Rikon Grinder, CBN Wheel Types, Grit Choices

[Allen Mattsen]

So I'm setting up a sharpening station for lathe/turning tools and have a few questions:

1) Rikon 1HP slow speed grinder or the 1/2HP model for running 1 or 2 CBN wheels?

2) Which wheel(s) to start with and what grit? I want to use for maintaining some chisels, etc., secondarily, so was thinking of the "Mega Square" wheel as the first one - at 180 grit. Follow that up with 350 or 600 and what type (model) for the second wheel? Is the 4-in-1 or Radius Edge a better choice for the lower grit wheel? Is 180 the best grit to be the lower grit of the two? Which wheel type is better for the lower and higher grits and why?

I don't plan to to a lot of tool shaping or restoration. Maybe a chipped chisel or re-bevel a plane blade here or there. Mainly this setup is for turning tools so I want that to be the primary driver of the choices I make but need to hear from some experienced folks first. I plan to also call Ken at woodturnerswonders early this week to see what he says.

Thanks in advance. I'm new at this and don't want to waste money and hope to get the desired results for the long term the first time.

[John K Jordan]

So I'm setting up a sharpening station for lathe/turning tools and have a few questions:

1) Rikon 1HP slow speed grinder or the 1/2HP model for running 1 or 2 CBN wheels?

2) Which wheel(s) to start with and what grit? I want to use for maintaining some chisels, etc., secondarily, so was thinking of the "Mega Square" wheel as the first one - at 180 grit. Follow that up with 350 or 600 and what type (model) for the second wheel? Is the 4-in-1 or Radius Edge a better choice for the lower grit wheel? Is 180 the best grit to be the lower grit of the two? Which wheel type is better for the lower and higher grits and why?

I don't plan to to a lot of tool shaping or restoration. Maybe a chipped chisel or re-bevel a plane blade here or there. Mainly this setup is for turning tools so I want that to be the primary driver of the choices I make but need to hear from some experienced folks first. I plan to also call Ken at woodturnerswonders early this week to see what he says.

Thanks in advance. I'm new at this and don't want to waste money and hope to get the desired results for the long term the first time.

There's been a lot of discussion about this so you might find some useful discussion with a search. Otherwise, some quick opinions:

Based on my experience the Rikon 1/2hp will work fine with aluminum CBN wheels; steel wheels might be a bit heavy. The 1hp works well and I recommend it if you have the coin (although the light they put on it is worse then useless). I use one of each plus a 3/4hp grinder.
I prefer a square edged wheel since it gives more useful sharpening area AND better allows grinding and sharpening custom tools. There aren't too many reasons to buy one with the radii - the biggest one is to sharpen long hollowing tools that have non-removable bits with curved tips.
Unlike your plan, I do a fair amount of heavy tool shaping so I have a 60 grit CBN. People who do less shaping will probably be happy with the 180. Ken Rizza will tell you what the top sellers are. For skews, scrapers, and bowl gouges I use a 600 grit, honing the edge after sharpening.
For my spindle gouges I use a 1200 grit CBN on a Tormek but I'm probably pickier than might be reasonable.

JKJ

[roger wiegand]

Definitely budget for a decent light for your grinder. I have and like the 1 hp machine, it seems adequate in every way. I have two 180 grit wheels on it, one set up with the varigrind for my bowl gouge the other with the platform for everything else. I hone frequently with a 600 grit diamond hone, takes about 10 seconds from the 180 grit finish by hand, so I've never felt a need for a finer grit. I'd like to have a much coarser grit for the occasional re-shaping of tools. I get by without it. I'm doing OK with sharpening hollowing bits on the square corner.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the 1/2 hp Rikon with a white wheel on one side and a 120 grit cbn on the other. I think 2 cbn wheels might be a strain on it.

[Allen Mattsen]

This is exactly the stuff I hope to hear so far. I search and read tons of older threads but seemed there wasn't anything recent. Seems 180 is the first wheel to get, but still have to sort out the wheel type/model. I wonder which profile is best for honing things like parting tools and scrapers compared with rounded or fluted tools if I indeed get 2 different wheels. Also seems many complain about the smaller grinding surface area of one of the wheels - It's tricky 😅

[David Walser]

...Also seems many complain about the smaller grinding surface area of one of the wheels - It's tricky 

Yes, it's tricky. But, then again, it's not. CBN wheels are so vastly superior to the A/O wheels we used before, just about any of them will be a noticeable improvement. Kinda a like switching from a horse and cart to a modern car or truck. Lots of different cars and trucks to choose from, but any one of them will be a vast improvement over your single horse powered vehicle. So, jump in!

If I had it to do over again, I'd get the mega square wheels with a 1hp Rikon grinder. I bought the Spartan wheels in 180 and 600 grits. (I also got the 1hp grinder, when CSUSA was running a sale.) They work fine. However, the Spartan wheels are narrower. You'll need spacers to get them to fit if you're running without the guards. I just don't like the look of the spacers.

[John K Jordan]

This is exactly the stuff I hope to hear so far. type/model....

I didn’t see if it was mentioned but I think the spherical washers that Ken Rizza sells are worth using. They can eliminate any slight wobble you might get if the stock washers/nuts are not perfect. Quite inexpensive; I use them on all my CBN wheels.

[Reed Gray]

The Rikon grinders do go on sale once in a while. I prefer bigger and heavier tools because I can abuse them more, so I would suggest going with the 1 hp Rikon. It has plenty of power to spin my steel wheels from D Way. I removed the light on my Rikon. It is just about as worthless as the grinder platforms that come with any grinder. I also take the rubber feet off, and bolt them to plywood bases. That comes in handy if you are traveling. I prefer to have my own grinder when I demo.

For wheels, if you are getting one, get the 180. If you are getting 2, then go with the 600. Very little difference between the 320 and the 600. I use the 180 for 90% of my sharpening. The 600 grit doesn't hold up to the heavy roughing I do, but is excellent for fine finish cuts, and for the skew edge, but the skew still needs to be honed on a leather wheel or strop. The helical washers do work. They are needed because the nuts on most grinders are not 'precision' machined and can cause wobble in your wheels. I do have a belt sander with a 36 grit belt for shaping, but old coarse wheels that come with the grinders can be okay for that job. I have one set of wheels with the radius edges and don't like them. I don't do much hollowing, and they were specifically designed for the small hollowing tips. Never used any side grind options.

robo hippy

[William C Rogers]

I’m using the 1/2 hp Rikon. I have one steel CBN and one aluminum. The grinder works, but takes longer to start up. A 3/4 - 1 hp grinder is a better option, but more $$. My recommendation is a 180 if just one CBN wheel and if a second CBN wheel I would go with a 80 grit. I don’t see a need for a finer grit especially just starting out.

[Allen Mattsen]

So I spoke with someone at W.Wonders and it was suggested I go 4-in-1 or Radius Edge for the lower grit (180) and Mega Square for the finer grit. As far as 350 vs 600 on the [ ] wheel / finer grit I'm told it depends on the steel it's interacting with. Low to mid-range tools such as Sorby, Benjamin's Best / PSI work better on the 350 and the higher end tools (Thompson, Carter n Sons, etc) better on the 600. Interesting stuff. She said the 600 grit wheel can clog easier with lower end steel but they have also recently added a product to keep the wheels from clogging, which I hadn't yet read or seen. Having not shelled out for high end tools (yet) perhaps 350 is the way to go on the finer grit. I used diamond stones for my hand tools, so it's hard for me to accept going 350 over 600 any way you slice it, but this is a new world to me. :)

[John K Jordan]

So I spoke with someone at W.Wonders and it was suggested I go 4-in-1 or Radius Edge for the lower grit (180) and Mega Square for the finer grit. As far as 350 vs 600 on the [ ] wheel / finer grit I'm told it depends on the steel it's interacting with. Low to mid-range tools such as Sorby, Benjamin's Best / PSI work better on the 350 and the higher end tools (Thompson, Carter n Sons, etc) better on the 600. Interesting stuff. She said the 600 grit wheel can clog easier with lower end steel but they have also recently added a product to keep the wheels from clogging, which I hadn't yet read or seen. Having not shelled out for high end tools (yet) perhaps 350 is the way to go on the finer grit. I used diamond stones for my hand tools, so it's hard for me to accept going 350 over 600 any way you slice it, but this is a new world to me. :)

The clogging will not happen with hardened High Speed steel, or even hardened tool steel unless you grind too aggressively and destroy the hardness (as I mention below). Loading up the wheel can happen with heavy grinding of mild steel.

I've sharpened all types of tools here, from the best to "low end" and the 350 vs 600 grit recommendation you were given sounds like nonsense to me. The difference in the edge when examined under the microscope is considerable. Most of my tools are Thompson but just the other day I sharpened all of a friend's tools which are about as low end as you can get. No problem with the 600 grit - but see the comment below about overheating the edge.

BTW, at first I bought 180 and 350 grit CBN with radiused edges and sold one and gave the other away. In my opinion (and for MY use) the 600 grit is far better - it gives a great edge and quick stropping makes the edge hair-shaving sharp. Of course, some of it depends on how and what you turn. I've already give my opinion on the radiused wheels. I'm wondering if they are pushing radiused wheels for some reason.

One possible thing - cheap or old tools that are hardened tool steel and NOT high speed steel can have their hardness damaged by overheating. If you generate enough heat to turn the edge blue you've destroyed the hardness there and must then grind past that zone to get to good steel. That's where a finer grit wheel might cause problems, especially for someone learning to sharpen. Since the 600 grit takes off less steel for the same pressure, someone who presses harder could overheat the edge where a coarser wheel will take off steel quicker with less pressure. This is only important for non-HSS tools which are best avoided. But there is little reason to buy new lathe tools that are not HSS. Even Benjamin's Best HSS tools are only about $10 each when bought in a set.

Hey, I know: get two grinders and a 60, 180, 350, and 600 and report back. :)

But I may tend to be excessive so you might want to listen to someone else. This is part of my sharpening setup.
I also have two other bench grinders and a second Tormek not shown here.
451029
I use conventional aluminum oxide wheels for mild steel.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

Lots of 'flat' wheels there, John.
I appreciate all the feedback, good, bad, or otherwise. Some of us don't mind the real truth and there's no substitute for experience (and common sense) 😎

[tom lucas]

I purchased the 1 HP Rikon with 80 and 180 Mega CBNs. I wish I had purchased 180 and something finer like the 600 grit. The 80 is pretty handy for shaping though and useful if you buy "blank" stock to make your own scrapers. One day when/if I have room for a second grinder it'll have higher grit wheels. The 180 is adequate though. It raises a burr quickly, which is all you want on scrapers. My skews, for now, get refined on a Tormek, which is a slower process.

[William C Rogers]

I agree with what JKJ says, however I still recommend going with the 80 and 180 grits for a new turner. I do not have a 600 grit wheel for these reasons. True you do get a nice fine edge from 600 grit wheels, however this is really only good for a finish cut and won’t hold that edge IMO. Definitely not good for rough turning removing stock IMO. There are times I will sharpen my scrapers on the 80 grit because I want that aggressive bur from that grit wheel. I usually go straight from the grinder and don’t roll a bur on my scrapers. I can also use the 80 grit to reshape tools. I can get a very good surface on a finish cut using the 180 grit wheel, so fo MY turnings a 600 does not offer that much. The main use for the radius CBN Wheels is grinding the small hollow form bits.

[David Walser]

I agree with what JKJ says, however I still recommend going with the 80 and 180 grits for a new turner. I do not have a 600 grit wheel for these reasons. True you do get a nice fine edge from 600 grit wheels, however this is really only good for a finish cut and won’t hold that edge IMO. Definitely not good for rough turning removing stock IMO. There are times I will sharpen my scrapers on the 80 grit because I want that aggressive bur from that grit wheel. I usually go straight from the grinder and don’t roll a bur on my scrapers. I can also use the 80 grit to reshape tools. I can get a very good surface on a finish cut using the 180 grit wheel, so fo MY turnings a 600 does not offer that much. ...

Interesting. When I first started turning, back in 2002, one article of faith common among the turning community was that a tool sharpened on and 80 grit wheel held its edge better than one sharpened on a 120 grit wheel. (Back then, aluminium oxide wheels were state of the art for turners.) The theory was the more 'ragged edge' from an 80 grit wheel acted like a serrated knife, allowing the tool to cut efficiently for a longer time. Many turners claimed they got a better cut and a longer lasting edge straight off the 80 grit wheel than they did after honing at 300 or 600 grit. We debated this question here on Sawmill Creek quite frequently.

Then, some people started examining this question with the aid of a microscope. Alan Lacer was one. He wrote an article in American Woodturner that included several magnified pictures of the edges produced by different sharpening media and with a magnified picture of the cut quality these pictures produced. Alan concluded a sharper tool left a better, cleaner, surface.

Another article was written by a university professor who set up a fairly rigorous experiment to test the hypothesis that a lower grit wheel produced a longer lasting edge. He used a jig to precisely sharpen each tool to the same bevel angle with different sharpening media. IIRC, he used an 80 grit wheel, a 120 grit wheel, honing to 600 grit, and a Tormek with its 1,000 grit wheel and leather strop. He tested skews, spindle gouges, and scrapers. His results were exactly opposite of the long-held article of faith. He found the higher the grit used the longer the edge lasted -- without exception. To perform the experiment, he used each tool to cut wood until the tool was too dull to cut efficiently. To measure this, he used a sensor to measure the force required to push the tool through the wood and established at what point a certain amount of force required yielded a poor surface on the wood. That was the 'dull' point. He then measured how many linear feet each tool could cut before reaching the dull point. As suggested, the tools sharpened on the Tormek turned more linear feet of wood before reaching the dull point than did those turned on an 80 grit wheel, with the others lining up in order of the grit used to sharpen them. He also looked at the bur left by the grinder that is used with scrapers (and is often left on when using other turning tools). He examined the bur both right after the grinder and after a few seconds of cutting. Frequently, the bur simply folded over the cutting edge -- dulling it almost as soon as the tool touched the wood. In his tests, he found such scrapers became 'sharper' after a little use. That is, they cut more cleanly once the bur from the grinder haw worn away. Honing the bur off (for both scrapers and 'regular' turning tools) and raising a bur for use with a scraper, produced better results that did using the bur from the grinder.

His explanation of why a 'sharper' tool remains sharper longer made sense to me. In essence, he said, suppose we measure sharpness on a scale of 1 - 10, with 10 being perfectly sharp and 1 being too dull to use as a butter knife. Assume also that on our scale, a tool comes off the grinder at a 7 when sharpened with 80 grit and at 9 when sharpened on the Tormek. Finally, assume when a tool reaches 4, it's too dull to use efficiently. The faith promoting rule was that the sharper edge of the Tormek sharpened tool was thinner, and more delicate, than the still sharp, but not as sharp, edge off of an 80 grit wheel. His examination found this not to be true. Sharpened at the same bevel angle, both edges are the same thickness. The difference is the smoothness of the surface. So, since the 'sharp' edge started at a 9 on our sharpness scale, it cuts better (and leaves a better surface) at first. It also produces more linear feet of work, because, starting out at a 9, it takes the edge longer to wear down to a 4. Bottom line: sharper tools both cut better and last longer.

My take aways from this study and from my personal experience: First, if you're using a tool that starts out at a 9 on the scale of sharpness, by the time it gets dulls to a 5 or 6 on the scale, it probably feels dull enough to touch up the edge. Thus, I don't know that 'extra sharp' tools mean fewer trips to the grinder (or pocket hone). I just think the tools cut much better -- giving you better control and leaving a better surface. Second, if you're used to turning with a tool right off the 80 grit wheel, you may have developed techniques that give you a decent cut even though the tool isn't quite as sharp as one sharpened with a finer grit. If you then start using a sharper tool, the techniques you developed may not work as well with the sharper edge -- leading you to incorrectly assume the tool has dulled more quickly. That is, the human element cannot be taken out of the equation. A more aggressive cut angle may allow a 'dull' tool to get a quality surface. that same aggressive cut angle may cause the sharper tool to take too big a bite, making it feel grabby or even dull.

As with most things, YMMV.

[tom lucas]

When I want to remove a lot of wood fast without regard for surface finish, I use a scraper with a burr raised on 80 grit. When I want to be more delicate with a scraper (not often unless it's a negative rake scraper), I'll grind on the 180 stone, then hone off the grinder burr and raise a new one with a carbide rod burnisher. That has been working for me. My thinking is that the roughly ground scraper cuts more like a deep gulletted blade where as the finely honed burr cuts more like a fine toothed blade. One cuts fast but leaves a rough surface and the other cuts slower but leaves a nicer surface. Neither burr lasts very long.

[Reed Gray]

I have heard all the sharpening discussions about coarser cuts better and lasts longer, and finer edge cuts better and lasts longer. While I have no electron microscope or meters to test how much pressure cutting takes, I must say, with the 'feel' I have developed over 20+ years of turning, that just doesn't hold up. Yes, I know the wood can make a big difference in how things cut, but I mostly turn Pacific Madrone which cuts like pear or green dogwood, and Oregon Myrtle/California Bay Laurel, and still 'feel' that the 180 edge lasts longer for roughing cuts, but it won't make as fine of a cut as the 600 grit gouges on some of the softer woods. For finish cuts, especially if the wood is prone to tear out, the 600 grit edge will cut more cleanly than the 180. I always use a fresh edge for finish cuts.

For scraper burrs, that was a curious comment about the grinder burr wearing off/folding over almost instantly. I use scrapers for all of my roughing on bowls. I haven't used M2HSS in some years, probably since Doug Thompson started making tools, and Dave Schweitzer at D Way also. The burr from a 180 grit wheel on those tools will last, easily for one good sized bowl. With the Big Ugly tool, which used tantung for the cutting material, I can turn several sets of bowls without needing to go back to the grinder. There is still a prominent burr left when I go back to the grinder. As to why the guy said his burrs folded over, I can only guess. You can oversharpen any tool. With a grinder, and a coarser wheel, you can get a very big burr, and it will be more prone to folding over. With a 180 grit wheel, I get a burr that is closer to being honed than one that is a raised edge of grinder duff. All you have to do to 'refresh' the cutting burr is hone it off, top side down, and then just lightly kiss the grinding wheel to the bevel.

I used to sharpen my scrapers on the 80 grit wheel, but out of curiosity, I started sharpening them on the 180 grit wheel. There was no noticeable difference in how they cut, so I started using the 180 grit wheel because it ate up less metal.

The only time I burnish burrs onto my scrapers is for shear scraping, and for NRSs. It does produce a longer lasting edge, and it seems to be sharper than the grinder burr. Some times for shear scraping I just go from grinder to wood, and when it gets dull, I burnish that burr down and then back up again. Maybe not as fine of an edge than I would get if I honed the burr down, but it works.

I do remember, some time ago, when the Tormek was still a new idea about how turners commented that the edge they got from it lasted far longer than the edge they got from the standard grinding wheels. Haven't heard that comment in a long long time. I was wondering if it would come up now that Tormek has a 1200 grit diamond wheel for their set up. I know John Lucas switched to them, but haven't heard anything else since then.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

... True you do get a nice fine edge from 600 grit wheels, however this is really only good for a finish cut and won’t hold that edge IMO. ...

My experience is different. I started with the fine Tormek sharpening and followed their recommendation to actually polish the edge. They provided credible logic why the polished edge would last longer. The problem with the Tormek is it takes a while to set up each time.

When I went to 350 grit CBN the honeed edge cut well but didn't seem to last as long. and I saw fine tool scratches on my spindles made from wood like ebony and cocobolo. Going to the polished 600 grit and then the 1200 grit the edges seem to last longer, with aggressive or finish cuts. And unsanded finish cuts on good wood could look like they were sanded to 600 or finer paper (depending on how steady my hands were!)

Looking at the sharpened and honed edges under a microscope show a big difference between grits. I don't use my clinical microscopes with high power for this but a 15/30x stereo microscope.

I also have a Sharp Check tester (https://www.edgeonup.com/eou_new_2016_004.htm) which puts a number on the sharpness of an edge. Lightly stropped edges on skews ground with 600 and 1200 tested far sharper than those on coarser wheels. (Not as easy to test on gouges with curved tips)

But again, MUCH depends on the type of turning and the grind on the tool. I think turning delicate spindles from dense, fine grained wood different from hogging out green wood bowls or finish cuts on dry bowls and platter that will be power sanded.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

...I mostly turn Pacific Madrone which cuts like pear or green dogwood, ...

As, a Madrone expert! A few years Graeme Priddle gave me a supply of kiln dried Pacific Madrone which I had never turned. It is beautiful! Again, I mostly turn small things and always turn dry. I rate dry madrone as of the soft side but with an incredibly fine grain that takes detail and leaves a very smooth surface without sanding, but sands SO smooth. Great for burning and carving. I have my stash guarded by a mean dog and an attack turkey. Wish I could get a truckload!

A few years ago I also got a bunch of highly figured boiled Madrone 3x3 turning stock from Big Monk. I'm still letting it dry but it's about ready to turn. Can't wait to give that a try!
It is coated with paraffin wax which I think causes the redish color. The figure is almost like birds eye or quilted in places. Is that common in Madrone?

451081

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

I think I'm gonna go with the 1hp grinder and 2 mega-square wheels at 180/600 grit.

Two things: any reason not to get the grinder from Ken - is there any need for the other removed components and white wheels it comes with that are removed? And, any reason to get a different profile wheel than the mega squares? So far it seems nobody has made a good case for anything else. Thanks 👍🏼.

PS since I live in Vancouver, WA / Portland area maybe I can get some Madrone eventually - or chop down the small, burly apple tree in my neighbor's front yard 😅

[David Walser]

Allen -- The ONLY reason I didn't buy my grinder from Ken is that I could get it cheaper after shipping from CSUSA. I cannot remember how much I saved, but it was more than $25. And, I have a use for the A/O wheels that Rikon ships the grinder with. I have another, 1/2 hp grinder, that I intend to use for softer materials. Those wheels will work well on that grinder.

[William C Rogers]

John, no doubt that a finish cut from a gouge sharpened on a 600 grit will be better. However IMO not that much. I don’t have a 600 wheel, but do have a leather belt ob a grinder I have used to polish a sharpened gouge. The better the finish on the gouge the better the cut finish. I don’t do that because the advantage is not enough to warrant it. Most of what we do are roughing cuts. For roughing cuts, I feel tools from a 180 grit are just as good as a tool with a polished bevel. A new turner is not going to know how to even make a finished cut or how to sharpen his tools, 80 grit sandpaper is his/her best friend. The OP has decided on the 180 -600 combination, but I still feel the 180 -80 combination will be far more useful to a new turner. I still have no desire to get a grit higher than 180. I think my older 180 is now more like 350 due to wear.

Edit: I will add since I mainly use Thompson and D-Way tools I find it not as necessary to get that super edge with those tool steels.

[Brian Tymchak]

The
This is part of my sharpening setup.
I also have two other bench grinders and a second Tormek not shown here.
451029
I use conventional aluminum oxide wheels for mild steel.

JKJ

John, what are you sharpening on your Tormeks? I've got a Jet slow speed grinder that I don't use and have been thinking about selling but I wonder if I'd be missing an opportunity if I did.

Thanks!

[Reed Gray]

As for Pacific Madrone, it always has a red tint. Some times I have had some with purple in it. The smaller trees tend to be very pale, but the finish brings out some pink. As for drying it, there is a risk of the outside looking very nice, but when you cut into it, the inside can be shattered. I got a 20 years dry burl that was solid on the outside, and shattered on the inside. I would suggest you turn it ASAP. Because of a very high water content, I think only Sycamore approaches it, it generally warps way past the 10% rule. You can stabilize it by boiling. It is fairly hard when dry, but has low 'crush' strength, which means it kind of dents easily and doesn't make good hammer handles. I would think that if glued together, you could get some nice rolling pins out of it. It does cut very smooth and clean, and a NRS works great for cleaning it up, and of course the NRS must have a fresh edge. Smooth even grain, and is great for carving. I have a friend who is a spoon carver and had never tried it. It is now his favorite wood. Not sure about the birds eye pattern, though I have seen some nicely figured pieces.

As for the grinders from Ken, I believe he sells them without the blade guards. I consider them essential for metal dust control.

robo hippy

[David Walser]

Brian -- I cannot speak for John. However, I also have a Tormek and have recently added a CBN wheel to it. I have my bench grinder set up for use with Tormek's jigs. When shaping a tool, I start with the grinder and finish with the Tormek. If all I need do is touch up an edge, I just use the Tormek. The great thing about using the Tormek jigs with my bench grinder is the tool doesn't come out of the jig when moving from grinder to Tormek. This eliminates any potential registration issues with how the tool is held in the jig.

The only exception to this is my scrapers. I don't feel the need to polish the bevel of my scrapers to the same extent I polish the bevels of my other turning tools. For scrapers, I hone off the bur raised at the grinder and then raise a new bur with a burnisher. (To hone of the bur, I use the leather wheel of Tormek, no jig necessary.) With some woods and when cutting end grain, I find I get better results with no bur on my scrapers. That may vary from one blank to the next. So, I experiment. If the bur isn't producing good results, I hone it off and try cutting without the bur. I also use negative rake scrapers on resins, again, without the bur.

[John K Jordan]

John, what are you sharpening on your Tormeks? I've got a Jet slow speed grinder that I don't use and have been thinking about selling but I wonder if I'd be missing an opportunity if I did.

Thanks!

I use the Tormek in that picture with a 1200 grit CBN primarily to sharpen my spindle gouges and occasionally for a skew, although I generally sharpen the skews on the 600 grit 8" CBN wheel on a bench grinder. (I like the slightly more concave bevel shape from the smaller diameter wheels for the skews)

I like the edge the 1200 grit gives me on the spindle gouges.I haven't tried a 1200 grit wheel on the bench grinder, maybe I'd like it. I also use the Tormek when occasionally reworking a damaged carving chisel - with the slow speed it's harder to make a mistake and mess up something.
I also like the leather honing/stropping wheel on the Tormek. I use it on almost every tool I sharpen except for scrapers. I operate the Tormek on a foot switch for quick honing.

I have a 600 grit CBN on the second Tormek and currently have it loaned to a student.

If you are happy with the 8" wheels, yes, sell the slow speed! There are some who like the Tormek style grinders to sharpen knives and hand tool.

JKJ

[David M Peters]

Allen, getting the grinder & wheels directly from Ken is a good choice. I have almost the same setup (1HP/Mega Squares/80/300) and it arrived pre-assembled and tuned up. The wheels run with little to no runout, none that I've ever cared to try measuring.

[Allen Mattsen]

Update: I went ahead and ordered the 1HP Rikon grinder and 180/600 mega square wheels from Ken. Big bullet to bite, but I feel good about the decision being a well informed one thanks to you fine folks. Also, hopefully this purchase ends up the long term solution I expect it will. I won't feel I need to upgrade the grinder, and should be happy with the wheels. Kinda wish I had an 80grit for fast material removal on new or reconditioning tools (such as my chipped Japanese chisel) but I'll make do. Trying my best to set up for the long haul and this is a good start toward sharp tools. 😎👍🏼

[tom lucas]

good choice.

[Brian Tymchak]

Brian -- I cannot speak for John. However, I also have a Tormek and have recently added a CBN wheel to it. I have my bench grinder set up for use with Tormek's jigs. When shaping a tool, I start with the grinder and finish with the Tormek. If all I need do is touch up an edge, I just use the Tormek. The great thing about using the Tormek jigs with my bench grinder is the tool doesn't come out of the jig when moving from grinder to Tormek. This eliminates any potential registration issues with how the tool is held in the jig.

The only exception to this is my scrapers. I don't feel the need to polish the bevel of my scrapers to the same extent I polish the bevels of my other turning tools. For scrapers, I hone off the bur raised at the grinder and then raise a new bur with a burnisher. (To hone of the bur, I use the leather wheel of Tormek, no jig necessary.) With some woods and when cutting end grain, I find I get better results with no bur on my scrapers. That may vary from one blank to the next. So, I experiment. If the bur isn't producing good results, I hone it off and try cutting without the bur. I also use negative rake scrapers on resins, again, without the bur.


I use the Tormek in that picture with a 1200 grit CBN primarily to sharpen my spindle gouges and occasionally for a skew, although I generally sharpen the skews on the 600 grit 8" CBN wheel on a bench grinder. (I like the slightly more concave bevel shape from the smaller diameter wheels for the skews)

I like the edge the 1200 grit gives me on the spindle gouges.I haven't tried a 1200 grit wheel on the bench grinder, maybe I'd like it. I also use the Tormek when occasionally reworking a damaged carving chisel - with the slow speed it's harder to make a mistake and mess up something.
I also like the leather honing/stropping wheel on the Tormek. I use it on almost every tool I sharpen except for scrapers. I operate the Tormek on a foot switch for quick honing.

I have a 600 grit CBN on the second Tormek and currently have it loaned to a student.

If you are happy with the 8" wheels, yes, sell the slow speed! There are some who like the Tormek style grinders to sharpen knives and hand tool.

JKJ

David, John, thanks for your replies. Appreciate the details. Think I'll hold on to the Jet wet sharpener until I fully define my sharpening needs. David, I never considered using the Tormek jigs (I have all the Jet jigs) on a bench grinder. Thanks for that idea. I had considered the wet sharpener too slow for my nature. Maybe I just need to slow down a bit..:)

Thanks!

[David Walser]

Brian -- The Tormek (and your Jet clone) are too slow for my tastes, too. Which is why I got Tormek's bench grinder mount as soon as it came out. I used the bench grinder, with 8" A/O wheels, and Tormek jigs for shaping all my tools. Then, before removing a tool from the jig, I used the Tormek to put sharpen each tool. Once shaped, it took less than a minute to finish sharpening the tool. Then, unless I need to reshape a tool, it never sees the bench grinder again. I thought I had the perfect set up. The bench grinder made shaping fast and the Tormek put a wonderful edge on the tools.

There were only two annoyances: First, the size of the wheels kept changing. If shaping several tools, I might have to readjust things a few times. Tormek's turning tool setter is quick and easy to use, but not having to use it at all is even better. The second is the water used with the Tormek. I love that it eliminates dust and makes sharpening an almost silent process, but I hate the mess. Besides, my shop doesn't have running water nor a sink. So, I have to haul the water from the house and then find a place to dump it when I'm through.

Those are NOT big complaints to deal with. Still, I bought CBN wheels for the grinder, bought a CBN wheel for the Tormek, and then bought the 1hp Rikon to replace the 1/2hp Woodcraft grinder I had been using. Now, I think I have the perfect set up. However, I've noticed that the CBN Tormek wheel cuts a lot faster than it did with its original wheel. Even though it's a much higher grit than the Tormek's native 120 grit, the CBN wheel cuts fast enough that shaping would almost be tolerable. So, maybe I should get a 200 grit CBN wheel for the Tormek and use that for shaping. Then, all I'd need to is swap wheels on the Tormek for sharpening....