New Turner - Seeking Your Advice/Opinion

[BRIAN JACKSON]

Thank you for having me on your site/forum. Have always wanted a lathe and was fortunate to pick one up over Christmas this year. Have a 1978 Rockwell-Delta 46-111. Rewound the 1/2HP motor and put new switch on it. Four speeds based on adjusting belt. Have made a few cups and bowls and am hooked. I though golf was an expensive hobby! HA! Thing is huge and I haven't turned anything longer than 14 inches yet.

Originally turned my basics with the cheapest set of Harbor Freight tools, which did well until it was time to sharpen. Really don't know what I'm doing and ordered a carbide chisel - seems to be easier, but finishing is not as smooth. Tool is made by WEN

Have been told by others who I've picked up ideas from that a "Chuck" would do better than the faceplate I use, and there wouldn't be any holes on the bottom, etc. Ok....so many brands, and price is an issue right now...guessing the chuck of choice is the NOVA, but for that much $$ I'd expect to at least get the adapter to fit my 1x8 spindle - not have to pay extra. Anyone have any experience or know anyone who has used the WEN chuck? Amazon has mixed reviews. Price point is about half of Nova and no adapter needed. Any other brand to consider? Main focus will be bowls, cups, plates, maybe a pen or related kit at some point.

Look forward to reading the posts and getting tips for my new hobby. Thanks for the help!

O-LineCoach1
Sumter, SC

[tom lucas]

Did you look at Hurricane chucks? Jaws are interchangeable with Nova, and I think they are a bit cheaper. Also, the $20 adapter isn't such a big deal when you consider everything else you have spend for with this hobby. Many times the Novas will go on sale with the adapter, if you can wait it out. I went cheap on my first chuck and got the Penn State Barracuda. I still have it and it works, but I should have just bitten the bullet and paid for a quality chuck to start with. The holding power of the cuda isn't that great. It seems to loosen over time. Well now, a few years down the road and I've added a Vicmarc vm120, Nova Titan, and 2 SN2's. All of these are great chucks. Get the SN2 with adapter and you'll have it forever. Upgrade your lathe later and just get a new adapter.

As for do you need a chuck? Not really. There is a lot you can do without one using faceplates, glue blocks, and turner's tape. But they do open up more options and conveniences for you. Maybe consider a Beall tap, which lets you make your own faceplates out of wood.

[BRIAN JACKSON]

Thank you - great advice!

[David Walser]

Brian -- Welcome to the vortex! With regard to your chuck question: You don't need a chuck. Chucks are handy to have and can save time, but you don't need one. I strongly believe most newbies would be well served learning how to use a faceplate before buying their first chuck. (I have several chucks and like them. I still wish I'd learned to use a faceplate before buying my first chuck.) The two advantages of a chuck are speed and flexibility. I cannot think of a single thing you can turn with a chuck that you cannot turn just as well, if not better, with a faceplate. You can buy several faceplates for the price of one chuck.

With regard to your idea that using a chuck will eliminate the need for screw holes in the bottom of your piece: Use a glue block. That is, attach a sacrificial block of wood to your faceplate (with screws, double sided tape, or hot melt glue), turn the block round, face it off, and then glue your project blank to the glue block. Done properly, this will be a stronger hold, and introduce less vibration, then you can get with a chuck. When you're through turning your piece, simply part off the item from the glue block. No screw holes!

With regard to sharpening, I assume you have a grinder. If so, your next step is to get a sharpening jig. Most turners use the Wolverine sharpening system from Oneway. Personally, I slightly prefer Woodcut's Tru-Grind sharpening system. It's base takes up less room than Oneway's and the Woodcut cost less when I bought mine. I also believe it is more accurate than the Wolverine. Woodcut is out of New Zealand and their products can be hard to find in the USA. However, you can get the Tru-Grind system on Amazon or from Woodworker's Emporium in Las Vegas.

[BRIAN JACKSON]

Thank you too David. Still trying to figure the sacrificial glue block thing out. Worried that when I part the wood off, my finished piece will go flying and can't get that out of my head. Thanks though!

[David Walser]

Brian -- When you part off your piece, stop before you complete the cut. Then, with the lathe off, finish the cut with a handsaw. I use a cheap flush cut saw.

HTH

[John K Jordan]

Brian -- When you part off your piece, stop before you complete the cut. Then, with the lathe off, finish the cut with a handsaw. I use a cheap flush cut saw.

HTH

There's another reason to saw off the last little bit, even on small spindles with no danger of taking off part of your face: If the last bit breaks it can pull fibers out of the end of the piece and create a defect that might be difficult to remove. I always saw through the last bit and then remove, sand, and finish the end by hand.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

Hello Brian. welcome to the forum!

My advice has more to do with learning than equipment. Yes, I'm one of those who consider a chuck (or more) invaluable for turning and recommend getting one, any one, soon. I went with Novas and have never been sorry (I have 20 Nova/Teknatool chucks now which might sound excessive but I have my reasons.) However, a more expensive or cheaper chuck will also do.

Some things you can do to ramp up. Some involve other people.

- If you join a turning club you will find lots of people ready to help. It's more difficult to connect during this viral pandemic but many clubs that are not meeting in person have virtual meetings and live or recorded demos. Many members with experience are willing to give advice by phone. I've also had some people come to my shop for wood and instruction and with careful distancing and respirators we functioned safely.

- When all the virus horror is over I guaranteed it will be incredibly valuable to get some one-on-one instruction with an experienced turner. There are others like me willing to donate time to teach both the basics and advanced techniques of turning. Some places are currently offering live turning classes - perhaps check with your local Woodcraft or other woodworking-related store depending on your location.

- There are many useful videos on YouTube, which while not as good as face time time with a mentor, will still help you to advance. The biggest problem is there are many very bad turning videos on YouTube and and without experience it's hard to know which are bad. One way is to go through the list of videos on the AAW (American Association of Woodturners). All there are vetted for safety and quality of instruction. This will require joining.

- Join the AAW. In addition to the videos they have many resources for the beginner. There is a series of fundamentals documents that have good instruction. I think they still have an offer for a free or reduced introductory rate.

- Invest in a few books. Books contain SO much more information than a video. A video that had all the info in a typical book would be many hours, maybe days long. Authors often offer several ways to do something. They review all the tools and how to use them. Some have very good lessons in their books. I learned most of my turning about 20 years ago with two books:
-- "Fundamentals of Woodturning" by Mike Darlow (https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Woodturning-Publishing-Ultimate-Exercises/dp/1565233557)
-- "Turning wood" by Richard Raffan (https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Wood-Richard-Raffan/dp/156158956X

- Learn to use "conventional" tools, including the skew chisel and bowl and spindle gouges. As you noticed, most carbide tools won't give as good a surface as conventional tools. But as you also mentioned, conventional tools are useless unless they are sharp.

- Learn to sharpen! Having a sharpening mentor will help a lot! I've had several turners from our club come to my shop just to learn to sharpen. Sharpening any is possible free-hand but far easier with a setup for lathe tools. Needed: bench grinder, conventional wheels are fine, at least for starting. Useful: a setup like the Oneway Wolverine plus their Varigrind jig attachment for turning gouges.

- To work before you learn to sharpen, I would recommend buying one carbide tool, one of the Hunter Tools. These have a much different type of cutter than the typical carbide and can be used as either an excellent scraper or as a gouge. My personal favorite is the small Hunter Hercules. I often use it instead of a bowl gouge. It's capable, with some practice, of making some glass-like finish cuts in good wood.

- One more thing I think is very important for someone who wants to become an expert some day: start by turning spindles instead of bowls! Numerous experts say the same thing, some I've heard say so personally - Richard Raffan, Jimmy Clewes, Frank Penta, others in books: Keith Rowley, Mike Darlow. Even if you have no interest in turning spindles in the long run it will teach you the fine tool control needed to turn anything, including big and fancy bowls and platter. (And you might just find that turning spindles and other small things can be quite rewarding - if you want more about that just ask. :)) Rowley even says that if you learn to turn bowls first you may never be able to turn spindles. I know some very good turners who can turn anything (and well) - who they started with spindle turning. BTW, a chuck can also be quite useful for turning spindles, boxes, goblets, ring keepers, bud vases and more.

- Practice, practices, practice and ask lots of questions. There are a bunch of great woodturners here who are happy to help. There are lots of woodturning in SC too, just harder to visit in person for now. Mount a piece of wood and turn it to almost nothing without even trying to make a finished piece. One effective technique is to make every cut a practice cut. Repeat. I recommend using dry wood but whatever you can get is fine, even branches.

- ALWAYS wear protection from breathing dust and protection for your head when turning bigger things. I know I of one spectacular long-time turner who had to quit turning and get rid of everything because he slowly became highly allergic to wood dust. I use a powerful dust collector which helps a little on the the lathe, an industrial respirator when making sawdust, and use techniques which eliminate most of the sanding that makes clouds of dust.

That's all I can think of right now. And I need to go down to the barn and put the peacocks back in their cages.

JKJ




Thank you for having me on your site/forum. Have always wanted a lathe and was fortunate to pick one up over Christmas this year. Have a 1978 Rockwell-Delta 46-111. Rewound the 1/2HP motor and put new switch on it. Four speeds based on adjusting belt. Have made a few cups and bowls and am hooked. I though golf was a expensive hobby! HA! Thing is huge and I haven't turned anything longer than 14 inches yet.

Originally turned my basics with the cheapest set of Harbor Freight tools, which did well until it was time to sharpen. Really don't know what I'm doing and ordered a carbide chisel - seems to be easier, but finishing is not as smooth. Tool is made by WEN

Have been told by others who I've picked up ideas from that a "Chuck" would do better than the faceplate I use, and there wouldn't be any holes on the bottom, etc. Ok....so many brands, and price is an issue right now...guessing the chuck of choice is the NOVA, but for that much $$ I'd expect to at least get the adapter to fit my 1x8 spindle - not have to pay extra. Anyone have any experience or know anyone who has used the WEN chuck? Amazon has mixed reviews. Price point is about half of Nova and no adapter needed. Any other brand to consider? Main focus will be bowls, cups, plates, maybe a pen or related kit at some point.

Look forward to reading the posts and getting tips for my new hobby. Thanks for the help!

O-LineCoach1
Sumter, SC

[William C Rogers]

Brian, Look and see if there are any turning clubs in your area. Not many if any are having in person meetings (covid), but some are having Zoom meetings. This is the best way to get first hand knowledge and tool information. You think Nova chucks are expensive, there are more expensive brands. I recommend you get a chuck with the insert. It is highly likely you will invest in a larger lathe at some point. Your spindle thread 1”-8tpi and most larger lathes use 1 1/4” - 8tpi. You would just need to change the insert to have a useable chuck. It is a vortex, but you don’t need everything at once. You mentioned sharpening, You might post what you are using. My first tools were the HF set and I still use some of those today. I’m not a carbide user, but many are ok with it. I just like the cut I get from a fresh sharpened tool.

[roger wiegand]

I nominate John's post for a sticky!


Hello Brian. welcome to the forum!

My advice has more to do with learning than equipment. Yes, I'm one of those who consider a chuck (or more) invaluable for turning and recommend getting one, any one, soon. I went with Novas and have never been sorry (I have 20 Nova/Teknatool chucks now which might sound excessive but I have my reasons.) However, a more expensive or cheaper chuck will also do.

Some things you can do to ramp. Some involve other people.

- If you join a turning club you will find lots of people ready to help. It's more difficult to connect during this viral pandemic but many clubs that are not meeting in person have virtual meetings and live or recorded demos. Many members with experience are willing to give advice by phone. I've also had some people come to my shop for wood and instruction and with careful distancing and respirators we functioned safely.

- When all the virus horror is over I guaranteed it will be incredibly valuable to get some one-on-one instruction with an experienced turner. There are others like me willing to donate time to teach both the basics and advanced techniques of turning. Some places are currently offering live turning classes - perhaps check with your local Woodcraft or other woodworking-related store depending on your location.

- There are many useful videos on YouTube, which while not as good as face time time with a mentor, will still help you to advance. The biggest problem is there are many very bad turning videos on YouTube and and without experience it's hard to know which are bad. One way is to go through the list of videos on the AAW (American Association of Woodturners). All there are vetted for safety and quality of instruction. This will require joining.

- Join the AAW. In addition to the videos they have many resources for the beginner. There is a series of fundamentals documents that have good instruction. I think they still have an offer for a free or reduced introductory rate.

- Invest in a few books. Books contain SO much more information than a video. A video that had all the info in a typical book would be many hours, maybe days long. Authors often offer several ways to do something. They review all the tools and how to use them. Some have very good lessons in their books. I learned most of my turning about 20 years ago with two books:
-- "Fundamentals of Woodturning" by Mike Darlow (https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Woodturning-Publishing-Ultimate-Exercises/dp/1565233557)
-- "Turning wood" by Richard Raffan (https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Wood-Richard-Raffan/dp/156158956X

- Learn to use "conventional" tools, including the skew chisel and bowl and spindle gouges. As you noticed, most carbide tools won't give as good a surface as conventional tools. But as you also mentioned, conventional tools are useless unless they are sharp.

- Learn to sharpen! Having a sharpening mentor will help a lot! I've had several turners from our club come to my shop just to learn to sharpen. Sharpening any is possible free-hand but far easier with a setup for lathe tools. Needed: bench grinder, conventional wheels are fine, at least for starting. Useful: a setup like the Oneway Wolverine plus their Varigrind jig attachment for turning gouges.

- To work before you learn to sharpen, I would recommend buying one carbide tool, one of the Hunter Tools. These have a much different type of cutter than the typical carbide and can be used as either an excellent scraper or as a gouge. My personal favorite is the small Hunter Hercules. I often use it instead of a bowl gouge. It's capable, with some practice, of making some glass-like finish cuts in good wood.

- One more thing I think is very important for someone who wants to become an expert some day: start by turning spindles instead of bowls! Numerous experts say the same thing, some I've heard say so personally - Richard Raffan, Jimmy Clewes, Frank Penta, others in books: Keith Rowley, Mike Darlow. Even if you have no interest in turning spindles in the long run it will teach you the fine tool control needed to turn anything, including big and fancy bowls and platter. (And you might just find that turning spindles and other small things can be quite rewarding - if you want more about that just ask. :)) Rowley even says that if you learn to turn bowls first you may never be able to turn spindles. I know some very good turners who can turn anything (and well) - who they started with spindle turning. BTW, a chuck can also be quite useful for turning spindles, boxes, goblets, ring keepers, bud vases and more.

- Practice, practices, practice and ask lots of questions. There are a bunch of great woodturners here who are happy to help. There are lots of woodturning in SC too, just harder to visit in person for now. Mount a piece of wood and turn it to almost nothing without even trying to make a finished piece. One effective technique is to make every cut a practice cut. Repeat. I recommend using dry wood but whatever you can get is fine, even branches.

- ALWAYS wear protection from breathing dust and protection for your head when turning bigger things. I know I of one spectacular long-time turner who had to quit turning and get rid of everything because he slowly became highly allergic to wood dust. I use a powerful dust collector which helps a little on the the lathe, an industrial respirator when making sawdust, and use techniques which eliminate most of the sanding that makes clouds of dust.

That's all I can think of right now. And I need to go down to the barn and put the peacocks back in their cages.

JKJ

[Thomas Wilson80]

Best price for Nova chucks I’ve found is at tool-plus.com (a 1” x 8 tpi direct thread Nova G3 is $130 with wormscrew and 2” jaws - the downside is if you upgrade to a larger lathe that chuck won’t fit whereas the adapter chucks only need a new adapter).
Tom

[BRIAN JACKSON]

WOW! Appreciate you being so in depth, sharing your wisdom!

[BRIAN JACKSON]

Ohhhhh, now I get it...absolutely understand it now. Thanks!

[Reed Gray]

Brian, most people here and on other forums love to share their info and experience. I do have a bunch of turning videos up on You Tube, and most of them deal with bowl turning, and cover sharpening and mounting things on the lathe. I scratch my head at how many say to start with spindles and then go to bowls. I turned a spindle as my first and maybe second piece, and then went to bowls. I can do a fair job with spindle tools, but am much more comfortable with bowl turning tools. Just suits me.

The cheap part of turning is buying the lathe. While you can do without a chuck, they really come in handy for lots of things, both spindles and bowl type forms. I prefer the Vicmark. Most chucks will have replaceable inserts, so if you do step up to a bigger lathe in the future, you can change the insert. You will need a grinder and sharpening wheels. You will need abrasives, finishing supplies, maybe a bandsaw, and wood..... For bowls, 'FOG' wood is readily available, which stands for 'found on ground'. But, you will need a chainsaw. The reason clubs are so handy is that you can get lots of help. Most have wood gathering events where every one gets together to process a tree into turning blanks.

Have more fun!

robo hippy

[BRIAN JACKSON]

"robo hippy" I've actually watched some of your YouTube videos - quite helpful too! Thanks for the advice/info. Going to look for local clubs.... Happy turning!

[Richard Coers]

Thank you too David. Still trying to figure the sacrificial glue block thing out. Worried that when I part the wood off, my finished piece will go flying and can't get that out of my head. Thanks though!
You don't cut that deep on the sacrificial block on the lathe. You turn down a groove with a parting tool, then saw it off with a hand saw. Finally hand carve and sand off the nub. Turners did their work for centuries before chucks were invented. In fact wood turning 4 jaw chucks were invented after I started turning in 1985. That 1/2hp motor is going to be pretty bothersome turning bowls. As is the starting speed with a 4 step pulley. Out of balance blanks should not be considered.

[Bernie Kopfer]

This forum is a great place to not only obtain general advice listening to others, but also to get your individual turning problems and difficulties resolved. I am always impressed with the level of courtesy and good fun-poking that is evident here.
If you really want to take the time and money to learn the art of sharpening- go for it. But carbide tools will keep you turning and like me you will discover that there is not much that you can’t do with carbide.( And they can be resharpened easily) Many traditional tools entail extensive learning curves and specialized sharpening skills and knowledge to use well. But they have been around for generations and served us well. Carbide tipped tools will get you turning fast and as you see others use traditional tools you can add them to your Arsenal if you feel the need . Particularly the skew chisel. Have fun and do safe!

[Reed Gray]

I have said it before, and will say it again, the reason the carbide tools are so popular is that it allows people to see what scrapers can actually do. With the exception of the Hunter tools, the flat carbide cutters are small scrapers. They excel in removing lots of wood very fast. The main problem people run into with standard scrapers is that they try to use huge ones, which means more metal/cutting edge can get into contact with the wood very easily, which leads to the thought that scrapers will dig in and catch more than gouges. I never use a scraper over 1 inch wide. No need for it, and I can stall any lathe I have turned on with my 1 inch Big Ugly tool.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

WOW! Appreciate you being so in depth, sharing your wisdom!

Sir Brian,

One thing I forgot to mention - if you find things in all the comments here useful you might consider upgrading your SMC membership from Member to Contributor. I think the minimum contribution for that is still only $6 per year - pretty small for helping to keep the forum open and operating for us all!
https://sawmillcreek.org/payments.php

There are several advantages to being a Contributor, one of the most notable being the ability to view the photos posted. This can help a LOT when you ask a question that is best answered with a photo. For example, unless things have changed very recently you probably can't see this photo, first the "real" turning project of a student of mine after a few lessons in using the skew, bowl gouge, Hunter Hercules tool, negative rake scrapers, and hand scrapers:

450782 450783
(And I never touched the wood or tools!)

One think I don't know is if the Member status prevents viewing the photo albums other create here. The albums can be an good source of inspiration and ideas of things to make.
I'm quite curious to know if as a Member you can you view my woodturning album, three pages starting here: https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=862
If you have time to check, please let me know!

Thanks,
JKJ

[Randy Heinemann]

I agree with the advice to spend your time learning techniques and practicing rather than buying chucks and a lot of tools. In the end, watching videos, reading, taking hands-on classes, and a lot of practice improve the results you get from turning. There are no magic tools or chucks. I am a relatively new turner compared to the others commenting and I do have a lot of tools, but the fact is that I mostly use about 6 of my tools for most bowls (less frequently) and then a few more for hollowing. Keeping your tools sharp and learning the technique that works best for you from among the many variations that you can view on the internet. I found that picking a tool, researching techniques with that tool, and then practicing, practicing, practicing is the best way to get better; oh...and learning how to sharpen. If you find that steel tools are a better option, then you really have no choice but to buy or make a jig to sharpen and perfect your sharpening technique. The number of tools you own isn't the answer.