Shaper Cutters Sets for Entry Doors

[derek labian]

I'm trying to figure out why it seems router cutter sets for 1 3/4" entry doors make 1/2" tenons (for example: https://freudtools.com/products/99-267) but all the cutter sets I've looked at appear to cut 1/4" tenons (for example: https://freudtools.com/products/EC-274). This makes no sense to me and I would expect these cutter sets to make similar cuts.

[derek labian]

Here is an example of a cutter: while the pics don't specify, all the cutter sets I've found seem to have a 1/4" thick dado/tenon or tongue/groove.

450851

[Mel Fulks]

The larger stub tenon is often used for thick panels . Sometimes two panels back to back as they are a little easier to run
that way.
The smaller stub tenon is often used for raised panels that are 3/4" thick or for flat 1/4 inch plywood.

[derek labian]

The larger stub tenon is often used for thick panels . Sometimes two panels back to back as they are a little easier to run
that way.
The smaller stub tenon is often used for raised panels that are 3/4" thick or for flat 1/4 inch plywood.

I could add in another cutter and widen that to 1/2", but that would change the profile of the cut so that the molding would be partially excluded from the cut? For example, in the picture above, if the tenon is 1/4" and the rail is 1 3/4, each of the moldings is 3/4". If I make the tenon thickness 1/2", each of the moldings will loose 1/8" and only be 5/8ths, changing the profile? (excuse me if I got any of those numbers wrong)

[Jared Sankovich]

Here is an example of a cutter: while the pics don't specify, all the cutter sets I've found seem to have a 1/4" thick dado/tenon or tongue/groove.

450851

The inexpensive import sets tend to have 1/4" grooves.

Look at freeborn passage door cutters

[derek labian]

The inexpensive import sets tend to have 1/4" grooves.

Look at freeborn passage door cutters

Im looking for an entry door, but I understand what you mean. You consider Freud an inexpensive import? I also don't understand the logic, these cutters are cutting the same amount of wood regardless of the size of the groove. What does the size have to do with it being inexpensive? For example, buying a 1/2" groove cutter is cheap, the cost is in the 4 molders.

I do see the Freeborn cutters have 1/2" grooves though. It appears the freeborn cutters just cut smaller molding, this you can increase the center cutter by 1/4" without truncating the profile. You still end up with a different profile though. (Freeborn PT-11-040)

[derek labian]

It looks like the solution here is buy Passage door cutters and add an extra cutter. That gives you the right profile without truncating the molding.

[David Kumm]

I run Freeborn sets that have a 1/4" for 1 3/8 doors and 1/2" for 1 3/4. I prefer the 1/2 as the purpose of the panels is to help hold the rails and stiles straight and give some strength to the assembly.Dave

[Paul Haus]

Has the OP looked at the Grizzly shaper cutter sets? You can get alternate cutters to use with the sets to cut 5mm or 1/2" tenons and slots vs. the default 1/4" . I've got sets from Magnate and Grizzly, both work well. Grizzly has sets for 1 3/8" and 1 3/4" doors, they come with default 1/4" cutters and spacers for 1/4" tenons. Just some thoughts.

[David Sochar]

Router bits are a tough way to make a passage door. The makers of the bits seem to have never tried their bits. Most sets will not allow the formation of a real tenon - dowels must be used. A good cope bit - router or shaper - can help final size your tenons by just kissing the underside to get the final fit just right.

Commercially available shaper tooling, surprisingly, is not much better. It still excludes the use of tenons, apparently thinking the cope and stick is enough to make things stay together.

I learned tenons are to be 1/3 the thickness of the rail. That would be about 9/16" (.58333") for 1-3/4"doors. However, in most of the hundreds of doors I have built, I used 1/2" tenons. Nothing has fallen apart yet. We use 3/4"tenons for the 2-1/4"thick doors, and that works out just right.

[Mel Fulks]

I agree the router sets are not the best way to make a passage door. But you can strengthen them by adding 1/2 inch
diameter dowels . I've driven them through home made thick steel plate that has champherd holes. The dowels don't
lose any wood ...they are just squeezed together, then swell up. At least 2 dowels for each rail end. Some don't like dowels ,but the
method I describe is much better than the commonly sold big box stuff,often showing open joints in the store....and they
sell a bunch of them.

[David Zaret]

i have the freeborn sets, but lately run the Zuani cutters from rangate. they aren't cheap, but they make absolutely wonderful joints. something to consider if you're buying new.

[derek labian]

Has the OP looked at the Grizzly shaper cutter sets? You can get alternate cutters to use with the sets to cut 5mm or 1/2" tenons and slots vs. the default 1/4" . I've got sets from Magnate and Grizzly, both work well. Grizzly has sets for 1 3/8" and 1 3/4" doors, they come with default 1/4" cutters and spacers for 1/4" tenons. Just some thoughts.

Thank you for your suggestion.

I had been looking at these yes, and I saw the alternate cutters. If the molding profile is designed for 1 3/4, and you put in a 1/2 cutter, the profile will change, which was the point of the thread. Thats why I was thought could buy the passage set, and swap that out for a 1/2 cutter, giving you a 1 3/4 overall size?

Since you have these cutters, am I crazy? Can I just buy the 1 3/4 entry cutter set and swap out a 1/4" for a 1/2" cutter?

[Jared Sankovich]

Thank you for your suggestion.

I had been looking at these yes, and I saw the alternate cutters. If the molding profile is designed for 1 3/4, and you put in a 1/2 cutter, the profile will change, which was the point of the thread. Thats why I was thought could buy the passage set, and swap that out for a 1/2 cutter, giving you a 1 3/4 overall size?

Since you have these cutters, am I crazy? Can I just buy the 1 3/4 entry cutter set and swap out a 1/4" for a 1/2" cutter?

The profile gets a extra 1/16 of flat section on the freeborn and similar sets on the 1.75 doors with a .5 groove.

If you don't want the 1/16 extra on the straight section run a 5/8" groove. Or just run different profiles for interior and exterior doors with corrugated knives.

[Paul Haus]

Thank you for your suggestion.

I had been looking at these yes, and I saw the alternate cutters. If the molding profile is designed for 1 3/4, and you put in a 1/2 cutter, the profile will change, which was the point of the thread. Thats why I was thought could buy the passage set, and swap that out for a 1/2 cutter, giving you a 1 3/4 overall size?

Since you have these cutters, am I crazy? Can I just buy the 1 3/4 entry cutter set and swap out a 1/4" for a 1/2" cutter?
If you swap out the 1/4" for 1/2", you increase the total cutter width by 1/4" so just add 1/4" to the package width. I have tried that with the Grizzly and the Magnate sets, they did work. I have not tried it with any other brands of cutter sets.

[derek labian]

Thank you Paul and Jared.

[Warren Lake]

looked at a you tube for Freeborn. I saw them run parts, the fit wasnt great but maybe just the guy. More important I saw no way that that door is fastened. There is no mortise and tennon there were no dowels or other gizmo tool. The old guys i knew refused to use cope and stick even on kitchen doors in fact one told me it wont work. When I told one thats what people are using he said okay maybe on a small door but not an interior or entry door. Not long after he did his kitchen in Hickory and doors and face frames were all mortise and tennon. They grew up different ways of mortise and tennon, one told me heads on the machines he ran were 10 or 11 inches. They always had a mortise and tennon or in industry later sometimes doweled. Ive seen double rows of dowelling on custom high end door companies, think Joe told me its done with CNC.


The first you tube leaves you with the impression that that is all you do without showing it needs to be dowelled or some other method. I watched an infinity tools after that and at least they had tooling and a flat top router bit that lets you make a tennon and you mortise the style.

[Peter Kelly]

Unless you're making lots of exterior doors, it seems like it'd be simpler to just assemble your door frames with mortise & tenon or Dominoes, apply quarter round to one side of the openings, add panels, apply quarter round to trap everything in place. Gluing up a 36" x 80" x 1 3/4" exterior door for the first time isn't easy, assembling without the panels in is a lot less stressful, especially for a first timer.

https://i.imgur.com/KvdKSrk.png

I'd also avoid router bit sets for this. Clean copes will be difficult at best with hardwood.

[John TenEyck]

I'm with Peter. If you don't make a lot of doors it's hard to justify the cost of a shaper set. I don't even own a shaper anymore. And moving a heavy lower rail over a router table is not the easiest thing to manage. I recently built a new front door for my own house. I created a stub tenon on the stiles by cutting rabbets and then made a matching mortise on the ends of the rails. Think of that as your cope and stick.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cohM6t4aHqTzIjhePsKmsZ0dvIvGJUbkslHvUSSkrkqyFsjvQ mH4bpmgAD6r9HrnwORIeifbD8IaFurSEc555jXzwq9oPMxOXg4 bSTpzP3BCEfReLmVfJbo9AWWxC1hJOX18VhI9jg-m41g1RIF3EBbg=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

This is a different door, but I used 5/8" loose tenons in the stile/rail joints, and 1/2" ones in the others. Note, this door was made with the stub tenon on the ends of the rails instead of the stiles, because of the way I was mounting the integral panels. I will never do that again as there is no way to remove/replace them, and that's the same situation with the cope/stick joinery. To replace a cracked panel you have to route out the sticking on one side. Far better to use moldings IMO, at least on one side.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3es7Le1UPEasrIHcn5Q9gpFQXU7DW3dCE47Srj1mdNQEgzBgk7 xP5dgNsudbBc5h5D5ZJEVY_F8LwbKiwkgilB128rsmgYcsSuXk uI-hkdYX7jghhgeFP5bkB7gcgUIKecqPzp4dlCt6aUGi5UlD3G8RQ =w835-h626-no?authuser=0

Anyway, back to my front door, I used applied moldings on both sides to capture the wood and glass panels.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dGSFPTjQyPkZx7TtO2-gzsEnbNdlln8eMfInUp3lyRPMh4I89WzSlcSnFtBdT_q5ECO8r RHSYCf8w8UwpI2NcuDOlGCpPplWH-I06xS34w_Ie_9eUvTDVzxMud0MbTsuaOI_LKBXuFfE5lgYX5q4 jqqQ=w835-h626-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f5s6_truzzI7X8hP4v0TfHAgOPGbzVtChJXouoQ6uCpErWf0m aukFb1-Zj_rJrxzkyYZAU4sPGhv0r05Wo_VMsz4oj-54Cuyj_d-72Ekdxu9SWhksw38fzlak6JpV4TnZdUF4CEhcNBQpvdXiYCRiX aQ=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

You can make doors this way with no tooling. Rather than being a limitation it allows almost infinite design freedom. I think the applied moldings add an architectural element beyond what's possible with cope and stick. And if any of the panels need to be replaced or even refinished, it's not a hard job to remove the molding to do so.

John

[mreza Salav]

You can use router bits to build entry/passage doors. The following router bit set allows to build 2.25" thick doors with 1" panel groove and whatever length tenon you want. You can adjust the spacers to get thinner panel grooves:

https://www.freudtools.com/products/99-277

This is what I used to build the following door for our house

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