Best practices for trimming a pocket door: craftsmanship vs. practicality

[Ken Cobbing]

Hi all,

I am currently trimming out a couple of new pocket doors I've installed with frames made by Johnson (model 1500HD). They used to be made with steel-wrapped wood studs, but they have recently changed to all-steel studs. This has changed some aspects of the installation because you are now attaching drywall and trim to metal rather than wood.

For installing the trim: Johnson's instructions state that you should attach the split header trim with screws on the lock lever side in order to provide access to the header in case service is needed in the future. They also state that you should install the split jamb trim with screws on both sides. They do not state how one should install the door casing to the steel studs, but it would seem that you would again need to use screws for the steel stud split jamb side.

In practical terms, using the provided #6 trim-head TEK screws would in fact allow for future adjustments or door removal without a lot of destruction - but only if the trim-head screws are left exposed. In terms of craftsmanship, leaving exposed screw heads is unacceptable (particularly the provided screws, which are black, on white trim).

How would you all deal with this issue of craftsmanship vs. practicality? I could side with craftsmanship and cover the screw heads with wood filler and paint at the expense of practicality; future adjustments would require gouging out the wood filler to access the screw heads (and would also require the worker knowing that screws were used rather than the default assumption of nails). I can't bring myself to side with practicality and leave the provided black trim screws exposed, but I could obtain some white trim screws that would blend in a bit more - but at the distinct expense of craftsmanship.

Thanks for reading :)

[Jim Becker]

White plastic plugs for the screw holes will serve the need to hide the screws while allowing for future access if necessary. If you seat the plugs carefully, they will not be a major visual feature for most human beings. "You" might see them readily because that's normal, but they will go unnoticed otherwise.

[John TenEyck]

I would seat the screws deep enough to putty over them. I have lots of pocket doors in my house. In 40 years (wow, I'm getting old) the only time I've ever had to remove the trim was when I remodeled the room and replaced the door. Make it look good - and don't worry about it.

John

[Mark Woodmark]

I would seat the screws deep enough to putty over them. I have lots of pocket doors in my house. In 40 years (wow, I'm getting old) the only time I've ever had to remove the trim was when I remodeled the room and replaced the door. Make it look good - and don't worry about it.

John

I have worked on quite a few pocket doors. Most did not have the trim installed so it could be removed easily (trim screws). Most were fairly new houses that have settled. They don't build houses like they used to. Construction lumber is not as good as it used to be. If you putty over the screw holes and work on it yourself sometime in the future, you may regret the putty. If you hire someone to work on it, unless you request he dig out the putty, he may not waste the time or you will get charged more.
I am no fan of pocket doors. They compromise the integrity of the wall. I don't care what the manufacturer says about that. Sorry, not sure I believe the 40 year thing. The rollers probably wouldn't roll smooth for that many years.
My thought is unlike a fiberglass entry door with plastic plugs, I feel that plastic plugs in wood will fail eventually as wood expands and contracts with the seasons.
If I absolutely had to have a pocket door, I would try to build my own wall for it. Unfortunately it would be thicker than a standard wall. At least then I could whack the wall with my hand and it would not vibrate and rattle

[Paul F Franklin]

I use the trim head screws, countersunk 1/8 or 3/16 and then use the wax putty used for furniture repair to fill in the countersinks. You can find or make an excellent color match with the putty kits so they don't stand out, but anyone looking to remove the jambs or trim to effect a repair can easily identify the fasteners, and the wax putty is easier to remove than hardening putty.

That said, I've always used the heavy duty Johnson pocket door kits and I've never had to pull one for repair yet.

BTW, I always use solid core slabs for pocket doors; they give a much more "quality" feel to the doors, and they are much better at blocking sound from places like bathrooms or lavs were pocket doors are often found. You do need to upgrade the hardware to allow for the extra weight.

And I custom make grooved thresholds for the bottom where the door slides in the grooved area. This also helps block sound. The threshold is attached with screws like the jambs (and wax puttied) for ease of removal to redo floors or whatever.

[Mike Kees]

I have installed and played with/adjusted 100's of pocket doors in the last 25 or so years. I have never liked them, but figured out how to work with the design to make them work. Not looking forward to playing with this new design. On one condo project that I worked as a finish carpenter on we had 2 pocket doors in every unit. About halfway through the job a new finish guy started. One day he came to me ad wanted my help with a pocket door that would not open, he had cased the door with his finish nailer and pins that were 2'' long . They penetrated into the door itself effectively nailing it open. From that point on I had to trim all the pocket doors as part of my main job of installing all the doors.

[Eric Schmid]

That is a strange change, to eliminate the wood filled steel studs. I can go with the need to screw the split jambs in, but the casing seems odd. Does make me wonder what folks are using on steel stud construction jobs. If you are using a narrow casing you can just nail to the split jamb only.

That said, trim head screws with either putty or plug fill for the screws. I installed four pocket doors in a house last summer, all Johnson HD with the wood fill. The jambs and casings are all varnished and the screw locations do not stand out any more than finish nails. I didn’t have to screw the casings in, however.

I’m curious as I haven’t seen the new all steel studs. Did they use the same steel profile and just omit the wood? Is there an open channel to slide a piece of wood into?

[John TenEyck]

I have worked on quite a few pocket doors. Most did not have the trim installed so it could be removed easily (trim screws). Most were fairly new houses that have settled. They don't build houses like they used to. Construction lumber is not as good as it used to be. If you putty over the screw holes and work on it yourself sometime in the future, you may regret the putty. If you hire someone to work on it, unless you request he dig out the putty, he may not waste the time or you will get charged more.
I am no fan of pocket doors. They compromise the integrity of the wall. I don't care what the manufacturer says about that. Sorry, not sure I believe the 40 year thing. The rollers probably wouldn't roll smooth for that many years.
My thought is unlike a fiberglass entry door with plastic plugs, I feel that plastic plugs in wood will fail eventually as wood expands and contracts with the seasons.
If I absolutely had to have a pocket door, I would try to build my own wall for it. Unfortunately it would be thicker than a standard wall. At least then I could whack the wall with my hand and it would not vibrate and rattle


Well, my house is 60 years old. There are two pocket doors still from the original construction that work as well as when they first were installed. Granted, they don't get used frequently. But I installed one 40 years ago with Johnson HD hardware for a half bath and that one gets used several times per day. It still slides nice and smoothly. I've been in some grand old mansions built a hundred years ago or so with giant pocket doors that slide very well, too. I can't speak for modern construction other than my own and the one I installed works fine. The argument about the strength of the wall being compromised is valid but of no practical importance.

John

[Edwin Santos]

Common installation practice may vary from region to region.
Here in the Southwest, I usually see the top trim for pocket doors caulked and nailed, countersunk and puttied. If the door needs to be adjusted, I usually just cut the caulk and pry off the trim on the inside of the door to access the adjustment bolts. After adjusting, cut the protruding old nails off the piece of trim, and reinstall the same way.
Like others have said, adjustment shouldn't be common, but I do encounter it from time to time. Not because the rollers are not rolling smoothly, but usually because settlement or seasonal change has thrown the travel slightly out of level. Recently I had one like this where the door would not stay open 100% and would persistently slowly roll back to 3/4 open.
IMO the roller systems are so smooth and good now that the door needs to be 100% level or it can ghost roll a bit. Older hardware may have a tiny bit more resistance.

[Ken Cobbing]

I use the trim head screws, countersunk 1/8 or 3/16 and then use the wax putty used for furniture repair to fill in the countersinks. You can find or make an excellent color match with the putty kits so they don't stand out, but anyone looking to remove the jambs or trim to effect a repair can easily identify the fasteners, and the wax putty is easier to remove than hardening putty.

That said, I've always used the heavy duty Johnson pocket door kits and I've never had to pull one for repair yet.

BTW, I always use solid core slabs for pocket doors; they give a much more "quality" feel to the doors, and they are much better at blocking sound from places like bathrooms or lavs were pocket doors are often found. You do need to upgrade the hardware to allow for the extra weight.

And I custom make grooved thresholds for the bottom where the door slides in the grooved area. This also helps block sound. The threshold is attached with screws like the jambs (and wax puttied) for ease of removal to redo floors or whatever.

This is a great idea - I didn't think of using furniture/wax putty with the trim-head screws. I might be able to get them to blend in well with the semi-gloss white paint.

I did use heavy-duty Johnson frame kits rated for 200lb and with ball-bearing rollers, and I also used solid-core slab doors. Additionally, I used Johnson's plywood clips to add 5/8" plywood in between the metal studs on both sides of the pocket frames. This substantially beefs up the wall cavities and also allows one to use short screws to attach things like a TP holder to the wall. Finally, I used Johnson's hidden guides along with a slot routed into the bottoms of the doors rather than the compression-style plastic guides that pinch the outsides of the door. Not as nice as the custom thresholds that you describe, but I'm not at that level of craftsmanship yet!


That is a strange change, to eliminate the wood filled steel studs. I can go with the need to screw the split jambs in, but the casing seems odd. Does make me wonder what folks are using on steel stud construction jobs. If you are using a narrow casing you can just nail to the split jamb only.

That said, trim head screws with either putty or plug fill for the screws. I installed four pocket doors in a house last summer, all Johnson HD with the wood fill. The jambs and casings are all varnished and the screw locations do not stand out any more than finish nails. I didn’t have to screw the casings in, however.

I’m curious as I haven’t seen the new all steel studs. Did they use the same steel profile and just omit the wood? Is there an open channel to slide a piece of wood into?

Johnson is advertising the all-steel studs as an upgrade. They claim they are stiffer than the steel-wrapped wood studs. I'm not sure that the "upgrade" is worth anything to an installer, especially if you use plywood in between the studs. From my point of view the steel studs just complicate the install.

The steel profile is more heavy-duty than the one used previously and it does not have slots cut out for nailing trim. In my opinion, given the profile of the steel, inserting a piece of wood inside of the steel stud yourself would be too difficult to be worthwhile, and the lack of open slots would make the exercise useless unless you also cut openings.


IMO the roller systems are so smooth and good now that the door needs to be 100% level or it can ghost roll a bit. Older hardware may have a tiny bit more resistance.

How did you solve the ghosting issue? One of my two doors wants to ghost about 1/2" closed when it is fully opened. I had accepted this as the fault of my track installation and not fixable at this point in the game, but maybe not?

[Mark Bolton]

Why not attach your trim with something like Fastmount or other similar fasteners that are hidden from behind and will allow you to pop necessary trim on and off at will repeatedly with zero exposed fasteners at all? Starhanger is another brand.

[Mark Bolton]

One of my two doors wants to ghost about 1/2" closed when it is fully opened. I had accepted this as the fault of my track installation and not fixable at this point in the game, but maybe not?

Rare earth magnet at the latch or if they are ghosting on the closed side one on the back edge of the door will keep them put. Either that or just hook on to the back of the track with something and give it a pull downwards a few times til the door settles to the back.

[Tom M King]

I don't remember the model number, but I have always used the heavier, T-shaped tracks. The oldest ones are in a house I built in 1974. I've never had to pull one of those tracks out. I do put the two jamb pieces, next to the opening, in with small head screws, so the door can be taken down when it needs to be repainted.

I put small Corian rub blocks inside, at the bottom, so the door doesn't get scraped up. I make those so they only can touch the lower corners of the door, so any rubs aren't noticeable.

[Mark Bolton]

I've never had to pull one of those tracks out.

Thats true of most all pocket doors because once their anticipated space savings gives way to their poor functionality on a daily basis they rarely if ever see any use. Even the most high end of pocket doors will never withstand day in and day out use (bathroom for instance). I cant count the times people thought they were the cats pajama solution to a tight space. Sometimes they have to learn for themselves, but if not, they wind up framing them in later with a swing door.

About the only good day in day out pocket door solution (on that will be used numerous times per day) would be a star trek automated version that requires no human contact.

[Mel Fulks]

My Gramma had an 1890 brownstone with several pocket doors. They ran on brass floor level tracks. Smoooth ...

[Jim Becker]

I have several pocket doors in our 2008 addition and really like them. There are a few other places I wish I would have used them. That said, I do agree that for frequent use, the whole assembly and mechanism has got to be top notch. I'm not sure that's the case with the units our contractor installed. They are "good", but not great.

[Eric Schmid]

The relatively new soft open/close will also assist in keeping the door where it’s supposed to be in open or closed position. They are also quite nice if you have a house full of door slamming teenagers.

I have a rafter lift situation that causes a couple of door frames to move seasonally. I have a pocket door in one of these locations. The soft close hardware keeps the door in the closed or open position.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Just shoot the trim on and forget the screws. In the unlikely event that the door needs serviced, it's easy to remove a piece of nailed on trim. Also it is most likely far enough in the future that a remodel is desired and the whole thing is coming out anyhow. I personally have a deep seated hatred for pocket doors and actively try to discourage, but we still do a dozen or so per year.

The Johnson split studs are garbage in my opinion. Had a call back one time because the customer ran into a wall when moving a couch and bent the wood/steel stud into the door and locked everything up. What a pain. What we do now is just make the interior wall of the room getting the door deeper so we can use 2x6s on flat instead. Makes it a LOT stiffer and the wall thickness is relatively unnoticeable. It does take opening up the inside of one whole wall when doing a retrofit, but the results look good and are very strong. No problem at all with new construction.

[Tom M King]

I remember now that's the way I did it too. I don't think I've ever used those metal things for studs.

edited to add: I used Yellow Pine, instead of Spruce for those flat studs. I kept bundles of wood for a year, or more, when I was building new houses though, so I always had some that wouldn't move. Even now that I'm not building new houses, I still keep a supply, including treated to dry, and reveal which pieces can be relied on. Small parts are run out of the ones that move.