Drywall repair over metal or plastic brackets

[Stephen Tashiro]

Some electrical boxes (like https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-21-cu-in-New-Work-Non-Metallic-Electrical-Wall-Box-with-Adjustable-Bracket-B121ADJ-40R/202077339 ) are attached to studs with a metal or plastic bracket that fits over the face of the stud. When drywall is removed from a stud in order to install the bracket, what's the best way to repair the drywall?

I suppose a sufficiently skilled person could smoothly "plaster" over the bracket with quick setting joint compound. Another thought would be to use a small patch of drywall which has had some of its back scraped off to compensate for the thickness of the bracket.

[Doug Garson]

How about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygqv8_dR6q4

[Stephen Tashiro]

How about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygqv8_dR6q4

Good idea. I like that guy's work and I've watched a lot of his videos, including that one.

[Tom M King]

I wouldn't repair drywall unless absolutely necessary. I'm not getting a full picture of what you're trying to do, but if you're just installing a box, I'd use an Old Work box. I use the heavy duty ones all the time. If you carefully cut the hole, there is no drywall repair needed. I keep a piece of plywood the exact size for the cutout, to mark by, and use a handle that holds a down-cut jig saw blade. A drop of oil on the screws makes the little flip up keepers behave better at installation.

I like this kind better than the cheaper, flimsier ones.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-18-cu-in-Old-Work-PVC-Heavy-Wall-Electrical-Switch-and-Outlet-Box-BH118R/100154882

[Frank Pratt]

Not understanding why you'd use the box with an external mounting bracket. An old work box is a better choice, or if you can cut the hole right next to a stud, then just fasten the box with screws through the side of the box into the stud. Personally, I don't care for using old work boxes unless I have to.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Not understanding why you'd use the box with an external mounting bracket. An old work box is a better choice, or if you can cut the hole right next to a stud, then just fasten the box with screws through the side of the box into the stud. Personally, I don't care for using old work boxes unless I have to.

The house in question has 1/2 inch thick drywall. I don't like old work boxes set in drywall that thin - too flimsy. There's going to be lots of drywall repair anyway, so I'm not focused on avoiding drywall work.

True, one can cut out enough drywall around the stud to have room to screw a new work box into the side of the stud. I sometimes do that, but when replacing an old box the basic hole is already there, so all that needs to be done for the bracket type is to chisel away a little drywall off the face of the stud. Also, the type with a bracket are easy to adjust so they sit even with the face of the drywall.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Lay the drywall over the box and rotozip the hole, or use a keyhole saw. Or measure the drywall and carefully mark the location of the box and cut with a keyhole saw, then re-attach. Or use a jig to mark the corners of the box like this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Calculated-Industries-Blind-Mark-Drywall-Electrical-Box-Locating-Tool-Kit-4-Pieces-BMWK/100529468?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D22-G-D22-22_12_GYPSUM-NA-NA-Feed-SMART-NA-NA-New_Engen&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D22-G-D22-22_12_GYPSUM-NA-NA-Feed-SMART-NA-NA-New_Engen-71700000076048521-58700006492368438-92700058650472926&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0rSABhDlARIsAJtjfCd3JGCH9qAK_-M6R0gWjoWogBcMCGh_NW9WP2DeCMG3LDit8ZQfQKEaAnNoEALw _wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Tom M King]

Look at those heavy duty old work boxes the next time you're in the electrical aisle in a box store. They're really okay. The material is reinforced with glass fibers, and they maintain their shape, much different than the cheap ones.

I've used almost nothing else for at least a decade, and a half. When I was building new houses, the boxes were installed when the wall material went up. Yes, my method was not only fine with the inspector, but he liked it so much that he said he was going to use the same method on an addition he was building on his house.

I used wide casings in my spec houses, and these boxes allowed me to put light switches away from the casings enough so they didn't look bad, as well as locate them in symmetrical locations, relative to other parts, like windows.

They automatically hold the box perfectly flush with the surface of the wall, so the devices can be pulled up tight, and not slide around on the wall.

There is a small piece of plywood kept in my Electrical tool box for marking the hole. Using the right tool, you can cut a perfectly neat, and tight fitting hole, without damaging the sheetrock. They also allowed me to center the box in any wood parts, like V-joint paneling. Whenever it was that I started using them, I've never wanted to use anything else. They come in multiple, and deep sizes too.

[Jim Becker]

The house in question has 1/2 inch thick drywall. I don't like old work boxes set in drywall that thin - too flimsy. There's going to be lots of drywall repair anyway, so I'm not focused on avoiding drywall work.

True, one can cut out enough drywall around the stud to have room to screw a new work box into the side of the stud. I sometimes do that, but when replacing an old box the basic hole is already there, so all that needs to be done for the bracket type is to chisel away a little drywall off the face of the stud. Also, the type with a bracket are easy to adjust so they sit even with the face of the drywall.

My suggestion then would be to remove a longer strip of drywall over the stud so you can fasten it back properly with screws and then do the mud work. Trying to fill larger gaps with "stuff" invariably may not give you the best surface in my experience. because even "non-shrinking stuff" still seems to shrink. Using a longer strip lets you bed it in, tape it and feather the mud properly.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Look at those heavy duty old work boxes the next time you're in the electrical aisle in a box store. They're really okay.

The boxes themselves are sturdy. It's the old drywall around the old work boxes that I don't trust.

[Tom M King]

Once the hole is cut, there should be enough room to reach in, and glue a piece of wood to the sheetrock with Powergrab. If you fumble one inside the wall, and it drops, it won't matter.

[Charlie Velasquez]

They make boxes that are combination old/new work that screw into studs... just like pocket screws.
NEC allows interior fasteners as long as the wire is protected from the heads. These are recessed in the integrated countersink.

450380


This is one brand. 22.5 cu.in. so can hold gfci or electronic timers or stuff. About $2/box but less expensive than patch and paint.
There are also some where the screw/countersink assembly is disjoint from the box in slots, allowing for adjustment of depth, both initially and should you ever add paneling or whatever, although the one pictured can be removed and reinstalled if need be.

[Jim Becker]

They make boxes that are combination old/new work that screw into studs... just like pocket screws.
NEC allows interior fasteners as long as the wire is protected from the heads. These are recessed in the integrated countersink.

450380


This is one brand. 22.5 cu.in. so can hold gfci or electronic timers or stuff. About $2/box but less expensive than patch and paint.


I thought there was something like that! I'd go for that for an old work box being mounted at a stud location!

[Frank Pratt]

They make boxes that are combination old/new work that screw into studs... just like pocket screws.
NEC allows interior fasteners as long as the wire is protected from the heads. These are recessed in the integrated countersink.

450380


This is one brand. 22.5 cu.in. so can hold gfci or electronic timers or stuff. About $2/box but less expensive than patch and paint.
There are also some where the screw/countersink assembly is disjoint from the box in slots, allowing for adjustment of depth, both initially and should you ever add paneling or whatever, although the one pictured can be removed and reinstalled if need be.

This. I know you're doing other drywall repairs, but why make more work for yourself?

[Stephen Tashiro]

There are also some where the screw/countersink assembly is disjoint from the box in slots, allowing for adjustment of depth, both initially and should you ever add paneling or whatever, although the one pictured can be removed and reinstalled if need be.

Very good idea! Do you have a brand name or a link to the kind with the disjoint assembly?

[Stephen Tashiro]

Once the hole is cut, there should be enough room to reach in, and glue a piece of wood to the sheetrock with Powergrab. If you fumble one inside the wall, and it drops, it won't matter.

Patching over a bracket is the situation in my original post, not patching a hole, but I agree that gluing wood backing to support a patch for a hole is often effective. When the back of the drywall is dusty, sometimes adhesive doesn't stick to it. I've also tried attaching wood backing to the drywall with drywall screws - work's well when you can hold the wood steady while driving in the screws. I've also tried using drywall clips ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GDD1P8O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) and they are effective on drywall that is in good condition. A drawback of clips is that I have to order them. Local stores only sell them in expensive "hole patching kits" that contain only a few clips.

[Charlie Velasquez]

Very good idea! Do you have a brand name or a link to the kind with the disjoint assembly?

https://www.alliedmoulded.com/residential/sliderbox/

Not sure of the price.

450420


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sliderbox-Single-Gang-Slider-Box-Horizontal-RSB-1H/311531567
A horizontal model 1-gang.

450446





Patching over a bracket is the situation in my original post, not patching a hole, but I agree that gluing wood backing to support a patch for a hole is often effective. When the back of the drywall is dusty, sometimes adhesive doesn't stick to it. I've also tried attaching wood backing to the drywall with drywall screws - work's well when you can hold the wood steady while driving in the screws. I've also tried using drywall clips ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GDD1P8O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) and they are effective on drywall that is in good condition. A drawback of clips is that I have to order them. Local stores only sell them in expensive "hole patching kits" that contain only a few clips.

Also works well for reinforcing the drywall to address your concern. Generous amount of white glue, a 6” length of a painter’s stir stick, couple of office bulldog clips as clamps. It’s like adding a 1.5” x 6” washer behind the drywall. Still thin enough to use the flappers to secure the box, but strong enough to secure a box using its plaster ears and #6 screws if you want.

[Frank Pratt]

Up here in the frozen north, steel boxes are still very popular & preferred by most electricians. Steel boxes take a lot more abuse and fewer issues with stripped screw lugs. I seems like in the US plastic boxes are most common. The one place where plastic boxes have the advantage is with sealing in exterior walls. I've used both & personally much prefer the steel boxes.

The 2104 is a 2" x 3" welded box that is excellent for use in old work. They can easily be screwed to a stud through the side. If no stud is in the desired location, I glue a short length of 2x2 to the back of the drywall & secure the box to it. The nice thing about the 2104 is that it only needs a 2" x 3" hole, with leaves a large safety margin for sloppy cutting or torn paper. Less patching with them.