Ready to buy - jointer or planer?

[Matt Day]

Hi all, first post here! Though I've lurked for a while...

A little about my WW background and tools first. At one point, one of my roommates I lived with was a professional WW and had all General equipment (TS, jointer, planer, bandsaw) as well as numerous hand tools. Needless to say, I got spoiled. He's since moved out, and I've been building up my shop and am ready to buy either a jointer or planer to clean up some rough lumber I bought. I currently have a TS and router w/ table, as well as quite a few hand tools (but no planes yet).

I know this has been asked before, and I've done a lot of reading on the topic but i can't seem to find the answer to my question. I'm building a trestle table for the kitchen out of curly maple that I bought rough cut: the boards for the table top are all under 7" wide, and I bought 12/4 soft maple for the trestles (legs). As I said, I'm ready to buy either a jointer or planer and would really like to not have to buy both, since money is tight.

I have two theories.

1) Buy a 6" jointer. After ripping the boards down to just over 6" (to take out the major high/lows), I can put it on the 6" jointer to plane the face. Once this face is planed down, I can turn it on edge to get a nice 90* edge. Then I can go to the other face and edge and have 2 parallel surfaces. I know the flaw in this is that it will be tough to get all the boards for the table top the same width, as a planer would do. I was going to buy the Ridgid JP0610.

2) Buy a 12"+ planer, and figure out how to make a "sled" that I've read about to make the faces flat and parallel. Then use the TS or router table on the edges to make them flat and parallel. I haven't decided on which planer to buy, suggestions are welcome.

I know it's best to have both, but could either of my theories work?

I *could* spend $600 on a jointer and a planer, but I would like to make it work on the smallest budget possible.

Thanks in advance!

[Matt Warfield]

I'd recommend #2. I was also faced with the same decision and my mind was made up for me by finding a great deal on a used jointer. I attempted what you described in number one with...how should I say it...less than desirable results. Measuring the thickness of that board at the four corners provided four very different results. I think you'd have much better results with the planer/sled.

[tod evans]

matt welcome

[John Miliunas]

Matt (and Matt), welcome to the Creek!!!:D (Gee, how often does one get to do that???):D Anyhow, if it's just going to be one of them, get a decent planer and go the sled route. With rough sawn and just a jointer, it would be extremely hard to get two flat AND parallel surfaces out of it. You already know the "whys" and "why nots", so we won't even go there. :) That said, and knowing you're on a budget, still try to go for the best one you have funds available for. A 12 or 13" "lunch box" planer will serve you well, even if you later get an 8" (or wider) jointer.:) :cool:

[JayStPeter]

I would go with #2.

[Matt Day]

Thanks for the welcome, and the quick advice!

If I go the planer route, could someone point me at a tutorial or at least some pictures of the sleds we're talking about? I'm pretty sure I understand what to do, but a picture is worth a thousand words as they say. Also, any suggestions on a planer that doesn't break the bank? I was thinking of the Delta ShopMaster TP305 since it's easy to buy at Lowe's and seems to get good reviews.

[David Wilson]

Matt
I would go with the planer. A good way to joint the boards without a jointer is to use a router, a pattern bit and a good straight edge. Before I got a jointer I had a 6' piece of 1" square aluminum tubing attached to the edge of my bench. Clamp the board to the benchtop so it just overhangs the tubing and run the router along the board with the bearing on the bit riding against the tubing. You need a patern bit with the bearing on the end of the bit. Got very good results with this method.

[Scott Loven]

Check Amazon for a reconditioned dewalt

[John Hemenway]

Matt D,
#2 is the way to go!

Fine Woodworking (aka, FWW) had an article about a cool, adjustable sled. Jan/Feb 2005, #175. They also had a video of it on their website (http://www.taunton.com/) that I can't find anymore. Perhaps it's in the new subscription area of the web site.

[Matt Day]

John,

I found a link to the sled video (http://www.taunton.com/FWN/ToolGuide/ToolguideDirectory.aspx?dir=Jointers) that's from FWW, but as you can see it's member's only. And even w/ a subscribion it's $60/yr! My Dad's had a subscription since 1982, and he's supposed to pay $60/yr? Anyway....

I found this article: http://www.rd.com/americanwoodworker/article.do?siteId=2222&categoryId=7008&contentId=351
which I think portrays the main idea. So let me see if I got it. You put the concave side down (concave being "bottom of the cup") and shim it to the sled so it doesn't rock or wobble. This should give me one side that is true and flat. Then I simply have to flip the board over and run it through w/o wedges, then hit the edges with Dave's router idea. Anything I'm missing?

[Don Baer]

Why not buy both..



28908 28909




Then use the rest of the money to buy wood....:D

[Tom Donalek]

I'm in a pretty similar situation, so this is really interesting for me. What I've been reading generally seems to say, "Jointer first, then planer." But what people are saying here makes a lot of sense.

The sled article in Fine Woodworking is in issue #175. There was a video on the FWW site, but they pull them after 6 months. It's a torsion box with a set of adjustable bars to support the stock.

I'm a bit skeptical of the straight bars supporting the stock that the author uses. If the 'back' of the stock is cupped or similarly uneven, it seems that the system of bars would be tough to tweak to keep the stock from wobbling side-to-side. The insane, impractical part of me is imagining a grid of rubber tipped bolts that could be adjusted in height to match the contours of the 'back' of the stock individually. I guess that I'd put t-nuts or similar in the top of the box, and cut hand-sized (3" diam?) holes in the back, so I could reach up and adjust the bolts by the heads.

My other question about this setup is: if the cup of the board causes the rollers to loose contact in the middle of the process, is it a big deal to just push the sled through until it contacts the rollers again?

Oh yeah, while we're talking about this, has anyone here actually used one of these?

[John Miliunas]

Matt, yup you got the idea! The thing to watch for, as well, is not just cupped boards, but also, those which have a twist. On those, find the side which rocks the least on the sled and hot glue your wedges to keep it from rocking until you get the top surface flat. Flip it over and now you're ready to continue planing as you would after face joining. :) Once done with the surfaces, you're ready to go on to Dave's method or, you can do as Mark Singer does: If you have access to a lo-o-o-o-o-ong aluminum square tube or similar, you can use it as a straight side on one side of your board and trim off the garbage on the other side right on your table saw. Either way works fine. I have a circular saw guide system, so that's what I usually happen to use. Lots of ways to skin that cat!:) :cool:

[Russ Massery]

I don't know where your located, But I have a 6" Delta jointer for sale in the classifieds.:rolleyes:

[scott spencer]

Hi Matt and welcome. The debate about which to get first is nearly as old as alot of theological discussions! I'd go with the planer first because it can be made to flatten boards, but it's very difficult (to impossible) to get a jointer to create parallel faces at uniform thickness. Then hope to get a jointer soon after...of course a DC usually comes soon after a planer too! :D

[Chris Barton]

Hi Matt, welcome to the creek. Where do you live? I have a 6" Ridgid jointer and 13" planer that I would package together for $600. Both are in very new like condition and complete. You should be able to find a similar deal where ever you live.

[Jeff Borges]

Welcome Matt, hope you enjoy this place as much as I have ....


I recently upgraded my shop with a planer, my figuring was that a buddy had a jointer.. it usually had everything sitting on it.. but the planer was always clear and ready to use. (his mess made my decision easy??!!)

Anyhow, ebay... found a number of refurbed dewalts 13 inch, nice planer.. now everything in my shop is clean and square.. stay tuned for the workbench to come!!! (leg and stretchers are complete)

also, I have always thought of my table saw as a poor mans jointer.. with a little finesse and care you can get a lot of the truing work done there..

Jeff

[Rob Millard]

I would go with the planer. I consider the jointer to be one of the least useful tools in a shop, because of the capacity issue, ( that is why I don't own one) A 12" jointer may be a useful tool, but a large and expensive one.
Flattening stock is an easy and quick process. I use a portable power plane, or a scrub plane depending on the amount of stock to remove. I'm only interested in getting the face flat, not appearance, so I can send it through the planer without rocking.
Thicknessing stock by hand is a useful skill, and I do it often, but I'm glad I have my planer. No other tool I own, does more to remove the drudgery of woodworking, than the surface planer.
Rob Millard

[Rick Thom]

I would suggest the planner too. I have a "Glue-line" blade in my TS and that certainly produces a straight, smooth edge that is ready for gluing.
On the planner, I have a 12" Delta ($200 cheapy) I got on a good sale at HD a while ago. I have put a lot of BF through it and it has done the job for me, the only disappointment being more snipe than I would like. There are much better units around for a little more money and others will recommend brand/models. No regrets really because when the time comes I will just replace with what I need for the long(er) run.
We have a WW shop fairly close to where I live that is fully equipped with commercial equipment and you can use the shop and their equipment for $10/hr. There is an additional charge for planning/ BF if that's what you are doing. Quite a few guys take advantage of this if they need to use a specific tool they don't have, need more space, their equipment breaks down etc... They often do all their cutting, planning etc and take the pieces home to assemble. Good way to get that big contract done quickly, get paid and save to buy the good bread and butter equipment they need long run.

[Robert Mickley]

I got by with just a planer and an old hand plane for several years till I got a jointer. even though I have the jointer I still edge joint long boards with a straight edge and router

[John Miliunas]

Hey Matt, after looking through this thread again, I just realized that, if you happen to be in the Wisconsin area, I also happen to know someone selling their portable planer and a 6" jointer! Both in nice shape, mild use, only 2 o 3 years old and I believe the planer has just been through a factory service/tweak recently. They're both Craftsman, if I recall and the guy is looking for right around $450.00 for the pair! :) Let me know if you're interested and I can hook you up!:) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Like most others, I'll suggest starting with the planer first if you can't aquire both a jointer and planer now. Using a sled to flatten will get old after a bit, but thickness planing is something that will greatly enhance your ablity to keep proportion in your projects, etc. But keep the jointer on your short-list... ;)

[Kent Cori]

Welcome to the Creek Matt. I'd go with the planer. I can work around the lack of a jointer pretty easily but there is no substitute for my planer.

[Jarrod Nelson]

I was thinking of the Delta ShopMaster TP305 since it's easy to buy at Lowe's and seems to get good reviews.

Welcome to the Creek.

I haven't driven many, but I have the Delta 13" (22-580) and love it. My dad has the TP205 and seems to like it. I think the 13" is a little better with snipe though. If I had it to buy over again, I'd give the Grizzlys a good look first though.

[Matt Day]

Thanks for all the advice guys! I editted my profile to show that I live in Virginia. I'm heading out to Lowe's to pick up a planer right now and some MDF to make a sled. But I might break down and get a jointer while I'm there!

[Scott D Johnson]

I bought a new Jet 6" Open Stand Jointer for $350 and a new Dewalt 735 13" planer for $475.
They work just fine for a "hobbyist" type shop. Of course max 6" width boards "in the rough".

[Andy Henriksen]

I'm jealous! I am in the same boat - needing at least a planer but willl have to keep that on hold for at least a while, due to finances. When you get your sled done and give it a go, be sure to post your results/impressions of this method. You asked in an earlier post if anyone had used this method, and nobody responded, so you may be the first. Hopefully within a few months, I may be looking to do the same thing, so I'll be watching this post closely.

Enjoy!
-Andy

[Quesne Ouaques]

I have had excellent results with a planer sled in my 13 inch Delta. Until I get my new 6" Ridgid jointer set up (bought it yesterday...still in the box!), the planer sled and my router table (using a home-made jig), have been my only method of jointing.

My standard sled is a 38" x 13" piece of 3/4" plywood (MDF might hold it's true longer). At each end I have wood cleats glued along the top edges so the workpiece has something to rest against as it's being planed (whatever you do, don't use screws....those cleats are bound to eventually get planed!).

Using a hot glue gun and shims to secure the board to the sled, I run it through until the planed face is parallel to the bottom of the sled. When I need to flip the board, the glue comes off pretty easily with a chisel and my fingernails.

The edge jointing on the router table is accomplished with a vertical "table" assembly (laminated plywood or MDF) trued to the bit and clamped to the router fence. The outfeed table is simply a second layer of laminate which covers 1/2 of the "table". Line up the outfeed table with the edge of the router bit using a machinist's square (or whatever) and you're jointing!

I've also used the sled to plane very small and delicate workpieces. When doing that, it's best to attach "runners" to the sled on either side of the workpiece (two pieces of scraps slightly thicker than the workpiece).

[Allen Bookout]

Matt, If you dicide to get the planner before the jointer look at the Dewalt 735 (DW735). I purchased a reconditioned one (DW735R) from ToolKing last year and really like it. Everyone that I have seen report on it seem to feel the same way. I could not tell that mine was not brand new and have not had any problems with it.

Buying factory reconditioned saves a few bucks and ToolKing has some ridiculous standard shipping fee like about eight bucks or something, I do not remember the exact amount for sure. I have bought four Dewalt factory reconditioned tools from them. The planner and the two nail guns were like brand new. I could tell that the Dewalt 621 router had been used but that is probably because I got the last one that they had at the time. However it is still running great.

It may seem like that I work for ToolKing but that is not the case. It is just that they have a lot of reconditioned, as well as new stuff, on hand most of time and at as good a price or better than I could find anywhere else. At least it is a good place to get a price to compare to some other retailer.

That is a great loss - the General tools I am talking about ---------- and may be the roommate also.

Good Luck! Allen

looks like that I am to late. I did not notice his 12:22pm post. Oh well!!!! I needed the typing practice anyway.

[Homer Faucett]

My first 3 tools were a circular saw, a router, and a planer. I just got a table saw last year, and I was given an old jointer at about the same time that I just got up and running. My planer, a (don't laugh) Ryobi 12", is about 6 years old, and has run a lot of rough sawn oak through it.

As others have said, a router with a decent straight edge does a pretty good job of jointing boards. My table saw now does good job, too, although I need some more work on my technique to be more consistent.

The jointer is nice for face jointing, but I'd go with the planer first.