New Planer vs Upgrade Existing Benchtop

[Andrew More]

I'm weighting my options and wonder if there's something I'm not aware of that the community can point out. It's tax season, and I should be getting enough money to replace or upgrade my existing DeWalt 734 planer. The 734 has been a solid planer, doing everything I've asked of it for the past 2 1/2 years, which has been mostly weekend warrior stuff with pine and oak. I might be move towards more high end hardwoods, now that I feel I won't make a huge mess of it. In particular I've got about 100 bf of old walnut I'm probably going to be making into various pieces of furniture. Whatever I do I want to get away from the straight blades, and move to a helical head. I'd rather do it sooner than later, because I've got a nick in the blades.

Upgrade:
I do this this relatively cheap at $425 + shipping from a couple of different places. OTOH, this effectively doubles the price of the machine. That having been said I've seen the guts, and it's all steel gears and aluminum, no plastic, so it's unlikely to break down any time soon. The motor might be another story, universal motors are not designed for constant use and abuse.

Replace:
At this point I'm looking at Grizzly 15" planers. Obviously buy once, cry once, but boy is that a big ask, since that's going to be about $2100-2500 with shipping, handling, etc. The big planers sure look nice, but I'm not sure the advantages are sufficient for a weekend warrior. Better motor, deeper cuts, slightly large capacity, cast iron tables, less noise.

Buy Used:
I've looked around quite a bit off an on since getting the DeWalt. Most of the stuff going around here is overpriced, overused, or both at the same time, with anything that's not a lunchbox planer being pretty rare. Best offer right now is a Jet 15" for $1K, but it's got the blue paint, so it's at least 20 years old, and a hour away by car.

Is there something I'm missing here? It's not like I can't afford it, but I do want to be prudent with my money.

[Howard Pollack]

Personally I would reconsider the need/desire to move away from straight blades. Having made the change to a helical head I find myself not overwhelmed. The helical head is good, but for the approximately $1000 for a 12" head one could buy many sets of blades for a DeWalt 734 and still have much money left over for more tools, wood, or (my favorite) air-fare to Italy once covid has been brought under control. If you take the option of travel you can/will be inspired by the woodwork in the churches and that inspiration will help you do better, more challenging work in the future. I know this from experience. -Howard

[glenn bradley]

I had to look around to make myself aware of current pricing because I was about to say something dumb. I still may :).

First let me clarify . . . you are saying you would put a helical head in your DW734? Despite several folks posting problems with the DW735 failing with an insert head, many must succeed because they keep selling them. I actually liked my (unmodified) DW724 better than the DW735 (unmodified) that I am using now. I say this so you will know my opinion is based on liking the DW734.

Since the Grizzly G0453Z has gone up so much in price (so has the DW734 and the DW735) I would lean toward the $425 head modification for the DW734. In the past I have recommended people buying a DW735 and an insert head wait a bit, save their dough, and get a floor machine. Now that the floor machine that I have is over $2000 the decision gets a little murky.

[Bill Dufour]

Location? how many used planers in your area. At that price I would buy a older powermatic or rockwell 16-18" planer with straight blades and a onboard grinder.
Bil lD

[Phillip Mitchell]

Where do you live and where are you looking for used machines? I’d buy used, good condition, high quality all day over spend more than $2k on a Grizzly just for a 15” helical head. You may not want used for all the little reasons and potential inconveniences that come along with used equipment and that’s fine, but you can often times find very high quality machines for 25-50% the cost of lesser quality new machines. It usually requires being able to load/move the machine on your own (or with help), assessing condition and having at least a basic knowledge and motivation to fix minor (or sometimes major) issues that you may discover after purchasing. That all takes time, money and energy in varying amounts on top of the used purchase price, but it can be a fantastic way to upgrade if you’re diligent, informed and motivated.

Helical heads are overrated, expensive, and in most cases, more hype than most people think. I’d much rather have a better built machine with (sharp) straight knives than a lesser built machine with helical head. Of course they can be convenient, but you certainly pay a price for being able to be lazy/less skilled by not setting your own knives.

Does the 734 not have replaceable knives that you can flip over, or buy a new set and the cutterhead indexes them automatically? I know my old 735 was like that and I could change all the knives to fresh in about 20 minutes and that included cleaning anything dirty/pitched up areas.

Its been said many times here and other places that the Dewalt lunchbox planers were not made to handle the additional load and stress of a helical cutterhead and plenty of folks have problems with the machine after they are installed. You might do some searching and reading about others’ experiences before going down that road.

How much width do you think you need? Do you have 220v (and how many amps) available for a potential new machine? Can your dust collector handle a more powerful planer that will be capable of both wider and deeper cuts that create a lot more chips to deal with?

Just some of my initial thoughts.

[Rod Sheridan]

I would never spend that kind of money to upgrade a disposable machine, and that's what portable planers are.

I have a Hammer A3-31 that's 10 years old, it replaced a General planer.

If I were you, I would buy a stationary planer and use it for the remainder of my life...............Regards, Rod.

[Andrew More]

Looks like I've opened a couple of cans of worms.

Helical vs Straight knives - My main objective here is to reduce the amount of fiddling I do with the machine. I had a 8" jointer with straight knives and had a terrible experience with it. I got all the knives sharpened, and set okay, not great, after messing with it for about 4 hours, with a jig. After running a few pieces of soft pine thought it, I nicked the blade, necessitating the need to redo the whole miserable experience. I've got two young kids, and very little time, doubly so for this level of aggravation. I am willing to spend money to avoid it, something I usually don't do. I understand others may have a different opinion, or experience, which is fine.

It IS possible to buy new blades for the DW734, but they're $50 a pop, and also seem to get nicked by the slightest knot. I'd rather replace the planer with the blades about worn out, than get a new planer after spending another $50.

I would seriously consider used if there were reasonable options available, but so far nothing major. I live in the greater Cincinnati area, and there just doesn't seem to be that many options at the 15"-20" and greater level. I've been checking Facebook market place, craigslist, and less frequently auction sites. Occasionally I'll see something a few hours away, but see above about the kids.

Thanks to Glenn's question I must admit I find myself a bit perplexed by Grizzly's pricing. I could buy a G0453 without the helical head for $1450, and add a head for $750, or I could buy their model G0453Z which is $2,200. The other models seem similar. Does this make any sense to anybody else? Almost seems like Grizzly is replacing the heads when they show up at the warehouse, and passing the cost along to the customers. Anyway, I don't mind the level of work necessary to replace the head, so that's making more sense to me. Also if I buy the machine that way, I can try it with the straight knives as suggested, and change it out later, if it proves as frustrating as the jointer. I'm going to email grizzly and find out why the large difference in price.

[Robert Engel]

One way to look at it is a planer is a thicknesser, not a surfacer. This is how I operate & I use a drum sander as a surfacer (and a thicknesser).

Then again, 10 sets of blades = a helical head.

[David Utterback]

Occasionally, their are listings on the Cincy CL for scratch and dent Powermatic tools from a vendor in mid-Kentucky, IIRC. I am unable to find them now. There is a Dayton listing for a NIB 735 for $550 or OBO which is not a great deal. There is also a NIB 15" delta planer listed about half way between Dayton and Indy. I searched for scratch and dent woodworking equipment and found a few vendors but did not look too closely.

[Jim Dwight]

I finished a dining room table I have been wanting to build in January. The top is made of 6 cherry boards planned from rough lumber to a finished thickness of just over 7/8 inch. The finished length of the table is 10 feet. I used my old Ryobi AP-10 thickness planner I bought used for $100. The guy I bought it from thought something was wrong with it but the knives were just VERY dull. Like butter knife dull. I could have saved myself some sanding if I had at least sharpened the knives before planning these boards but the table came out fine. I don't sharpen the knives when they get a little dull, I may shift them, however. You may not be able to do that with your DeWalt. But if you can slide them even a very small amount it may help. Or just sand the raised area when the knife is nicked until you feel like buying another set. I like the fact that the blades for my Ryobi are fairly easy to sharpen and not terribly difficult to set when I'm done. But I do not do it as often as I probably should because it is still a hassle.

Your DeWalt 734 while more expansive in blades than my Ryobi is still more capable than my Ryobi. I would keep it and determine another tool to purchase. If you don't have a track saw or a domino I would think about one or both of them. If you have young kids we are pretty far apart in age, I have young grandkids, and I thus have more time for my hobbies than you do. But after decades of struggling with sheets of plywood on my table saw and with cutting mortises on a hollow chisel mortiser I was very pleasantly surprised with the ease of using a track saw and a domino. I think these tools would do more to make your time productive in the shop than a better planner would.

If you already have all the other tools you can use and are dead set on a planner with a helical head there are portable style planners that come with helical heads. I've dreamed some about getting one but will probably just stick with the old Ryobi, at least until it dies.

[Mitchell Ristine]

If you go the grizzly route pay close attention to the type of head. Spiral and Helical are NOT the same. It has to do with the orientation of the cutter. Spiral are perpendicular to the wood. Helical are at an angle such to create a shearing cut. FWIW I went from a 734 to a G0891. I would NEVER go back. The HP and noise reduction are fantastic. And the helical head it MUCH more forgiving on highly figured wood.

[Charlie Jones]

About four years age I sold my old Delta 540 lunchbox planer. It was a great little machine but noisy. I replaced it with a Grizzly 1037z Planer Molder. It is a great heavy duty machine. It does have straight knives. I have learned to grind them myself. That is a satisfying experience. The machine runs on 120 but can be converted to 240. It has 13” capacity. I bought it because of lack of room for a big machine. With sharp knives it will produce a sanding quality finish. The head has jack screws and the knives are easy to set. I highly recommend it. It sells for around 900.00.

[Michael Drew]

You might want to look at Cutech planers if you want to stick with a lunchbox machine. You can get one with a spiral cutting head (not to be confused with helicle). I'm in the process of swapping out my Rigid planer cutter head with a Cutech cutterhead and carbide cutters. But - if I had the space for a 15" planer, I'd go that route over a lunchbox.

[Phil Gaudio]

Only you know what your budget is, your needs are, and your desires are. I have the DW735 13" planer and have been using this for around 16 years now. Great performance and very easy knife changes with no calibration whatsoever (don't minimize the importance of that fact). You could do a lot worse than moving up to the DW735. And by the way: stick with the OEM knives: you don't need the shelix head unless you are doing lots of challenging exotics/grains. Nice to have two speeds on this unit. Still noisy as hell (as all universal motor units are) but an exceptional product from DeWalt. Made in Taiwan (at least its not china).

[Jeremy Andrews]

I am pretty new to woodworking but have dabbled for several years in metalworking. That being said, like you I have little kids and little time. When I decided I wanted to get into woodworking more seriously I went through the choice of outfitting my shop last fall with $2000 worth of big box "toys" or step in to mid priced machines. I ended up with the mid priced machines.

I purchased the the G1021X2, a 15" Helical Head. It showed up needing minor assembly and no adjustments except for the scale. Worked great right out the of the gates and has been a pleasure to use. I have not run a 'lunch box planer' so I can't compare, but having used hobby grade vs. industrial grade metal machines, I am happy I went with the heavier machine to begin with.

Not sure of you space constraints, but the Grizzly is obviously going to permanently take up floor space.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Not to "Rain on your parade," but with the tax cuts last year, and decreased with holding, you may not be getting a windfall. Many are finding that they have to pay in after years of refunds. FYI, last year was the first time in over forty years, we didn't have to pay in. We got a refund of, brace yourself, $4.99. Blew in one trip to Burger King. Did our part to stimulate the economy.

[Ryan Yeaglin]

Unless you plan on using A lot of figured wood, I would keep the 734 until it kicks the bucket. Infinity makes carbide knives for the 734, but they are expensive, depends on how much you hate changing knives. You can put a ported and polished set of heads on a Honda civic and it will do better, but it will still not perform like a V8. The point being except the 734 for what it is, if you want power and less noise, a stationary planer is what your after.

[Mike Henderson]

If you really want to upgrade, I'd get a floor model with an induction motor and a helical head. As Rod mentioned, that should last you the rest of your life unless you decide to go wider.

I thought of putting a helical head in my 735 but decided that I'd just stick to replacing the blades. The blades last longer now than when the machine first came out. I guess they improved the steel.

Mike

[Tom Bain]

I used a DW734 for years before moving into a larger shop and getting an industrial 20” spiral head planer ... but even if you get a new planer I would recommend keeping the DW734. I still use it on occasion when planing reclaimed wood, really soft wood (rubber rollers are better for that), or wood with a lot pitch. If I blow up the knives on the 734 I can easily replace them ... not so much on the 20” spiral carbide cutter head.

[Bryan Cramer]

I went the same route upgrading the same machine to a Grizzly 15”. The helical head has the cutters oriented straight and it does a fine job. My jointer I upgraded with a Shelix and the difference is minimal but noticeable on narly woods. Difference between starting sanding at 120 or 150. Maybe save up one more year and get a jointer planer combo. One an done unit that’ll last a lifetime for a hobby. Take a look at the Hammer line.

[Myles Moran]

You mentioned issue with the blades on the 734. Are you using dewalt blades? I've been underwhelmed with the stock blades on my 735, and I'll be looking at after market blades once I flip the 2nd set of blades on mine. Looks like infinity also has their HSS and carbide blades for the 734, as I'm sure others do as well. That might be worth trying as you're getting the easy of use with indexed blades at a fairly palatable cost.

[Curt Putnam]

If you have an 8" jointer, then a 15" planer makes sense. If you jointer is a 6", then stay with a 13" planer.

[Robert London]

I wouldn’t spend $2200 on a 15” stationary in your situation. The $450 spiral will breathe new life into your old dewalt, reduce noise and save you money on blades in the long run. Especially if you’re busy with 2 kids and not much time.

You’ll never have a problem selling the dewalt with a spiral already installed. Easier to sell portable planers and don’t need a truck.

The noise reduction alone is almost worth it. Straight knife portable planers are crazy loud. The spiral heads make them much more enjoyable especially if you’re a weekend garage warrior in a subdivision.

[johnny means]

A $400+ cutter head on a lunch box planer seems like Mickey Thompson slicks on a Corrolla to me. You may max out your performance, but it's still a Corolla.

[George Waldner]

If your planer wears out you can sell the cutterhead on eBay. You will get a large chunk of your money back.

[Andrew More]

Re: Grizzly 1037z or other Planer Molders - I've looked at that a few times, and I must admit I'm intrigued, partially because one of the projects I'd like to tackle is replacing all our current molding. 100 year old house, and a lot of the original molding has been painted, or replaced. The ones that have had either are pretty beat up, and nothing special, other than being 100 years old. However, I don't understand why those machines are all so narrow, none being larger than 13". The more standard 15" planers also seem to have a more rugged build.

@Jeremy Andrews - The lunch box is fine for what it is, in the same manner a hand drill is fine, but not as heavy duty as a drill press or a mill. Having seen it torn down in various videos to replace the cutter head, it's clear that its well built, but limited by it's nature as a "portable" planer, rather than being cheaply made.

@Bruce Wrenn - Good point, just did my taxes, getting about what I usually get.

@Myles - Yes, these are the DeWalt blades, I wasn't aware anybody else made blades for it, I might check out the Infinity blades, since I've heard a number of people complain about the DeWalt models. Their carbide seem like I might as well go with the Helical head, but the HSS might be worth a try.

@Curt - I've got a 8" jointer, I don't understand why that would effect the size of the planer. Is that based on the assumption I'd glue to boards together and feed it through that way?

@George Waldner - Good point. I could also buy another DW734 for that matter.

[Charlie Jones]

I don’t know why my 1037z is 13” as opposed to 15” but in my case it is an advantage. The machine is heavy steel, much heavier and solid than a lunchbox. It was made in Taiwan and does a great job. I haven’t tried it as a moulder yet but the accessories for using it were included. You would have to buy the knives.

[Andrew More]

Bit of follow up. Called the local woodworking equipment company in town, and they had a floor model W1742H they were willing to deal on. Got it for $1850 + tax. This is basically the Shop Fox version of the G0453Z I was looking at, only this one comes with a true helical head, instead of the spiral head on the G0453Z.

451707

Once I got it home, the real fun of trying to get it off the trailer without a fork lift, or engine hoist started. Decided to use a 1 ton winch, attached to the ceiling with 3/8" chain.
451708

Nothing says excitement like dangling $2000 worth of equipment 2' off the floor while your 2x6 joints crack and groan under the weight.
451709

But I got it down without injuring or damage to the machine.
451710

Going to get it reassembled tomorrow, and then the fun begins. Probably going to put it where the DeWalt currently sits, while it will be moving into storage and the cabinet will finally meet it's long delayed fate. (It's from a kitchen remodel my parents did in the 90s.) Also going to need to run some new electricals in the shop for a new 220V outlet.

[Mike Henderson]

That looks great. I've been thinking of going to a 15" planer, also. One reason to reduce the noise of my DeWalt 735. Let us know how it works out for you.

Mike

[Andrew More]

That looks great. I've been thinking of going to a 15" planer, also. One reason to reduce the noise of my DeWalt 735. Let us know how it works out for you.

We ran this planer in the store, and it has a helical head. My current 734 is one of the loudest tools in the shop, the new planer was so quiet I could talk at a normal conversation level with the salesman.

On thing I don't hear discussed much is that the motor on the new planer is about the size of my lunchbox planer, while the motor of the lunchbox has to be about the size of a orange or can of coke. I'm surprised these benchtop planers work at all.

All that being said, I can't help noticing in his last video Jimmy Diresta was using an old delta on the floor of his shop. He's got access to a number of tools, including a nice, old iron planer (can't remember the model). I don't think I've seen him use it.

[Mike Henderson]

The difference is that the motor in your ShopFox is an induction motor and turns at either 1725 RPM or 3450 RPM. Because of the design of an induction motor it has to be a certain physical size to produce a certain HP.

The lunchbox planers use a Universal motor that turns much faster, perhaps as high as 20,000 RPM.

Horsepower in electric motors is equal to the torque of the motor, times the RPM, times a constant factor. Those small universal motors don't have a lot of torque but they make up for it with the RPMs. The RPMs are usually what causes all the noise.

Mike

[Andrew More]

Thanks, I was aware of the difference, but I'm more asking why the darned thing doesn't instantly implode, since it sounds like it's ripping it's guts out. 20K RPM might be a bit low for the demonic screech from hell put out by these infernal engines. :)

[Jim Becker]

Andrew, you will find that some folks use both a large, stationary planer for heavy work and have a smaller, portable planer with rubber rollers for some other kinds of work, especially for sneaking up on a thickness without marking the material with steel feed rollers.

[Andrew More]

Andrew, you will find that some folks use both a large, stationary planer for heavy work and have a smaller, portable planer with rubber rollers for some other kinds of work, especially for sneaking up on a thickness without marking the material with steel feed rollers.

Yeah, one of the salesmen mention that. He mentioned small parts as a good reason, but to be frank, I'm not see a minimum length in the manual, and the feed rollers seem pretty close to me.

[Jim Becker]

Minimum length is always longer than you need. :) :D Seriously, it's always a best practice to thickness before sizing down. Even a drum sander has a minimum length because of the distance between the "hold down" rollers at infeed and outfeed. The portable planers can sometimes work better for material thinner than a quarter inch, but still have a practical lower limit only a little bit less, too. That's a reason I now have a drum sander back in my shop as well as to fine tune thickness. My J/P can leave marks when the cut is less than a quarter to a half millimeter, depending on the species.