Flush Bolts on french doors

[brian zawatsky]

I'm building a large set of entry doors, and one door must be made inactive with flush bolts. The doors are nearly 9' tall, so the upper flush bolt will have a 24" extension rod connecting the jamb bolt to the mechanism so the lever can be reached by those of average height. I'm going to make a jig to keep the drill bit straight while i bore the very long hole into the end of the door stile.

The jamb bolt is 1/2" in diameter. I've never installed one of these in a new door, and what I'm wondering is how large should I make the bore hole in the stile? Any reason that a 5/8" hole wouldn't work?
Also, I'm crossing my fingers in hopes that a flush bolt will work in an arch top door setup. Pic attached below for reference.

I'm hoping that someone here has installed these & can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for your help!

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[Jim Becker]

This is an example of something I personally would have wanted to build into the stile prior to assembly by gluing up the stile as a sandwich with the path for the long pin embedded. A long bore like that is going to be "fun" keeping it straight and true which it needs to be for the mechanism to operate smoothly. Have you already assembled these?

[Joe Calhoon]

Better to route a groove and fill it. Or cover the groove with a T astrigal.

[Dave Seng]

I can't help with the question, but must say - those are beautiful doors. How are you planning on "sealing" the gap between them?

[brian zawatsky]

Thanks Dave. There will be a stop strip applied to the inactive door to catch the active one, and spring bronze weather stripping all around.

[brian zawatsky]

Yep, doors are assembled. It was an oversight on my part I suppose. I guess I was over eager to build the doors and didn't think about building in a channel in the stile.

[Bill Dufour]

You could rout the channel now suppose. look into gun drilling. There are companies that specialize in that work.
Bill D.

[Tom M King]

I've drilled similar holes, in existing doors, by making a simple, wooden guide to help aim a long spade bit, and it worked fine. 5/8's would be plenty, but I'd probably use a 9/16's, with the guide. The guide would be installed on a sheet of plywood, that the door could lay on. I wouldn't route it out. If the hole doesn't quite hit the target, a round rasp can help up in the hole without damaging the exit.

What flush bolts are you using? It's been a Long time ago that I did this, but I think I used something from Baldwin.

[William Hodge]

I ran into something like this in November. The project was double doors, and the inactive door needed a wire channel drilled from the hinge to the latch, across the lock rail. The doors were already built when this was brought up. The solution was to hire a lock smith who had a $1,500. laser guided drilling tool that would guide the drill. I don't know what the work cost, but it worked.

[Walter Plummer]

Do you have the hardware in hand? When I did one similar only the "top" 2 inches of the bolt was 1/2" diameter. I think the connecting rod was only 1/4". We routed a groove and plugged it. Look into a t-astragal instead of a flat stop.

[brian zawatsky]

I've drilled similar holes, in existing doors, by making a simple, wooden guide to help aim a long spade bit, and it worked fine. 5/8's would be plenty, but I'd probably use a 9/16's, with the guide. The guide would be installed on a sheet of plywood, that the door could lay on. I wouldn't route it out. If the hole doesn't quite hit the target, a round rasp can help up in the hole without damaging the exit.

What flush bolts are you using? It's been a Long time ago that I did this, but I think I used something from Baldwin.

Thank you Tom. Believe me I have no intention on routing a channel. I'm perfectly comfortable making jigs & fixtures and have a design in mind that would use a couple 2" long flanged drill bushings to guide a long auger bit. I plan on making the jig adjustable so the space between the two bushings can be changed, limiting the depth that can be drilled before the chuck bottoms out and the jig needs to be adjusted again. I'm thinking that should keep the bit from wandering.

My question was really to judge what size hole to drill so I can order the correct drill bushings. The flush bolts I'm using are made by a company called Deltana. I'll go with the 9/16" hole that you suggested; I was waffling between that and a 5/8.

[John TenEyck]

No offense, but you would do well to heed Joe C's advise. It's a simple solution and won't show when done. If you try drilling the hole and something goes wrong there is no easy remedy.

John

[mreza Salav]

Long flush bolts I've seen don't have 1/2" or 5/8" all the way. As suggested only a top section is that thick and the rest is most likely only 1/4" or so.
Drilling that long and straight in end-grain is extremely difficult. I suggest you try that on scrap before on the actual door. Very high chance of not getting the hole straight and where you want it.
I'd probably make a groove cut in the edge and then fill it.

[Joe Calhoon]

This is what a 12” Baldwin looks like, 24” similar just longer
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T astrigal covering the groove is the most elegant way. We usually drill the end hole then the groove doesn’t have to be very wide. Matched grain fill if not using a astrigal.

[Tom M King]

I just made the guide blocks, for the drill shank, out of wood. Bolts looked just like the one in Joe's picture. The door I drilled them into was Mahogany. Last I heard, still working after 40 years, or so. I did use a T-Astragal on those doors, but was planning to anyway.

[Joe Calhoon]

Not impossible to drill. Early on we would drill deep as possible with a horizontal dowel drill machine and finish with a long Electrican drill same size in a hand drill.
30 years ago we did a door job for Disney World that required 1” hole in stile ends for break away hardware. I don’t remember how deep,24” plus at least. Laid the drill press horizontally with a complex jig and drill extensions. It was hit and miss, ruined a few stiles in the process. Done before door assembly.
In the end we found out a inlayed groove would have been acceptable. Miscommunication between architect and job supervisor...

[brian zawatsky]

So after spending the last 4 days finishing up another project, I've come back around to this flush bolt issue. I spent a few hours today making a simple adjustable jig to (hopefully) guide a long drill bit. Here's the jig:
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The sliding arm is 1.375" thick riftsawn white oak, as I wanted something that wouldn't flex easily. Turns out I coulda used solid steel and it wouldnt have mattered at all. All went well until I reached the point where more of the bit was in the wood than in the jig, and at that point the bit followed the grain literally every time. I tried it on 4 scrap pieces with the same result every time.

I have no problem admitting I was wrong, and in this case its pretty clear that i was totally wrong LOL! So I am going to take the suggestion of a few of you guys and rout a groove into the edge of the door which will be plugged afterword.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, guys.

[mreza Salav]

Thanks for reporting back, although I am not surprised. If it wasn't along the grain or if it was softer wood you'd have had more chance of success.

[brian zawatsky]

Finished these doors up a few weeks ago, and forgot to post the final pics! In the end I'm happy with the result. Solid sapele with shop sawn veneers & stave core construction, finished with Sikkens Cetol door & window. The top flush bolt is on a 24" extension rod, which was the reason for the original post in the first place. Weatherstrip is traditional spring bronze. Hinges are Waterson self-closers, expensive as hell but work great. Scribing the casing to the brick was a real hoot.

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[mreza Salav]

Looks really nice.

[Jim Becker]

Those look awesome!!

[Tom Bender]

Hi Brian
Beautiful doors. Thanks for sharing this journey with us. I would not have considered drilling but others seemed confident. And turners drill with great control so I believe it can be done.

Nice vise. If you have not tried leather faces you might really like them. Rubber cement right to the metal.

[brian zawatsky]

Thanks guys. It was a fun project. A bit stressful at times due to all the different concentric radii that had to line up nicely, but i enjoy a challenge.

[brian zawatsky]

Hi Brian
Beautiful doors. Thanks for sharing this journey with us. I would not have considered drilling but others seemed confident. And turners drill with great control so I believe it can be done.

Nice vise. If you have not tried leather faces you might really like them. Rubber cement right to the metal.


Thanks Tom. Leather faces for the Emmert are on my to-do list.

[Ray Newman]

Nice, very nice design and workmanship!

[Dave Sabo]

Very nice looking doors. That’s the darkest sapele I’ve ever seen, I like.

Would a cremone to match the handle have been acceptable ? That would be more typical, and easier to use.

And install :p

[brian zawatsky]

Nice, very nice design and workmanship!


Thanks Ray

[brian zawatsky]

Very nice looking doors. That’s the darkest sapele I’ve ever seen, I like.

Would a cremone to match the handle have been acceptable ? That would be more typical, and easier to use.

And install :p

Thanks Dave.

The sapele darkened considerably with the application of the "natural" colored Cetol D&W sealer which actually had an amber tint to it (reminded me a lot of the color of amber shellac). The Sikkens Cetol Door & Window finish imparted a really deep tone and nice gentle sheen to the wood without looking really filmy even after 4 coats. I'd use it again for sure.

I considered a cremone but the client didn't want surface mounted hardware, so flush bolts it was. The cremone would have been much simpler to install for sure, although in reality the flush bolts were really not too bad. Just had to think it through and take my time with the layout.

[Wes Grass]

Way too late, I know...

http://www.bagpipeworld.co.uk/bagpipe/making/drill.html

Basically a gun drill as already suggested, but practical to make. Anything with spiral flutes is going to be too flexible.

Gorgeous doors, BTW.

[brian zawatsky]

Way too late, I know...

http://www.bagpipeworld.co.uk/bagpipe/making/drill.html

Basically a gun drill as already suggested, but practical to make. Anything with spiral flutes is going to be too flexible.


Gorgeous doors, BTW.

Thanks anyway Wes. I'll keep it under my hat until next time.