I got my first spokeshave, and I can't get it to cut...

[John Serna]

Hey all. I got an old Stanley 151 in the mail. I tuned it up. Did like 200 passes on the coarse diamond stone, and did the same all through the other grades to fine. Then the strop.

Pretty standard. So I think the blade is sharp enough to cut, but when using it I'm still getting a lot of chatter on my maple. It cuts okay on softer wood.

I skewed the blade a bit because I saw Paul Sellers mention this. It somewhat helped.

The biggest problem is on very hard wood like maple, I am getting all chatter with dust instead of shaving. Any idea what it could be? Would photos help? I can take some tomorrow.

Thanks!

[John Keeton]

I assume you have the blade in correctly - bevel to the rear? You may have too much blade exposed. Wrong angle on the blade - 30* works for me. The bed for the blade could need flattened. The cap iron could be maladjusted. Just some thoughts.

[John Serna]

The bed for the blade could need flattened. The cap iron could be maladjusted.

Thanks, John.
Is the bed the same as the sole? I did flatten the sole, which I forgot to mention above.
How should the screw on the cap iron be set? Should it be flush against the blade or out a bit?

[Scott Winners]

I have a different spoke shave than that one, but I often find when I am getting chatter I am taking too much of a cut. You did mention it was cutting OK in softer wood.

I did internet search for images to be sure, but similar to my spokeshave you have a bevel down plane with a very short sole. I have a very similar model from Veritas.

I would suggest cutting a half circle onto the end of a 2x4 with whatever saw you have handy and get to know the tool, they are a lot of fun when they are dialed in. You could even start working the corner of a 2x4 in your vise to make the roundover bigger. If they aren't fun to use it is usually because they have dull edges, or maybe a blob of something on the bedding surface the iron rests on (like a frog on a Bailey) or just not adjusted correctly for the current cut. Besides twisting the handles to skew the cutting edge in the cut, you can also use the two adjusting nuts on the threaded rods to skew the iron in the mouth.

My spokeshave (I only have one) is very sensitive to grain direction. It just will not cut uphill. If I need to take off a lot of material I use a draw knife or a chisel to get close and then clean up with the spokeshave.

Also, when you have a uniform surface on a coarse stone you probably can get by with a lot fewer strokes on the finer stones as you work your way up your grits. Once I have an iron uniform on my coarse stone usually 15-20 strokes on 600 grit will get rid of the marks from my coarse (300 grit stone), and then maybe 20-25 strokes at 1000 grit to clean up from the 600, etc.

Good luck and welcome.

[Jim Koepke]

I am getting all chatter with dust instead of shaving. Any idea what it could be? Would photos help? I can take some tomorrow.

Part of the problem with images is you can post them but you can not see them until you pay $6 to become a contributor.


Is the bed the same as the sole?

No, the bed is the part of the spokeshave upon which the blade lies.

The blade should be checked to make sure it is flat from side to side and end to end before making any corrections to the bed or lever cap.

If the spoke shave is held up aimed at a light source in a way to look between the bed and the blade with the cap tight, there should be no light seen between the bed and the blade or the cap and the blade. Being careful with a thin file it should be easy to work down any high spots if needed.

Setting the spokeshave flat on a surface and resting the blade on the surface while the cap is tightened seems to be too much blade extension for me. My small wooden mallet is about 7" long with a hardwood head about 1" round by about 2" long. Light taps on each handle will retract the blade if the cap screw is a hair loose.

Oops! Just realized the OP has a #151 with blade adjusters. No need for a hammer to set the blade. Only two of my shaves are modern enough to have this feature.

Often my spokeshaves are held at an angle to the work while using a slicing motion to reduce chatter or roughness.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

John, If you can post some images it might be helpful to show some of your shavings from softer wood to see how thick your shavings are.

To help hold the blades when sharpening my trick was to make a holder with a 1/4" thick piece of oak with a screw, nut and a washer so it is easier to control the small blade.

Here are a couple of images for others to see and for you to see if you decide to become a contributor.

450065

This shows what it should NOT look like when looking at a light source through the unit. This one also had a line of light between the blade and the bed.

Softwood end grain is a good test of sharpness:

450066

These shavings are very thin. Softwood end grain will often separate, leaving gaps, with a dull blade whether with a plane, a shave or a chisel.

That shave is a #63 with a rounded sole.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

Been there. A couple comments:

Just when you think you're sharp, you're not. Double check your edge.

Is the blade oriented properly? It will install upside down and if done it make a scraper that just chatters and makes dust. Since it cuts on soft wood I'm guessing this is not the case.

Set the shave for a fine cut. Really fine.

Maple is a bear to work with, and especially so against the grain. Try the cut from the other direction and see what happens.

[Frederick Skelly]

Been there. A couple comments:

Just when you think you're sharp, you're not. Double check your edge.

Set the shave for a fine cut. Really fine.

Maple is a bear to work with, and especially so against the grain. Try the cut from the other direction and see what happens.

My thoughts exactly - sharpness, depth and direction.

[Robert Engel]

I am certainly no spokeshave expert, what I've found is there is a bit of a learning curve to spoke shaves & they are a bit tricky re: honing, blade depth and ergonomics. It helps starting out on an edge of some soft wood 1/2 - 3/4" thick to help get the mechanics down. How you hold it it important too. Against intuiting, but not only by the handles, with your thumbs pressing either side of the iron lowers the center of gravity and gives more control over the tilt. Short firm strokes work best for me.

That said, honing can be a bit tricky too. The big issue is keeping the angle consistent. AFAIK, you just about have to sharpen them freehand, maybe they will fit a certain type jig. I know some people make a holder which helps keep the angle more consistent.

[Tom M King]

Not sharp enough, and too big of a bite.

[ken hatch]

John, If you can post some images it might be helpful to show some of your shavings from softer wood to see how thick your shavings are.

To help hold the blades when sharpening my trick was to make a holder with a 1/4" thick piece of oak with a screw, nut and a washer so it is easier to control the small blade.

Here are a couple of images for others to see and for you to see if you decide to become a contributor.



This shows what it should NOT look like when looking at a light source through the unit. This one also had a line of light between the blade and the bed.

Softwood end grain is a good test of sharpness:

450066

These shavings are very thin. Softwood end grain will often separate, leaving gaps, with a dull blade whether with a plane, a shave or a chisel.

That shave is a #63 with a rounded sole.

jtk

Jim,

Show off :D. That's a nice sharp, well set shave.

ken

[ken hatch]

I am certainly no spokeshave expert, what I've found is there is a bit of a learning curve to spoke shaves & they are a bit tricky re: honing, blade depth and ergonomics. It helps starting out on an edge of some soft wood 1/2 - 3/4" thick to help get the mechanics down. How you hold it it important too. Against intuiting, but not only by the handles, with your thumbs pressing either side of the iron lowers the center of gravity and gives more control over the tilt. Short firm strokes work best for me.

That said, honing can be a bit tricky too. The big issue is keeping the angle consistent. AFAIK, you just about have to sharpen them freehand, maybe they will fit a certain type jig. I know some people make a holder which helps keep the angle more consistent.


Robert,

If you have a Tormek or a Tormek bar set up on your grinder the Small Knife jig works great for grinding most shave cutters. BTW, the same knife jig or the large one can work well on draw knives. There are a couple of other Tormek jigs that make having either a Tormek or just the Tormek bar on your grinder worth having. One that is very handy, I believe it is called a small tool holder, is great for reproducing the curve on outcannel gouges.

ken

[John Serna]

Thanks, guys!

I will look into all the recommendations today and see if it improves the situation. My guess is maybe that bed is not flat, and maybe it's not sharp enough (I did so many passes!)...

Oh, one other thing I noticed: it's cutting more on the edges when it does cut. I rounded those off with a file. But it still seems to want to cut there. The center of the blade produces no shavings. I thought this meant the blade had a curve to it, so I tried flattening it, and then resharpening it, but it still does this. So when I do get shavings they are on the edges...

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks, guys!

I will look into all the recommendations today and see if it improves the situation. My guess is maybe that bed is not flat, and maybe it's not sharp enough (I did so many passes!)...

Oh, one other thing I noticed: it's cutting more on the edges when it does cut. I rounded those off with a file. But it still seems to want to cut there. The center of the blade produces no shavings. I thought this meant the blade had a curve to it, so I tried flattening it, and then resharpening it, but it still does this. So when I do get shavings they are on the edges...

Check the blades edge with a square or straight edge. Check the sole of the spokeshave for any convexity. Some of the planes that have come my way have had this from previous owner's lapping gone wrong.

jtk

[John Keeton]

I would suggest you make sure the sole is flat. Lay a piece of 220 sandpaper on a dead flat surface and rub the sole on it to flatten it. Move up to 320 and 400 to finish the surface. The edge of the blade should be straight across and preferably at a 90* angle to the sides, though that isn’t as critical as it being straight across - level. You shouldn’t ever need to round over anything if it is properly tuned and handled correctly. It may be that the bed is not flat and tightening the cap iron is bowing the blade. You may want to start from scratch and retune the shave. Paul Sellers has a good article on it - https://paulsellers.com/2014/07/final-on-151-spokeshave-restorative-work-series-maybe/

[John Serna]

I would suggest you make sure the sole is flat. Lay a piece of 220 sandpaper on a dead flat surface and rub the sole on it to flatten it. Move up to 320 and 400 to finish the surface. The edge of the blade should be straight across and preferably at a 90* angle to the sides, though that isn’t as critical as it being straight across - level. You shouldn’t ever need to round over anything if it is properly tuned and handled correctly. It may be that the bed is not flat and tightening the cap iron is bowing the blade. You may want to start from scratch and retune the shave. Paul Sellers has a good article on it - https://paulsellers.com/2014/07/final-on-151-spokeshave-restorative-work-series-maybe/


The sole is flat, but I will recheck the blade itself.

Paul Sellers has a video where he says to round the sides of the blade so they don't catch on material "greater than 2 inches", and since that's where mine was catching I rounded them.
I wonder if part of the issues as well is that the piece of maple I'm trying to shave is wide. Should the material being cut be smaller in width than the spokeshave's blade?

I'm actually pretty new to woodworking, having just started the hobby during the pandemic. So I apologize if that's a stupid question.

[Scott Winners]

The sole is flat, but I will recheck the blade itself.

I'm actually pretty new to woodworking, having just started the hobby during the pandemic. So I apologize if that's a stupid question.

There are no stupid questions. Paying members can see that you just joined this month and only have 15 posts here so far. And sometimes folks with 20 years experience making cabinets decide to build a guitar. Maple is tricky. I repeat my suggestion you get the thing dialed in on something easy to work, like soft pine, before going back to the maple.

[Prashun Patel]

I would post some pictures. I suspect your problem is something to non intuitive.

Sharp doesn’t sound like your problem. I suspect the blade geometry is compromised.


It could also just be that your technique needs work. It gets easy eventually, but the sole should not rock through the stroke. That’s hard to do starting out.

[John Keeton]

John, although I have been woodworking for over 50 years, my use of spokeshaves was sporadic until I recently embarked on building Windsor chairs. I am now on number 5 and feel like I have used my drawknives and spokeshaves on miles and miles of white oak as well as some minimal work on poplar and maple. I am sure it wasn't that much, but the massive pile of shavings I removed from my shop on multiple occasions would seem to disagree!

Paul Sellers is a consummate woodworker and I would never question his methods. However, for the work I do there are other tools that I prefer on flat wide material - planes, etc. The spokeshave is a wonderful tool. It cannot be surpassed, in my opinion, for the type of work I do on the chairs. All of the oak parts require the use of it, as well as portions of the seat. However, even on the crest rails of the comb backs, which exceed 2 inches, one is working on a profiled surface and rarely is taking a full width shaving with the spokeshave. A well tuned spokeshave can literally fly through finishing up the spindles and other oak parts.

I have too many, but seem to acquire more when I find them worth the money. But, like a hand plane and most other handtools, one will never get good performance from them unless they are meticulously tuned. It really doesn't take more than an hour to fully tune a spokeshave and the results will pay dividends.

I am sure most all of us have our favorites. Aside from the Boggs shaves I have (the best in my experience for fine finishing), I prefer the No. 52 shaves. The straight handles are more in line with the body, a design feature shared by the Boggs and probably not by accident. I find them easier to control. I have used 151s, a lot actually, in the beginning of my chair venture. They are probably the favored Stanley shave, but I find them a little more touchy to use than the 52 - both because of the added weight and the gull wing handles. The 51 is a nice shave, as well, but again it has the gull wing handles. On the 151, while it is adjustable, I actually prefer having 2-3 shaves all set to a different depth of cut than adjusting them. Of course, one can adjust the 51 and 52, as well as some of the others, by tapping the handles to extend or retract the blade.

You will get the hang of this, and I am confident you will enjoy the experience - once you get the shave properly functioning and practice your technique. It requires a relatively light touch and you must "feel" how the shave is working. If you are putting a lot of force into your cuts, then either the blade is dull, your hold is wrong, or you are cutting uphill on the wood.

[Jim Koepke]

John, your profile doesn't indicate your location. You may live near another member who would be willing to spend some time with you to get your spokeshave skills off to a good start.

jtk

[John Serna]

John, your profile doesn't indicate your location. You may live near another member who would be willing to spend some time with you to get your spokeshave skills off to a good start.

jtk


Ah, good point! I live in Colorado. Anyone? : D

[John Keeton]

Ah, good point! I live in Colorado. Anyone? : DWhile not the biggest, CO is a relatively large state. Might be more helpful if you could narrow it down a bit - and, add it to your profile so you won't be asked anymore. Really, the $6 a year it takes to be a contributor is cheap for the privileges afforded. You should consider it.

[Jim Koepke]

My feeling on this is if someone in Colorado was willing to offer help it would be on John to pay at least the first visit.

One of my friends met because he saw my posts here on SMC. He lives across the river from me in Oregon. Funny he couldn't log in so he found my number and called me on the phone. Haven't seen him since before the pandemic. He is in St Helens where there are also some of my favorite antique shops for tool hunting. We went rust hunting in a store he didn't know about. He handed me a Stanley #60-1/2 with a SW Hart blade and asked my opinion:

450118

My opinion was at $25 it was a good deal. He wasn't interested so it came home with me. Funny how it would have likely been purchased by someone else if it weren't for paying him a visit that day and going on a rust hunt.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I find it difficult to hold small blades at a consistent angle. For spokeshave blades, I use a hardwood "ring clamp" made for jeweler's.

https://www.riogrande.com/Product/Hardwood-Ring-Clamp/113105

*****

I was taught to set the blade at a skew : with one side beneath the sole, the other higher (proud) so that a range of shavings could be taken.

The more the blade sticks out, the thicker the cut.

Some shaves have a narrow range of "attack angle" where the blade will engage the surface.

If you roll your wrists while drawing it toward you, you should feel the blade "catch".

[John Keeton]

I have the LN honing guide/jig and the long jaws. Works very well for spokeshave blades.

[Rob Luter]

I have the LN honing guide/jig and the long jaws. Works very well for spokeshave blades.

Agreed. I was never able to sharpen a shave properly until I got mine.

[Robert Engel]

Sorry I don't have (no ever will own) a Tormek. :-(

John, when you mentioned 2" wide material, I immediately said "aha". Spokeshaving material wider than the blade is challenging and the spokeshave has to be set up perfectly and very, very sharp.

Practice on something like 1/2 -3/4" wide material I'm sure you're going to see a difference.

It sounded to me like the blade wasn't flat since it wasn't cutting in the middle?

[anne watson]

Remember spokeshaves are mostly used on small stock.. Try cutting on a corner to create a bevel on soft wood like a 2 by 4. that will get you started or taking the bark off a tree.

[John Serna]

Sorry I don't have (no ever will own) a Tormek. :-(

John, when you mentioned 2" wide material, I immediately said "aha". Spokeshaving material wider than the blade is challenging and the spokeshave has to be set up perfectly and very, very sharp.

Practice on something like 1/2 -3/4" wide material I'm sure you're going to see a difference.

It sounded to me like the blade wasn't flat since it wasn't cutting in the middle?


It's been too cold in the garage to practice the past few days, so I've made no progress, but later this week I will try narrower material like you suggest.
I was cutting into 4 inch wide maple, so that could definitely be the problem. Does the material generally have to be narrower than the blade? I will try that - maybe just turn this piece of maple on its side (1/2 inch) and see how it cuts. Thanks!

I think I'll go through the entire tuning process again, too, to make sure the blade is flat. It's strange it was cutting on the sides only.

[John Keeton]

Interestingly, they are called "spokeshaves" and not "boardshaves.":rolleyes: Perhaps because their original use was to shape wagon spokes and other round spindle stock. They certainly can be used for narrow flat work, but quite often that is to produce a curve in the edge as opposed to getting it flat and straight.

[Jim Koepke]

This just came in an emailed news letter > https://www.finewoodworking.com/2021/01/25/spokeshave-tips-to-get-started

It might be worth a quick read.

jtk