Sliding table saw

[Bob Potter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siizGKx-Kk8

Hi all
For those of you who have siding table saws and have used the Fritz and Frons, I think spelling wrong but you know I mean. About have way through video the operator demonstrates how to use the Fritz and frons. This was very interesting for me who loves sliding table saws and only has a sliding table attachment which I'm thankful to have. You may have seen this man before. Hope you find it encouraging and helpful. Thanks for looking, Bob

[Mark Woodmark]

I bought a slider mostly to be able to crosscut wider stuff easier and accurately. Once I got it I learned it would do so much more. I wonder if this guy in the video will be trading his Felder for a Martin in a year

[Mark Woodmark]

Also, I must be doing it all wrong. My shop never looks that spotless. But then I never wear a suit to work in.

[Anthony Spotorno]

The Fritz and Franz jig is essential with a slider... You can buy them premade, or you might want to look at Steve Rowe's youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE&ab_channel=ExtremeWoodworker

He shows you how to make one and has a bunch of other video's on how to use your slider that will really help.

[Bruce King]

Looks like an advertisement. Especially suspect when he says a 25k saw will pay for itself in a few months as compared to a cabinet saw. Looks like it takes longer to cut wood.

[Anthony Spotorno]

While I agree, demoing his Felder slider in a suit, in a shop with floors that looked clean enough to eat out of is suspect. Sliders are incredible. Used standard table saw for 30 years before I got my first slider and now I would not go back.

Don't need track saw to break down plywood.
I can do miters / angles.
It is worlds safer, you stand to the side, not in back of the blade.

With the Fritz & Franz jig you hands never get close to the wood. I can make veneer strips in seconds. In fact unless I'm cutting a long piece of wood or breaking down sheets, I pretty much have the jig on the table saw the entire time.

[johnny means]

Looks like an advertisement. Especially suspect when he says a 25k saw will pay for itself in a few months as compared to a cabinet saw. Looks like it takes longer to cut wood.

You'd have to see a professional operate one to understand.

[Jim Becker]

Looks like an advertisement. Especially suspect when he says a 25k saw will pay for itself in a few months as compared to a cabinet saw. Looks like it takes longer to cut wood.

At first glance, it might seem that way, but without the context of the cutting being done, it's not assured either way. But regardless, there are so many of us that wouldn't give up a true slider and go back to a cabinet saw. Yes, sometimes we take more time to do something that might seem simpler to do on a North American style saw, but there are benefits to that, too...more repeatable precision, elimination of the need to edge joint in many cases, no hands near the blade when using the slider wagon to support material, etc. It's just different, that's all, and different isn't bad.

[Dan Chouinard]

I like safety. Have Martin slider and a Sawstop. The Martin is my first exposure to a slider and I have quickly fallen in love. Need to make one of those F&F jigs

[Bruce King]

I can push an 8ft ply sheet through my saw without any roller stands with extension and side tables. I can straighten the edge of a crooked board too. I don’t doubt it’s a fine machine and I could by one but I don’t see the logic for a one man shop. Maybe if I was under 45 I would get some fancier tools. My tools don’t slow me down at all, it’s the age.

[Mike Kees]

Bruce I hear what you are saying. However I have to say that I bought a slider at 50 and it has definitely been worth it for me. I do make my living out of my shop and I realize that everyone on this forum is not in same situation as me.

[johnny means]

I can push an 8ft ply sheet through my saw without any roller stands with extension and side tables. I can straighten the edge of a crooked board too. I don’t doubt it’s a fine machine and I could by one but I don’t see the logic for a one man shop. Maybe if I was under 45 I would get some fancier tools. My tools don’t slow me down at all, it’s the age.

Aging is precisely what makes a slider essential to me. Muscling sheets over a cabinet saw is a young man's game. Multiple stops and the rip fence means I can break a sheet down into components without lifting the matertial onto the saw multiple times. I can break a sheet down into cabinet parts in a couple of minutes, with little effort. This means I can turn 20 to 30 sheets into parts in an hour or two. Time is your most valuable resource, especially for a smaller operation where delegation is not an option.

[Mark Woodmark]

Got this all figured out. The OP should have purchased a CNC router with three conveyor tables. One being routed. One waiting to be routed, and one being off loaded. Then he should have a sheet storage area close with a vacuum jib to load the sheets and mobile carts for the finished pieces. Wonder if I could get all that in my shop?

[Dave Cav]

I used conventional table saws, including Saw Stops, for nearly 50 years. I got a Minimax SC4E at 66 years of age for the convenience and safety. Steve Rowe, AKA Extreme Woodworker has some excellent You Tube videos including several on the Fritz and Franz jig. Sam Blasco, one of the sales reps for SCMI/Minimax also has a number of excellent videos and does a great job of showing how a pro uses a slider in a working shop. He has an alternate take on things and uses a parallel positioner instead of a F&F jig. I use both.

[Rob Luter]

This thread compelled my to visit the Felder and SCM websites. And I thought Thomas Lie-Neilsen ran a crack house! I need to save more money for retirement toys.

[Bill Carey]

This thread compelled my to visit the Felder and SCM websites. And I thought Thomas Lie-Neilsen ran a crack house! I need to save more money for retirement toys.

LOL. That's why I never go to those sites.

[Jim Becker]

This thread compelled my to visit the Felder and SCM websites. And I thought Thomas Lie-Neilsen ran a crack house! I need to save more money for retirement toys.

I'm very thankful that "pre-kids"....before we adopted the now adults, I had a few really good years and was able to invest in most of what I have now, knowing it would likely be much more difficult to do post-retirement. Of course, that now sets up the situation that when we downsize in the next few years, we have to find a property that I can fit the tools in, which is more expensive that the tools were. LOL

[Rod Sheridan]

This thread compelled my to visit the Felder and SCM websites. And I thought Thomas Lie-Neilsen ran a crack house! I need to save more money for retirement toys.

Felder and SCM aren't crack houses, they're the gateway drug suppliers. Look at Martin for comparison:D

regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Felder and SCM aren't crack houses, they're the gateway drug suppliers. Look at Martin for comparison:D

regards, Rod.
True dat. True dat.

[Erik Loza]

My dad was a tradesman and later, an industrial arts teacher for much of his career. He would not have known what to do with a sliding table saw if I gave him one. He definitely would have been in the "Cabinet saw or die"-club. So, there is certainly a demographic of woodworker who are going to stick with what they learned on and nothing will change that, no matter what. I call it the McDonald-Starbuck Syndrome: You've been going there for years because you know exactly what you will be getting, exactly how much it costs, and there is no decision making required: 100% safe and comfortable. Of course, we all know there are better burgers out there than McDonalds and better coffee out there than Starbucks. But, a server asking you what type of aoli you want with your beet fries or suggesting you actually try espresso will probably turn some people off. I guess that makes a slider beef tartare if you're a cabinet saw person?

Erik

[Jim Becker]

That was a an entertaining analogy, Erik.

There's no universally "correct" answer here, of course...other than the "different strokes, to different folks" thing, which seems appropriate when discussing sliding table saws. :) :D

[Bruce King]

My dad was a tradesman and later, an industrial arts teacher for much of his career. He would not have known what to do with a sliding table saw if I gave him one. He definitely would have been in the "Cabinet saw or die"-club. So, there is certainly a demographic of woodworker who are going to stick with what they learned on and nothing will change that, no matter what. I call it the McDonald-Starbuck Syndrome: You've been going there for years because you know exactly what you will be getting, exactly how much it costs, and there is no decision making required: 100% safe and comfortable. Of course, we all know there are better burgers out there than McDonalds and better coffee out there than Starbucks. But, a server asking you what type of aoli you want with your beet fries or suggesting you actually try espresso will probably turn some people off. I guess that makes a slider beef tartare if you're a cabinet saw person?
Erik

Not at all, many just don’t see the value in buying a $20k tool when theirs already does everything they need. Dang, I have a 1600sf basement with three garage doors and I only use half for my shop, maybe I need to rethink this, LOL.

[Bill Carey]

My dad was a tradesman and later, an industrial arts teacher for much of his career. He would not have known what to do with a sliding table saw if I gave him one. He definitely would have been in the "Cabinet saw or die"-club. So, there is certainly a demographic of woodworker who are going to stick with what they learned on and nothing will change that, no matter what. I call it the McDonald-Starbuck Syndrome: You've been going there for years because you know exactly what you will be getting, exactly how much it costs, and there is no decision making required: 100% safe and comfortable. Of course, we all know there are better burgers out there than McDonalds and better coffee out there than Starbucks. But, a server asking you what type of aoli you want with your beet fries or suggesting you actually try espresso will probably turn some people off. I guess that makes a slider beef tartare if you're a cabinet saw person?

Erik


For some of us you should call it the "Mel's Downtown Diner" syndrome. A lot of us, I hope, would not got to starbucks or McD's on purpose, only if traveling or as a matter of convivence. Since I quit traveling 3 years ago I've been to McD's 3 or 4 times - the grandson likes it - and starbucks not at all. Mel's on the other hand - 2 or 3 times a week. Nothing quite like going out for pie and coffee where the pies are made by an actual baker. And there isn't a better burger or italian beef sandwich in the world than Mel's. Plus I can get there in the golf cart. So put me in the cabinet saw or die group. Aoli? Beet fries? Whachu talkin bout Willis?

[Ron Selzer]

I see the value and versatility in a sliding saw now, however if I would have known about them when I upgraded to the SawStop ICS 5hp 36". I still would have bought the ICS because it really is too big for the space I have now. Flat out no room for the sliding table saw. House is paid for and I am retirement age and still working. Figure in a few years I will decide if i want to work into my late 70's to 80's then I will have an addition built on with master bedroom for SWMBO and a 600sqft walkout basement shop addition for me. Then there will be a 8' sliding saw, A3-41, edge sander, stroke sander, floor stand mortise machine, and probably even a dedicated finish room.
Ron

[Erik Loza]

Not at all, many just don’t see the value in buying a $20k tool when theirs already does everything they need. Dang, I have a 1600sf basement with three garage doors and I only use half for my shop, maybe I need to rethink this, LOL.

Bruce, I can't disagree with you except to say that there is a large demographic that just wants a slider (or other type of Euro machine). Some folks buy a Harley, some folks buy a boat, some folks buy a fancy Euro woodworking machine. Since someone mentioned Martin, I can almost guarantee that there are more Martin machines in rich hobbyist shops than in pro shops here in the US.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

Not at all, many just don’t see the value in buying a $20k tool when theirs already does everything they need. Dang, I have a 1600sf basement with three garage doors and I only use half for my shop, maybe I need to rethink this, LOL.
You do need to rethink that...you're wasting perfectly good shop space with nothingness or for things that just don't count. (Unless it's being used by a spouse and then even your shop is fair game. :) :D

[Bruce King]

You do need to rethink that...you're wasting perfectly good shop space with nothingness or for things that just don't count. (Unless it's being used by a spouse and then even your shop is fair game. :) :D

It’s all pretty full, we are into biking, ebikes too, one car for road trips in there, she put a car cover on it. Also car repair shop and room for big projects.

[Jim Becker]

Well, there you go...your shop stays the same size. :) But maybe she'll let you "upgrade" some tools. LOL

[Dan Chouinard]

Not at all, many just don’t see the value in buying a $20k tool when theirs already does everything they need. Dang, I have a 1600sf basement with three garage doors and I only use half for my shop, maybe I need to rethink this, LOL.
We paid $3500 for a Martin slider. Built like a German tank.

[Dan Chouinard]

Bruce, I can't disagree with you except to say that there is a large demographic that just wants a slider (or other type of Euro machine). Some folks buy a Harley, some folks buy a boat, some folks buy a fancy Euro woodworking machine. Since someone mentioned Martin, I can almost guarantee that there are more Martin machines in rich hobbyist shops than in pro shops here in the US.

Erik
Most pro shops have?

[Erik Loza]

Most pro shops have?

Most commonly, some ancient Italian saw. Less commonly, an Altendorf. Very rarely, a Martin. But to be honest, none of the above. Most shops actually have a CNC router.

Erik

[Dan Chouinard]

Most commonly, some ancient Italian saw. Less commonly, an Altendorf. Very rarely, a Martin. But to be honest, none of the above. Most shops actually have a CNC router.

Erik
Thats just great Erik. Finally getting my hands on a slider... but now have to wonder about a CNC router. Having been in a small one man shop for the past 11-12 years I have had zero exposure to any CNC machines. How many people have to work in a shop before heading in that direction? I am still essentially in a one man shop, just a much larger one.

[David Zaret]

i am a one-man professional shop with a Martin slider and a CNC. the CNC acts as my employee, and i would never trade my Martin for anything, even though it takes up a ton of space, and i kept my cabinet saw for other operations. it's not an either-or... depending on what you build, the slider is a terrific tool for accuracy and efficiency. the addition of the Airtight clamps is actually a game-changer, and i don't use the fritz-and-franz anymore since installing the clamps.

the CNC has changed the way i design and build furniture and casework. but, it requires specialized software and the patience to learn it.

[Joe Hendershott]

Just to add you can certainly get a good model for half that 20K. I took delivery last month of a Minimax sc4e and total with delivery just over $10,000. Many years ago I used one in a commercial setting so I have a little experience but still marvel at the ease of use. Once you get the differences down and modify your work methods it is a true pleasure to use.

I see the cost as a deal. My Dpmino XL with cutters was nearly 20% of that and while I have no issues in spending that much for a quality tool it makes the Minimax look cheap. I know it will last as long as I will so the cost per year, month, day or however you want to do the math is quite low. The space it takes up, well that's another story.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ron, my slider takes up the same or less space than my cabinet saw did, and it has a tilting spindle shaper as well.

Most hobby users don't need a large slider, I just need one that can crosscut a sheet of plywood. Here's a photo of mine with the outrigger table removed, which is the normal condition for me.......Regards, Rod.449915

[Dan Chouinard]

i am a one-man professional shop with a Martin slider and a CNC. the CNC acts as my employee, and i would never trade my Martin for anything, even though it takes up a ton of space, and i kept my cabinet saw for other operations. it's not an either-or... depending on what you build, the slider is a terrific tool for accuracy and efficiency. the addition of the Airtight clamps is actually a game-changer, and i don't use the fritz-and-franz anymore since installing the clamps.

the CNC has changed the way i design and build furniture and casework. but, it requires specialized software and the patience to learn it.
Thank you David. I am interested to know more about airtight clamps.

[Will Allen]

Thank you David. I am interested to know more about airtight clamps.


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