SCM Shaper question

[Rick Fisher]

Hello, long time since I posted here. I'm looking at an SCM T105 Shaper, comparing to a Felder 700 or Felder 900. I can't find a whole lot of videos on the SCM or even pictures of anything but a basic model. Anyone have any experience with that SCM Machine ?

[Bobby Robbinett]

Hello, long time since I posted here. I'm looking at an SCM T105 Shaper, comparing to a Felder 700 or Felder 900. I can't find a whole lot of videos on the SCM or even pictures of anything but a basic model. Anyone have any experience with that SCM Machine ?

Are you talking about their new Nova T105 of the old design from the 1980’s and 1990’s? The new Nova T105 is a nice machine. I think that I would be inclined to go with the SCMI over the Felder. That is just my opinion. I just bought a used T130 and have been looking for another one. I haven’t come across many used Felder machines, but they are certainly good too. May I ask what you will be using it for?

[Erik Loza]

I don’t recognize that name for the SCM but my first thought is that you are comparing apples to oranges. Those T-series are big, heavy, and only available with solid cast iron tables. So, they are profiling or sticking machines. The two Felders you mentioned are most commonly sold with sliding tables, to small shops for endgrain work. Both are smaller and lighter than the SCM but that’s by design. Quick-change spindles and available in single-phase, which you can’t get with that Italian machine. I guess we really need to know what you intend to do with this shaper in order to give a more informed opinion.

Erik

[Rick Fisher]

Yes it would be a 2021 Ti105 with the upper control panel.

[Rick Fisher]

Thanks for the reply Eric, you are probably one of the best people to ask !

The SCM Shaper is called a Nova Ti105. It seems like a more flexible machine than the bigger T130. It has a sliding table like the Felder 700 or 900 which appeals to me. The version im comparing as the ready 3 controller, power spindle position including tilt and Power fence.

My thinking is this shaper will be a jack of all trades. The Felder 700 or 900 might be comparable ?

[Erik Loza]

Hi Rick. I took a look at that machine on the SCM site. Looks nice. No idea the cost but I would say probably most apples-to-apples would be the Felder F700Z. I think either one of them would suit you fine for a one person all-around shaper. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Joe Jensen]

Erik, since you know both companies well, is SCM making a conscious choice to not put much info on the website or are they just behind? It's super frustrating to be forced to work with a sales person. Most people are working 8-12 hours a day. Either as a cabinet business owner or in some other profession. People are also impatient. Leaving a voice mail for a sales person to call back when they happen to be available operates on the assumption that the customer is just sitting around waiting for a call. Years ago I ended up with Felder because of the sales person and the Felder rep (Carl) was super responsive on email and we eventually had several calls. The SCM rep (not you) only traded voice mails and after a few weeks I just gave up on SCM.

In the tech industry we learned many years ago that serving customers the way they want to be served is the way to win. Today that means giving them access to data when and where they want.

[Jim Becker]

Joe, I think responsiveness is on the specific sales resource, no matter what the company. This is something I'm pretty sensitive about because of all those years I worked in sales roles before retiring from full time work three years ago. Erik (Felder) is one of the good ones. So is Sam Blasco (SCM). I honestly don't find either company's web site to be "overly helpful" in many respects! LOL

[David Kumm]

Although the 3.5" under the nut seems small, I think the SCM machine is probably more like the 900 in build. Hard to compare as the designs are much different on the spindle and base. The 230 fence is a little small but the sliding table and accessories make the 900 a very versatile machine. Compare the weight, quill, and how the tilt and rise and fall are designed. Are they hung from the top or from the base. Dave

[Joe Jensen]

Joe, I think responsiveness is on the specific sales resource, no matter what the company. This is something I'm pretty sensitive about because of all those years I worked in sales roles before retiring from full time work three years ago. Erik (Felder) is one of the good ones. So is Sam Blasco (SCM). I honestly don't find either company's web site to be "overly helpful" in many respects! LOL

I (https://gph.is/g/EBOxMXD) tried to insert an applause GIF.

Well said

[Jared Sankovich]

Although the 3.5" under the nut seems small, I think the SCM machine is probably more like the 900 in build. Hard to compare as the designs are much different on the spindle and base. The 230 fence is a little small but the sliding table and accessories make the 900 a very versatile machine. Compare the weight, quill, and how the tilt and rise and fall are designed. Are they hung from the top or from the base. Dave

Unless I was looking at the wrong spec sheet its 5"/127mm under the nut with no change in spindle length for the 40/50mm spindles and 240/300mm max diameter tooling. Based just on that slightly lighter build than the t110.

[Erik Loza]

Erik, since you know both companies well...

Joe, I think both companies face (and always have) the same struggle: Extremely small pool of knowledgeable sales reps and machinery that maybe 1 in 10 customers who inquire, can actually afford. I think we could all rattle off a list of companies with awkward websites. That is compounded when these sites are administrated from Europe, where the vast majority of sales are through the dealer network rather than 1:1 with a personalized sales rep, like here in the US. I can only speak for myself: When I was with SCM, if you were my customer, you had my cell phone number. Now that I am with Felder, if you are in my sales territory, you have my cell phone number. I assume that same is true for Sam. Plenty of good options from both companies. Customers should talk to both and decide for themselves.

Erik

[David Kumm]

Unless I was looking at the wrong spec sheet its 5"/127mm under the nut with no change in spindle length for the 40/50mm spindles and 240/300mm max diameter tooling. Based just on that slightly lighter build than the t110.

I was looking at the specs on the Elite tool website. They could be in error. Dave

[Joe Jensen]

I hear you. If the website was competitive with the best then sales people would probably get a lot few tire kickers :)


Joe, I think both companies face (and always have) the same struggle: Extremely small pool of knowledgeable sales reps and machinery that maybe 1 in 10 customers who inquire, can actually afford. I think we could all rattle off a list of companies with awkward websites. That is compounded when these sites are administrated from Europe, where the vast majority of sales are through the dealer network rather than 1:1 with a personalized sales rep, like here in the US. I can only speak for myself: When I was with SCM, if you were my customer, you had my cell phone number. Now that I am with Felder, if you are in my sales territory, you have my cell phone number. I assume that same is true for Sam. Plenty of good options from both companies. Customers should talk to both and decide for themselves.

Erik

[Frank Drackman]

The woodworking machinery websites remind me of the way real estate sales companies worked a while ago. With the exception of open houses advertised in the Sunday paper, you had to contact an agent to get the price of the listing.

Times have changed. A quick way to get rid of those 9 out of ten potential customers that can't afford the product is to allow them to see list prices before they contact the sales office.

[Erik Loza]

...A quick way to get rid of those 9 out of ten potential customers that can't afford the product is to allow them to see list prices before they contact the sales office.

Frank, I agree with you. It is challenging for companies that offer as broad a range of products, to as broad a range of clients, as SCM Group and we do. In the same day, I can talk to someone who can barely scrape together enough for a jointer/planer and then, someone who needs a big edgebander and a nesting router. Obviously, you would not want to put pricing on the website for as something like a 5-axis router. However, numerically speaking, we sell more Hammer A3's than any other machine and I agree that we need to make it easy for folks to find that info. BTW, folks can easily see the price of our most popular "budget" machines (Hammers) right in the E-shop. Also, and I'm not sure how other Felder reps handle this but I'll be glad to tell you tell you right up front, "Such-and-such machine will cost you about this many $$$". There aren't enough hours in the day for me to be playing games with folks on pricing, so it actually is helpful to know whether or not you can afford it before we spend a lot of time going back and forth. At least that's how I do things.

Erik

[Rick Fisher]

I just wanted to say that in my case both of the sales reps for Felder and SCM in my area have been good to talk too I just ordered a new Jointer, sent the check a week ago. It was between the Martin, Felder Plan 51 and the SCM invincible. I chose the SCM. Im not stuck on any brand, im basically comparing features and price. I saw all the machines at the AWFS.

The biggest frustration for me with the websites is not having list prices for the options. To be able to configure and know that the extra spindle is approx 500 dollars and not 1000 dollars, and things like that.

The reason the Nova 105 is appealing over the Felder 700 is the Ready 3 controller. I have that level of control on a couple machines and like it. On the other hand there isn't much info online on how user friendly that controller is.

In both cases, you don't hear the downsides from the sales reps. The quirky spindle locks and things like that.

[Erik Loza]

I hear you. If the website was competitive with the best then sales people would probably get a lot few tire kickers :)

I'm a worse tire kicker than anybody. I needed a new LED flashlight for a specific task and must have done the add-to-cart thing, then changed my mind, a dozen times before I actually bought it. We're talking about <$200 and I just needed to see it on pop up sale in order to pull the trigger.

Erik

[Erik Loza]

I just wanted to say that in my case both of the sales reps for Felder and SCM in my area have been good to talk too I just ordered a new Jointer, sent the check a week ago. It was between the Martin, Felder Plan 51 and the SCM invincible. I chose the SCM. Im not stuck on any brand, im basically comparing features and price. I saw all the machines at the AWFS.

That's the way to do it. I wish everyone could see these machines in person. It's the best way to actually see what you're getting. I was in the booth at the last Vegas show. You should say hello if you're going to another big show (not sure what/if is up with AWFS this year?). It's funny to watch the gang of FOG guys sneaking around Martin's booth, SCM's booth, our booth. John R. has always been friendly with me but I saw the FOG Gang crawling under the hood of one of our machines, started to go over to say hello, and they all ran off like they'd been cutting class and I was the hall monitor, LOL. :D

Erik

[Warren Lake]

in the auto world they just buy a competitors car and take it apart.

[Rick Fisher]

I know I'm bringing up an old thread but I did end up ordering that SCM T105 Shaper about a year ago. It took all this time to show up. Its pretty normal today for things like this to take a long time, I was patient but the machine arrived in good shape and I've been putting it together.

There is very little information on this machine online, so I will add some things here. I ordered it so long ago that I've actually forgotten a lot about it. I'm just reading the owners manual for the first time. It has automated controls for the rise/ fall, tilt and fence movement like a larger shaper, and it has a swing away fence. Anodized aluminum sliding table like a Felder Shaper.

It has a Pneumatic Air connection and regulator, for the life of me I can't figure out why. I've not run it yet. The parts manual shows a pneumatic cylinder .. I guess it will reveal itself.

SCM does a good job of packaging their equipment. A solid crate made of OSB. It arrived safe. I bought a jointer from SCM and it was also packaged in a solid OSB crate.

It has a 3 phase connection for a power feeder built in, my power feeder is single phase, but still a nice touch. The build quality seems pretty decent. Not Martin fit and finish, but still more than acceptable. Martin was double the money for the T-12.

At first look I would say this is a very nice artisan style shop machine. Not a T-130 build quality or mass, not a machine for really heavy production work, but for a guy like me it seems very nice and well featured. Its got an 8hp Motor so its capable enough. I will attempt to post some pictures if I can.

[Warren Lake]

They had small panels on the front of the 130's, some them had a stop start for a feeder. Ive seen them where guys just wire them into the start switch on the machine. If so id want it to the live side to be able to run the feeder without the machine running. Think the ones wired with a stop start switch have overload protection inside.

[Jeff Bartley]

That's the way to do it. I wish everyone could see these machines in person. It's the best way to actually see what you're getting. I was in the booth at the last Vegas show. You should say hello if you're going to another big show (not sure what/if is up with AWFS this year?). It's funny to watch the gang of FOG guys sneaking around Martin's booth, SCM's booth, our booth. John R. has always been friendly with me but I saw the FOG Gang crawling under the hood of one of our machines, started to go over to say hello, and they all ran off like they'd been cutting class and I was the hall monitor, LOL. :D

Erik

Who are the FOG guys? They sound mysterious!

Rick, congrats on the shaper! If you’re bored and want to snap pics of it (and your jointer) please do.

[Jared Sankovich]

I know I'm bringing up an old thread but I did end up ordering that SCM T105 Shaper about a year ago. It took all this time to show up. Its pretty normal today for things like this to take a long time, I was patient but the machine arrived in good shape and I've been putting it together.

There is very little information on this machine online, so I will add some things here. I ordered it so long ago that I've actually forgotten a lot about it. I'm just reading the owners manual for the first time. It has automated controls for the rise/ fall, tilt and fence movement like a larger shaper, and it has a swing away fence. Anodized aluminum sliding table like a Felder Shaper.

It has a Pneumatic Air connection and regulator, for the life of me I can't figure out why. I've not run it yet. The parts manual shows a pneumatic cylinder .. I guess it will reveal itself.

SCM does a good job of packaging their equipment. A solid crate made of OSB. It arrived safe. I bought a jointer from SCM and it was also packaged in a solid OSB crate.

It has a 3 phase connection for a power feeder built in, my power feeder is single phase, but still a nice touch. The build quality seems pretty decent. Not Martin fit and finish, but still more than acceptable. Martin was double the money for the T-12.

At first look I would say this is a very nice artisan style shop machine. Not a T-130 build quality or mass, not a machine for really heavy production work, but for a guy like me it seems very nice and well featured. Its got an 8hp Motor so its capable enough. I will attempt to post some pictures if I can.

Pneumatic spindle lock maybe?

[Dave Roock]

Who are the FOG guys? They sound mysterious!

Rick, congrats on the shaper! If you’re bored and want to snap pics of it (and your jointer) please do.


FOG = Festool Owners Group ? : > )

[Mel Fulks]

I don’t like the SCMI shapers. The couple I used in employments had so little table overhang, could have been result of engineer’s hangover .
Seems they thought you might hurt yourself if you were able to clamp on a good shop made fence. They had a lot of small pieces of stuff
that that no one could figure out what they were for. I see them as clunky.

[Albert Lee]

I know I'm bringing up an old thread but I did end up ordering that SCM T105 Shaper about a year ago. It took all this time to show up. Its pretty normal today for things like this to take a long time, I was patient but the machine arrived in good shape and I've been putting it together.

There is very little information on this machine online, so I will add some things here. I ordered it so long ago that I've actually forgotten a lot about it. I'm just reading the owners manual for the first time. It has automated controls for the rise/ fall, tilt and fence movement like a larger shaper, and it has a swing away fence. Anodized aluminum sliding table like a Felder Shaper.

It has a Pneumatic Air connection and regulator, for the life of me I can't figure out why. I've not run it yet. The parts manual shows a pneumatic cylinder .. I guess it will reveal itself.

SCM does a good job of packaging their equipment. A solid crate made of OSB. It arrived safe. I bought a jointer from SCM and it was also packaged in a solid OSB crate.

It has a 3 phase connection for a power feeder built in, my power feeder is single phase, but still a nice touch. The build quality seems pretty decent. Not Martin fit and finish, but still more than acceptable. Martin was double the money for the T-12.

At first look I would say this is a very nice artisan style shop machine. Not a T-130 build quality or mass, not a machine for really heavy production work, but for a guy like me it seems very nice and well featured. Its got an 8hp Motor so its capable enough. I will attempt to post some pictures if I can.

Rick I have a Ti145EP, the pneumatic part is to activate the automatic movement of the fences/spindle movement, if you have no air, you can’t move them.

the spindle lock T lock accessories requrie external pneumatic fitting.

I have posted a 8 minutes video clip on YouTube of me going through TI145EP
https://youtu.be/j00aPTETMYQ

[Rick Fisher]

Albert, thank you .. the pneumatic lines actually run up to the hood and fence. Your comments make perfect sense. Thank you

The spindle on mine is not up to what a T-145 would have, its old school. The fence and tilt are however automated so that makes perfect sense.

[Rick Fisher]

Albert if you have a moment, or anyone that may know.

The shaper has automated rise/fall of the spindle. Factory set seems to be all the way down at 4.72" .. all the way up is 0 .. It seems backward to me. The manual is pretty good but it seems to be translated Italian so I'm scratching my head a bit..

Movement is nice and smooth, If 0.00 at the highest the spindle can go makes sense, I don't quite get it .. I'm feeling like I'm missing something. Is it backwards, needing to be calibrated, or am I ? :)

[Albert Lee]

Albert if you have a moment, or anyone that may know.

The shaper has automated rise/fall of the spindle. Factory set seems to be all the way down at 4.72" .. all the way up is 0 .. It seems backward to me. The manual is pretty good but it seems to be translated Italian so I'm scratching my head a bit..

Movement is nice and smooth, If 0.00 at the highest the spindle can go makes sense, I don't quite get it .. I'm feeling like I'm missing something. Is it backwards, needing to be calibrated, or am I ? :)

Rick, I think you can reset the values to whatever you like, say all the way down at 0. and then positive value as you go up， or the other way round...

Mine comes in with 0 value somewhere mid shaft and then its +25mm is the upper limit and -45mm is the lower limit. I only have 70mm of travel on my TI145, the available shaft above table is 140mm/5.5inch, there are limiter in place to limit the travel of the spindle.. it seems your spindle can travel 4.72 inch = 120mm?

[Rick Fisher]

That makes sense Albert. I only think it moves 4.72" because that's what the LED reads. It travels from 4.72 to 0 and back again as it goes up and down. I will measure it ..

I will figure out the calibration of the LED and see what works best for me.

[Rick Fisher]

The owners manual for this machine is actually pretty good. The add-on Manual for the "Ready 3" controller is extremely lacking. It has some positive points, for instance they tell you what the error codes mean, Martin manuals don't, you have to call them and get a call back. As an evening woodworker, I've never liked that.

If anyone has a Ready 3 controller on an SCM machine, and is willing to answer some questions I would really appreciate it. I have put a service ticket in with SCM. See what happens.

Having said that, I like the machine. I will figure out how to post pictures and post some.

[Rod Sheridan]

FOG = Festool Owners Group ? : > )

Or, Felder Owners Group