built. thanks, tod

[Cecil Arnold]

John, I would get in touch with MM and get the spec on the E-16 before turning lose any cash. I'm confused about this saw, but think it was originally imported by Laguna, then dropped when they went to another manufacturer. I think (and want to stress think) that MM got the Italian manufacturer to do some upgrades and better QC before they brought it back. I would question MM as to why it is not currently on the web site. The last user review I saw, before the upgrade, had issues with the finish of the table--the milling was rough but flat--but praised the saw. I really think it is worth considering if the specs meet your criteria.

Ed, thanks, I knew someone with a better memory would remember.

[Jim Becker]

IIn the pitch I got from Laguna at the WW show tonight, its blade guide technique was presented as ground breaking
"Ground breaking" is kinda their sales pitch (and opinion), but guide systems are a personal preference thing. Ceramic guides are not something "new"...they have been available as inserts for other saws for years. For thin blades, I prefer a "cool blocks" type arrangement (or wood) so you can bury the blade, and I have them for my MM16 for that reason. For wide blades, the standard Euro guides work perfectly well for me and I see no reason to change them to rollers or fancy ceramics.