Buying First Turning Tools (set advice and/or individual)

[Allen Mattsen]

After many searches, YouTube videos, various research, etc, I've finally come to you folks for some advice. I'm ready to buy my first turning tools. I have a new midi lathe (Laguna Revo 1216) and will soon have a grinder and CBN wheels on the way. I need help deciding on my first turning tools. I understand they should be HSS, preferably M2 (or better).

Candidates include:

PSI / Benjamin's Best [$75] Set includes (8) chisels 3/16" Parting Tool 5/8" Spear Scraper 1" Skew Chisel 5/8" Skew Chisel 5/8" Round Nose Scraper 1/2" Bowl Gouge 3/4" Spindle Gouge 7/8" Roughing Gouge

Robert Sorby 67HS [$234] 6 Piece Lathe Turning Set with 3/4" Spindle Roughing Gouge, 3/8" Spindle Gouge, 3/8" Bowl Gouge, 3/4" Standard Skew Chisel, 1/8" Parting Tool and 1/2" Round Nose Scraper 67HS


...or others...

My goals are to begin turning boxes, some mallet handles, tool handles, and also get to doing bowls and other things.
(No pen turning).

I've read/seen info that I should begin with these tools, but input gladly appreciated:

3/8" spindle gouge
1/2" bowl gouge
3/4 or 1" skew
1/8 or 1/4" parting tool
1/2 or 1" round nose scraper
3/4 or 1" spindle roughing gouge

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
Should I begin with an inexpensive set (PSI), decent set (Sorby or other), -OR- buy a few necessary tools and add quality tools individually?

I'm not the guy who has to have the best and realize sharpening will be a learning curve, though I am experienced sharpening hand tools already, I know it's different and new. At the same time, I don't really want to waste money only to upgrade later. I will get high quality tools sooner or later. Perhaps a set of tools and a select quality item or two that I'm not thinking about? Is there a specific grind or type of tool I'll likely want and use often that isn't included in one of the sets? Are there a few tools I can buy good quality of and avoid buying a whole set and go that route?

Thanks!

[John K Jordan]

One long-time sage advice is if starting and learning to sharpen, buy a set of cheaper tools. You may grind a lot of the useful length away while learning.

Then later, based on what tools you find the most useful for the type of turning you discover you like, either buy a better set or it may be smarter in the long run to get them individually. Of the set you mentioned, all will be useful. One advantage to buying individually is you might want more variety than what you can find in any set. For example, I use skew chisels from 1/4" to 1-1/4" depending on what I'm turning or teaching. I use spindle gouges sized 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". I keep a variety of scrapers ground different ways - each is useful for specific things.

I personally am a big fan of Thompson tools. I never buy them with handles, both for storage reasons and because I'm particular about my handles. I keep several dozen unhandled tools in one wide, shallow drawer. I make handles such that I can insert different tools as needed. For example, I really enjoy spindle turning so I keep multiple 3/8" spindle gouges all ground identically - when one gets dull I lay it aside and put a sharp one in the handle and keep going. When they all get dull I stop and sharpen all of them - this way I only have to set up the sharpening system once for that gouge (the thing that takes the most time), after which sharpening each one only takes 30 seconds or so.

Remember that even the cheapest tools are more than sufficient for most turning. The difference between different types of steel is mostly how long you can work before resharpening. When I started turning about 20 years ago I bought a set of HSS tools at Sears. I still use some today even though I have an embarrassing number of lathe tools. [hangs head in shame]

One word of caution about cheap tools. I don't remember about the Benjamin's but some cheap tools are not hardened all the way down the flute. I keep a box of cheap or free tools that I give or loan to students. In testing, I find that some are only hardened for the first inch or so! You can easily test: I use a small triangular file. Try filing on the shank of the tool - if the file skates across the steel without biting in the steel is hardened at that point. If the file cuts into the steel it is NOT hardened at that point.

JKJ

[Melvin Feng]

I started my traditional gouge purchases very conservatively, because like you, I didn't know exactly what I needed, or how to sharpen properly. I actually used Easy Wood Tools exclusively for many years before investing in traditional tooling and sharpening.

It is really hard for me to give advice to other turners, because I don't know what kind of projects you have in mind, and then also what direction your turning will take you. As a quick example, for the first many years of turning for me, I was really just doing pens and small pieces, and only recently have I been getting more into bowls (I also have a 12/16, though I started with the midi harbor freight!).

So, if you plan on doing mostly spindle work, then your purchases should align more with that, and the same mentality holds true if you plan on doing more bowls. Those sets will get you started in either.

My gut would be to start with the Benjamin's Best kit, learn how to sharpen well, and then just start working at the lathe. Try different kits of all sorts (pens, ornaments, salt/pepper shakers, etc.), try some cups and then bowls, etc. I would always recommend starting small and slow before going big and fast.

There are some great youtubers out there with really great educational turning content. One that I think has been great, is a fairly small channel still, but I think he has some great content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDwV2Djnj756vpxL51zd4Uw

For sharpening with the CBN wheels, you also need to make a decision on how many wheels, and what grits, as well as your sharpening jig that you want to use. I personally use the Oneway Wolverine system, and I think it is great. I have additional Vari-grind 1 jigs for the different gouges I sharpen, and also a robo rest for my flat tools (unfortunately, he closed up shop, so you can't buy this anymore). For bowl gouges, I also bought the Ellsworth grinding jig, and fashioned setup blocks to use it on the Vee arm of the wolverine system. I've been really liking the Ellsworth grind, and also have the Ellsworth signature gouge, and also use this grind on my D-way 5/8" bowl gouge (these have a 1/2" flute, so you need to check the details of what you are buying if they are referencing the flute or the shaft).

My main tooling is D-way now, but there are many great manufacturers out there. I actually still have my Easy Wood Tools, and I've also added some Hunter Carbide tools for specialty uses (I have their badger set for hollowing in addition to a #3 Easy Wood tools swan neck hollower). I learned how to sharpen on my cheaper tools first, as D-Way tools aren't cheap! I do really enjoy using my D-way Tools, and have a good number (though not nearly as many as John who posted above me!)

[roger wiegand]

One problem with sets is that different tools are better with different length handles and sets tend to come with one size of handle so they look pretty in the box. I almost exclusively buy unhandled tools now and use them in an interchangeable handle system, or if it's a tool I use frequently I make it the perfect handle for my hands and the tool.

You know yourself, but most people who already know tools will only go through 1/4" of steel or less learning to sharpen; a really good tool will last for 5-20 years. Yo don't want to feel stuck with your practice set.

Starting out I'd work on spindle turning. For that I think the minimum tool set would be a parting tool, spindle roughing gouge (at least 1"), 1" to 1-3/8" skew. 3/8" detail gouge, and a round nose scraper, probably ground with a negative rake. Those five tools will let you turn about 90% of anything you'd want to do between centers. To expand to bowls I'd add a 5/8" shaft size bowl gouge with an Ellsworth grind. I really like Doug Thompson's tools as well. Those six tools will set you back several hundred dollars, but will last a very long time and can be easily resold if you change your mind. (you can go cheap on the parting tool!)

[Reed Gray]

Your list of tools above are what I would consider a good starting set. I guess part of selecting what you will want and need is dependent on your lathe. If you have a 16 or bigger lathe, then go with the larger sized tools. If you have a minl lathe, then go with the smaller tools, except for the parting tool, generally thinner is better. Once you get into bowls, you will want at least 2 gouges. One with a more pointed nose, like the 40/40 grind, and a bottom of bowl gouge, which has about a 60 or 70 degree bevel angle. For scrapers, I would suggest 2, one a standard scraper, and one ground to be a NRS (negative rake scraper). Both can be handy, and with the round nose, you can cut in either direction. I would go with at least M2HSS, and not stuff that is just listed as 'HSS' as that kind of quality is not dependable. I have a bunch of videos up on You Tube, mostly about bowl turning, but a lot about sharpening. I am one who prefers to buy better quality tools to start. I still have some tools from the first set I got, back in the days when there were not all the specialty tools around. None of them ever got worn down so short that they were not sharpenable any more. Woodcraft does carry some nice tools. Thompson and D Way have some of the best out there. Packard and Craft Supplies are also good sources, and Lee Valley has some good tools also.

robo hippy

[David Walser]

One long-time sage advice is if starting and learning to sharpen, buy a set of cheaper tools. You may grind a lot of the useful length away while learning.

...

I'm one of those who offered such advice whenever the subject came up. I still think it can be good advice. However, whether it's a good approach to take depends, in my view on whether or not the new turner will be equipped with a good sharpening station. Even with A/O wheels, with a decent grinder and jig, most can become proficient in sharpening without wasting too much steel. On the other hand, the quality of steel (and tempering) is widely variable. A new turner may not know if his or her problem in getting a clean cut is due to their turning technique, poor sharpening, or the poor quality of the steel in that particular example of Brand X tools. For that reason, if a decent grinding station is available, I recommend getting a few quality tools (that may or may not come in a set) from a reputable brand, such as Sorby, Hamlet, Crown, or Henry Taylor (or a house brand from a turning supply store that's made by one of those brands). Then, if turning becomes a passion, the now some-what experienced turner can step up to more premium brands if he or she desires.

[Alex Zeller]

I would buy individual tools. You are going to end up with a lot of stuff that you rarely, if ever, use. Why start out buying a set that you might only use half of and then as you get better you most likely will replace the most often used ones with nicer versions. I would like to add to what David said about sharpening. A good jig is going to reduce the amount of steel being ground off. At first you'll remove a fair bit as the grind on the tool isn't going to match what the jig and your grinder will do. But after it's now ground to the new shape you are only going to be touching it up. You've already thrown a bunch of money at this hobby why save a couple bucks knowing that you'll just spend the money down the road.

If you're looking for tools on the budget side I would suggest Crown. They seem to have several versions of steel and (at least when I bought one) the prices were more in the middle range. There's several other brands that also fall into this category. I have a Crown bowl gouge that I bought right off. I think it was one of the powdered metal ones. It's my go to when I need to hog out wood or dealing with bark. It's a good enough quality so it holds an edge but I also don't mind abusing it. I'm sure the expensive gouges I have would also do it but I just like saving them for finish work.

[Allen Mattsen]

For example, I know I want to use/learn negative rake scrapers and specific grinds for gouges which will be tough if buying a set...

[Allen Mattsen]

If I can get my list down we'll enough I may go the individual route. Learning handles when choosing specific tools sold without it tough for me to figure out right now. Buying a grinder, CBN wheels, and jigs (Wolverine) plus tools is balancing act ��. I am refining things a bit by reading this thread and asking some other people. Progress...

This one looks nice, and I do need one for small boxes, I've been told:

Crown 236PM 3/8-Inch 10-mm Powder Metallurgy Spindle Gouge

First I've read anything about PM tools, tbh

[Earl McLain]

I'm in need of spindle gouges--and this afternoon ordered the Crown 236RAZ (Razor), after waffling between it and the Powder Metallurgy. Did the 1/4" as well. I bought a variety of used tools over the past few years--but none for spindle work. Most of my starter Benjamin's Best have been used regularly, and are okay tools--i find the spindle gouge lacking. I do have a Taylor with swept wings, great to finish with, but hard to control for shaping. I don't want to alter its grind though.
earl

[carl mesaros]

After many searches, YouTube videos, various research, etc, I've finally come to you folks for some advice. I'm ready to buy my first turning tools. I have a new midi lathe (Laguna Revo 1216) and will soon have a grinder and CBN wheels on the way. I need help deciding on my first turning tools. I understand they should be HSS, preferably M2 (or better).

Candidates include:

PSI / Benjamin's Best [$75] Set includes (8) chisels 3/16" Parting Tool 5/8" Spear Scraper 1" Skew Chisel 5/8" Skew Chisel 5/8" Round Nose Scraper 1/2" Bowl Gouge 3/4" Spindle Gouge 7/8" Roughing Gouge

Robert Sorby 67HS [$234] 6 Piece Lathe Turning Set with 3/4" Spindle Roughing Gouge, 3/8" Spindle Gouge, 3/8" Bowl Gouge, 3/4" Standard Skew Chisel, 1/8" Parting Tool and 1/2" Round Nose Scraper 67HS


...or others...

My goals are to begin turning boxes, some mallet handles, tool handles, and also get to doing bowls and other things.
(No pen turning).

I've read/seen info that I should begin with these tools, but input gladly appreciated:

3/8" spindle gouge
1/2" bowl gouge
3/4 or 1" skew
1/8 or 1/4" parting tool
1/2 or 1" round nose scraper
3/4 or 1" spindle roughing gouge

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
Should I begin with an inexpensive set (PSI), decent set (Sorby or other), -OR- buy a few necessary tools and add quality tools individually?

I'm not the guy who has to have the best and realize sharpening will be a learning curve, though I am experienced sharpening hand tools already, I know it's different and new. At the same time, I don't really want to waste money only to upgrade later. I will get high quality tools sooner or later. Perhaps a set of tools and a select quality item or two that I'm not thinking about? Is there a specific grind or type of tool I'll likely want and use often that isn't included in one of the sets? Are there a few tools I can buy good quality of and avoid buying a whole set and go that route?

Thanks!
Lots of great advice here.
Just my 2 cents. I started out just like you smaller lathe etc. I bought the Woodriver set from Woodcraft. It served me well and then added higher grade tools as I gained experience.
D-way became one of my favorite brands. I would recommend purchasing their parting tool right away. It has a design I haven't seen from other manufacturers. It is thicker on the bottom narowwer on top. Helps a lot against binding.
Sorby also makes decent tools. Benjamins Best? Not so much.
As to sharpening I'll get beat on here as the CBN wheels seem to be the overwhelming favorite for sharpening. I just love the Sorbey Pro Edge sharpening system. So fast when changing sharpening angles. Fast to change belt grits too.I profiled all my gouges with a sixty grit and the switched to 120 or 180 to maintain sharpness. No learning curve involved, just watch the 5 minute video.
Have fun.

[Melvin Feng]

If I can get my list down we'll enough I may go the individual route. Learning handles when choosing specific tools sold without it tough for me to figure out right now. Buying a grinder, CBN wheels, and jigs (Wolverine) plus tools is balancing act 😎. I am refining things a bit by reading this thread and asking some other people. Progress...

This one looks nice, and I do need one for small boxes, I've been told:

Crown 236PM 3/8-Inch 10-mm Powder Metallurgy Spindle Gouge

First I've read anything about PM tools, tbh

Tooling is definitely a huge expense, and I think for many of us, we have spent more on tooling than we did on the lathe at this point. Do you have an idea of the types of projects you want to start with? Maybe get the tools specific to those projects first, and then expand as your desires expand.

Also, have you thought about chucks? Working between centers is still standard practice, but different chucks or holding methods makes things easier, and in many cases safer as well. Most of us who have turned for a while will have a collection of chucks of different styles and especially different jaws for specific purposes - but that's the thing, you need to figure out what you want to do and be able to do before you start making some of these other big purchases.

The other thing, as you've noticed, is that we all come from different backgrounds, with different types of turning that we prefer, so we all will have our own individual biases. One isn't right or wrong for you, they just give you a wide perspective of the different ways to approach turning.

[David Walser]

...
As to sharpening I'll get beat on here as the CBN wheels seem to be the overwhelming favorite for sharpening. I just love the Sorbey Pro Edge sharpening system. So fast when changing sharpening angles. Fast to change belt grits too.I profiled all my gouges with a sixty grit and the switched to 120 or 180 to maintain sharpness. No learning curve involved, just watch the 5 minute video. ...

I won't beat you up for liking and using the Sorby Pro Edge. It looks to be very nice. My ONLY concern is that it produces a flat grind. Other grinders, those using wheels rather than a belt, produce a hollow grind. Both types of grinds have advantages. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. However, if you're used to a hollow grind, a flat grind can make it harder get the 'feel' of a tool. The same works in reverse. My thought when the Pro Edge came out was that might make it harder to turn at a club meeting where everyone is using the tools made available.

Having said that, I may have bought the Pro Edge when it came out had I not just purchased the Tormek. I really liked Sorby's jigs for using with the Pro Edge, their spindle gouge jig is basically a clone of Tormek's -- which is the best gouge jig. Much better than the Wolverine.

[John K Jordan]

I won't beat you up for liking and using the Sorby Pro Edge. It looks to be very nice. My ONLY concern is that it produces a flat grind. ...

I agree. Although there is nothing wrong with turning with a flat bevel, my concern is compared to a concave bevel it is difficult to effectively hone the tool by hand to restore the edge. (my opinion about this is based on experimenting with both flat and concave bevels.)

With a concave bevel you support the hand-held hone firmly between the edge and the heel of the bevel, the combination in effect acting as a incredibly easy-to-use hand-held sharpening jig. Honing only removes a tiny sliver at the edge and the support at the heal insures the geometry is not compromised. With a flat bevel honing by hand isn't easy or perhaps not practical to keep the flat geometry.

Mike Darlow describes this in his '99 book Fundamentals of Woodturning on pages 46-47 and on page 56. Likewise, Richard Raffan has the same advice on pages 60-61 in the third edition of his book Turning Wood. He points out that without contacting the bevel at both the heel and the edge the risk is "you'll either round the edge or create a secondary bevel, which will make the tool very difficult to use." I see Raffan shows the same diamond hones I eventually stick to after trying many, the Eze-Lap - I primarily use the blue extra fine for lathe tools.

451136

I typically hone an edge several times between sharpening, then strop for a razor edge on a hard surface (wood or MDF) doped with polishing compound. Honing too many times removes too much metal and becomes counter productive.

JKJ

[Scott Winners]

Newish turner here. I loved turning in Junior High School decades ago, and just bought my first lathe this winter. I am firmly in favor of starting with a cheap set of tools, HSS or better, to learn to sharpen on. You can turn with them while they are sharp of course, but I am really glad I started with a set of inexpensive tools because I made a LOT of sharpening mistakes that took me back to the bench grinder to clean up my mess and start over. I will probably make some more similar mistakes in the future too.

I got 8 lathe tools off Craigslist for $75, so less than $10 per stick. No sweat. I did get my first $$ tool in the mail just today, but it is a tool I use a lot and one I know how to sharpen correctly.

[William C Rogers]

It’s hard to recommend what way to go. The Sorby you set is a good set of tools. You will use all those tools later on. If turning larger bowls 10 - 16” then a 1/2” or 5/8 “ bowl gouge would be better. I have a 3/8” bowl gouge, but don’t use it very much. The BB bowl gouges were not good for me. I actually bent my 1/2” BB bowl gouge as noted some less expensive tools are not hardened more than an inch back. However I have some BB scrapers that work well. My first set of tools were HF red handle tools, set of 8. The steel in the HF tools was decent and still use 4-5 today. I have seen where he white handle HF tools may not be as good. Others in the set were re-purposed. For me it was a value starting out, but eventually I think you will purchase higher quality tools.

[David Walser]

...My first set of tools were HF red handle tools, set of 8. The steel in the HF tools was decent and still use 4-5 today. I have seen where he white handle HF tools may not be as good. Others in the set were re-purposed. For me it was a value starting out, but eventually I think you will purchase higher quality tools.

I agree with everything the handsome and talented Mr. Rogers had to say (including the part I quoted, above). For this reason, I know him to be a man of great sagacity.

The reason I quote the portion of his comments is to point out the crapshoot involved in buying the cheaper chinasium tools from whatever source. I, too, started with a HF tool set. Mine was the less expensive white handled set. (At the time, the white handles tools were on sale and were in stock at my local store. The red handled tools were not on sale nor were they in stock.) Every tool in that set has served me well and still makes up part of my arsenal. Five years later, or so, the red handled tools were on sale and in stock. I'd heard so many good things about this better quality set that I bought one. Over half the tools in the set were poorly tempered and will not hold an edge! This result was despite the nearly universal belief that the red handled set were much better than the white handled set. This is one of the reasons I no longer recommend going this route. Had I bought a 'bad' example of HF's turning tools, I would not have had the experience to know that it was the tool's poor temper and not my turning technique or poor sharpening that was causing the problem.

I also no longer recommend this route for another reason. These cheap tools require a lot of work to get them into useable shape. For example, the skews in my 'good' HF set came with sharp corners on all the edges of the tool. I had a nicer skew from Hamlet where the corners had been relieved. With the exception of the bevel, the Hamlet skew also had been polished to the point no machining marks were visible. That wasn't the case with my HF skews (or any of the other tools in the set). In my ignorance, I assumed such details were merely cosmetic and didn't affect the way the tool worked. I used those skews for over two years before gaining the experience to know that the sharp corners and mill marks prevented the skew from sliding easily across the tool rest. The sharp corners were a particular problem. They nicked my cast iron tool rest. But, even the milling marks cause issues. With my gouges, the inside of the flutes weren't polished. This prevented the edge from being as sharp as it otherwise would have been. Also, with all the tools, the mill marks made it easier for gunk to stick to the tools. Again, this made the tools harder to slide along the tool rest.

Addressing these issues required a lot of time and effort to correct. In the end, I got some serviceable tools. So, if you know what you're doing and have the time, you can save some money going this route. However, I spent two years or more with frustrations that were caused by the poor finish of these tools. As a new turner, I was simply too inexperienced to know the source of my frustrations -- and blamed myself rather than the tools. So, again, for a new turner, I think such tools are a mistake. Even if the newbie is lucky and gets properly tempered tools, he or she is apt to become frustrated because the tools are making it more difficult to learn the craft.

[Allen Mattsen]

I want to start with small boxes and some tool & mallet handles and also get to doing bowls. As far as chucks, I have a Nova pro tek G3 bundle on the way.

[roger wiegand]

I love the teardrop diamond hone that Alan Lacer sells for both honing the bevel on gouges and skews and then polishing the inside of gouge flutes. I also use it to knock down the burr on scrapers prior to pulling a new one with a carbide burnisher. Saves many, many trips to the grinder.

451183

[John K Jordan]

... no longer recommend this route for another reason. These cheap tools require a lot of work to get them into useable shape. For example, the skews in my 'good' HF set came with sharp corners on all the edges of the tool. I had a nicer skew from Hamlet where the corners had been relieved. With the exception of the bevel, the Hamlet skew also had been polished to the point no machining marks were visible. That wasn't the case with my HF skews (or any of the other tools in the set). In my ignorance, I assumed such details were merely cosmetic and didn't affect the way the tool worked....

This is certainly true. Many of the cheaper tools require some work.

Hey, have you tried the Thompson skews? Not only is the finish good I like the way he puts a semicircular radius on the entire bottom edge. I don't care much for his grinds but the 10V steel is great.

JKJ

[David Walser]

John -- I have two of Doug Thompson's skews. They are excellent. I agree that his grind isn't the one I prefer -- too much skew angle for my taste -- but I really like the tools. I also have some of his spindle gouges. IIRC, a 1/2" spindle gouge, a 3/8" detail gouge, and a 1/4" spindle gouge. I don't have one of his bowl gouges. I'll probably acquire some, but I have several that were made by Hamlet or Henry Taylor. Doug's steel is better, but the steel from Sheffield, England, isn't bad. Since I don't turn a lot of bowls anymore, it's going to take a while for me to wear out those gouges.

[Scott Winners]

These cheap tools require a lot of work to get them into useable shape. For example, the skews in my 'good' HF set came with sharp corners on all the edges of the tool. I had a nicer skew from Hamlet where the corners had been relieved. With the exception of the bevel, the Hamlet skew also had been polished to the point no machining marks were visible. That wasn't the case with my HF skews (or any of the other tools in the set). In my ignorance, I assumed such details were merely cosmetic and didn't affect the way the tool worked. I used those skews for over two years before gaining the experience to know that the sharp corners and mill marks prevented the skew from sliding easily across the tool rest. The sharp corners were a particular problem. They nicked my cast iron tool rest.

So, again, for a new turner, I think such tools are a mistake. Even if the newbie is lucky and gets properly tempered tools, he or she is apt to become frustrated because the tools are making it more difficult to learn the craft.

Full disclosure, my entry level set are Buck Bros HSS. The corners of the skew were square. The corners dug into my cast iron tool rest. I clamped the skew in my metal vise, took a file to it to relieve the edges, then dressed the top surface of my tool rest. I didn't like it, so I made my corners more rounded on my skew. I am probably going to make the corners of my skew even a little more round (third trip to the vise) and dress my tool rest again (second time).

I am learning to make shearing cuts with my skew, that is get to round, and I do like having plenty of flat surface to register on the tool rest for that.

I do agree utterly crap tools are a waste of money, but I am still glad I am growing into the spinny rabbit hole with tools I am fearless about grinding or modifying.

[Allen Mattsen]

I love the teardrop diamond hone that Alan Lacer sells for both honing the bevel on gouges and skews and then polishing the inside of gouge flutes. I also use it to knock down the burr on scrapers prior to pulling a new one with a carbide burnisher. Saves many, many trips to the grinder.

451183

This looks ideal! I have diamond stones for my hand tools and this is definitely something I can wrap my head around 😎

[William C Rogers]

I agree with everything the handsome and talented Mr. Rogers had to say (including the part I quoted, above). For this reason, I know him to be a man of great sagacity.



Oh my gosh! This is the best (only) compliment I have ever received.

The very talented and experienced Mr. Walser posted in a very easy way to understand, that there is a big risk buying the less expensive tools. Sometimes it works, but other times it causes headaches. He is right on point about the finish and quality of good tools.

[Allen Mattsen]

Well, given the fact my sharpening tools are delayed, perhaps I can whiddle this down some more and put a finer point on which specific tools to focus on if I were to buy some higher quality tools at the start. While all of you may be wonderful and talented I am perhaps neither 😅.

What I know,
Equipment: I will be using a Laguna 1216 lathe (12-1/2" swing, 15-1/2" between centers (stock)), Nova Pro-tek G3 chuck, and a sharpening system (Grinder/CBN wheels 180/600), jigs TBD.

What I want to make: small boxes, bowls (not huge ones, obviously), mallet and tool handles, and grow over time beyond that.

Perhaps I will get a $90 PSI set for learning on sharpening and all the setups and jigs. BUT, after having a basic set in hand, how best do I decide where to focus the next individual turning tool purchases/investment ie higher quality steel & manufacturers but more specifically I have are which tools might I want to immediately upgrade, change, or add that aren't part of the basic set? What have you found indispensable with experience?

3/8 spindle gouge - but a fingernail grind?
What kind/size negative rake scraper?
A Bowl gouge that doesn't suck?
Etc.

[Melvin Feng]

Well, given the fact my sharpening tools are delayed, perhaps I can whiddle this down some more and put a finer point on which specific tools to focus on if I were to buy some higher quality tools at the start. While all of you may be wonderful and talented I am perhaps neither .

What I know,
Equipment: I will be using a Laguna 1216 lathe (12-1/2" swing, 15-1/2" between centers (stock)), Nova Pro-tek G3 chuck, and a sharpening system (Grinder/CBN wheels 180/600), jigs TBD.

What I want to make: small boxes, bowls (not huge ones, obviously), mallet and tool handles, and grow over time beyond that.

Perhaps I will get a $90 PSI set for learning on sharpening and all the setups and jigs. BUT, after having a basic set in hand, how best do I decide where to focus the next individual turning tool purchases/investment ie higher quality steel & manufacturers but more specifically I have are which tools might I want to immediately upgrade, change, or add that aren't part of the basic set? What have you found indispensable with experience?

3/8 spindle gouge - but a fingernail grind?
What kind/size negative rake scraper?
A Bowl gouge that doesn't suck?
Etc.

So as far as the individual turning tool purchases, this is where I think it is really hard to get out of our own heads. Some turners specialize in finials, so their tooling is catered to that, while others do bowls with traditional gouges and have a good selection there, and others do bowls with scrapers, so they have multiples of those. Some try to be able to do a bit of everything, so have more generalized tools.

I think this is where your own practice, experience, and preferences will come much more into play.

As far as quality manufacturers, there are three that are fairly popular: D-Way, Thompson, Carter and sons. I personally started buying D-Way as my nice tooling, and was so happy with them, that I haven't ventured far. I do have plans to try out some Thompson tools in the future though.

If you want to be able to do small boxes easily, I have been eyeing the boxmaster tools at D-Way. I haven't bought any, but they are on my short list to get in the future, and most are double ended, which makes it really convenient to get two different but related tools on the same piece of steel. This is the one I plan on getting: https://d-waytools.com/5-8-double-ended-straight-sided-flat-bottom-box-tool/

Here is my current inventory of unhandled tools (most being D-way):
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50910059396_240aa0e38e_b.jpg

I have a separate drawer for the handles:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50396000351_d4ac530a63_b.jpg

For me, the first D-way tools I bought were the 5/8" bowl gouge, spindle roughing gouge, 3/8" spindle gouge, 1 inch skew, and the round nosed negative rake scraper. This gave me some good tools for general use. The second order was when I added the 5/8" bottom feeder bowl gouge, 1/2" spindle, beading tools (I wanted to try them out, they are more of a specialty use, but they work great), parting tool, and the other negative rake scrapers (straight spear point, and curved).

If you want a bowl gouge with a handle already, then the Ellsworth signature gouge made by crown is an great gouge, and I use mine often in addition to the d-way bowl gouge. If you really get into bowls, you may accumulate a whole bevy of bowl gouges with different grinds and flute profiles.

If you get more into finials and the like, look up Cindy Drozda, she has contracted with some manufacturers (I want to say Thompson for many of them) for her specific grinds and profiles.

So I think the biggest thing is for you to get comfortable with your lathe, and try out some different kinds of turnings, and then when you decide that you want to get more into a specific type of turning, buy the tools that are best suited for that. You will most likely also have preferences ebb and wane, so you may end up with a whole bunch of tools of every which kind after a decade of turning, and appreciate each and every one of them!

As a quick personal example: I started with making pens, and did that for a long time, then did some one off random projects, then getting into cups and small bowls. I did this all with Easy Wood Tools for many years. When I decided to try larger bowls, I realized that the easy wood tools weren't the best suited tool, and that is when I decided to get traditional tools and learn how to sharpen, and then once I felt comfortable, I later bought the D-way tools. At one point I wanted to get into hollow vessels, which meant that I needed additional tools as well, so I got the #3 Easy wood tools swan neck hollower, and then also added the Hunter Carbide Badger tools for hollow vessels. I'll probably want to try some finials later, and will most likely get some more specialty spindle gouges to do that. I find it fun to try new types of turnings, and to make a whole bunch of mistakes, and then see my progress over time.

I hope this helps at least a bit!

[Allen Mattsen]

Melvin, thank you for sharing. That is a wealth of information! Because I am 50 and retired now (and not early do to selling a .com, either, lol, but due to a health issue) I want to take the long, slow route and learn the craft and not take the easy, quick routes that seem to be really popular right now such as pens and carbide tools. For whatever reason that hasn't attracted me. I'm willing to take some growing pains.

Hopefully, though, at some point the world opens up and I can connect with some local woodturning people, classes, clubs, etc. and also begin learning from others, as well.

I learned that for small boxes, one of the people I spoke with uses a 10mm spindle gouge, some negative rake scrapers including primarily a 3/4" skew scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper.

Yes, this is the hard part - seeing the future! Experience is the best teacher and right now that's what I have the least of. Thankfully, I'm humble enough to ask for help and learn as much as I can. I'm checking out the book "Ellsworth on Woodturning".

[Melvin Feng]

Melvin, thank you for sharing. That is a wealth of information! Because I am 50 and retired now (and not early do to selling a .com, either, lol, but due to a health issue) I want to take the long, slow route and learn the craft and not take the easy, quick routes that seem to be really popular right now such as pens and carbide tools. For whatever reason that hasn't attracted me. I'm willing to take some growing pains.

Hopefully, though, at some point the world opens up and I can connect with some local woodturning people, classes, clubs, etc. and also begin learning from others, as well.

I learned that for small boxes, one of the people I spoke with uses a 10mm spindle gouge, some negative rake scrapers including primarily a 3/4" skew scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper.

Yes, this is the hard part - seeing the future! Experience is the best teacher and right now that's what I have the least of. Thankfully, I'm humble enough to ask for help and learn as much as I can. I'm checking out the book "Ellsworth on Woodturning".

This is also where it is great to appreciate the diversity of turners. In a certain sense, we are all doing the same thing, but the vast types of projects and how deep we can get into very specific types shows just how far you can go if you want!

As a side note, I think someone mentioned it, but do you have a plan for acquiring turning blanks from? This is where a club could really be of help to you, as most of us who have turned for a while have accumulated more turning blanks than we can work in a reasonable amount of time, and we can also help process material if needed. A chainsaw and bandsaw are really helpful for prepping wood to go on the lathe.

For bowls, I typically do twice turned bowls, which means that I turn when the wood is still green and wet, but keep everything thick. I then let it dry, warp, crack, etc. and then turn it again when it is dry to final dimension and finish the piece. If you were to want to do bowls this way, you need a way of getting green wood quickly enough to be able to turn before it cracks on you. Some do a modification of this and dry in a microwave to speed it up, but I've never tried this.

Another option for bowls, is to buy ready to turn dried blanks from a place like woodcraft or rockler. This will be the simpler way to get started, but it will make turning itself more of a bear because dried wood is a lot harder, which makes it more difficult to turn, and as odd as it sounds, also more painful - when I turn dried wood, I have to be careful of the chips hitting my fingers because they can be very hot and abrasive against my skin. I've actually had my skin blister from this before, so I've learned to be more careful.

Buying your turning blanks will also get expensive very quickly, especially if you are buying larger blanks or expensive species. I have gone in the direction of learning how to process wood as I have opportunities to with my chainsaws (I've also gotten into chainsaw milling for flatwork, but I usually also cut bowl blanks at the same time). I cut blocks with my chainsaw, and then I built a circle cutting jig for my bandsaw to make roughing the shape much easier. Since I built my chainsaw milling setup, I've had a number of friends tell me that they've had trees cut down or fall down, and I go out and process as much as I like. This has provided me with a tremendous amount of 'free' wood (the chainsaw milling setup ended up being over $2k, so I use the word 'free' for wood very flexibly!).

Last note for this response - if you start turning green wood, make sure to clean up the lathe of chips periodically while turning as well as completely at the end of your turning session. I've had chips cause staining and surface corrosion just by being on the lathe bed while I turn, so I'm much more mindful of this now.

[John K Jordan]

...dried wood is a lot harder, which makes it more difficult to turn, and as odd as it sounds, also more painful - when I turn dried wood, I have to be careful of the chips hitting my fingers because they can be very hot and abrasive against my skin. I've actually had my skin blister from this before, so I've learned to be more careful.
...

How true!

I almost always turn dry wood, both by preference and because I have a lot of dry wood on hand. (I've been processing and drying for a long time now - all the domestic wood was "free" but I will sometimes buy exotics and dry them.)

BTW, I did discover something about hot chips on the hand. If I use a conventional bowl gouge the chips are often directed down the flute towards my hand. But if I use a Hunter tool such as the Hercules the chips go to the side instead, away from my hand - much more pleasant! (The Hunter tool is designed to be used just as you would a gouge but it can work nicely as a scraper if desired.)

I personally don't mind that the wood is hard. It's a bit slower to turn but not particularly difficult and I don't have to deal with twice turning. (If possible I do let the piece "relax" at least overnight to allow any internal stresses to equalize before the finish cuts, especially for things like lidded boxes.) And for small things I prefer very hard and dense wood, especially wood with very fine grain.

JKJ

[Gerald Etto]

I started with a set of Benjamin's Best tools. I have since a Robert Sorby spindle gauge and parting tool. I also have a few small sized Easy Wood Tools.

The only regret is the Easy Wood Tools. I wish I bought the mid or full sized ones.

[David Metzman]

Penn State - Benjamins Best has a longer set of tools that you may want to consider. I have some and I like them. You do not have to worry about them to much, especially when sharpening, as you may with one tool that is $100+. You can try different grinds on the bowl gouge and see what you like.

Also, watch a lot of you tube videos- there are thousands - some sawmillcreek members have them - best way to learn unless you have someone in person to show you.

[Robert Henrickson]

So as far as the individual turning tool purchases, this is where I think it is really hard to get out of our own heads. Some turners specialize in finials, so their tooling is catered to that, while others do bowls with traditional gouges and have a good selection there, and others do bowls with scrapers, so they have multiples of those. Some try to be able to do a bit of everything, so have more generalized tools.

I think this is where your own practice, experience, and preferences will come much more into play.

So I think the biggest thing is for you to get comfortable with your lathe, and try out some different kinds of turnings, and then when you decide that you want to get more into a specific type of turning, buy the tools that are best suited for that. You will most likely also have preferences ebb and wane, so you may end up with a whole bunch of tools of every which kind after a decade of turning, and appreciate each and every one of them!

As a quick personal example: I started with making pens [snip] I find it fun to try new types of turnings, and to make a whole bunch of mistakes, and then see my progress over time.


Great advice. Get used to turning, develop your basic skills. Above all -- try out a wide range of types of turnings. There is more to turning than pens, bowls, hollow forms, and the other 'usual suspects'. If you see something which interests you -- TRY IT! You might find something you really love but had never thought of. See what you enjoy turning, then buy tools which will help. Your interests may well change / evolve. I started out making bowls (but not one in the last several years), boxes (none in years), hollow forms (started out the usual way but now only do 2-piece hollowing when I do any). I now primarily do multiaxis work of various kinds and multiple-spindle constructions (2D and 3D), and explore what traditional turning in various parts of the world has to offer. Figuring out how to do something is as interesting to me as the final product. For much of what I do, I like Thompson detail gouges.

[Allen Mattsen]

Good stuff!

I'm developing a plan to acquire blanks. There are a lot of suppliers in my area because it seems there are A LOT of woodworkers in the Portland/Vancouver area. I picked up a few from Goby walnut yesterday, and they even had some cheaper ones at .75/lb, but I hope to both interact with the local community and develop some relationships with local people who have portable sawmills or small businesses that I may be able to get all kinds of blanks from. It's early in the process and I wouldn't mind twice-turning and trying both wet and dry. I'd also like to do some stabilization stuff, and resin. It's a vast world and I'm excited for all the variation. Sunday my first tools arrive along with a face shield so I'll get my feet wet soon. I imagine I can also make some of my own blanks by cutting some blocks off the walnut, mahogany, purple heart, etc and other woods I have on hand.

[John K Jordan]

... I hope to both interact with the local community and develop some relationships with local people who have portable sawmills or small businesses that I may be able to get all kinds of blanks from. ...

I was able to justify buying a small Woodmizer when we bought this farm and it's been useful and a lot of fun. I don't saw for money but do saw wood for siding and slabs and square stock (e.g. 4x4s or 5x5s) to dry for turning, and sometimes cut bowl and platter blanks from chunks of logs friends bring.

BTW, if you talk to some who has a mill and ask about milling short lengths some may not be set up for this - the minimum log I can clamp on my mill is about 4' long. However, I use lag screws to make a "L" shaped support from a couple of 2x12s or something. I put that on the mill then clamp the short pieces to it. The support is sacrificial since I often have to cut into it but I just keep moving further down as needed. I've posted these pictures before so sorry if you've already seen them:

451470 451471 451472

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

451587

In all their glory, the starter set. Took the load of lacquer off them and let me say: I'm anxious for the sharpening tools I ordered to arrive. 😎

[roger wiegand]

I'd say start turning. Make a bunch of stuff, figure out what you like doing and what you don't. At some point you'll reach a point where you realize that a different tool will make what you are trying to do much easier, or allow you to do it at all. Then buy that tool.

When you find yourself scratching your head saying "there's got to be a better way" then investigate whether there is. (When you find the magical sandpaper replacement, let me know.)

You may well find that you'll want to invest in different kinds of holding systems before more cutting tools. Or sanding technology. Or lighting. Or drills. Or a really good push broom. Or gratuities for your friendly local tree trimmer. There's no end of things to spend money on.

[John K Jordan]

...(When you find the magical sandpaper replacement, let me know.)...

The magical COARSE sandpaper (and rotary sander) replacement, NRS and hand scrapers. :) I still use fine sandpaper for these, usually 320 or finer, often by hand with a soft sanding block.

451609 451611 451612

My soft sanding block.

451613

[Allen Mattsen]

Oh I started all right, heh. Pretty sure I've worn out most edges in the set. Planing cuts w/ skew chisels are tricky. Had to watch some video to remember how to not catch that tool 😅. I'm having to learn posture & positioning, tool rest height, speeds, all kinds of stuff. All that said: I'm having a blast! I did run the skew on my coarse diamond stone briefly but am nervous about damaging them (they are pretty new!). I need a burnisher for my card scrapers and definitely some sanding tech. I moved one of my LED fixtures closer to the lathe area in my garage but probably want a fixture I can focus with other than a cordless light or flashlight 🔦. I also filed & sanded the edges of the skew(s) which tended to grab the tool rest and cleaned/waxed the lathe's cast iron. Picked up some fresh blanks from a local guy to see about some rough turning & the feel between kiln dried and not. Definitely need some larger Forstner Bits so I can hollow boxes and look into other tools and how to hollow things. Built a drawer for the missing one my stand after reinforcing it the other day.
Kinda waiting on the chuck to arrive tomorrow now.
451704

[Allen Mattsen]

That reminds me, any recommendations on a Jacob's chuck or whatever to hold bits in the tail stock?

[Melvin Feng]

That reminds me, any recommendations on a Jacob's chuck or whatever to hold bits in the tail stock?

I have a keyed chuck and two keyless chucks for drills. I also have a single 3/4" taper drill which fits directly into the MT2 in the tailstock. The keyed chuck I think is a harbor freight unit, and the keyless chucks are ones from Amazon, I think around $30-40. I find that to be a sweet spot for them on amazon.

To give you some insight into my system for drilling (this works for me, but may not fit your needs):
1) keyed chuck has a carbide center drill in it permanently. When I need to do a long drilling operation of a fairly narrow bit, I start with this. I did this to reduce wandering and to be more likely to stay centered on the axis. This is how I drill for pens and the like, but it is handy for anything that I really want to be centered well.
2) Keyless chuck #1 has a 2-1/8 forstner bit in it permamently. I use this to cut the mortise to fit the 2 inch jaws on my chuck. I found this to be a very easy, convenient, and consistent way to do this, and use it often for my bowls - I actually have a second one I keep for use in the drill to drill the initial mortise to mount the blank in the chuck initially. I hope this makes sense. It allows me to not have to turn between centers or use the worm screw.
3) keyless chuck #2 is for all the other standard drills that I might need to use. I've even used it to tap threads in pieces of hex stainless bar to make tap handles for my beer (I'm an avid home brewer and have a walk-in cooler to serve from)

4) 3/4" taper drill - I have a stop collar on this, and use this exclusively to set the depth when hollowing out the interior of a bowl. It takes a lot of the guesswork out of knowing how far to go. It also makes it so that I don't have to wrangle with cutting the center nib that always seems to like to stick out (this will make more sense when you turn some bowls).

I hope this gives you some ideas!

[Melvin Feng]

Oh I started all right, heh. Pretty sure I've worn out most edges in the set. Planing cuts w/ skew chisels are tricky. Had to watch some video to remember how to not catch that tool . I'm having to learn posture & positioning, tool rest height, speeds, all kinds of stuff. All that said: I'm having a blast! I did run the skew on my coarse diamond stone briefly but am nervous about damaging them (they are pretty new!). I need a burnisher for my card scrapers and definitely some sanding tech. I moved one of my LED fixtures closer to the lathe area in my garage but probably want a fixture I can focus with other than a cordless light or flashlight . I also filed & sanded the edges of the skew(s) which tended to grab the tool rest and cleaned/waxed the lathe's cast iron. Picked up some fresh blanks from a local guy to see about some rough turning & the feel between kiln dried and not. Definitely need some larger Forstner Bits so I can hollow boxes and look into other tools and how to hollow things. Built a drawer for the missing one my stand after reinforcing it the other day.
Kinda waiting on the chuck to arrive tomorrow now.
451704

It is great that you are spending time getting to know your tools and your lathe. You'll soon have enough experience to know what you like and don't like, and then be ready to make your next purchase!

For a burnisher, I'd recommend getting a carbide one. I originally bought a tool steel one, but later bought the carbide to make sure I didn't have to worry about it. I use it for my card scrapers, as well as setting a burr on my negative rake scrapers.

For forstner bits, I'm partial to the 'wave' style, though I only have a few like that. If you use them a lot on the lathe, you'll also want to learn how to sharpen them. I use a small 1x30 belt sander for mine, and it works quite well with a 600 grit belt on it.

If you want to do boxes, you'll definitely want to look into some scraper options. You can look more closely at that boxmaster that I linked in an earlier post. You can also look into some carbide insert tools that can also be handy for turning boxes. I have some easy wood tools that I've used for a long time, but I've become a much bigger fan of the Hunter Carbide options with their cup style insert. There are a number of Hunter tools that you could use for turning boxes on the lathe. You can also use a traditional scraper with more of a flat front, and a negative rake version would most likely be more pleasant to use.

[Allen Mattsen]

This all makes sense, thank you. I've seen the forstner Bits that hook or snap into a tailstock live center piece, what is that system called - appears to be without a chuck?

[Allen Mattsen]

For a burnisher, I'd recommend getting a carbide one. I originally bought a tool steel one, but later bought the carbide to make sure I didn't have to worry about it. I use it for my card scrapers, as well as setting a burr on my negative rake scrapers.


I've only seen the standard 'chefs steel' style rod Burnishers for scrapers. Aren't they supposed to be just a hardened rod? Could use more info on this. I appreciate the positive encouragement, too. Thanks.

[Melvin Feng]

I've only seen the standard 'chefs steel' style rod Burnishers for scrapers. Aren't they supposed to be just a hardened rod? Could use more info on this. I appreciate the positive encouragement, too. Thanks.
Yup, you can get a carbide burnisher in the chef's steel style. This is the one I bought: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B088C33L7P/

The original burnisher I had bought for my card scrapers was rated for mid 60s Rockwell. I just looked up the hardness of my d-way tools, and also of Thompson tools, and they are just about the same. The burnisher only works if it is harder than what you are trying to burnish. When I was buying my D-way scrapers, I realized that I needed a harder burnisher, so I had to get the second one (the carbide is up into the 90's rockwell). Even though your tools right now are not likely to be that hard, you may decide to try out the 'premium' steel choices, which may be the same hardness as a traditional burnisher, which means you'll end up needing to get a carbide one later. I'm just trying to save you from making the same mistake I did. haha.

[Melvin Feng]

This all makes sense, thank you. I've seen the forstner Bits that hook or snap into a tailstock live center piece, what is that system called - appears to be without a chuck?
Hmmmm, I don't think you mean live center - it would rotate with the piece, not allowing you to drill.

There are two other methods for holding specific diameter shafts that I'm aware of. The first is an ER Collet system that goes into the MT2 on the tailstock, something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Chuck-TBVECHI-Collet-Shank-Collets/dp/B07TKL7X61/

The other is a direct MT2 collet system, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Shank-Round-Collets-Collet-16ths/dp/B06XBYJMR1/

Those are just the first products I found when I searched amazon, so I can't comment on how good those specific products actually are. I haven't used either of those systems either, I just have researched them.

Though they are very similar, there are a couple big differences that come to mind. The ER collet requires the wrench, and adds length, but should provide a firm stop to the tooling that is clamped.

The MT2 collets reduce the overall length, but I'm not sure if tooling could slip more easily because it is more difficult to clamp with the MT2 before advancing it to drill. Looking at the MT2 collets, they can also be used in the headstock and fastened with a draw bar to clamp work if you are working with really small spindles like a finial using a small tenon, this would also make it easier to drill a small centered hole in a dowel that you can mount in the collet.

If what you are thinking is different than either of those options, let me know, because I would be interested in learning about it too!

[John K Jordan]

Hmmmm, I don't think you mean live center - it would rotate with the piece, not allowing you to drill.


I assumed he meant to say "tailstock" instead of live center.

I often use Forstner bits in a end mill holder. One of my bit sets has 3/8" shafts so I use this 3/8" end mill holder - the bits fasten with a set screw. The fit in the holder is precise.

451788

I do use #2MT collets but in the headstock since they can be pulled tight with a drawbar and to hold wood and not drill bits. (I usually use a collet that grips a 1/2" tenon and other sizes when turning metal rod stock.) They won't work in the tailstock since a drawbar won't work with a tailstock, at least I can't see how it can. The end mill holder grips the bit tightly but it can still slip in the tailstock so I generally grip it with small channel lock pliers or vise grips.

For twist drills I often use taper shank bits with #2MT or #1MT with an inexpensive adapter. (I've never seen a taper shank forstner bit!)

451789

Between using the end mill holder and taper shank bits, I rarely put a bit in a Jacobs chuck. Both of these methods greatly reduce the extra length when using the Jacobs chuck. This might be important when drilling the end of a longish piece on a short bed lathe, but more important to me is the extra length can allow vibration and reduce precision. I do use Jacobs chucks a lot but mostly for center drills for starting a hole (and when I need a size I don't have in a taper shank bit!)

JKJ

[David Walser]

...

I often use Forstner bits in a end mill holder. One of my bit sets has 3/8" shafts so I use this 3/8" end mill holder - the bits fasten with a set screw. The fit in the holder is precise.

451788

I do use #2MT collets but in the headstock since they can be pulled tight with a drawbar and to hold wood and not drill bits. (I usually use a collet that grips a 1/2" tenon and other sizes when turning metal rod stock.) They won't work in the tailstock since a drawbar won't work with a tailstock, at least I can't see how it can. The end mill holder grips the bit tightly but it can still slip in the tailstock so I generally grip it with small channel lock pliers or vise grips.

... [Emphasis added.]

John -- I've not thought of using an endmill holder. That's an interesting idea. I'll have to mull it over. (This may be a chance to purchase a new tool!)

Let me respond to the bolded text in the quoted material, above. I often use a 3/8" MT collet to hold Forstner bits in the quill of my tailstock. I've always used a drawbar with them. I wonder if there are different methods of advancing the quill -- some that are compatible with a drawbar and some that are not? Note: I just replaced my Australia-made Woodfast lathe with a Powermatic 3520C. I've not tried to use a MT collet in the tailstock since I switched lathe. That's why I found your comment so interesting (it might affect me).

[John K Jordan]

I wonder if there are different methods of advancing the quill -- some that are compatible with a drawbar and some that are not?

The design of the PM tailstock didn't lend itself to using a drawbar. Running the drawbar completely through the tailstock and cranking to advance won't work since the length from the front of the quill to the back of the crank increases. If a drawbar could be devised to tighten internally, just behind the taper in the quill, that might be made to work. However it would limit how far the quill could advance or require a longer quill. Could possibly devise something to push the entire tailstock along the ways but it seems that could compromise the stability that comes with clamping the tailstock tightly. Another problem with the whole drawbar idea is the through-hole on the PM3520b, at least, is not large enough to pass the 3/8" drawbar. I can think of several ways to get around that but the whole thing was getting out of hand!

Now I'm curious about the design of the Woodfast tailstock that can hold the MT collet tightly. (Without the use of a hammer!)

At the time I bought that end mill holder it was less than $15. At the moment, most with #2MT seem to be $25+.

JKJ

[Mike Peace]

I did a video on this topic you might find helpful.https://youtu.be/EDutGUGDvxY

[Allen Mattsen]

Awesome, thanks. Yes, I will definitely move to Thompson, et al premium tool steel(s) once I get more experience and learn what to focus my attention on tools-wise. A saved step now with long term in mind is exactly what helps.

[Allen Mattsen]

What are folks using for setup jigs, blocks, etc? Are there any that are indispensable? The Raptor jigs or Battie angle gauge? I think I'm going Wolverine system and Varigrind 1 as the base system to begin with. Can I use a digital angle gauge to check the angles of the tools or is a manual style protractor something to have?

Also, what are you folks using for sanding systems?
notes: I have some mesh style sandpaper (and a drill) but that's about it so far. Are the products from woodturner's wonders good to get for using a drill or other device? If so which ones? Drill alternative for power sanding? I really need help on the sandpaper types that are best - shape and type. I doubt my random orbit sander's supply of hook & loop will get me far or last very long and paper sandpaper disintegrates fast (obviously). I've seen those squares of wet/dry rockler sells but those seem like a one or two project deal or for pen turning (which I don't do).

[Allen Mattsen]

I know I want to upgrade two tools already and add some.

Spindle gouge - some have complained about the thompson grind - why? can I or should I get a fingernail grind style tool?
Bowl gouge - see above, except I think I want to use a 40/40 or Ellsworth grind for a bowl gouge. Dunno for certain. Reading Ellsworth's book right now ;)
Hollowing tool(s) - see below
Negative rake scraper(s) - suggestions needed

If I buy Thompson tools, and don't yet make my own handles, what size handle - and what handle specifically - should I get? Is there something I can interchange a couple Thompson gouges between the same handle? How does that work?

Hollowing - I have been looking at Hunter, Jordan, and Easy Wood tools scraper/hollowers. I want to finish the bottom of projects, mostly boxes so far, and have not the tools to do it effectively yet. I'd like to do hollow forms at some point, too, but initially just doing boxes so far. Yes, I can use a Forstner bit and probably will do that too, but want a somewhat beefy bar tool to get to the bottom of things. I've been trying to stay traditional tools only but would consider carbide for this element. The bit style Jordan tools could be resharpened on my grinder / CBN wheel setup, though, which is appealing. https://www.packardwoodworks.com/tools-jord-holl.html

[David Bassett]

... If I buy Thompson tools, and don't yet make my own handles, what size handle - and what handle specifically - should I get? Is there something I can interchange a couple Thompson gouges between the same handle? How does that work? ....

I assume you are asking about Thompson handles. Unless he's released an enhancement recently, his handles are limited to a single shaft diameter. E.g. a 3/8" diameter shaft handle will hold any 3/8" diameter tool. The tool is held with two set screws.

I was surprised, but I like his handles a lot in a heated shop*. I ordered a couple so I could use the tools right away before I made handles and then ordered more instead of making some. Their weight is (was) adjustable with fine shot in the hollow aluminum body. I initially found them heavy, removed the shot, and prefer them that way. As far as length, I prefer a shorter handle for smaller tools, e.g. a 7" handle on a 1/4" detail gouge, and longer handles on larger tools. But you could economize with a medium handle and share it between tools to start.

(*Lost my heated shop and tools are stored in my unheated garage for now. Someone ask a question and I dug the tools out. Even with our mild CA winters, I'm not using the aluminum handles in an unheated space!)

[Melvin Feng]

What are folks using for setup jigs, blocks, etc? Are there any that are indispensable? The Raptor jigs or Battie angle gauge? I think I'm going Wolverine system and Varigrind 1 as the base system to begin with. Can I use a digital angle gauge to check the angles of the tools or is a manual style protractor something to have?

Also, what are you folks using for sanding systems?
notes: I have some mesh style sandpaper (and a drill) but that's about it so far. Are the products from woodturner's wonders good to get for using a drill or other device? If so which ones? Drill alternative for power sanding? I really need help on the sandpaper types that are best - shape and type. I doubt my random orbit sander's supply of hook & loop will get me far or last very long and paper sandpaper disintegrates fast (obviously). I've seen those squares of wet/dry rockler sells but those seem like a one or two project deal or for pen turning (which I don't do).

I'll let others chime in on the details of raptor vs batty gauges since I don't use either. The raptor gauges look to be simpler, but you need one for each angle, and as long as those angles are the ones you want to use, you're great. I believe there are three different Batty gauges that have two angles at each corner, so there are a lot of options, but I don't know how easy it is to actually use and setup with the wheel since the contact patch is so small.

I have a robo rest for my platform sharpening, but unfortunately, he stopped selling them recently. Some of the angles aren't accurate, but they are consistent, which is much more important to me.

In my d-way orders, they actually add in a small card stock cutout to help set a couple specific angles. You can create your own setup cards pretty easily if you want, I believe John makes his own out of acrylic.

For sanding, I have the inertia sander from woodturners wonders, it is great for larger spindles and bowls. It doesn't do very well on small parts, even with the 2 inch pad. I have a set of 3 inch and 2 inch pads and a wide selection of their sanding pads - I have the green, purple, and abranet style. I haven't used them enough to really notice any differences or have preferences, they seem to work well enough for me, though I haven't used the abranet style much.

I still use the strips of sanding paper of a wide variety of grits, I believe from 80-800. I have a mix of brands from the rockler house brand, versions off amazon, woodcraft, and then from platte river for the other coarser and finer grits. I use the paper on smaller turnings, and where I need more dexterity to reach in bowls and spindles where the inertia sander doesn't reach.

I do have sets of micro mesh, but I don't use them very often, only when I'm working with a CA finish or acrylic, which isn't very often.

As a side note to setup jigs - I have the Ellsworth grinding jig, which is essentially a fixed vari-grind 1. It is my most used bowl gouge grind, so I like having the one setup for it. I use it with the wolverine Vee arm on the 180 grit CBN wheel. It actually requires a slightly different locating position, so I built setup blocks to make things consistent and easier. I did the necessary measurements, and then cut blocks of wood to set the Vee arm distance, and a riser block in the Vee arm pocket to get the jig up to the correct height. I can post a picture if it is easier to see, just let me know!

I also have multiple vari-grind 1 jigs because I want them to be more consistent when I use them, so i want to set it, and then only use it for a particular grind. I probably need to get one more at this point too.

[Melvin Feng]

I know I want to upgrade two tools already and add some.

Spindle gouge - some have complained about the thompson grind - why? can I or should I get a fingernail grind style tool?
Bowl gouge - see above, except I think I want to use a 40/40 or Ellsworth grind for a bowl gouge. Dunno for certain. Reading Ellsworth's book right now ;)
Hollowing tool(s) - see below
Negative rake scraper(s) - suggestions needed

If I buy Thompson tools, and don't yet make my own handles, what size handle - and what handle specifically - should I get? Is there something I can interchange a couple Thompson gouges between the same handle? How does that work?

Hollowing - I have been looking at Hunter, Jordan, and Easy Wood tools scraper/hollowers. I want to finish the bottom of projects, mostly boxes so far, and have not the tools to do it effectively yet. I'd like to do hollow forms at some point, too, but initially just doing boxes so far. Yes, I can use a Forstner bit and probably will do that too, but want a somewhat beefy bar tool to get to the bottom of things. I've been trying to stay traditional tools only but would consider carbide for this element. The bit style Jordan tools could be resharpened on my grinder / CBN wheel setup, though, which is appealing. https://www.packardwoodworks.com/tools-jord-holl.html

For spindle gouges, I have the two that D-Way offer, but I honestly haven't used them much. All that to say, you'll discover a grind that you prefer for the way in which you turn. Once you get your sharpening setup, you can use the vari-grind 1 jig to try out numerous profiles. You can also try relieving the heel if you have clearance issues. I think this is where a lesson or two from an experienced turner can help a lot (Post covid, of course!). I've watched videos, and they only help so much, the rest right now for me is to just practice and make mistakes to figure things out on my own.

For the bowl gouge, I have practiced the most with the Ellsworth grind and use his jig for my sharpening. It is my go-to grind on my bowl gouges. I do have a smaller 3/8 bowl gouge that I tried the 40/40 with, but because it was so much smaller than the 5/8" bowl gouges that I primarily use, I haven't really been able to give it a good trial. I hope to get a couple more 5/8" bowl gouges so that I can experiment with different grinds in the future, and give them a fair shake.

For handles, you can look at D-way. He sells bushings, so for the handles with larger receivers, you can go one size down, if that makes sense. He also sells quick change knobs that are knurled that makes changing out tools very easy and quick. I have a set of 6 of their handles ranging from the 8 inch to the 16 inch, and a few sets of bushings, and each has the quick change knob. I think it is a very versatile setup.

For hollowing, I would honestly wait for now. Practice and become proficient with the basics and try multiple types of turnings. I personally have the Hunter Carbide Badger set of 2 tools, one is a tapered shaft, and the other is a slight swan neck. I also have the Easy Wood Tools pro #3 hollower that has a more severe swan neck, and that is about as much as I need. I don't do that many hollow forms at this point, but I when I do, I do as much as I can with the Hunter Carbide tools, and then if needed go to the #3 EWT pro hollower. My setup is only for relatively small hollowing. If you want to be able to do deeper vessels, you'll want to look more at the captive systems with lasers and the like.

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you'll also want to get a bowl caliper set, probably the larger version. This will especially be important when doing hollow forms where you can't reach and feel the wall thickness very easily. The calipers will very easily and quickly show you the wall thickness.

[John K Jordan]

Also, what are you folks using for sanding systems?
notes: I have some mesh style sandpaper (and a drill) but that's about it so far. Are the products from woodturner's wonders good to get for using a drill or other device? If so which ones? Drill alternative for power sanding? I really need help on the sandpaper types that are best - shape and type. I doubt my random orbit sander's supply of hook & loop will get me far or last very long and paper sandpaper disintegrates fast (obviously). I've seen those squares of wet/dry rockler sells but those seem like a one or two project deal or for pen turning (which I don't do).

I have the pneumatic 3" ROS from WTW and it's nice for finish sanding on platters. Needs a reasonable air compressor to operate, although we generally use it with that air turned way down for gentle use with fine sandpaper. It has a built in valve to limit the speed. (I NEVER use the ROS at high speed and the sandpaper lasts just about forever.)

But my favorite is a pneumatic 2" ROS from Grex. I keep two, one with 2" disk and one with a 1" disk to get deep into the bottom of a box or vessel. Again, only use it at slow speeds with fine sandpaper. (I haven't used rotating sanding disks on a drill for many years, simply not needed if the piece is properly smoothed first with hand scrapers.) The Grex:

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The 3" WTW ROS in action:

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Besides that, much of my sanding is with my unpatented Soft Sanding Block, a piece of sandpaper wrapped around a soft eraser. Easily conforms to surfaces with compound curves.

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JKJ

[John K Jordan]

...
If I buy Thompson tools, and don't yet make my own handles, what size handle - and what handle specifically - should I get? Is there something I can interchange a couple Thompson gouges between the same handle? How does that work?

Hollowing - I have been looking at Hunter, Jordan, and Easy Wood tools scraper/hollowers. I want to finish the bottom of projects, mostly boxes so far, and have not the tools to do it effectively yet. I'd like to do hollow forms at some point, too, but initially just doing boxes so far. Yes, I can use a Forstner bit and probably will do that too, but want a somewhat beefy bar tool to get to the bottom of things. I've been trying to stay traditional tools only but would consider carbide for this element. The bit style Jordan tools could be resharpened on my grinder / CBN wheel setup, though, which is appealing. https://www.packardwoodworks.com/tools-jord-holl.html

The length of the handle depends on the kinds of things you turn, your skill level, and how aggressively you work. I just measured: most of my handles for smaller turnings are 6 to 10" long. Some tools I use without putting them in a handle. I have handles 13" to 22" for larger bowls and hollowing things.

I almost never make handles and permanently mount a tool I like to make inserts to fit into the handles so I can quickly swap out tools. For example, I keep multiple 3/8" spindle gouges all sharpened the same. When one gets dull I put in a new one and don't stop to sharpen until they are all dull. I drill a deep hole in the handle to accommodate the shaft of the tool so I can leave the same length of tool extended regardless of low long it is. Here are some of my handles. I sometimes make inserts for these from aluminum by turning them on the wood lathe, some I make on my metal-turning lathe. I make inserts to hold tools from 1/4" diameter up to 5/8". You can buy handles somewhat like this but they are expensive. Also, I couldn't find any that fit my needs so I started making my own.

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The top three are the small Hunter 3-piece hollowing set.
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The inserts are epoxied into the handle. Someone once worried this wouldn't be strong enough. They are plenty strong and none has ever loosened or broke.
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A box scraper is perfect for the straight insides of a box and for cleaning up the flat bottom of almost anything too tight to get your hand into the bottom. A good box rest (Robust or Best Wood Tools) helps a lot with this. Another tool to buy...

This little Sorby teardrop scraper will nicely clean up the bottom and the curved insides of a variety of vase-like forms. The scraper can be rotated on the handle to fit the curve. I use both straight and gooseneck handles as needed. More tools to buy...
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I use that and other curved scrapers, some handheld, to clean up the inside of things like these. I want the inside as perfect as the outside.

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The Jordan bits can easily be sharpened on a AlOx or CBN wheel. They are easier to sharpen if you get the little jig he sells.

But I'll repeat - it would crazy to go out and buy every tool you might use someday. Start slowly and add tools as you progress.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

Lots of good info here. I did begin making a handle yesterday and really like the idea of being able to change tools. This first one will likely buy a brass ferrule and epoxy in the tool. It's good practice and already I'm waiting for the snow to clear enough to go buy the bed extension/outboard turning setup for my Laguna 1216 lathe. My handle length limit is about 14" without it and taking off the tool rest often is a pain so that's next.

Set screws vs knurled quick-change connectors is interesting to consider. While I don't have a lot of tools now (8), I do like the idea of the knurled handle adapters for easy tool changes. Really cool you make your own set screw setups!

Certainly, the bowl gouge I have is trash as it, at least, with the stock grind and short handle. I'm unhappy with the grind on my spindle gouge, as well, but that may also be inexperience. I'll toy with grinding things once the setup gets here (mid-Feb, they said).

What is your opinion of straight style bits (Jordan, Ellsworth hollowing bit too, etc) vs carbide bits (Hunter, Easy wood tools, etc)? Also, if you get a carbide hollowing tool do they come with negative rake inserts and how important is that?

I plan to connect with the local AAW chapter in my area and hopefully at some point get some hand-on work with some others. They are still holding meetings on zoom. I think that will be a good way to get some learning going outside of videos and reading.

[Allen Mattsen]

I forgot to ask: the 8" tool rest that came stock with my lathe seems like something I'll want to upgrade. Any suggestions It's a 1" (24.5mm) post. I wonder if you just buy another tool rest that's larger or are there systems? Better makers than others for reasons I'm not aware of?

[Allen Mattsen]

Would this be a decent starting point for a chuck to use in tailstock for forstner and other bit drilling procedures? Is there anything about buying a chuck that I should lookout for other than quality/longevity vs price (these are inexpensive options)?

PSI Woodworking Products TM32KL 1/2-Inch Keyless Drill Chuck with #2 Morse Taper Arbor (1/2" 2MT Keyless) ($40)
Rockler sells a keyed chuck and taper which ends up being ($60)

Woodcraft sells WoodRiver - 1/2" Capacity x #2 MT Lathe Keyless Drill Chuck ($64.99
)
If you had to buy two Forstner bits for drilling boxes what sizes are ideal?

[Melvin Feng]

I forgot to ask: the 8" tool rest that came stock with my lathe seems like something I'll want to upgrade. Any suggestions It's a 1" (24.5mm) post. I wonder if you just buy another tool rest that's larger or are there systems? Better makers than others for reasons I'm not aware of?

I've added a few tool rests to my 12/16 setup. I have the Robust 12" and 9" J-rest. I also have the Oneway 12" curved tool rest for bowls. I also plan on getting the D-way 13" offset for additional reach from the side.

I like the 12" Robust for longer spindles as well as for some bowl turning. I don't use the J rest as much as I thought I would for bowl interiors, but it does come in handy sometimes, though I feel like I have to constantly adjust it. The Oneway curved tool rest is fairly new to me - overall I like it for reaching around larger bowls more easily, but bowl interiors I still have to fiddle around with it a bit, and it does induce vibrations when it is supporting the bowl gouge all the way at the end, but this could also be due to the banjo not holding it as solidly as possible.

Tool rest purchases will really depend on what kind of turning you want to do. If you want to do even smaller things, Robust has a 4" as well, I believe

I've heard good things about Steve Sinner's tool rests, but I believe you have to call in to order, so I haven't tried one of his.

Before you order a tool rest, make sure the post is of the correct diameter and length for the 12/16, and that the distance from the top of the post to the top of the tool rest is also appropriate. If I remember correctly, for the 12/16, you can't use the full height Robust tool rests, you need the shorter one from the tool post top to the tool rest top, if that makes sense.

[Melvin Feng]

Would this be a decent starting point for a chuck to use in tailstock for forstner and other bit drilling procedures? Is there anything about buying a chuck that I should lookout for other than quality/longevity vs price (these are inexpensive options)?

PSI Woodworking Products TM32KL 1/2-Inch Keyless Drill Chuck with #2 Morse Taper Arbor (1/2" 2MT Keyless) ($40)


Rockler sells a keyed chuck and taper which ends up being ($60)

Woodcraft sells WoodRiver - 1/2" Capacity x #2 MT Lathe Keyless Drill Chuck ($64.99

If you had to buy two Forstner bits for drilling boxes what sizes are ideal?

The PSI keyless chuck looks like it would work just fine. I believe all my keyless chucks were right around that price point too, and I have not had any problems with mine.

What size boxes are you thinking of making?

The most common forstner bit that I use is a 2 1/8, which is a very convenient size for me since it is the largest one that I have, and the 2 inch chuck jaws fit into the mortise that this cuts, making bowl mounting a lot easier for me. Other than that, I don't really use any other sizes for my turning. I've thought about larger forstner bits, but there just doesn't seem to be one that has universally great reviews - if you find one though, let me know!

The 2 1/8 forstner bit that I use the most is also the 'wave' style, but by freud: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AV74R/

I do have a woodcraft set from 1/4 through 2 1/8, and I use those in my hand drills when needed typically.

[Allen Mattsen]

The PSI keyless chuck looks like it would work just fine. I believe all my keyless chucks were right around that price point too, and I have not had any problems with mine.

What size boxes are you thinking of making?

The most common forstner bit that I use is a 2 1/8, which is a very convenient size for me since it is the largest one that I have, and the 2 inch chuck jaws fit into the mortise that this cuts, making bowl mounting a lot easier for me. Other than that, I don't really use any other sizes for my turning. I've thought about larger forstner bits, but there just doesn't seem to be one that has universally great reviews - if you find one though, let me know!

The 2 1/8 forstner bit that I use the most is also the 'wave' style, but by freud: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AV74R/

I do have a woodcraft set from 1/4 through 2 1/8, and I use those in my hand drills when needed typically.

2 1/8 seems ideal, thanks. The reason I asked about multiple bits is if people typically use a smaller one first then the full sized (2 1/8) or just one. I'm looking at smaller style boxes and maybe some acorn boxes later on. Spice jars (wife request). But mostly I'm interested in something similar to the boxes George Watkins makes ("from the tree"). Absolutely love his work. Something to aspire to and a project that interests me a lot.
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[Allen Mattsen]

Oh nice, didn't realize you had the same lathe. Once again, I appreciate the support for you (and all the contributors).

[Melvin Feng]

2 1/8 seems ideal, thanks. The reason I asked about multiple bits is if people typically use a smaller one first then the full sized (2 1/8) or just one. I'm looking at smaller style boxes and maybe some acorn boxes later on. Spice jars (wife request). But mostly I'm interested in something similar to the boxes George Watkins makes ("from the tree"). Absolutely love his work. Something to aspire to and a project that interests me a lot.
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Ah! Then I'd recommend looking at those dimensions of what you will be working on the most, and buy based on that. I don't have too much trouble drilling with the 2 1/8 bit on my 12/16, but you do have to be careful as I can definitely stall the motor if I'm too aggressive. With the forstner bit, you also want to pull it out regularly so that it doesn't overheat.

[Allen Mattsen]

Your list of tools above are what I would consider a good starting set. I guess part of selecting what you will want and need is dependent on your lathe. If you have a 16 or bigger lathe, then go with the larger sized tools. If you have a minl lathe, then go with the smaller tools, except for the parting tool, generally thinner is better. Once you get into bowls, you will want at least 2 gouges. One with a more pointed nose, like the 40/40 grind, and a bottom of bowl gouge, which has about a 60 or 70 degree bevel angle. For scrapers, I would suggest 2, one a standard scraper, and one ground to be a NRS (negative rake scraper). Both can be handy, and with the round nose, you can cut in either direction. I would go with at least M2HSS, and not stuff that is just listed as 'HSS' as that kind of quality is not dependable. I have a bunch of videos up on You Tube, mostly about bowl turning, but a lot about sharpening. I am one who prefers to buy better quality tools to start. I still have some tools from the first set I got, back in the days when there were not all the specialty tools around. None of them ever got worn down so short that they were not sharpenable any more. Woodcraft does carry some nice tools. Thompson and D Way have some of the best out there. Packard and Craft Supplies are also good sources, and Lee Valley has some good tools also.

robo hippy

I'm slowly working through your collection of videos and had watched a few before seeing this post. Tons of good info!

I have a Laguna 12/16 Midi lathe, capable of 16" bowls w/ the extension pkg.

Would you have any NRS and curved scraper suggestions? So many out there to choose from. I know I want a 3/4" NRS scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper for making boxes, but perhaps larger size is better for other work like bowls. Eventually I may get to making some of my own tools but I need a starting point for now. Sizing tools is difficult for a newbie like me. I have learned a bit about who makes the quality steel.

I plan on getting a Thompson bowl gouge through the club I've recently become a part of (Southwest Washington Woodturners Association). Primarily, does a 1/2" bowl gouge seem right for the size work I can do on my lathe?

[John K Jordan]

...
Would you have any NRS and curved scraper suggestions? So many out there to choose from. I know I want a 3/4" NRS scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper for making boxes, but perhaps larger size is better for other work like bowls. Eventually I may get to making some of my own tools but I need a starting point for now. Sizing tools is difficult for a newbie like me. I have learned a bit about who makes the quality steel.
...


I've never bought a NRS but I've made plenty, all ground from Thompson tool scraper, skew, round stock and a few ground from gouges. The size and the profile depends on what you are doing. I sometimes regrind one on the fly for a special profile or purpose, for example to fit into a tight spot.

You probably need to start slowly, get more experience, and try various things before you decide what works best for the things you want to do. Remember that any scraper can be reground to make a different kind of scraper. I've posted these before, but after trying a lot of things I find these NRS the most useful for me. I usually put a different NRS grind on the other end for more mileage. I don't put any of these in handles - they are used so gently there is no need.

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(All these are for smoothing, not for hollowing.)

I have more but I don't have more pictures at the moment.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

I've never bought a NRS but I've made plenty, all ground from Thompson tool scraper, skew, round stock and a few ground from gouges. The size and the profile depends on what you are doing. I sometimes regrind one on the fly for a special profile or purpose, for example to fit into a tight spot.

You probably need to start slowly, get more experience, and try various things before you decide what works best for the things you want to do. Remember that any scraper can be reground to make a different kind of scraper. I've posted these before, but after trying a lot of things I find these NRS the most useful for me. I usually put a different NRS grind on the other end for more mileage. I don't put any of these in handles - they are used so gently there is no need.

452677 452678 452679

(All these are for smoothing, not for hollowing.)

I have more but I don't have more pictures at the moment.

JKJ

Those on the left look ideal toward what I'm looking for (or make). What degree is the grind on those on the left? The ones on the right look new to me. I hadn't thought about just not using handles, nice idea. I'm sure it's easier to sharpen/grind that way.

[John K Jordan]

Those on the left look ideal toward what I'm looking for (or make). What degree is the grind on those on the left? The ones on the right look new to me. I hadn't thought about just not using handles, nice idea. I'm sure it's easier to sharpen/grind that way.

Those on the left are the same ones as in the middle. I use about 60-deg included angle for these. I have several ground nearly the same and burnish a burr on the side I want to be up, giving me Left hand and Right hand scrapers, sometimes more appropriate in some areas, inside or out. I can swap the direction as needed by honing off the burr and adding another. I keep several mostly ground the same so as one gets dull I can pick up another.

Most NRS are ground with the lower bevel longer and the upper bevel shorter but it doesn't matter one bit, as long as the included angle is less than 90-deg. By grinding the bottom bevel the same as the top I get the same feel regardless of which side is up. (with the correct burr, of course)

I've seen several professional turners use and sell these ground similarly BUT rounded over at the end where I grind more or less a flat. For me, the flat works far better in some situations, for example holding the tool straight into a mostly flat or slightly dished surface. With the flat I can make a flatter surface without having to pay as much attention! I have never seen any others made like this but I know several people now using this design after seeing it.

Here I'm using the rounded part to work on a concave curve. BTW, from the photo it might look like the tool tip is raised a little but it's not, it's perfectly horizontal and held flat on the rest.

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The flat is especially useful when removing tool marks corners or wings when "turning air". I've had people tell me you cannot use a scraper on wings but I disagree. I keep the speed high, keep the tool rock steady against the rest.

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I do have one I've ground with a rather tight radius on the end for a special purpose, cleaning up in a fairly narrow cove on the base of a piece. Worked well. Also ground at 60-deg with the top and bottom bevels the same. I ground it from a Sorby scraper.

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BTW, you can also use a swept-back spindle or bowl gouge as a NRS if you turn it upside down. Similar to sheer scraping but doesn't cut quite as well BUT can be a little more forgiving than shear scraping if you mess up a bit. Good for tight spots sometimes if you don't have something else handy. I think I was making the box in the 3rd picture.

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I have a bunch of small scrapers as in the photo on the right. One is only about 1/8" wide, rounded on the end. I sometimes small scrapers for a single purpose, sometimes find I use them over end over. I think all of these are sharpened on both ends with a different profile. A small scraper is good for cleaning up inside a recess up against edges in tight places.

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One funny story about the small scrapers - many years ago I was at John C Campbell for a class and I brought some of these along. A good friend at the lathe in front of me turned around and saw the scraper I'd ground from a Thompson shallow detail gouge. He hit the ceiling - said he'd had one on backorder for months and here I was grinding them into scrapers! :)

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

Thoughts on the D-Way bowl gouge, U shaped, fingernail grind vs Thompson V shaped, fingernail grind bowl gouge?

I like the D-way handles and quick-change ability of those and I've read that for a beginner like myself, the Thompson gouge may be a bit more challenging. I get that Thompson's steel is deemed better by most accounts. Just thinking in terms of usability as far as the flute shapes here, mostly.

[John K Jordan]

Thoughts on the D-Way bowl gouge, U shaped, fingernail grind vs Thompson V shaped, fingernail grind bowl gouge?
...

After years of hearing about and trying various grinds and flute shapes I've come to the conclusion that there is not a huge difference, especially to a beginner. Some pros say only use this, this is better, just trust me. Part of the strong recommendation is because that guy has gotten used to it. I'm convinced that an experienced turner can turn well with almost any shape, once he makes a few cuts and sees how it handles.

I think you'll be happy with either tool, or another good brand, especially once you get a chance to experiment with the shape of the grind. What's more important is learning good tool control and how to keep the tool sharp.

My opinion only, some tool connoisseurs will have other opinions.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

What are your thoughts on bottom bowl gouges, specifically if your bowl size limit is 16"?

I noticed Thompson is sold out of them and watched an interesting video on them from D-Way tools. I've read in other (woodturning forum) searches that many think you need the two together but I don't know Probably not necessary at first or for smaller bowls, but need some perspective on this either way.

I'm going to buy the 1/2 D-Way tools fingernail grind bowl gouge with 12" handle tomorrow barring an onslaught of new info 😊

[John Serna]

I just went through this process and got the PSI Benjamin's Best ones. They seem nice. PSI sent me some free carbide ones with the lathe I bought as part of a deal they were running a few months ago, and I sold those for $80 on CL, essentially getting the BB one's for free.

[Allen Mattsen]

New, quality tools so far:

D- Way 1/2 bowl gouge (& 12" handle)
453229
2 other Doug Thompson 3/8 gouges (Spindle and Bowl, bought locally though my club since they had on hand)
453230

I think next must be a good NRS (or grind one from stock) and a box scraper. Hard to decide on the sizes of scrapers
Some say big, heft ones and others use 3/4 or 1".

[David Walser]

Allen -- Congratulations on the new tools! I'm sure they'll serve you well.

I have several negative rake scrapers. In fact, most of my scrapers have been ground to have a negative rake. But you know what my most frequently used negative scraper is? My skew! Laid flat on the tool rest, it is a great negative rake scraper. (I also use my skews for planing cuts, peeling cuts, making beads, shallow coves, etc. Which is why one is always close to hand when I decide I need to refine a shape by scraping.)

[Reed Gray]

The standard burnishers for the card scrapers don't work as well on the M2, and are poor for the M42 and V10 metals. The idea is that the burnishing rod has to be harder or at a minimum, as hard as the metal you are trying to burnish a burr on. I could get a decent burr on M2 with the triangle burnishing rod, but had trouble doing it with the round rod. I use a 3/16 carbide rod for burnishing burrs on my tools now, most of which are M42 and V10, and it also works on the tantung on the Big Ugly tool.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

The standard burnishers for the card scrapers don't work as well on the M2, and are poor for the M42 and V10 metals. The idea is that the burnishing rod has to be harder or at a minimum, as hard as the metal you are trying to burnish a burr on. I could get a decent burr on M2 with the triangle burnishing rod, but had trouble doing it with the round rod. I use a 3/16 carbide rod for burnishing burrs on my tools now, most of which are M42 and V10, and it also works on the tantung on the Big Ugly tool.

robo hippy

Hey Reed, have you tried a triangle carbide burnisher? The Arno I got uses a carbide triangle on one side with a 1/64" radius and an almost 3/16 carbide round rod on the other side AND a great handle! I find my self reaching for it over the other burnishers I keep. Not cheap though.

Hey, I still have a few of the 3/16" rods I'm selfishly holding on to after giving a bunch away. I made up some burnishers and donated them to benefit auctions.

In a pinch the hardened shaft of a turning tool can be used as a burnisher but the diameter is way bigger than I like. The larger the diameter, the more physical pressure it takes to turn the same burr. The tiny radius of the carbide triangle burnisher takes much less force but the burr may not be as uniform. Might not make much difference on a turning tool.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

I haven't seen a triangle burnishing rod. Mine are 3/16. I chatted with Eric Loffstrom at the last Oregon Woodturning Symposium, and he was using a 1/8 inch rod. Triangle would work. I have no problem getting a very sharp burr with the 3/16 rod. It only became a problem raising a burr on my copy of the Sorby 'Hardwood bowl NRS' which had about an 80 degree on the bottom and about a 10 on the top. That one didn't take much of a burr. I prefer 60/25 for my NRSs.

robo hippy

[David Walser]

For those playing along at home, I believe the Arno burnisher John is referring to is this one:
453390


































Here's a close-up of the head of the burnisher. You'll see a triangle shaped carbide rod is on one side and a round rod is on the other:

453391

































It's available for purchase in several places. Prices vary widely. I've not used this type of burnisher. But, on John's recommendation, it looks like it would be worth trying.

[John K Jordan]

For those playing along at home, I believe the Arno burnisher John is referring to is this one:
...

That's exactly the burnisher! Comes with a nice leather case too. I had read about it in some article and decided to get one to try.

This is the one I got ($40) but Amazon says it's unavailable now.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076GW8N5K

But be careful - I see Amazon now sell another similar one that LOOKS similar but it's not the same, it's called the Carbcut Sharpener instead of Carbur Burnisher - the round rod on this one has a helical pattern.
https://www.amazon.com/Arno-Carbcut-Handheld-Carbide-Sharpener/dp/B07J17DMKS
The text indicates this one is for sharpening things like knives, scissors, axes, and hoes. Says the v-shaped carbide insert is made for removing metal, not turning a burr.

Rats, I guess I need to get one to evaluate. Might be good around the farm to touch up tools.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

...
But be careful - I see Amazon now sell another similar one that LOOKS similar but it's not the same, it's called the Carbcut Sharpener instead of Carbur Burnisher - the round rod on this one has a helical pattern.
https://www.amazon.com/Arno-Carbcut-Handheld-Carbide-Sharpener/dp/B07J17DMKS
The text indicates this one is for sharpening things like knives, scissors, axes, and hoes. Says the v-shaped carbide insert is made for removing metal, not turning a burr.

Rats, I guess I need to get one to evaluate. Might be good around the farm to touch up tools.


I got the Arno sharpener today. What they call the v-shaped carbide insert is quite sharp. I tried it out on pocket knife extremely dulled with farm use. It put a surprisingly good edge on the knife and quickly.

As for the Arno burnisher, Sir Google suggests several suppliers, however some of them must think the thing is gold plated...

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

453608453610
453613

These are the only 3 Carbide Burnishers I've been able to find. The Arno one apparently no longer comes with a leather case (at least the one source I've found it in stock). The distinction is 'sharpener' vs 'burnisher' when looking at the Arno tools. Best I've found is around $54. Probably a worthy investment base on what you guys are saying. I'd like to learn more about the one Reed was talking about.

I've seen where people are mounting solid carbide router bits in handles, too, for a similar task. Might also be worth a try as a secondary option.

1-5/16 or 1" NRS scraper, or grind my own from Thompson stock. Still can't decide. That Thompson flat stock is $$$! At least I finally have tracking info for my grinder and 180 wheel. The 600 is a couple weeks away still. Progress...

I should clarify: what I'm looking for is a good sized NRS for cleaning up bowls - for when I get some minor tearout or simply have a tough time making a clean pass with a bowl gouge in the harder to reach areas. Probably for outside of bowls as well, but mainly transition areas inside. D-Way makes a large and medium tool for this that interests me. Details: Curved Neg Rake Scraper - LRG - 1 5/16" x 3/8"- 5/8" Tang. They have 1" and 3/4" versions of this tool also. Any other recommendations? Does the 1-5/16 do the trick or at what point does its size become a drawback?

[David Bassett]

... The Arno one apparently no longer comes with a leather case (at least the one source I've found it in stock). ... Best I've found is around $54. ...

Lost Art Press has it on their website, under the Crucible Tool tab, listed with the leather sheath for $40.

[Allen Mattsen]

Lost Art Press has it on their website, under the Crucible Tool tab, listed with the leather sheath for $40.

Thanks! Got one ordered. Cross carbide burnisher off the list. :D

[Allen Mattsen]

Lacer teardrop diamond hone?

[John K Jordan]

Lacer teardrop diamond hone?

There are a number of useful hones. I have a teardrop and flat hones but for the inside of flutes of various sizes I prefer this tapered one which provides a variety of diameters.

453822

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

There are a number of useful hones. I have a teardrop and flat hones but for the inside of flutes of various sizes I prefer this tapered one which provides a variety of diameters.

453822

JKJ

That's what I'm looking for - I figure w/ the Arno Burnisher I can raise/remove burrs from flat tools but want something useful for the inside flutes of gouges. Could you give me more info on that tool and where to get it? I think, ultimately, coming off the 600 grit wheel and honing the inside flutes of my gouges that'll do quite nicely. Learning the nuances of how to get turning tools sharp is fun and interesting to me. I sharpened fine cutlery as a chef for many years so perhaps I'm going too crazy about this but there's is a goal here. ��

[John K Jordan]

That's what I'm looking for - I figure w/ the Arno Burnisher I can raise/remove burrs from flat tools but want something useful for the inside flutes of gouges. Could you give me more info on that tool and where to get it? I think, ultimately, coming off the 600 grit wheel and honing the inside flutes of my gouges that'll do quite nicely. Learning the nuances of how to get turning tools sharp is fun and interesting to me. I sharpened fine cutlery as a chef for many years so perhaps I'm going too crazy about this but there's is a goal here. ��

The diamond compound on it is very fine. I have others that are a bit coarser.
https://www.amazon.com/DMT-DCSFH-Diamond-Small-Handle/dp/B00004WFT1
Here are other types:
https://www.amazon.com/Retractable-Diamond-Sharpening-Rod-Green/dp/B01N9HN567
https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Machine-Technology-DMT-DMTFSKF-BRK/dp/B00004WFTZ
I also use a ceramic slip stone on occasion, like this but a little wider:
https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Ceramic-File-Slip-400F1SP/dp/B000KTXLAC

These are good for removing grinder burrs inside the flute or touching up the edge inside the flute.

The carbide burnishers like the Arno are for adding a burnished burr to cabinet and hand scrapers, not for removing burrs. I remove burrs from scrapers of all types with the Extra Fine Eze-Lap paddle hone, the blue one here. I use them often for removing burrs and honing skews and such and sharpening special tools. They aren't real cheap if you buy them individually from Woodcraft so I contacted the company and bought a lifetime supply for much less than the retail price.

453872

But for removing burrs on tools right off the grinder, nothing beats the straight leather wheel and the leather profile wheels on the slow speed Tormek. While I usually sharpen just my spindle gouges with the Tormek, I use the honing wheels on almost every tool. The profiled leather wheels are great for stropping/honing inside flutes and the outside of gouges. I use the larger straight leather wheel for skews and often other tools. These leather wheels have a stropping/honing paste with very fine abrasive applied to the leather.

The newest version of theTormek stropping/honing wheels look like this. (no use without a Tormek or rigging one to a very slowly rotating motor.)

453875

The straight leather wheel is on the left, the profiled on the right. These are new; after being doped with a bit of oil and the polishing paste, with use they become smooth and black from the steel removed. Since I use the Tormek a a lot for this I have it on a foot switch for a quick stropping after grinding.

You can make your own stropping/honing straight and profiled wheels. I know a guy who turned some profiled wheels from MDF and mounts them on his lathe. Flat disks of MDF were common years ago to do the same thing as the Tormek leather wheel.

I've developed something even better than that for touching up skews when they start to get dull with use. I draw them across a piece of MDF with polishing compound from a stick rubbed on the surface. The give the MDF some "bite" to hold the compound I first resaw it with the bandsaw and use the rougher surface. Hold the skew with the bevel flat against the MDF, raise the handle a fraction of a degree, press hard and pull back. A single stroke or two is sufficient for each side to restore the "shaving sharp" edge. You can see that it's working by the black steel marks on the MDF.

453877

One more thing on burnishers. For those using large conventional scrapers for hollowing and such, the Veritas scraper burnisher permits a lot of force which is helpful for large scrapers. I don't use mine any more since I rarely use that type of scraper now, but when I did I used it often. You basically use the front pin to apply leverage against one of the tapered carbide pins. It's screwed down to the workbench or a board.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/jigs-mounts-and-rests/20266-veritas-scraper-burnisher-for-turners

453876

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

Wow, great info, JKJ!

I use a leather stop & compound for my chisels and plane blades - perhaps that could be an interim solution while I sort something else out or use MDF.

Alternatively, why not remove the Burr using one of my 3 diamond plates (or the Lacer teardrop stone if I get one)? I suppose there are a lot of ways to do this and it does get a little cloudy with all the methods and steps but I'm just a sponge over here 😁

It would seem the slower speeds of my drill press might work if I made a wheel setup for it using leather and/or MDF?

Is there a specific type of compound that works better with V10, M42, other HSS steels vs that used for typical hand tool steel?

Order of operations, in general (maybe not grind every time):

Grinding > Burr removal > honing (gouges)
Grinding > Burr removal > honing > stropping (scrapers, skews, etc)

I don't see an easy reason to strop gouges unless you can somehow strop inside the flute to match both edges, but polishing even just the outside/bevel(s) by stropping would seem to lead to a better surface or cleaner cut. Perhaps I'm conflating stopping for Burr removal and stropping to polish as the final step in a sharpening process?

[Melvin Feng]

New, quality tools so far:

D- Way 1/2 bowl gouge (& 12" handle)
453229
2 other Doug Thompson 3/8 gouges (Spindle and Bowl, bought locally though my club since they had on hand)
453230

I think next must be a good NRS (or grind one from stock) and a box scraper. Hard to decide on the sizes of scrapers
Some say big, heft ones and others use 3/4 or 1".

Nice choices! It looks like you've already put them to some good use, I'm sure you will enjoy using them for quite some time - these newer steels stay sharper longer, so the tools will actually last you much longer than other HSS tools.

As for Negative Rake Scrapers, I had the same conundrum, and bought both the medium and large d-way sizes. I haven't personally found any particular preference for one size over the other, though they do have different tip shapes as well, so I use them for different tasks. I will say that I never think "I wish I had a smaller scraper" or "I wish I had a bigger scraper", I just use the tool as best I can for the work I do, and I am satisfied with all of them. I tend to think that you will feel comfortable with whatever size you get.

[John K Jordan]

... I will say that I never think "I wish I had a smaller scraper" ...

Might depend on the use. I have some specially ground NRS that are 1/4" and one that is 1/8". These I use for special purposes such as small detail in end grain on the bottoms or lids or boxes. With the right wood the finish off the tool is like glass.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

I've added a few tool rests to my 12/16 setup. I have the Robust 12" and 9" J-rest. I also have the Oneway 12" curved tool rest for bowls. I also plan on getting the D-way 13" offset for additional reach from the side.

I like the 12" Robust for longer spindles as well as for some bowl turning. I don't use the J rest as much as I thought I would for bowl interiors, but it does come in handy sometimes, though I feel like I have to constantly adjust it. The Oneway curved tool rest is fairly new to me - overall I like it for reaching around larger bowls more easily, but bowl interiors I still have to fiddle around with it a bit, and it does induce vibrations when it is supporting the bowl gouge all the way at the end, but this could also be due to the banjo not holding it as solidly as possible.

Tool rest purchases will really depend on what kind of turning you want to do. If you want to do even smaller things, Robust has a 4" as well, I believe

I've heard good things about Steve Sinner's tool rests, but I believe you have to call in to order, so I haven't tried one of his.

Before you order a tool rest, make sure the post is of the correct diameter and length for the 12/16, and that the distance from the top of the post to the top of the tool rest is also appropriate. If I remember correctly, for the 12/16, you can't use the full height Robust tool rests, you need the shorter one from the tool post top to the tool rest top, if that makes sense.

I definitely need a tool rest for bowls. Doing a deeper one today (for me) it's tough to get the interior cuts done smoothly with my stock rest.

Anyone have specifics for bowl rests for the Laguna 1216?

I got a hold of a 8" Robo Hippy rest through my club but it's too tall to fit over the bed ways and stay at correct height. I'm thinking of taking it to a shop if some kind to have it cut down shorter. Is that a bad idea? I think it might fit as is if I were to do outboard turning on this lathe as there is a height extension knuckle but I'm already deciding if I want to continue investing in this machine or upgrade to full sized lathe ��.

Is the Laguna 1216 considered a 12 or 16" lathe with regards to Robust tool rest sizing?

[Reed Gray]

Allen, you can make the post shorter, not too difficult. Making it longer, if you ever step up to a bigger lathe is not as easy... I am expecting to see them back on the market this year. All parts and pieces were given to some one who said, 'some time after the first quarter of this year'. Stay tuned...

robo hippy

[Allen Mattsen]

Allen, you can make the post shorter, not too difficult. Making it longer, if you ever step up to a bigger lathe is not as easy... I am expecting to see them back on the market this year. All parts and pieces were given to some one who said, 'some time after the first quarter of this year'. Stay tuned...

robo hippy

Great news! Any chance of a Robo Rest grinder platform? I'd love one of those!

[Reed Gray]

Uggh!!!!! I really do not like the way responses to threads are done on this forum..... No order to it, and those 'more replies below current depth' is probably the worst of it. Makes it very difficult, at least for me to find anything or to find new responses. It is like they are trying to hide things. Does it bother any one else like it does me?

Anyway, Allen, my grinder platforms have also been given to some one to manufacture again. "Some time after the end of the first quarter of this year". Can't tell you who yet...

For bottom of the bowl gouges, I have a number of them. Any parabolic or U or half round flute will work excellently. I always grind them to a ) shape nose, so just a little sweep to it, and a 70 degree bevel, which will get me through the tightest transitions I do. I have a couple of spindle detail type gouges that have also been ground that way. They are great for taking a 1/4 inch wide shaving. I like the Thompson fluteless gouge, which is good for taking at max a 1/8 inch wide shaving. The advantage of these tools is that I can stand them on edge and get a higher shear/slice angle for a cleaner cut. Easier to do it with these than the deeper fluted gouges.

I think it was on this thread where there was a comment about which is better, the Thompson V10 or the D Way M42. I can't tell any difference in edge holding, finest/sharpest edge or cleanest cuts. I have a friend who turned myrtlewood trays for the Oregon Coast shops, some thing like 700/year for almost 30 years. He could give you a weather forecast based on how his myrtlewood was cutting. He couldn't tell any difference. I heard Stuart Batty comment some thing like 'with the V10, there is no reason to go to M42'. I don't agree with that at all....

For cleanest cuts, most of the time with gouges it isn't necessary to hone the edge. Some times honing, as well as sharpening on a 600 grit wheel can make a big difference. I think all skews should be honed on a strop, not just diamond hones which only go to 1000 grit. There is still a burr. Learning to hone made me dust off my old Tormek. It does have a side wheel for rounded shapes, cove and bead... I was turning some really soft silver maple a few days ago, and the 40/40 was doing an okay job. Used the leather wheel on the inside and outside of the flutes, and that did a better job. Good enough so that I can sand it down without having to leave dents in the wood.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

Uggh!!!!! I really do not like the way responses to threads are done on this forum..... No order to it, and those 'more replies below current depth' is probably the worst of it. Makes it very difficult, at least for me to find anything or to find new responses. It is like they are trying to hide things. Does it bother any one else like it does me?


I don't like it either. Some people use the Linear, Most Recent First viewing options (settings, general) but I have a harder time following the threads that way - much of the time I can't guess what or who a message is a reply to since many people don't use the simple Reply with Quote feature. So I use the Hybrid mode and suffer through the long threads. It is so much easier when threads are short.

I always click the button that shows the most recent post to a thread, but without digging it's easy to miss several previous new posts. Truth be known, I often give up and I'm getting to the point I don't care if I miss something!

JKJ

[Thomas Wilson80]

I don't like it either. Some people use the Linear, Most Recent First viewing options (settings, general) but I have a harder time following the threads that way - much of the time I can't guess what or who a message is a reply to since many people don't use the simple Reply with Quote feature. So I use the Hybrid mode and suffer through the long threads. It is so much easier when threads are short.

I always click the button that shows the most recent post to a thread, but without digging it's easy to miss several previous new posts. Truth be known, I often give up and I'm getting to the point I don't care if I miss something!

JKJ
I find it very helpful to navigate using the “first unread post” button (settings are linear threads with oldest first). Before I realized there was a “first unread button” it was somewhat cumbersome.

This forum has been so so helpful to me as a new turner. I’m very grateful for everyone’s posts and willingness to answer questions!
Tom

[John K Jordan]

I find it very helpful to navigate using the “first unread post” button (settings are linear threads with oldest first). Before I realized there was a “first unread button” it was somewhat cumbersome.


Me too. Then I usually scroll up in the thread tree to find that message (in bold text) and see if there are any "next to last" messages I missed. Still a pain but not too bad. If I were king it might have some enhancements.

I'm glad you are enjoying the forum! There is not much I like better than answering questions and sharing ideas (about things within my experience!)

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

For those following along my next purchase was a 1-5/16 NRS (negative rake scraper) and a 1/2" bottom bowl gouge from D-Way. Quick shipping and great tools. Very pleased with D-Way tools. Nearly got the 1" round nose NRS, too but wanted to see what I had in my starter set version after my sharpening gear arrived. Also eyeballing the box master flat bottom box (double-ended) tool but held off for now.

Likely, I'll pick up a quality parting tool eventually, and a 5/8" bowl gouge but I'm kinda holding off on the 5/8 gouges while I learn the 3/8 and 1/2 sizes and decide on how to proceed (and how soon) I'm going to buy a full sized lathe. I'm interested to have another 1/2 bowl gouge with a different grind or flute shape. Have looked at the Jameson, but (trying to) be patient while I hone in on what I enjoy doing and what features I need vs want. I'll post more on that in another thread. 😅

Great feedback in this thread - I'm appreciative for all the help so far.

I've been turning lots of bowls and have found that to be fantastic! I really love turning bowls! I also plan to do more boxes and some entry level type hollow forms once I have the tooling. That said: bowls are where it's at!

I'm more and more interested in the Hunter tools but it's tough to figure out which tools do what the best despite lots of reading about them and limited video content out there on them. Anyone who uses them: sharing your Hunter tools experiences would be great.

Also, I'd like a J-Rest or other curved or bowl rest to allow me to get closer to the work. I may modify the 8" Robo rest I have, as it's a 1" post and a larger lathe will almost certainly be 1-1/4 post. I think I can get a machine shop to hack a couple inches off of it or something.

454490
454492

[John K Jordan]

...
I'm more and more interested in the Hunter tools but it's tough to figure out which tools do what the best despite lots of reading about them and limited video content out there on them. Anyone who uses them: sharing your Hunter tools experiences would be great.
...

I have most if not all of the Hunter tools here (except for those I didn't use as much and gave away) and it's hard to say what tools always do what particular thing best. I switch tools as needed. I'm known to make cuts with several different tools as I remove wood, sometimes practicing finishing cuts long before I'm at the point where I am actually making the finishing cuts. This lets me see how that tool works with that piece of wood in that situation.

One thing: I almost always turn dry wood since turning green wood is so easy I'm bored with it AND I no longer enjoy turning twice AND I've turned enough big bowls for my lifetime. For bowls and platters from dry wood I tend to use the Hunter Hercules instead of a bowl gouge. You can get beautiful surfaces with both but the two behave a bit differently in one respect - for some cuts the bowl gouge directs hot chips up the flute towards my hand which can be painful unless wearing a glove. The Hunter Hercules deflects the chips more to the side so they don't hit my hand. Also I don't have to stop and sharpen the Hunter tool occasionally as I do with the bowl gouge.

I'll use the Hercules a lot for shaping some spindles too but not for the detail I can get from a skew chisel or spindle gouge, shallow spindle gouge, or spindle detail gouge. The Hunter 5/8" spindle roughing gouge is my favorite for small work.

Some of the tools are better for hollowing inside a box or vase or something with a smaller opening. One of Mikes sets of three smaller tools is the best I know of for small hollow forms and boxes with small openings. This is the set that Mark StLeger designed. There are equivalent larger tools for larger work but I don't think they are sold as a set.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

So as far as the individual turning tool purchases, this is where I think it is really hard to get out of our own heads. Some turners specialize in finials, so their tooling is catered to that, while others do bowls with traditional gouges and have a good selection there, and others do bowls with scrapers, so they have multiples of those. Some try to be able to do a bit of everything, so have more generalized tools.

I think this is where your own practice, experience, and preferences will come much more into play.

As far as quality manufacturers, there are three that are fairly popular: D-Way, Thompson, Carter and sons. I personally started buying D-Way as my nice tooling, and was so happy with them, that I haven't ventured far. I do have plans to try out some Thompson tools in the future though.

If you want to be able to do small boxes easily, I have been eyeing the boxmaster tools at D-Way. I haven't bought any, but they are on my short list to get in the future, and most are double ended, which makes it really convenient to get two different but related tools on the same piece of steel. This is the one I plan on getting: https://d-waytools.com/5-8-double-ended-straight-sided-flat-bottom-box-tool/

Here is my current inventory of unhandled tools (most being D-way):
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50910059396_240aa0e38e_b.jpg

I have a separate drawer for the handles:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50396000351_d4ac530a63_b.jpg

For me, the first D-way tools I bought were the 5/8" bowl gouge, spindle roughing gouge, 3/8" spindle gouge, 1 inch skew, and the round nosed negative rake scraper. This gave me some good tools for general use. The second order was when I added the 5/8" bottom feeder bowl gouge, 1/2" spindle, beading tools (I wanted to try them out, they are more of a specialty use, but they work great), parting tool, and the other negative rake scrapers (straight spear point, and curved).

If you want a bowl gouge with a handle already, then the Ellsworth signature gouge made by crown is an great gouge, and I use mine often in addition to the d-way bowl gouge. If you really get into bowls, you may accumulate a whole bevy of bowl gouges with different grinds and flute profiles.

If you get more into finials and the like, look up Cindy Drozda, she has contracted with some manufacturers (I want to say Thompson for many of them) for her specific grinds and profiles.

So I think the biggest thing is for you to get comfortable with your lathe, and try out some different kinds of turnings, and then when you decide that you want to get more into a specific type of turning, buy the tools that are best suited for that. You will most likely also have preferences ebb and wane, so you may end up with a whole bunch of tools of every which kind after a decade of turning, and appreciate each and every one of them!

As a quick personal example: I started with making pens, and did that for a long time, then did some one off random projects, then getting into cups and small bowls. I did this all with Easy Wood Tools for many years. When I decided to try larger bowls, I realized that the easy wood tools weren't the best suited tool, and that is when I decided to get traditional tools and learn how to sharpen, and then once I felt comfortable, I later bought the D-way tools. At one point I wanted to get into hollow vessels, which meant that I needed additional tools as well, so I got the #3 Easy wood tools swan neck hollower, and then also added the Hunter Carbide Badger tools for hollow vessels. I'll probably want to try some finials later, and will most likely get some more specialty spindle gouges to do that. I find it fun to try new types of turnings, and to make a whole bunch of mistakes, and then see my progress over time.

I hope this helps at least a bit!

Which Hunter tools are in the far left (top photo)?

I want to get a couple Hunter tools to hollow boxes and begin trying some hollow forms. I've looked at getting the #4 Hunter tool for starters.

Has anyone tried the "Adjuster" tool?

I want to have a good bit of versatility whatever I begin with and don't want to get tools that end up being too small as I'm not into fine, detailed ornaments etc. I'm excited to try these cupped cutters. All my other tools so far are traditional. Forstener bits only get me so far and with a specific result. Need some hollowing tools 😃

[John K Jordan]

Which Hunter tools are in the far left (top photo)?

I want to get a couple Hunter tools to hollow boxes and begin trying some hollow forms. I've looked at getting the #4 Hunter tool for starters.

Has anyone tried the "Adjuster" tool?

I want to have a good bit of versatility whatever I begin with and don't want to get tools that end up being too small as I'm not into fine, detailed ornaments etc. I'm excited to try these cupped cutters. All my other tools so far are traditional. Forstener bits only get me so far and with a specific result. Need some hollowing tools 😃

I've tried both the small and large Adjuster tools. I kept the small one, nice for my use. For small boxes and forms I do like the "Small Tapered 3 Piece Set". Based on what you said, this set is probably not for you.

BTW, the large one at the left in Melvin's first photo looks like the #5, now called the Badger #5, with the Badger #5 swan neck next to it. I have these plus the reverse swan neck. These are very stout tools. 5/8" shafts. I haven't used the reverse yet but have used the others quite a bit. I think I mentioned this before but my favorite Hunter tool for bowls and platters is the Hercules, used just like a bowl gouge. I use the small Hercules more than the large.

If you can, visit someone who has all the Hunter tools so you can try before you buy.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

I went ahead and ordered the #5 Badger tool and a Jimmy Clewes box scraper. Probably will order the swan neck version of the Badger tool. I can plug the Badger into the 5/8" D-Way handle I have. I'll give those a shot and see what's next. Probably a swan neck tool also. I definitely want to begin some hollowing and want to see how I enjoy the Hunter tools before going too crazy. I still ha E a new lathe to order (soon!). I'm having a blast doing a lot of bowls and learning primarily the 1/2 bowl and bottom feeder gouges and 1-5/16" NRS. Excellent tools and I'm happy with all the choices I've made so far. Slow and steady wins the race...