New table saw

[Brian Runau]

Looking for a new table saw to replace piece of ____ I have now. I have 115V power. I could go to 3hp, but the 1/75 has worked fine for me in terms of power. Limited on space in terms of how wide I can go and need. 36" cut width would be fine and again the 1.75 hp has worked fine./ Looking at this Laguna model. Looking at the manual it looks like it has set screw adjustment for table to blade square which would be a nice option.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/fusion-f2-table-saw-laguna

Thanks.
(https://www.woodcraft.com/products/fusion-f2-table-saw-laguna)

[Todd Trebuna]

That was on my very short list too, Brian. I decided instead to go SawStop, but everything I read on that saw was positive.

[Brian Runau]

That was on my very short list too, Brian. I decided instead to go SawStop, but everything I read on that saw was positive.

Todd:

I liked the safety feature, but is it worth the extra $1000? Thanks Brian

[Bruce King]

Nice saw, interesting though how they require a 25 amp breaker, this is almost double the FLA.

[Jim Becker]

If you mean you only have 120v power available, that's going to keep you in the 1.75hp max range machinery space which most often for new machines is a "hybrid" type cabinet saw. They have been somewhat popular over the last decade because they fill a need for something with more mass than a more portable machine but keeping within the capability that 120v power can provide. If you can support 240v in your shop space, that will allow you to consider the 3hp cabinet saw options for new or used.

[Justin Rapp]

While I don't have that saw, I have a few other Laguna tools and they are well made and I've had nothing but good success with them. The old 'stigma' about bad customer service is also a non-issue now. I've called them with questions pre-purchase and they always got back to me same day.

I have thought about getting a Laguna table saw but really want the safety of the sawstop.

[Dave Seng]

Todd:

I liked the safety feature, but is it worth the extra $1000? Thanks Brian

My thoughts (driven partially by the fact that I'm a Firefighter/EMS guy) - What's the cost of a trip to the Emergency Room? Let alone missing a digit or two if they can't be saved...
I looked at a lot of saws before I bought my SawStop - and then just gritted my teeth and dug deeper into the wallet. Bought a little peace of mind in a shop full of other things that can tear a fella up pretty easily too.

That Laguna looks pretty nice - and should serve you well for a long time.

[Brian Runau]

If you mean you only have 120v power available, that's going to keep you in the 1.75hp max range machinery space which most often for new machines is a "hybrid" type cabinet saw. They have been somewhat popular over the last decade because they fill a need for something with more mass than a more portable machine but keeping within the capability that 120v power can provide. If you can support 240v in your shop space, that will allow you to consider the 3hp cabinet saw options for new or used.

I have 1.75 now and it is plenty for me. Do you get better features by going to 3hp?

[Frank Pratt]

Todd:

I liked the safety feature, but is it worth the extra $1000? Thanks Brian

For the extra $1000, you're getting a lot more than the safety feature. Both the PCS & ICS are miles ahead of most any other saws in their class in terms of build quality & finish. Powermatic is probably the brand that is closest in quality.

[Micah Puscheck]

I am probably towards the bottom of the list of people here qualified to talk on the subject, but I was basically right where you were.

Have a bottom end Craftsman direct drive saw that runs on 120v and has enough power to do the basics, though cutting 2" maple was beyond it's capabilities without doing it in two passes or burning wood. The cutting *quality* was more of the issue to me than the power. But I digress...

I was looking at Hybrids for months, looking used and new, trying to figure out what made sense. In the end, I upsold myself a couple times and ended up on a Grizzly 1023RL, which is a real 3hp table saw. I wanted to be sure that the power wouldn't be a limiting factor for me in the future. I cannot compare quality of Laguna vs Grizzly myself, but the hybrids from Grizzly were only a couple hundred more to go to a full cabinet saw.

The Laguna looks like a nice hybrid to me. Iron table and extension wings is a nice plus. However, the trunions and the rails are both aluminum on yours, as opposed to steel. There's probably a good bit more that's different as well, but I don't know all the specifics. You can see how heavy they're built just by looking at the specs - the hybrid Laguna weighs 276 pounds, while the 3hp version Laguna weighs about 100 pounds more.

My useless $.02, you are looking at what would likely be a really nice saw. A 3hp will have beefier construction and more power, but if the hybrid will cut what you need, that looks pretty cool!

[Bryan Lisowski]

I would look into the options Harvey has available. They look very well built.

[Brian Runau]

I would look into the options Harvey has available. They look very well built.

Harvey?

Thanks.

[Jim Becker]

I have 1.75 now and it is plenty for me. Do you get better features by going to 3hp?
The increase in power is nice when cutting thicker material, but performance wise for most common cutting, it's not a big issue. The 3hp+ machines do tend to have more mass, slightly larger tables and tend to vibrate less. If you expect to continue working the same way your are now, then one of the nominal 1.75hp saws would likely satisfy you and would run on 120v 20 amp power.

[Mike Kees]

I would go with the Grizzly 1023 line. One of my former employees has one ,real nice saw. Smooth ,quiet and powerful.

[Jim Dwight]

When I got my PCS I think SawStop was providing the blade guard with the vacuum attachment with the 3hp model. My 1.75hp does not have it. I haven't used my blade guard yet (not a recommendation, just a statement of fact). I am pleased with my saw including the motor choice but I learned it really does not function well with full kerf blades. I had other 110V saws (3) that were not that sensitive. But I can cut 3 inches deep in softwood, haven't tried deep cuts in hardwood that I remember, with an all around 40 tooth Freud Fusion. Didn't even have to switch to the thin kerf ripping blade I also have. With a full kerf, even a Freud 24 tooth made the saw struggle a little. If I pushed it, the motor's thermal overload would trip. I haven't hit it yet with a thin kerf on the saw. I also have the 36 inch rip capacity with the better fence and really recommend that. I use a track saw for anything bigger - and probably would even if I had space for a 52 inch fence. Just much nicer to move the saw rather than the wood when the workpiece is big.

[Frederick Skelly]

I liked the safety feature, but is it worth the extra $1000?

If you can afford the $1000, I'd say it is worth it. I mean, how much would an accident cost you in pain, loss of function and out of pocket medical? But if you can't swing it, then you live without it. YMMV.
Fred

[Wes Grass]

Todd:

I liked the safety feature, but is it worth the extra $1000? Thanks Brian


Obviously a personal decision.

When I bought my Felder in '08, if they'd had a 'Sawstop' type option for it, and it was $1500, I probably would have ordered it.

[Curt Putnam]

I, too, am looking for a saw. In terms of Sawstop, someone said their patent expires this year. If true, then you know Papa Griz is waiting to jump. Sawstop will cost you an additional $115+ to run a dado set. Sawstop limits you on the size and types of blades you can run. That said, if you can afford it, that is the way to go.

The Griz 1023 looks to be a solid machine. After having lived with a Ridgid contractor machine, I know for sure that I want real cabinet mounted trunnions and I want steel fence rails rather than something that I will forever live in fear of bumping into and bending.

[Bruce King]

I have 1.75 now and it is plenty for me. Do you get better features by going to 3hp?
Most have more features and capability but also it holds more value when sold.

[richard poitras]

The Fusion F1 looked kind cheap on the video watch when they turn the height knob as it wobbles. And a aluminum guild rail for the fence seems okay but getting into those numbers I feel there are better options. I have a 18’’ Laguna band saw and it’s a great saw so the Laguna name is not a problem for me but like most tool company’s there are something’s better and some no so much. I think one of the Grizzly’s saws would be a better choice in what seems to me your price range. … Just my option.

[Todd Trebuna]

Todd:

I liked the safety feature, but is it worth the extra $1000? Thanks Brian


I understand. I looked at several saws, including the Jet Proshop II, Laguna and Powermatic. I had a Hitachi C10Fl, that I recently sold. About a year ago, I was cutting sled runners and the cut off, kicked back and caught me on the thumb, which was holding the pushstick. It cost me 7 stitches but no movement. That's my first tablesaw injury in the past 20 years of woodworking(That resulted in an ER visit). But it did get me thinking. How much are my fingers worth? I guess nobody knows until they don't have them, but I'm getting older and I don't plan on buying another table saw, probably for the rest of my life. It's not a great safety feature with a mediocre saw, it's a great saw with a great safety feature. And I need my fingers to do my day to day job. In the end, I decided it was worth it to me.

[glenn bradley]

I ran a 1.75 HP Craftsman 22124 for years and would probably still be but for a Saw Stop PCS 3HP following me home. The 22124 did all I asked of it but the power and confidence behind the next tier machine is undeniable.

[Brian Runau]

I ran a 1.75 HP Craftsman 22124 for years and would probably still be but for a Saw Stop PCS 3HP following me home. The 22124 did all I asked of it but the power and confidence behind the next tier machine is undeniable.

Finally got mine tuned up. I took the top completely off and reassembled it. Worked, but no idea what was wrong in getting it square to the blade. Brian

[glenn bradley]

Finally got mine tuned up. I took the top completely off and reassembled it. Worked, but no idea what was wrong in getting it square to the blade. Brian


That's great. I may have mentioned elsewhere that I am running my old 22124 right now while between shops. I am running full kerf blades off a typical shared garage outlet without issue. I do have the little 1HP bagger DC I am using running on a different circuit. The Biesemeyer fence is so reliable. I trust it implicitly. I have it in the stock 30" position but, moved the tube over one row of holes to get 40" back in the day.

450394

[Bryan Lisowski]

Harvey?

Thanks.

Scroll down to see the 3-4 table saw options. https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/all

[Brian Runau]

That's great. I may have mentioned elsewhere that I am running my old 22124 right now while between shops. I am running full kerf blades off a typical shared garage outlet without issue. I do have the little 1HP bagger DC I am using running on a different circuit. The Biesemeyer fence is so reliable. I trust it implicitly. I have it in the stock 30" position but, moved the tube over one row of holes to get 40" back in the

450394

I am having trouble getting it to true 90. I looked the shaft collar inside the housing around the shaft foot the tilt. I had the top off and cleanened all the gears and stops. Used lube spray, but still just shy of true 90 when the handle is tight. Not sure what else to look at? Thanks brian

[Carl Crout]

I, too, am looking for a saw. In terms of Sawstop, someone said their patent expires this year. If true, then you know Papa Griz is waiting to jump. Sawstop will cost you an additional $115+ to run a dado set. Sawstop limits you on the size and types of blades you can run. That said, if you can afford it, that is the way to go.

The Griz 1023 looks to be a solid machine. After having lived with a Ridgid contractor machine, I know for sure that I want real cabinet mounted trunnions and I want steel fence rails rather than something that I will forever live in fear of bumping into and bending.
Sawstop patents start expiring this year. I understand they have several. I am hoping that someone else comes out with the same finger saving system that doesn't destroy a blade and cartridge. At that time I would take a look at it.

[Justin Rapp]

Sawstop patents start expiring this year. I understand they have several. I am hoping that someone else comes out with the same finger saving system that doesn't destroy a blade and cartridge. At that time I would take a look at it.

Actually the blade dropping down into the table should really be enough to get the blade away from your hand. Maybe the drop is not as fast as the brake cartridge stopping the blade.

[Danny Nevala]

The Grizzly 1023 series looked good to me as well. Last week I inquired as to when they would be back in stock, and Grizzly told me late September. So, I started researching Harvey saws.

[Tim Janssen]

If you send the defective blade brake cartridge to SawStop they will send you a new cartridge for free.
Cheers

Tim

[Andy D Jones]

Actually the blade dropping down into the table should really be enough to get the blade away from your hand. Maybe the drop is not as fast as the brake cartridge stopping the blade.

Actually, IINM, the SS brake, along with the angular momentum of the blade and spindle, is what lowers the blade below the table when it triggers. No brake, no lowering.

I would prefer a brake that only requires replacing the brake cartridge, not the blade, and CERTAINLY not both! Not having to swap cartridges to run a dado blade would be good, and fixing the limitation (insufficient spindle strength) on the dado blade limitation (no solid chippers) would be on the list.

Maybe once they have some competition, SS will address some of these issues. Competition is what brings innovation, not ridiculously broadly interpreted patent laws that prevent it. There is no "fair market value" assessed for patented technology, leaving the holder able to hold off competing and even superior solutions, by setting the licensing price high enough to prevent others from adopting and improving it.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[glenn bradley]

I am having trouble getting it to true 90. I looked the shaft collar inside the housing around the shaft foot the tilt. I had the top off and cleanened all the gears and stops. Used lube spray, but still just shy of true 90 when the handle is tight. Not sure what else to look at? Thanks brian


There is an adjustable stop for 90 and 45. I keep mine backed off so I go a degree or so past. I do not trust stops for accuracy. If your saw is a 22124 I can post a page out of the manual showing the locations.

[Leo Butler]

There is an adjustable stop for 90 and 45.
Brian, as you probably know these stops are in the tabletop. I bought a 22114 a couple of months ago (thanks again for the info, Glenn) and as you I tore into it and cleaned everything up. I found that the stops are unreliable, as you can apply enough force against the stops to deflect the cabinet sides. So trying to use the stops as true, calibrated 45 and 90 references is somewhat futile. I think you'll find that if you back off the stops a bit you'll hit your angle without issue.

Make sure the stop collar on the angle adjustment shaft keeps the worm gear from having any backlash. Otherwise the angle can move on you a bit even after you tighten the handle.

[Brian Runau]

There is an adjustable stop for 90 and 45. I keep mine backed off so I go a degree or so past. I do not trust stops for accuracy. If your saw is a 22124 I can post a page out of the manual showing the locations.

Glenn, it is. I tried adjusting the stops on the warm gear, but maybe I adjusted it bass awards. Please post info and your suggestion to give it more play so I can get to 90. I appreciate the help. Brian