Shelix Head DW735 Expectations

[Ken Howell]

Hi All,

How smooth should I expect this head to cut? I planed some red oak through it but it left some lines like a nicked blade. I couldn't really see any nicks so I pulled all 40 blades off and inspected them with a magnifying glass. I didn't see any nicks in them. I even ran my fingernail over each one and couldn't detect any. So I cleaned each blade and the head and reinserted each one following the Shelix directions and used a torque wrench to tighten them. I ran a board through and still got the ridges along the length on the board. I send Byrd a picture and they said it looked like the blades weren't inserted correctly. I did it again and still getting some ridges although not as many as before and you can only see them in a certain light.

I've watched some Rob Cosman videos and he talked about milling marks from planers and jointers.

Is this normal? I don't recall seeing it with the original 3 blade on the Dewalt and I don't get them on Grizzly 858 helical head jointer.

Thank you,

Ken

[Myk Rian]

The head can produce shallow skallops that sand out easy enough.
How about showing us the picture you sent Byrd.

[Stewart Lang]

It will produce slight scalloping as mentioned, every about 3/8" or so. It sands out easy. A picture would definitely help us.

[David Utterback]

The way to find defective or damaged inserts is to plane a wide board against one side of the planer bed. Mark the defect with a dark line, raise the head, insert the board with the same alignment and remove the top. The dark line will appear below the defective or damaged insert. This is how I discovered the defects in my first Shelix which was exchanged for another by Byrd. Good luck.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I’ve been through this exact thing on a 735 with a Shelix in a shop I used to work in. This started happening at one point after some of the cutters were rotated to a new side of carbide. I spent an entire afternoon once removing every knife, cleaning pitch/debris/etc from both the cutters and the cutterhead mounting points. This alone didn’t solve the issue and the ridges / lines persisted. I ended up noticing a few mounting points on the cutterhead that had tiny burrs that prevented the cutter from seating properly and I filed them flat.

The main factors that I found through trial and error were both having the cutters properly seated in the cutterhead and how much torque was applied to tighten them down. This sounds simple and should be, but there was much fussing that ensued before I stopped with results that were acceptable. I was unable to tune the cutters such that the ridges were 100% eliminated, but it was eventually much improved by the time I decided to stop adjusting it. There were no ridges initially with the cutterhead as it came from the factory.

It was a frustrating experience. I don’t personally see the benefit of the helical heads unless you happen to work with really figured wood on a regular basis, which I do not. The tiny scallops are always there even under perfect cutterhead conditions, which annoys me. I guess I just prefer sharp HSS knives in a planer and jointer for my work and feel like helical heads are a bit of a trend that most folks don’t really need.

[Ken Howell]

Here is the picture I sent to Byrd:

449034

[Ken Howell]

That makes sense about burrs not letting the inserts seat properly. The history on this particular head leads me to think that now. When I first got this head the screw hole for the gear was not tapped all the way and I had to finish tapping it after they sent me one. Then the pulley key would not fit in the slot like it should and I had to hammer it in after they told me it was "normal" to do that. I'm curious now about possible burrs. I'm really regretting buying this head.

[Ryan Yeaglin]

don't forget that the shelix heads have caused many planers to have overheating issues. They may be made for a 735, but the 735 isn't made for it..

[Calvin Salline]

reading about those problems, did you try using a bottom tap in the insert threads? maybe not threaded deep enough or metal/dirt in the bottom?

[tim walker]

Is there another solution besides Byrd Shelix? Surely someone else makes these type of heads?

[Ken Howell]

reading about those problems, did you try using a bottom tap in the insert threads? maybe not threaded deep enough or metal/dirt in the bottom?

I haven't tried retapping yet. Maybe as a last resort I will try that. I did blow out al of the holes with air.

[Curt Harms]

don't forget that the shelix heads have caused many planers to have overheating issues. They may be made for a 735, but the 735 isn't made for it..

That's a good way to state it. Does the DeWalt 735 have a 2 speed feed feature? Maybe use the slower feed speed exclusively if it does. I've thought about replacing the straight knife head in my Jet JJP-12 but I know that the segmented knife head version feeds slower - 12 FPM - compared to the straight knife version - 20 FPM. People have done the conversion including replacing feed drive components to slow it down. I doubt Jet would have slowed the feed rate if it weren't necessary and I haven't had issues with the straight knives to make the conversion worthwhile. I'm sure if I worked with figured or gnarly grained wood I'd feel differently.

[Clark Hussey]

don't forget that the shelix heads have caused many planers to have overheating issues. They may be made for a 735, but the 735 isn't made for it..

I have been running a shelix head on my 735 for 6 months now. I do mostly cherry, oak, hard maple etc. Have not had any problems with over heating sometimes running for hours. If your having an overheating issue replace your onboard circuit breaker. That should solve your problem.

[Randy Heinemann]

I think that, if Dewalt intended the 735 to be a helical head planer, it would have offered that option by now. There is enough interest that, making it an option at purchase, would probably generate business. Sure it would add $500 or $600 to the price, but that's still a great price on a helical head planer that performs like the 735. I also hear enough problems with it after installation that it makes me wonder whether it is a good after market choice. While not a common source of issues, it does seem to cause problems enough that there is some question about whether the planer is made to handle the added load in the long run. I have owned my 735 with the original steel knives for close to 15 years (or maybe it just seems that long) with no issues at all. I wouldn't mess with that. The real issue for me has always been that tools are designed to operate in a particular way and, when a tool like the 735 operates as well as it has for as long as it has the way it was designed, why mess with that. If you want a helical head planer, buy one. I have a helical head jointer and would never go back to the steel knives but the jointer was designed for a helical head.

[Joel Cohen]

I tried the 735 shelix. Total disaster. Cut quality was completely unacceptable. I removed, cleaned and re torqued the inserts 3 times. I’m not talking about the .0015” scalloping, I’m talking stair steps, ridges, non parallel planing. I went back to the stock knives and will stick with them. It’s funny though, I have a shelix in my jointer and it’s fantastic. The conclusion I came to, is the 735 just doesn’t have enough power for a 13” helical head, so the 735 byrd only has 40 cutters over three rows. That’s 3.07 cutters per inch of width. My 6” jet jointer byrd head has 30 cutters in 5 rows. That’s 5 cutters per inch of cutting width. I think the higher tooth count provides better tooth overlap and leaves a much more consistent finish. IDK, maybe I got a bad head, but I lost 2 days fooling around with the thing and would much rather buy a couple sets of knives every year.

[Ray Newman]

"I think that, if Dewalt intended the 735 to be a helical head planer, it would have offered that option by now. There is enough interest that, making it an option at purchase, would probably generate business. ..."
--Randy Heinemann

BINGO! I purchased a 735x in December 2022. I thought about a shelix, then other told me that same as whet you posted. So far, the 3 blades work well and I do not work with highly figured/exotic woods.

[Keegan Shields]

Shelix head worked great in my DW-735. I think most of the opinions about overheating etc are from people who don’t own a converted 735 or have “heard” about overheating issues.

It’s a lightweight consumer planer, so light passes are required. 1/4 turn passes worked for me, never had any overheating issues taking 13” width passes even in white oak. If you need to take heavy passes, buy a heavier duty planer.

It’s also puzzled me why people expect a finish ready surface from their planer. A planer is meant to thickness stock to the correct dimension. Random orbital sanders, smoothing planes etc. prep the surface.

[Andrew Hughes]

Here’s a simple fixture to hold the knives and hone them. It won’t remove big nicks but the cheap plastic smith diamond hone does a pretty good job for not much money.
The cut angle is 45 degrees
Good Luck

[Greg Parrish]

In my opinion, Keegan hits the nail on the head. I like the segmented head in my 735 because it significantly cuts the noise down. I’m also willing to accept that it doesn’t leave a glass smooth finish even though the head in my jointer does. However, I will also say that this is the second 735 with Shelix head that I’ve owned and the first one did leave glass smooth finish. It was purchased back around 2016 and the current one sometime after CoVid. The current one leaves lines like the OP’s does so I’m wondering if they had a quality change after the CoVid effect. I know they went through an employee and/or material shortage situation so maybe the newer product isn’t quite as refined as their older one. Who knows. Either way, it only takes a few minutes to hit the item with a plane or sander after planing before you move on to glue up or other steps.

One thing I’ll also add is that I have a Shelix in my 735 and a luxcut in my jet jointer. If I were to replace the Shelix, I’d buy a luxcut for the 735 because it is designed so that the cutters self align whereas the Shelix has some play that requires you to more carefully install the cutters to get them seated properly. This alone could account for some of the cut issues, as well as the items pointed out by others above.


Shelix head worked great in my DW-735. I think most of the opinions about overheating etc are from people who don’t own a converted 735 or have “heard” about overheating issues.

It’s a lightweight consumer planer, so light passes are required. 1/4 turn passes worked for me, never had any overheating issues taking 13” width passes even in white oak. If you need to take heavy passes, buy a heavier duty planer.

It’s also puzzled me why people expect a finish ready surface from their planer. A planer is meant to thickness stock to the correct dimension. Random orbital sanders, smoothing planes etc. prep the surface.

[Brian Gumpper]

Is there another solution besides Byrd Shelix? Surely someone else makes these type of heads?

it's a function of the indexible inserts and smaller diameter, fewer rows. Don't think another brand will make a difference.

When customers call and ask if they will get a better finish than the steel knives I always tell them for normal woods nothing gives a better finish than a sharp set of steel knives it's the other benefits you have to appreciate. Figured woods, different story.

[Jack Lemley]

I have had a 735 w/shelix for 10 years. Moderate usage. Never rotated the cutters. Finished surface just requires a pass or two with an orbital sander. The only downside to me is the passes have to be pretty thin but I have used it so long now adjusting the pass cuts is second nature and I down think about it anymore. I find it hard to believe there is a planner out there that produces a surface that doesn't at least a little sanding. Anyway, if you are in to buying rough sawn wood then get a bigger planner. I get mine S3 sides and am very happy with my planer.

Jack

[Andrew More]

It was a frustrating experience. I don’t personally see the benefit of the helical heads unless you happen to work with really figured wood on a regular basis, which I do not.

Haven't seen the scallops using my ShopFox 1728H, but YMMV. I like shellix heads for jointers and planners because then I don't have to waste a bunch of time f*** around with sharpening jigs and alignment jigs when I re-install the knives. For people who are good at this, it's probably less of an issue, but it absolutely broke me last time I had to do this.

Basically I had a 8" Warrior jointer with HSS knives. I got a nick in one of the blades, and decided to resharpen. So an hour or two resharpening the blades, and then 4-5 hours messing around with a magnetic knife jig to re-install them. Never got them quite right, and got scallops with the HSS knives, which was not a problem before. Also something in the pine I was jointing resulted in the knives being chipped again. I gladly paid a grand or so to not have to mess with the whole thing ever again. Also now when I get a chip, I can easily turn a couple of inserts. It's quieter, the cuts are nicer, and it's easier for the DC.

But really for me I'm trading money to avoid a nightmare, something I seldom do.

As for the 735, it doesn't have a helix head because at the time it didn't make sense for the price point. (Dewalt does everything to a price point) You could upgrade to a nicer 4 post 15" thicknesser for about the price of head + base dewalt planer, and get a much better over all build, including cast iron tables and bed, mobile base, 2-3HP motor, resharpenable HSS knives, and internally all nicely machine metal parts. If you added the tables + dewalt base to the 735 you were reasonable close to a 15" planer so it just made sense to upgrade. I think with all the inflation this basic calculus has shifted a bit, and helix heads are far more common than when the 735 was originally released, so maybe if DeWalt releases an upgrade they might adjust this, who knows?

[Andrew Hughes]

If your getting nicks in straight knives from ordinary common domestic woods rocks and dirt are getting imbedded in the surface or ends.
I used to have this problem until realized i cannot store wood on the ground. Or anyplace or vehicle that was hauling dirt.
The only time I see nicks when I’m using dirty wood. It’s really that simple.
Since jointers are handfeed insert heads to me they have more cons then pros. Insert heads scrap wood they cut a lot like dull high speed steel.
I used to have a 8 inch jointer with a insert head. It was only good for thick boards and exotics like teak. I remember running some fat wood full of pitch i was very disappointed.
I currently have a powermatic planer with insert head and a jointer with straight knives.
Good Luck

[Stephen Rosenthal]

This is an old thread that has been resurrected and I was reluctant to chime in - until now. I’ve had a 735 for 4 years and have never been tempted to “upgrade” to a Shelix head. I’ve replaced the original OEM HSS blades once, an easy 10 minute process. I don’t use rough cut lumber, do occasionally use figured woods, and always take shallow passes. On the rare occasions I do get tear out, a few passes with a #4 handplane or scraper resolves any issues. I can’t remember the last time I needed to use sandpaper. The result is a glass smooth surface.

One other thing that keeps coming up, i.e., noise reduction. First of all, I always wear hearing protection, so it’s a non-factor. By far the major contributor to noise on the 735 is the dust extractor fan. There are YouTube videos comparing the noise level of straight knives vs. Shelix and the difference is merely a few decibels. So that’s an old and tired argument.

Bottom line, if you think a Shelix head will improve the performance of a 735, by all means go for it. I’d rather invest my money in a couple of nice hand planes.

[Mel Fulks]

Could just be “ sand-blasting” from being hit by wood bits. With that type pine the dark hard grain does that. Especially when chip
suction is weak. Try some hot water on a cloth.