home sewer system gurggling and smell

[Warren Lake]

Having some sewer issues. First was told there was a gurgling sound and when I opened the main drain in the basement the water level was high, it actually came out and went a foot or so to either side of the drain before I got there.

I snaked it all with the heaviest snake I have and it made a bit of a difference but not enough so hired a pro company They did a good job with one of those Ridgid machines with all the diff attachments and things seemed on track. A month later im told its gurgling again and smell so hired the same guy back and he went through it all. i wasnt there but told he did his thing then called in and checked all his steps. Now hear a day later its gurgling again and the smell is even worse than before he wen there. Ive emailed them twice and will start into this again tomorrow

What am I missing or them? . The home was built in 55 and there is no schematic of what is below the home as far as I know for what is below the home. Never had any issues ever but it did sit empty for a few years. I would expect tbey run a camera in. Is that the correct next step?

thanks

w

[Bill Dufour]

Does it freeze where ever you live. Tree roots, orangeburg pipe?
Bil lD

[mike stenson]

A belly in the line, all sorts of obstructions.. if it was septic, also leech field. A camera's a good thing, I think.

[Warren Lake]

freezes and snow but home is well heated. No septic its on town. Left vacant for a bit. One huge tree out back. black Locust I think monster but never in the past had issues with it and cedars at the side likely 40 feet tall now run almost the full length of the yard block out all the other homes.

Since a pro guy has snaked it would he not find roots with that rotating chomping thin, they have a choice of five or ten front things. I dont get it but asked them about a camera so will see what they say. I did check the vent tubes out the roof and had run a snake in and poured water down a month or more ago before freezing and it all flowed nicely but I still wonder about that a bit. Gurgling is a sign I just dont know how to read it. I learn stuff as i go, roof rebuilds etc but this im not sure about. There is also an area of concrete floor broken where the town put a new water meter in, I broke up the area say 15" round and its a bit hollow under the concrete floor. I think I shoiuld concrete that in as it cant be positive. Maybe it back how it was, seems odd the main copper water line line just came up through the concrete with no protection around it. I dont think its involved, just dont see positive if any air can come up from under the concrete floor that otherwise was sealed off before.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Have you checked the vent stack for obstructions. All sewers pass gas, just like humans. And same as humans, it's better passed quietly. Instead of a snake, try a Drain King. It's bladder that attaches to end of garden hose, and then it' pushed into sewer main. Turn on water, bladder inflates, sealing it's self inside pipe. flapper on the end allows water to pass, creating both pressure and viberations, which most time will free up obstruction, unless it's roots. The Borgs carry "Drain Kings."

[Ron Citerone]

My Dad’s old house had to be roto rooted every other year or so. Saw it done there several times and also at my son in laws. They always came up with roots wrapped around the cutter when they retrieved it. Houses in my neighborhood built in the 50’s are starting to have iron sewer lines that collapse. Not sure if that helps.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

I've been involved in this problem before.
1) My house: I remember the City coming to snake the outflow when I was a little lad, and the tree roots that came out.
2) During my career as a contractor, I was often called upon as part of a remodel to get the drains cleared. At first, I called my plumber for the drainage crew to come in.
I soon found, though, that I had to call in the "big guns" - the City Works crew. More expensive, but these crews have the blueprints for the outfalls and the gear to REALLY clean the pipes.
Never had a callback when they came out.

[Jim Koepke]

Gurgling is a sign I just dont know how to read it.

As long as there isn't a raspy voice whispering, "get out." :eek:

You may have a situation where a root has caused your drain pipe to shift. This could even cause a belly as one post mentioned. You could have a situation where there is a small underground area that is draining slowly and causing the gurgling sound.

You may be able to get a map from your local water district showing how the sewers in your area are running. They could drop some dye in your toilet, flush it and someone at an access point can watch for the dye to indicate your flow and such.

jtk

[roger wiegand]

Gurgling makes me suspect a venting issue. Sounds like you've already checked that though. Beyond that it starts to get hard and expensive. A camera can be useful; I'd be consulting with a good plumber in addition to the line cleaning guys. Many of them only know how to do one thing and don't know what to try next.

[Lee Schierer]

It sounds like your tank is full and cannot drain because of a failed leach field. Drain cleaners and other chemicals can kill the bacteria in the tank that do the work. It is recommended that septic tanks get pumped every 3-5 years depending upon the number of people using the system. When was the last time yours was pumped?

Pumping it will tell you if it is a septic tank and leach field or a cistern type system.

Leach fields do not last forever. Systems in sandy soils and gravel last much longer than those installed in heavy clay soil. It also depends on how well the contractor constructed the original system. How old is your field?

Before you do any work to repair your system other than pumping, contact your local health department. Here in PA, there are restrictions on what you can and cannot do to existing systems. They fine you if you do work that is not approved and make you build an approved system.

[Jim Koepke]

It sounds like your tank is full and cannot drain…

Lee, This was one of my first thoughts until seeing this in the OP's second post:


No septic its on town.

It was easy to miss.

jtk

[Warren Lake]

thanks all very much for your thoughts and experience. Drain company said they will come back today snake and camera. No Septic on that home.

Do have a place with a septic. The main street in this town has flooded twice since ive lived here and people on town sewers had raw sewage back up into their homes, heard some four feet deep. Im on a septic no issues. that was one time I was glad to be on a septic. Know now when people hook up they put back flow preventers in.

Thanks for all the replys you are a wealth of common sense and experience. Will let the drain people do their thing and see what they find.



w

[Andrew Seemann]

My current house had to be snaked every year due to back ups. A couple years ago, I got fed up and had them run a camera down the line, for $100. They found where two pipes had shifted and the 4 inch pipe had only 2 inches of clearance at the joint. For another $100, they ran a widget with a radio transmitter, so they could tell me where in the yard the shift was, and how deep. 15 minutes later with a shovel, and I can see where one pipe had sunk at a Fernco fitting. A week later, a borrowed backhoe, 10' of pipe, and some fittings, and I have two cleanouts and no more shifted pipes. And no more blockages:)

450542


My previous house had both a tree root problem and a low spot in the line where stuff would collect and eventually plug the line (fortunately the city required back flow preventers). I just had the sewer people come once a year and that usually prevented back ups. Unfortunately, there the sewer pipe was 9 feet down and under trees, so a yearly clean out was cheaper than repair. Plus I didn't want to find out what else was wrong with my 100 year old sewer. When I had a new waterline run, I found out that the lead pipe supplying my house also was supplying my neighbor's house. They ended up being required to get a new water service also. The guys doing the water service said it also wasn't uncommon to tie more than one house's sewer together.

[BOB OLINGER]

As others have mentioned, I suggest you check the drain vents as it sounds like they might have some blockage.

[Warren Lake]

thanks for all the additional thoughts and info.

by drain vents you mean the pipes that go up through the roof? think so, One was the original 3 or 4" then a second bathroom was added and that one had the 2" or whatever it is go to the roof on its own. No issue for 50 years. Is there a better way to check them I did my snake thing and also poured water down when it wasnt cold and as far as i could tell worked fine. They never put a screen on those and I can see fine leaves from the Locust tree in the eves and have to wonder how many may or may not have gotten in there. Advanced target practice but its possible. Thanks for the photo thats fairly nasty.

[Mike Soaper]

I've not done it, but you might have the plumber do a smoke test to check for broken pipes, in and out of the house, and to see if the vent pipes are working.

there's some videos on you tube that show how it's done

[Mike Soaper]

That there is a smell is telling me that there is a broken pipe or a dry trap

[Warren Lake]

traps all have water. Hope you are wrong on the pipe but your logic is good otherwise where is it coming from. Then know of one place with no broken pipes and smell has come back in there from a bad deal on the basement sewage basin where the power wires came into the basin and a former owner moron who put the vent tube for it out through the block wall. He had a history of doing crap work. When I went to open the septic main tube end that unscrews he had drywalled over it but thats nothing compared to all ive found so far. Saddly I can beat that with my own place. Former owner truck driver addition he put on, Zero knowledge or integrity, corrupt building inspector. Bad combination. Mike Holmes will always have work.

Did think about a smoke test on the roof vents as well not sure how its done but know most is on the net. As it stands camera people will come friday morning

[Doug Dawson]

You didn’t say where you were. Is this by any chance a suburb of Detroit?

[Myk Rian]

Warning!!!!
Do not check the vent pipe by stuffing a leaf blower in it.
I did that once to get rid of wasp nests, and turned the toilet into a bidet.
Don't be me/that guy.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Warren, if it wasn't winter I'd suggest try taking a water hose and run some water down each of the vents to insure they are open. Being winter, I would be a little hesitant to try that.

[Warren Lake]

I did try a 20 foot snake in them and water after think they were both okay but one does has that Black Locust tree maybe 40 feet away or more and little tiny leaves that go everywhere. I did run water down as it wasnt winter at that point and sure it went down effortless. Someone else was inside while i did it.

Thats funny on the Red Kneck Bidet you might have a new invention there. I changed the ride oil on the ride on mower where there was snow on the ground. Just ran out of time. It was taking way too long so after some time right or wrong put the air compressor in and low pressure just blipping it. Worked well to clean it out and asked a small engine guy and he said it was fine.

[Warren Lake]

Meant to answer back on this and not reading back on if I had snaked or not but it ended up I snaked the home and made a difference but not enough, I also ran the snake down both the stacks on the roof and dumped hot water down before it was too cold so no icing issues. both felt clear and water ran down fine.

Days later I called in a pro company with a Ridgid machine and all seemed well. He said he got a clog inside in one of the clean outs or I guess there is a trap there. Weeks later same issues so called them back and another guy came and seemed fine only days later to still have an issue. gurggling again.

I called the company back and asked for a camera. This time they sent the foreman who is the owners son and clear he had more experience. After a bit on it he figured out that there was a clog on the outside of the home at the bottom of the foundation. There is clean out behind the bushes and a trap at the bottom of that pipe. He didnt think the roto thing with the diamond shaped tip would go through the clean out but it did and ran right to the road. Still not cleaned out enough he left that and ran the camera in back and forth many times and that did the trick. He said there was grease in the pipe which made no sense as my mother never did that. Only in a can under the sink. The clog outside was just a build up of toilet paper. Said stay away from Charmin and one of the costco thick ones. Mostly the home had been empty and in that time no usual water flow going out.


other things i remembered
pipe out from the home to the street was 6", I guess this is why the clean out tool did go through, pretty sure he said pipe size they use now is 4", that doesnt seem ideal, larger would be better,
said now all have a back flow presenter, this one older no plus the trap outside how this is done was not done since 1970
he had a special plunger tool sort of a round flexible disc on a bamboo pole where you ad extensions, that went down in the clean out and brought stuff back up
said once a month to fill the bowl right up and do a flush and this sends a mass of water at once down sort of as a preventative maintenance thing

It got solved and so far has been fine. I know they did work in the area to increase the size of the trunks in the road. The road this home is on was left alone but would have flowed into the newer larger pipes. Realize we should look into the back flow, some put them inside some put them outside. Heard people do it both ways and reasons why.

One of the guys here mentioned a tool that goes on a garden hose and fills up and expands and shoots water out. Did find that last night plus one other guy had rigged up the same thing but powered by compressed air instead of using water. His view water pressure low said 35 PSI guess it depends think it is higher here than that. Both water and air pressure would be good same time.

Appreciate the time and info everyone posted. The original fee was 168.00. second time round were not charged which should be as it failed. 3rd time round was 400.00 2 hours at 200.00 per hour. Had to be done and so far has worked perfectly and hope it continues that way.

[Fred Perreault]

Small black locust tree roots can travel 25'-30'. Large, or really large locust trees travel more than 60', and are rather burly roots. In our area, which does not have town sewer, black locust is a commonly found tree. The roots travel 25' towards the roadside, then across/under the nice warm road and cause cracking and heaving. I'd bet on tree roots adversely affecting your sewer pipe, and causing gurgling sound due to poor or slow draining. I have professionally installed on-site septic for over 50 years, and have seen incremental changes in technology and materials, but have also seen some remarkable things ocurring underground near sewage carrying plumbing pipes and infrastructure. Great nutrients available from sewage......

[Jim Allen]

We had a similar problem in terms of multiple Ror-Rooter visits, camera located the problem, (manufactured house placed 1997), don't' know when the back walkway was placed, but this was the problem:

452682

Yeah, they put the walkway over the cleanout, we've been here 14 years, and the walkway was old then.

[Warren Lake]

I know about tree roots, ive pulled super fine ones that have traveled from one home to another to find septic tanks. Once one little guy finds the tank he tells all his friends on Facebook and next thing there is a party. Ive watched friggin weeds come up through driveways that could withstand the 4000 lb vehicles on them and not sag. No wonder they told us not to eat apple seeds, id have damn trees sprouting out of my body by now.

There were zero, absolutely zero tree roots in the metal pipes below the home and all were in very good shape, I watched all the camera stuff and the camera was essentially used as a snake. I watched his technique to get the camera clean and watched it go from clogged to clear.

When he said they no longer have a trap just out of the home I should have said how and why did they change it, answers in that and typing this see I have a few more questions to send to understand it. Likely they found that to be an issue and went to no trap and a back flow preventer which also offered other advantages. My accountants home is five blocks away and up higher its flooded twice with 40k plus basement damage each time while this one at a lower level remained unaffected.