Dust collection for Hammer jointer/planer and table saw

[Gabriel Marusic]

I recently took delivery of my K3 and will at some point in the next 6 months hopefully receive my A3-31. At the moment I have a Grizzly 1hp Light Duty dust collector that I roll around and plug in machine to machine with 10' flex hose. I'd gotten by with it on my past table saw, but it is severely underpowered for the K3 and the incoming A3-31 so I need to step up my dust collection. My shop is pretty small and is actually my parents garage, so footprint and mobility are really important for me as I will always be rolling it around or getting a longer flex hose to accommodate. Comparing models I'm a bit lost with interpreting the cfm stats and would appreciate some real world advice as far as what would work based on my setup. I've been looking at the SHOP FOX W1685 which is 1.5HP 1,280 CFM, the Super Max 1.5HP 1,200 CFM, Jet 1100VC 1.5HP 1,100 CFM and the Mini Gorilla which is 1.5HP and 587 "Actual" CFM. The prices have a pretty wide range with the Grizzly and Super Max coming in less than $500 while the Mini Gorilla is around $1,400. I realize the Mini Gorilla is a different type of DC from the others mentioned so it's not exactly a fair comparison based on price but I've read great feedback on it so I wanted to take it into consideration. I don't anticipate my shop getting any bigger so I'm not in a situation where I need to buy for the future so to speak. I'd love to hear what you folks with similar sized setups are running and having work for you.

[Scott Bernstein]

Congrats on the K3 and A3-31. I have an A3-41 and love it; my table saw is a SawStop PCS. Good to beware of CFM numbers from the various manufacturers. I think it's fair to say the numbers provided by the specialty dust collection manufacturers *may* more accurately reflect real-world or "at the tool" values (ClearVue, Oneida, etc...). Often the numbers given for CFM by other "commodity" tool manufacturers are measured at the dust collector inlet, with no load and no filters. This is a best case scenario and so may not actually mean very much. Exhaust filters and piping/flex hose add to the static pressure load and actual flow rates at the tool inlet are greatly reduced. SO that shop fox DC which claims 1280CFM will probably actually be much lower in practical use, probably more like the Mini Gorilla. For a given motor horsepower rating, the larger the impeller the higher the flow rate (assuming the same impeller design) - but a larger impeller also puts higher loads on the motor, so there is a balance to be achieved in the blower design. Also the type of vacuum piping and the length of the runs will have an affect on actual CFM seen at the tool inlet. Smooth-wall pipe is better than corrugated pipe; solid pipe is better than flex hose, for example. Also consider what kind of filtration is on the exhaust side, especially if you will be working in an enclosed garage. A more efficient cyclone and filter will add static pressure to the system and reduce flow rate. A smartly designed cyclone will interfere less. A highly restrictive HEPA type filter will ensure better air quality but will be less efficient (less air flow) per unit of filter surface area, so specialty manufacturers use very large pleated filters in their dust collectors to account for that (more surface area means more flow). After doing lots of reading, I settled on a 5hp ClearVue CV1800 for my garage shop. This works amazingly great on all my tools. I have measured actual CFM at the tool in actual working conditions, and I get 2000CFM total, split between two open 4" ports - so effectively 1000CFM at each 4" port. I have about 20feet of 6" PVC pipe with several 4" flex tube extensions along the run to connect to my tools. Each 4" extension has a manual blast gate. This is overkill to be sure, but it works great!

I use a Dylos particle meter in the shop to keep an eye on dust levels. Also the A3-31 has a metric size dust port so you will need some kind of adapter if you want to connect it to a 4" pipe. I just bought the one from Hammer, but you can put something together from the local big box store, or if you know someone with a 3D printer.

Scott B

[ChrisA Edwards]

For reference, I have a Jet 1100. I've converted it to two stage and mounted it on a wall. I use a Super Dust Deputy XL cyclone and a 55 gallon first stage bin.

I have about 40' of 5" metal duct (Home Depot ) with two drops terminating in with a wye with a 4" and 2.5" blast gates.

From there, I connect to my machine with 15' 4" flex hose.

This serves my A3-31, SawStop, Hammer F3 Shaper and ShopFox W1812 Moulder, plus others. These machines create the largest volume of chips and sawdust.

I've used this setup for about 5 years and have had no serious issues with it under performing.

One project, using my ShopFox Moulder, I filled twelve 55 Gallon bags with shavings.

On the two Hammer machines this is my dust port setup. Left to right, 4"x4" rubber coupler (HomeDepot), Powertec 70170 5" to 4" reducer and a Rockler Dust Rite connector
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/.highres/DustPort2_zpsfyqylx7i.jpg

Hope this helps.

[Prashun Patel]

Personally I would get a small cyclone. While your shop may not get any bigger, I promise you your desire for better and better dust collection will.

Cyclones are more effective for longer and more convenient to change. If you can step up to a bonafide 2 stage I would..

I have one of the Oneida v series and am happy. I use a single flex hose that gets swapped between my JP and tsaw and it works very very well.

[Rod Sheridan]

I agree with Prashun, go for the Oneida cyclone and use 5 inch polyurethane flex hose as it's very flexible, don't buy the PVC hose.

I find the Felder right angle hose fitting part number 02.0,020 is very handy for both of your machines..........Regards, Rod.

[William Chain]

I am working in a garage as well, everything on wheels. My A3-41 arrives today in a matter hours (gasm...), and I run a Sawstop PCS, a typical router table, radial arm saws, 16-32 drum sander, and prior to the A3-41, an 8 inch jointer and a 13 inch planer. I have the Oneida mini gorilla that I wheel up to each station and run a flex hose. I anticipate the A3-41 will hook up with a similar adapter set to the one posted by Mr. Edwards. I highly recommend the mini gorilla - it is a true cyclone, nice hepa filter, and a reasonably sized collection bin and plenty of flow for all of the above. The CFM ratings on the different websites are a pissing contest of sorts, nobody measures the same way for an apples to apples comparison, but give the Oneida hard look. As I said, all my gear is on wheels, and the gorilla is no exception. It will be good for your setup, and much better than the grizzly unit you currently use. Just keep an eye on the bin is all. You fill that, and you will pack the filter, don't ask me how I know. Plenty of power for collection at a single station, and still portable for a garage type situation.

[Jim Becker]

CFM numbers on "mass market" dust collectors are dubious at best and you can pretty much never get a fan curve to know what the expected performance will be. That's something that specialty vendors like Clearvue and Oneida have an advantage on, IMHO. For the tools you have purchased, a higher performance system, especially for the J/P is important (bad extraction can cause it to plug up) and even the slider will benefit from higher performance with and without an overarm collection setup. So my advice to you is to invest in the most capable system you can budget for. A cyclone will be a lot easier to deal with debris disposal, too. You can and WILL fill up the bin very quickly when milling material with that J/P I assure you.

I'm an Oneida fan and have been very pleased with them. I'd certainly consider ClearVue, too, if I were going to invest in a larger system.

[Steve Catts]

An additional option for your dust connection to the Hammer...

I was shopping for a Fernco fitting that would meet this need but came to understand that additional fittings would be required to cobble together a full connection to 4" hose. As it turns out, I saw in another post that Rockler's Sched 40 to 4" dust fitting works perfectly. It's a very snug flexible fit (band clamp) onto the 120mm Hammer port and then a rigid portion for your 4" hose. I maintain a 4" couple on the end of my hose and then just slip in on the port of my Hammer or table saw. Very easy.

[Gabriel Marusic]

I am working in a garage as well, everything on wheels. My A3-41 arrives today in a matter hours (gasm...), and I run a Sawstop PCS, a typical router table, radial arm saws, 16-32 drum sander, and prior to the A3-41, an 8 inch jointer and a 13 inch planer. I have the Oneida mini gorilla that I wheel up to each station and run a flex hose. I anticipate the A3-41 will hook up with a similar adapter set to the one posted by Mr. Edwards. I highly recommend the mini gorilla - it is a true cyclone, nice hepa filter, and a reasonably sized collection bin and plenty of flow for all of the above. The CFM ratings on the different websites are a pissing contest of sorts, nobody measures the same way for an apples to apples comparison, but give the Oneida hard look. As I said, all my gear is on wheels, and the gorilla is no exception. It will be good for your setup, and much better than the grizzly unit you currently use. Just keep an eye on the bin is all. You fill that, and you will pack the filter, don't ask me how I know. Plenty of power for collection at a single station, and still portable for a garage type situation.

Congrats on the new A3-41! Super jealous that you have it now, I think I'm still 6 months out? Really appreciate the reply on the dust collection. I am definitely giving the Mini Gorilla a hard look and am glad to hear that it works for the machinery you're running as your setup is larger and more diverse than mine.

[Gabriel Marusic]

I agree with Prashun, go for the Oneida cyclone and use 5 inch polyurethane flex hose as it's very flexible, don't buy the PVC hose.

I find the Felder right angle hose fitting part number 02.0,020 is very handy for both of your machines..........Regards, Rod.

Thank you for the vote on the Oneida and the fitting, gotta dig in and see if there are any deals out there now.

[Gabriel Marusic]

CFM numbers on "mass market" dust collectors are dubious at best and you can pretty much never get a fan curve to know what the expected performance will be. That's something that specialty vendors like Clearvue and Oneida have an advantage on, IMHO. For the tools you have purchased, a higher performance system, especially for the J/P is important (bad extraction can cause it to plug up) and even the slider will benefit from higher performance with and without an overarm collection setup. So my advice to you is to invest in the most capable system you can budget for. A cyclone will be a lot easier to deal with debris disposal, too. You can and WILL fill up the bin very quickly when milling material with that J/P I assure you.

I'm an Oneida fan and have been very pleased with them. I'd certainly consider ClearVue, too, if I were going to invest in a larger system.

Yeah the CFM stats are a bit of a misnomer as there isn't a standard on how they're actually testing them to advertise those numbers. Mini Gorilla is basically top of my budget, do you think that will be enough for overarm collection in addition to the main collection? At the moment I'm doing the blade guard setup straight to my festool vac and it's ok at best. Would ideally consolidate the two into single dust collection setup.

[William Chain]

Sure! I did what you're probably doing - looking at the single stage things, looking at the oneida add ons, etc.... by the time you bodge all that together, just pony up for the one piece unit. I certainly don't regret the slight premium price. Would I like the permanently installed clearvue or big oneida unit, or something comparable/bigger? F*&$ yeh I would, but my garage is a garage, a woodshop, a gym, etc. We do what we can.


Really appreciate the reply. I am definitely giving the Mini Gorilla a hard look and am glad to hear that it works for the machinery you're running as your setup is larger and more diverse than mine.

[Jim Becker]

Yeah the CFM stats are a bit of a misnomer as there isn't a standard on how they're actually testing them to advertise those numbers. Mini Gorilla is basically top of my budget, do you think that will be enough for overarm collection in addition to the main collection? At the moment I'm doing the blade guard setup straight to my festool vac and it's ok at best. Would ideally consolidate the two into single dust collection setup.

I just looked at the Mini-Gorilla for someone in another thread. Nope, that's not going to cut the mustard with your larger tools. Their next step up "might" but it will add a grand to your budget requirement and may still not be the best choice. You bought some tools that actually require good dust collection to operate properly. Worse case, get one of the larger, single stage units to use until you can opt for the bigger cyclone system. Just use very high quality replacement filter bags, such as those from American Fabric Filter or similar.

[Gabriel Marusic]

Congrats on the K3 and A3-31. I have an A3-41 and love it; my table saw is a SawStop PCS. Good to beware of CFM numbers from the various manufacturers. I think it's fair to say the numbers provided by the specialty dust collection manufacturers *may* more accurately reflect real-world or "at the tool" values (ClearVue, Oneida, etc...). Often the numbers given for CFM by other "commodity" tool manufacturers are measured at the dust collector inlet, with no load and no filters. This is a best case scenario and so may not actually mean very much. Exhaust filters and piping/flex hose add to the static pressure load and actual flow rates at the tool inlet are greatly reduced. SO that shop fox DC which claims 1280CFM will probably actually be much lower in practical use, probably more like the Mini Gorilla. For a given motor horsepower rating, the larger the impeller the higher the flow rate (assuming the same impeller design) - but a larger impeller also puts higher loads on the motor, so there is a balance to be achieved in the blower design. Also the type of vacuum piping and the length of the runs will have an affect on actual CFM seen at the tool inlet. Smooth-wall pipe is better than corrugated pipe; solid pipe is better than flex hose, for example. Also consider what kind of filtration is on the exhaust side, especially if you will be working in an enclosed garage. A more efficient cyclone and filter will add static pressure to the system and reduce flow rate. A smartly designed cyclone will interfere less. A highly restrictive HEPA type filter will ensure better air quality but will be less efficient (less air flow) per unit of filter surface area, so specialty manufacturers use very large pleated filters in their dust collectors to account for that (more surface area means more flow). After doing lots of reading, I settled on a 5hp ClearVue CV1800 for my garage shop. This works amazingly great on all my tools. I have measured actual CFM at the tool in actual working conditions, and I get 2000CFM total, split between two open 4" ports - so effectively 1000CFM at each 4" port. I have about 20feet of 6" PVC pipe with several 4" flex tube extensions along the run to connect to my tools. Each 4" extension has a manual blast gate. This is overkill to be sure, but it works great!

I use a Dylos particle meter in the shop to keep an eye on dust levels. Also the A3-31 has a metric size dust port so you will need some kind of adapter if you want to connect it to a 4" pipe. I just bought the one from Hammer, but you can put something together from the local big box store, or if you know someone with a 3D printer.

Scott B

Thank you for the really thorough explanation. I know what you're saying about the CFM stats, they're misleading at best. Your CFM numbers are pretty insane, lol. I'm going to go with the mini gorilla based on all the feedback I've been reading on it and oneida in general.

[David Stone (CT)]

I have my K3 hooked up to a dirt-simple 1 HP single stage unit that dates back to the era when replacing the cheesy factory bag with a felt one was deemed quite the upgrade. Even connected with six feet of flex hose featuring a 180 degree bend, it works acceptably well in terms of getting the sawdust that makes it below the table, which is not surprising since there's a shroud and then internal hose that goes right to the dust port. I'm not recommending this set-up, but mention it only to say that the real challenge if you're a stickler about dust in the shop is going to be the considerable amount of stuff that spews out across the top of this saw, or any table saw, and is never going to get captured from below. I don't recall seeing anyone report they've successfully used the little port on the as-standard riving knife-mounted guard for above-the-table dust collection. I have a Biesemeyer overhead guard on my saw and someday plan to work on getting some kind of reasonable dust collection on it as part of an overall upgrade to duct collection in my shop. In that context, Oneida's Supercell system seems really intriguing.

[Gabriel Marusic]

I have my K3 hooked up to a dirt-simple 1 HP single stage unit that dates back to the era when replacing the cheesy factory bag with a felt one was deemed quite the upgrade. Even connected with six feet of flex hose featuring a 180 degree bend, it works acceptably well in terms of getting the sawdust that makes it below the table, which is not surprising since there's a shroud and then internal hose that goes right to the dust port. I'm not recommending this set-up, but mention it only to say that the real challenge if you're a stickler about dust in the shop is going to be the considerable amount of stuff that spews out across the top of this saw, or any table saw, and is never going to get captured from below. I don't recall seeing anyone report they've successfully used the little port on the as-standard riving knife-mounted guard for above-the-table dust collection. I have a Biesemeyer overhead guard on my saw and someday plan to work on getting some kind of reasonable dust collection on it as part of an overall upgrade to duct collection in my shop. In that context, Oneida's Supercell system seems really intriguing.

My little dust collector does ok on the lower collection but isn't enough to power both the blade guard and lower collection. I was pretty surprised with how much dust kicks out from above the blade with and without dust collection attached there. Right now I have the basic guard that came with the machine hooked up to my festool vac. While it is better than nothing, it is definitely not good. In addition to getting the Mini Gorilla I'm also looking at the Sharkguard or something similar. I'm lucky I'm able to run with the garage open the majority of the time which helps but I feel like I definitely need a beefier setup.

[Jim Becker]

I was pretty surprised with how much dust kicks out from above the blade with and without dust collection attached there.

I just became even more aware of this in the past few days. I recently purchased an inexpensive particle sensor for my shop just for grins. A project I'm doing for a client required quite a bit of cutting at my slider. The material is black walnut. I'm running a decently capable Oneida cyclone with a 5" drop off the 7-6" main to my slider's 120mm port. Distance from the port to the cyclone inlet is, maybe 20 feet tops. I was not using an over-head collection hood for this work and it would have been difficult to do so because it was mostly mitered cross cuts with a fixture attached to my small miter fence set to 7.5º. My air filtration system was also off as I forget to turn it on way too often. The saw blade is located about 20' from the sensor and the debris coming of the top of the blade go in the opposite direction. Let's just say that the level of fines in my shop's air jumped into the "red zone" on the sensor surprisingly fast from ambient which is very low. (the "aroma" of walnut was also quite high) The moral of the story here is that I really didn't realize just how much fine stuff comes off the blade on that tool and I have to rethink not using overhead collection as much as I clearly should.

So make that part of your decision/planning process here.

[Rod Sheridan]

Agreed Jim, I think somewhere around 30 to 40% comes off the top of the blade...........Rod.

[Steve Wurster]

I just became even more aware of this in the past few days. I recently purchased an inexpensive particle sensor for my shop just for grins. A project I'm doing for a client required quite a bit of cutting at my slider. The material is black walnut. I'm running a decently capable Oneida cyclone with a 5" drop off the 7-6" main to my slider's 120mm port. Distance from the port to the cyclone inlet is, maybe 20 feet tops. I was not using an over-head collection hood for this work and it would have been difficult to do so because it was mostly mitered cross cuts with a fixture attached to my small miter fence set to 7.5º. My air filtration system was also off as I forget to turn it on way too often. The saw blade is located about 20' from the sensor and the debris coming of the top of the blade go in the opposite direction. Let's just say that the level of fines in my shop's air jumped into the "red zone" on the sensor surprisingly fast from ambient which is very low. (the "aroma" of walnut was also quite high) The moral of the story here is that I really didn't realize just how much fine stuff comes off the blade on that tool and I have to rethink not using overhead collection as much as I clearly should.

So make that part of your decision/planning process here.

It is quite amazing how much comes off the top of the blade. I almost always use the riving knife-mounted guard on my Hammer K3, and I have a Shop Vac with a Dust Deputy hooked up to that for "over the top" extraction. It's just barely adequate, I would say.

If it's a ripping cut where there's enough material on both sides of the blade to be covered by the guard, then I think most of the dust gets picked up. If it's a skim cut, which happens a lot with a slider, then almost nothing gets picked up, but that's typical for that kind of cut. Miter cuts are just so-so. On my previous contractor-style saw I rigged up SawStop's dust collection guard, also with that Shop Vac, and that worked pretty well (except for skim cuts). I did manage to rig it up to the K3's guard, and it worked better than the stock guard, but its design and size don't work well with a slider, unfortunately.

My air filtration is just above the infeed side of the saw, so that helps when I remember to turn it on. Wearing a respirator also helps when working with walnut, as I seem to have a slight allergy to its dust. I don't always remember to wear that, either.

My DC setup is a 1.5 HP Delta 50-760 with a Super Dust Deputy mounted underneath connected to some 5" piping. That sits directly to the right of my saw, so it's a nice short run. I'm going to try running a 5" flex line off that and up above the saw, then narrowing it down to the ~2.5" connector on the K3's guard. I'll close (or mostly close) the blast gate for the slider's cabinet and open up the overhead one all the way to see how it behaves. If it seems to work well then I might look into a "true" overhead solution, although in reality I should probably upgrade my DC for that to work properly.