Cosman Kerf X-10

[Bob Jones 5443]

Has anyone tried this kerf-finishing tool for half-blind dovetails? Is it worth buying?

Once again, Rob has mesmerized us with a dazzling demonstration of its use to punch out the remaining triangle of the kerf after sawing (at an angle) around the pins. It leaves a kerf straight down, all the way to the gauge line. To see it in action, start at 26:23 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx0tc-UGRXY&t=1646s

Here's the listing of the tool:

https://robcosman.com/collections/saws/products/rob-cosmans-kerf-x-10

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2302/5983/products/IMG_5823_1_1080x810_530x.jpg?v=1548601131

Expensive? Absolutely. Gimmick or useful? That's my question. Seems like it would simplify chiseling because you'd only need to pare out the end lap. Anyway he sure makes it look easy.

I can't believe I'm considering spending this much money for a tool like this.

I'll bet there are some here who know of a simple, inexpensive alternative to the fancy Kerf X-10. Or let's hear from the purists who only chisel at this step. Or maybe we'll see a testimonial for the X-10. Curious to hear.

[Michail Kyriazanos]

I know the alternative, a
0,5mm card scraper will do the job nicely. I started using one recently with a light mallet. Maybe I will make a folded back for it.

[David Bassett]

Has anyone tried this kerf-finishing tool for half-blind dovetails? ...

Something like that has been discussed many times, at least, over the last few years. Derek Cohen was the first to write about it that I noticed. He built one himself, and I'm sure has described it on his website if you can't find the description here. Taylor Toolworks had one that looks just like your picture under their TayTools brand. And as I recall several others have had solutions that serve the same purpose but with a different form factor, a card scraper corner being the least dedicated.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I may have answered my own question (while not reading the replies above!). I went out to the shop and found an old scraper that is exactly 0.025". Rob's fancy product is 0.025", he says, to make sure that there are no shelves left in the kerf after sawing on the diagonal with the dovetail saw, which has a 0.024" kerf.

Wouldn't you know, the scraper pounded right into the kerf. It's nowhere near as elegant as the brass-backed special tool with the mahogany handle, but it was basically free. I think I'm going to work it into my kit.

It looks like the Tay Tools part is "currently unavailable."

[Michael Fross]

Hello Bob,

I also was very intrigued last year concerning this tool and decided to make my own. I used the extras from a saw I had made so had the bit kicking around the shop. It's not the prettiest tool around, but works well.

One tip I've learned is to be sure to put a clamp across the dovetails with light pressure. You don't want the 1/2 pins cracking. Happened to me once before I started to use the clamps. This will depend on the species of wood as well as the thickness of the 1/2 pins.

Michael

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[Phil Mueller]

I purchased one from Ron Bontz a few years back. Beautiful tool. Works great. I agree with Michael that for a little extra peace of mind, clamp across the dovetails.

[Dennis Droege]

Amen. I noticed Frank Klaus doing this several years ago.

[Jim Koepke]

Ron Bonz's Kerf Maker is a great help with half blind dovetails.

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Before this my home brewed tool for this was a piece of broken saw blade also used as a scraper.

Not sure but one of the master woodworkers, may have been Frank Klaus (see note), used a piece of bandsaw blade with the teeth filed off. (Derek Cohen mentions Tage Frid for his first time seeing this done)

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

The first time I saw this was Tage Frid using a piece of bandsaw blade, about 20 years ago.

I can say, with some confidence, that I made the first dedicated kerfing tool. This was in 2011 - certainly long before Cosman ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/KerfChisel.html

https://i.postimg.cc/4x0vhnwT/Kerf-Chisel-html-m25a489f9.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I’ve used a .024 card scraper from Lee Valley for years. A few taps with a tack hammer and it works perfectly. Six bucks and easily replaceable if necessary.

[Ron Bontz]

Hi all and happy new year.
With respect to my little dovetail tool. I use 1095 spring steel, same as my saws, so the steel is not as brittle as a chisel. Mine can be tapped from two different directions. The top of the brass back or from the back of the handle. Wooden mallet preferred. Depending on your work position. They can be made with or without reverse teeth, no set of course, and are available in 3 thicknesses. 0.015", 0.020", and 0.025". The available wood species are several with a batch of resin infused curly maple slated to be turned in the next couple of months. I ran out of stabilized quilted/curly maple. Sorry. Otherwise, the card scraper works fine. As others have said, the method has been around for some time. Best wishes,
Ron

[Ethan Lorden]

I have been looking at this tool recently and decided to make my own out of an old cheap big box store hand saw.

Anyway, how much of a variance can there be between the thickness of the kerf extender and my dovetail saw plate + set ? just For reference I have a Veritas Dovetail saw which comes in at .026 including the set. Should the kerfing tool be the same thickness as the kerf left from my saw, or should it be slightly larger?

[Jim Koepke]

I have been looking at this tool recently and decided to make my own out of an old cheap big box store hand saw.

Anyway, how much of a variance can there be between the thickness of the kerf extender and my dovetail saw plate + set ? just For reference I have a Veritas Dovetail saw which comes in at .026 including the set. Should the kerfing tool be the same thickness as the kerf left from my saw, or should it be slightly larger?

My understanding is it should be the same size as the saw plate. It could likely be a bit thinner. If it were much thicker, it might be more likely to cause splitting.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Red Devil...UNION, N.J. USA No.4101



Rosewood and brass in the handle, very stiff blade....Bought mine for a dollar bill....just a simple "putty knife" nothing fancy...except..it is the same thickness as the saw's kerf.

Just used it last building some drawers....

[Graham Haydon]

Derek, on the basis that woodworking has been about rather a long time it's a strong comment to say you made the first dovetail kerfing tool. All manner of shop made devices have never been recorded.
Props for publishing your useful method before Cosman.

In regards to how useful it is, I don't know. Perhaps I'll need to try it some day and report back. If someone wants to drop their own money on any kerfing tool, go right ahead.

[Bob Jones 5443]

To my eye it looks like Rob Cosman and Ron Bontz make elegant tools designed explicitly for this purpose, to be used with the pride of someone who appreciates a well made tool. As I just happened upon this idea from the perspective of a dovetail newcomer, I wanted to explore any way to get this task done, perhaps without the expense. But now that I've taken a closer look at Cosman's tool, and a close look at Bontz's, I can see the appeal of either one. The influence of Tage Frid lives.

Others, like Michael Fross here, seem to have the skill to fashion their own beautiful tools. And then there's Derek the Resourceful, whom we all revere. I am not one of those. My nephew works in metal so I might ask him to see about a brass back for my scraper blade. But for now, it's the little rectangular blade and light hammer taps (making sure to clamp the sides first). I've spent too much collecting the toolkit already. I'm just glad the idea has been put in my head. It's time to make some joints.

By the way, Rob C. says his tool is the thickness of the kerf, not the plate, to avoid creating a diagonal shelf.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I LOVE mine from BontzSawWorks

https://www.bontzsawworks.net/home/half-blind-dovetail-tool/

If mine were stolen or disappeared, I would find a replacement right quick.

I generally clamp the sides when I use this, especially near the ends, just to make sure I do not do something crazy like split the board.

[Mike Brady]

[QUOTE=steven c newman;3084788]Red Devil...UNION, N.J. USA No.4101



Great idea, Steve, using a stiff paint scraper for dovetails. I tried using saw plate or a old card scraper quite a few years ago to help with making half-blinds. I had seen this technique used by an instructor from the North Bennett Street School. Pretty sure he didn't get his idea from reading this (or any other) woodworking forum. I had mixed success with it, depending on the species of wood being worked.

[steven c newman]

Here you go...
448785
Steel, brass, and rosewood....what more could you want....

[Rob Luter]

Here you go...
448785
Steel, brass, and rosewood....what more could you want....

Ha! For the win!

[Ron Bontz]

Ha. When I first got out of the military, many moons ago, I went through a painter's apprenticeship. That putty knife was our do all tool. Everything from scraping to freeing up stuck window jambs as well as opening up paint/ varnish cans. :) There were three versions of that putty knife. extra stiff, semi stiff and flexible. It was really just a matter of thickness. I would sharpen my stiff one for chisel work as well. I dare say I ruined a few tapping them with a hammer. :) I always had the red devil stiff and flexible with me. I still have a couple to this day and use them. Do they still make the wooden handled ones? I never cared for those plastic handled putty knives. An acquaintance that was using his for a dovetail tool was actually the person that got me to make my version. :)

[Bill Carey]

Back in my trimming days, I would always go over to the house where the tapers were working at lunch time cuz they had a griddle they put on the propane high hat heater to cook their lunch on and guess what the used for spatulas? Yep - the scrapers and mud knives. Best tacos and skirt steaks I've ever had.

[steven c newman]

And, in use...
448798
YMMV....

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, on the basis that woodworking has been about rather a long time it's a strong comment to say you made the first dovetail kerfing tool. All manner of shop made devices have never been recorded.
Props for publishing your useful method before Cosman.

In regards to how useful it is, I don't know. Perhaps I'll need to try it some day and report back. If someone wants to drop their own money on any kerfing tool, go right ahead.

Ron Bonz make his kerfing tool before Rob Cosman produced his. While, as far as I can ascertain (I do research these things), mine was the first attempt to make a specialised tool (and not simply use the edge of a scraper). As far as I can tell, Ron was the first to make one one commercially.

Graham, in regard to its usefulness, unless you are in the habit of making hand cut half-blind dovetails, it would be difficult to appreciate how helpful this tool is. We are all following in the footsteps of Tage Frid, in this regard. He was no schmeckle (translation from Yiddish, "dickhead").

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom M King]

Thanks for my new word for the day! The dog forums I frequent is mostly occupied by ladies. They often refer to their Dear Husbands as DH. I have often wondered if that was really how it was intended.

edited to add: I can remember making exactly 1 drawer with blind dovetails by hand. It was a replacement for an 18th Century Federal sideboard. I just used the saw. I'd tap it down a bit, and withdraw, repeat, repeat. I'd never seen anyone use one of these tools back then. The drawer front was Mahogany.

[Warren Mickley]

I have been making half blind dovetails for forty five years. I tried the scraper trick for a while around 1981, but I judged it a waste of time.

[Mark Rainey]

I have been making half blind dovetails for forty five years. I tried the scraper trick for a while around 1981, but I judged a waste of time.
I agree Warren. I think we can fall victim to buying another tool when it is not really necessary.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Mark, I am certain you’re right. But I suspect (hope?) tapping down on the angled pinboard cut will save a bit of paring, and at my level of (in)experience that is appealing. Especially if I can use a free scraper blade.

[Jim Koepke]

Mark, I am certain you’re right. But I suspect (hope?) tapping down on the angled pinboard cut will save a bit of paring, and at my level of (in)experience that is appealing. Especially if I can use a free scraper blade.

Bob, your are correct it will make paring go quicker. If you also make a cut in the center of the pin the waste can be popped out quickley.

If you check > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?258465 < scroll down to post #18 to see my use of a kerf cutter.

Having a special tool for this can be pleasing. Using what is already in the shop, "free scraper blade," is thrifty.

jtk

[Graham Haydon]

Derek, my point was not to argue about how useful it would be. You do good work and find the tool useful, that's great. I have no wish to change anything you do.

My issue was more that people seem to get caught up thinking they were the first to "invent" something. In this case you feel you are the first documented creator of this tool. That's fine too. But woodworking has a wider base than magazines and books.

If you are trying to infer I think Tage Frid was a "dickhead", well I'm not sure how you managed that leap. See paragraph two as to why I chose to respond.

[Charles Guest]

People have been tapping assorted bits of thin metal to finish into the corners of lap dovetails since time immemorial. You don't have to finish into the corner this way, but if you do you're in good company. Arguing what to use is like taking a stand on the type of broom used to sweep up at the end of the day. Who really cares?

[Derek Cohen]

...

If you are trying to infer I think Tage Frid was a "dickhead", well I'm not sure how you managed that leap. See paragraph two as to why I chose to respond.

Graham, that is the very opposite of what I stated! I think Tage Frid was a wonderful teacher and appeared to used tools in a flexible and innovative manner. Read what I wrote again.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Jones 5443]

Jim K., thanks for the idea of the third (diagonal) cut in the middle of the waste between the pins. This is a zero-stakes cut and it sounds like a victory tap on a 2” putt. Brilliant.

[Graham Haydon]

You made quite clear your respect for him. Your inference was that how dare I question a method, which I didn't, and then went on to add in that because I don't use the method I must somehow think another person is a "dickhead".
I questioned the logic of people thinking, in this case you, were inventors of a unique tool. Congrats, you think you were the first person you know of to make a kerfing tool. Do you have any more methods or tools that you feel you invented?

[Bob Jones 5443]

We sometimes find that words put into writing, however tongue in cheek, have an unintended way of screaming to the reader. Maybe a moment to let this one go?

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bob, your are correct it will make paring go quicker. If you also make a cut in the center of the pin the waste can be popped out quickley.

If you check > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?258465 < scroll down to post #18 to see my use of a kerf cutter.

Having a special tool for this can be pleasing. Using what is already in the shop, "free scraper blade," is thrifty.

jtk

Jim, now I've read through your tagged post and seen you in action with the Bontz kerf cutter, and also the mid-waste cuts in the pin board. Nice.

Can't remember if I've already said this here, but my big challenge is going to be sawing square. I further like your idea of cutting two tail boards at once –– seems like it might help keep things square to the face.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Bob, if your challenge is to saw square - which is the issue when sawing tails-first - then I suggest that you mark the cross lines with a knife, and not a pencil. Score the line deeply, and use the kerf to guide the teeth of the saw. There is even a kerf cutter (scraper) sold by Tite Mark for this purpose. A deeply knifed line has the same effect.

If you are using a fretsaw to remove waste from the tails, then a centre (third) saw cut is unnecessary. I recommend using a fretsaw to remove waste from both tails and pins.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

You made quite clear your respect for him. Your inference was that how dare I question a method, which I didn't, and then went on to add in that because I don't use the method I must somehow think another person is a "dickhead".
I questioned the logic of people thinking, in this case you, were inventors of a unique tool. Congrats, you think you were the first person you know of to make a kerfing tool. Do you have any more methods or tools that you feel you invented?

Graham, you have completely misread what I wrote.

Your comment was to the effect - as I read you - that I was calling Tage Frid a dickhead. I simply stated that I had not, and that you should read what I wrote again ... to recognise the double negative. I have known you a long time, and we have been cyber friends in this time, and I have never insulted you before. Why would I start now?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Jones 5443]

Hi Bob, if your challenge is to saw square - which is the issue when sawing tails-first - then I suggest that you mark the cross lines with a knife, and not a pencil. Score the line deeply, and use the kerf to guide the teeth of the saw. There is even a kerf cutter (scraper) sold by Tite Mark for this purpose. A deeply knifed line has the same effect.

If you are using a fretsaw to remove waste from the tails, then a centre (third) saw cut is unnecessary. I recommend using a fretsaw to remove waste from both tails and pins.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks, Derek. I've ordered Cosman's marking knife, which has teeth and set to match his saw. Upper photo:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2302/5983/products/IMG_9313_1080x810.JPG?v=1597850184

I expect to use it to mark out the pinboard from the tails before chopping out the tail waste (Cosman's method). For starting the tails, I'm wondering if his knife would give me the same result as the Tite-Mark kerf starter you suggested. It's hard to discern how the Tite-Mark is built, the photos are so small on the website. This copy of the photo suggests teeth, but I think it's only pixelation:


https://www.glen-drake.com/images/D/KF-1-02.jpg

The description says it "looks like a knife but works like a scraper," and says it takes a "shaving the same way other scrapers remove shavings." It talks about using a flat burnisher to keep it sharp. So based on the brief text description, it does NOT seem to be similar to Cosman's marking knife with the saw teeth. Do you have this tool? Can you describe how it's built and how it works for you?

[Derek Cohen]

Bob, I do have a Kerf Starter. It, along with the joinery saw, was sent to me for a review in 2012. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw.html

Here is an extract ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_m5bb70bfa.jpg


I like the way this tool created a clean kerf for the saw. I can see it being particularly useful for beginners and advanced users alike.


Here is the marked edge, now ready for sawing.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_592a4348.jpg




I am not sure whether Kevin would advocate scoring the diagonal lines with the kerf starter or not. I chose to pencil them in, as is my usual method.




http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_e897b26.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_5ac82f36.jpg

I think the Kerf Starter is an excellent tool. It should work similarly to Cosmon's sawtooth knife, but I expect it to more controllable when marking out in hard woods (no teeth to wander in the grain). I occasionally use it, and then marvel at how useful it is.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Graham Haydon]

"I can say, with some confidence, that I made the first dedicated kerfing tool. This was in 2011 - certainly long before Cosman ..."

This was the point I was commeting on, not the method. It's a bold statement and made me roll my eyes.

The separate issue is I don't have to find value or agree with your methods. This does not diminish you or me.
There are too many ways to do a job, you favour your approach as do many others.

Highlighting a highly skilled woodworker and pointing out he used a version of the method and he was not a DH was not needed. I could do the same, but we're all smart enough to try something and review it's effectiveness in our setting. For me it did not help get your point over. Plenty of other people don't use the method and aren't a DH. At best there is lost humour here, at worst a veiled put down.

I enjoy seeing your work and respect your approach and I look forward to more in the future.

[Charles Guest]

Isn't an old section of saw blade, or a scraper converted for the task a "dedicated" tool? Everything doesn't have to have a handle on it. Sometimes it's best they don't.

Here's something for fans of less exposed joinery. In the 18th century piece below, the rather famous woodworker likely from a renowned family of cabinet makers covered dovetails with what amounts to a thick veneer. Some might find this liberating, others may think "well, if I can't display my hard earned joint-making skills, then what?" How about a toast to beautiful overall proportions, tasteful and subdued surface ornamentation impeccably wrought, perfectly proportioned and executed legs, all way more difficult to achieve (on the fly, with a living at stake, and employees to pay!) than a snug dovetail. Nice bit of narrative as well about the division of labor. Working against the clock and a hungry stomach puts a different gloss on things. To pull off now recognized works of art under those pressures was quite a feat, and you were only as good as the last piece that went out the door with the invoice paid in full.

With regard to more modern tastes and fashion, when Krenov didn't want joinery to spoil the look and flow of grain and color of the wood he simply used dowels. He didn't need to endlessly impress himself with an ability to cut dovetail joints. I think when you're able to opt for a simpler joint, to get out of the way of the design and the material, then a milestone will have been reached. Pieces just smothered in exposed joinery just don't do it for me personally, but that's why they make chocolate and vanilla too. I've seen beautiful work posted on this forum that I think would have looked infinitely better had joints not been of the exposed type. Infinitely better. That's a tough design decision to make when you seemingly need continuous reassurance from others that you're a competent craftsman. The crowd that will cheer-lead a well cut dovetail joint is far larger than the crowd that will cheer-lead a design decision to forgo them altogether, or subdue them in some other manner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pASdFYNPIk&list=PL71EFD735F41533E7&index=1&t=86s&ab_channel=NewportRestorationFoundation
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pASdFYNPIk&list=PL71EFD735F41533E7&index=1&t=86s&ab_channel=NewportRestorationFoundation)
Jeffrey Greene: https://jeffreygreenenewport.com/

(https://jeffreygreenenewport.com/)

[Derek Cohen]

"I can say, with some confidence, that I made the first dedicated kerfing tool. This was in 2011 - certainly long before Cosman ..."

This was the point I was commeting on, not the method. It's a bold statement and made me roll my eyes.

The separate issue is I don't have to find value or agree with your methods. This does not diminish you or me.
There are too many ways to do a job, you favour your approach as do many others.

Highlighting a highly skilled woodworker and pointing out he used a version of the method and he was not a DH was not needed. I could do the same, but we're all smart enough to try something and review it's effectiveness in our setting. For me it did not help get your point over. Plenty of other people don't use the method and aren't a DH. At best there is lost humour here, at worst a veiled put down.

I enjoy seeing your work and respect your approach and I look forward to more in the future.

Graham, I think that we are separated by different versions of English - the average Aussie would have realised that I was paying a compliment (not making a criticism). I think that we should drop the subject.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Graham Haydon]

Charles, you have hit on the point I was trying to convey.
I have a triangular piece of wood with a sharp screw set in it. It belonged to my Great Grandfather and would of been made and used anytime from 1909 onwards. It's his take on a scratch tool. I've not seen a triangular one before. Funnily it was never named the GSH scratch stock. It was simply a shop made tool, a version of millions of other scratch tools that went before.

But I'll book mark this page. If I see another tool that looks like it I'll make sure to make a point of saying, "that's cool, I use something similar." I won't add that he my made the first documented triangular profile version. It would be a baseless and pointless comment. To think your the first to do something in woodworking is beyond rare.

[Derek Cohen]

OK, I get it now ... why if it is not one issue, it is another.

I checked out past posts. Graham, you just visit SMC to heckle. You do not offer solutions, only fault-finding and criticism. You must be very bored, angry or both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Graham Haydon]

Not at all. I comment when I feel appropriate. I contribute to SMC and UKWS as most other forums have become quiet over the years. I was a moderator on another forum for a while so it's unlikely a serial fault finder and critic would be welcome.

"why if it is not one issue, it is another.' I'm sorry you feel that way. These issues often arise as we are not talking in person.

I've regularly complimented both you and others on process and final results. The fact that we don't always agree is a good thing. People like Warren have pushed us to get more out of our tools and have faced resistance. I know for sure that I have learned plenty from him and others, you included.

Regards From Devon

Interested and Happy 😊

[Tom M King]

This idea of the kerf starter, or whatever it's called, is pretty entertaining, to me. All handtool workers know that you aren't a real man unless you sharpen your edges by hand alone, but you need a special tool to be able to start a saw??? I also understand that you're not a real man unless you start the sawing process by only going forward, but if one would lower themselves enough to pull the saw backwards, to start, while giving support the the saw blade with the thumb of the other hand, you might find it's easier, and quicker than using a special tool. Now, a sharp saw makes this even easier, and quicker, so if you wait to long to sharpen your saw, or to send it to someone else to sharpen, you may be back inside the circle of needing one of these tools.

Surely, if you can sharpen an edge by hand alone, you can start a saw.

Try making a bunch of practice cuts on scrap boards. I don't think it will take That many repetitions to leave how to start a cut, and maintain it. After practicing a bunch with a line, try another bunch without the square line. You may surprise yourself at how quickly you will start to see square. It's no harder than seeing straight, but does require some experience.

[steven c newman]

Been reading through this thread......some of the replies....LMAO.....LMAO,ROTFL.....

Sounding almost like....."Whose on First"...by Abbott & Costello.......

What's next? "Can only be done with THIS steel.." Needs 4 different bevels to work ( no, doesn't work with even just a single one)

Or...maybe like the old "Hong Kong Kung Fu" movies....." My Sensei is better than your Sensei! He is the one true and only path" "But mine came first......"

Back to woodworking, Gentlemen.....as the Barkeep is wont to call out....."Time!"

Starting to sound like two Irishmen....standing on a corner..arguing around a battle 400 yrs ago, like they were actually in it.....( something about the colours Orange and Green?)

[Graham Haydon]

Tom, I'm with you. But I would add that I'm fine with whatever tool or process someone chooses.

I think it's easy for you to forget how good you are as you are a professional, you're not playing. I'm not going to rate myself in your league, but I'm still aware of how I learned my trade and it is exactly as you describe.
Difficult cuts in less than ideal situations help develop a feel for plumb and square.

I'd advise people, even if they want to do the finest work, start with gross movements. Cut a 4x2 to length, square and true. Start with square lines then only rely on a pencil tick. A couple of weekends should do it. Then onto something smaller, then smaller again until someone is doing neat joinery. Worked for me during my apprenticeship, YMMV.

The only issue for most people is they are having fun in the limited time available. Likewise, experimenting with processes and tools is something people get a kick from.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bob, I do have a Kerf Starter. It, along with the joinery saw, was sent to me for a review in 2012. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw.html

Here is an extract ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_m5bb70bfa.jpg


I like the way this tool created a clean kerf for the saw. I can see it being particularly useful for beginners and advanced users alike.


Here is the marked edge, now ready for sawing.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_592a4348.jpg




I am not sure whether Kevin would advocate scoring the diagonal lines with the kerf starter or not. I chose to pencil them in, as is my usual method.




http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_e897b26.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw_html_5ac82f36.jpg

I think the Kerf Starter is an excellent tool. It should work similarly to Cosmon's sawtooth knife, but I expect it to more controllable when marking out in hard woods (no teeth to wander in the grain). I occasionally use it, and then marvel at how useful it is.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Derek,

Thanks again for the sage counsel. I've glanced through your 2012 review and look forward to savoring it soon.

Cheers,
Bob

[Ron Bontz]

If this against the rules, feel free to remove.
But I do make my little dovetail tools with reverse teeth as well. ( Kerf starters )The 0.025" have 16ppi and the 0.020" version are currently 18ppi. I will probably change that to 16 down the road. Just started another batch.
Best wishes

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Graham, I think that we are separated by different versions of English - the average Aussie would have realised that I was paying a compliment (not making a criticism). I think that we should drop the subject.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Nah, all y'all just need to insult correctly....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAy4zULKFDU&list=LLHJNHNqcoNe_IkTClNGcXIA&index=325

To clue you in.... "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries".

[Andrew Pitonyak]

You are not a "real dovetailer" unless you can do those ultra fine dovetails with a chain saw. And you are "neader", you use a bicycle powered chainsaw. Just saying. I use a 36" bar when I cut mine!

[Bob Jones 5443]

Not to flog a deceased equine, but here's what I've decided to use to bottom out half-blind pin-board kerfs. It's simply a chunk of maple left over from the Moxon vise build, and a 4 x 5" rectangle cut off from a hand saw decades ago. Here it is, upside down from how it's used:

449239

I simply cut a kerf into the maple with my dovetail saw and pounded the 0.025" plate into the kerf. It takes quite a lot of pull to remove it, so I'm not going to try. If I had the wherewithal to cut steel, I'd reduce the 4" dimension by about an inch.

I burnished the business edge of the plate and it follows my backsaw right down to the bottom of the pin-board kerf with a few light taps on the maple. The working corner of the plate is in the upper right in the photo.

When I started out working with wood I was permitted to shadow a cabinet maker in his large shop, and he showed me some of the ropes. One of them was the use of a scraper. He picked up one on his bench and let me take it home. That scrap of steel has somehow wound up kicking around in my shop for all these years.

This tool won't win any beauty contests, but it fits in my hand nicely, it's stout, and it works every time. It is a new and welcome member of my kit.

[Jim Koepke]

If you are using a fretsaw to remove waste from the tails, then a centre (third) saw cut is unnecessary. I recommend using a fretsaw to remove waste from both tails and pins.

My suggestion for the center kerf is only for cutting half blind pins. It wouldn't make sense for through dovetails or a tail board on half blinds.

Unless you have a fret saw trick for getting it into the corners of a half blind pin board. :D

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Bob, you will find that a dedicated tool makes this task easier. One of the reasons I designed mine after a chisel is that it is intuitive to use, and the remove ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/MakeKerfingChisel_html_63d1a258.jpg

The saw-style may work for you equally well. I imagine (it is a long time since I tried one), that the leverage to remove a chisel-style makes this easier.

There is a to-do on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/MakeKerfingChisel.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Bob, you will find that a dedicated tool makes this task easier.

Yes, whether shop made or made by a professional it can make cutting half blinds much easier.

Besides, my old piece of saw blade is also my best scraper. Hitting it with a mallet was damaging the mallet. Didn't want to mess up the scraper by hitting it with metal.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

Derek and Jim, thanks for furthering the discussion.

Derek, I am not in possession of the skill to make the tool you describe (no lathe, no way to make a ferrule). I can see the mechanical advantage from being able to dislodge the chisel-form tool by levering it backwards. However, in a kerf that is never likely to be more than 1" deep, I can back out my crude tool well enough. I've even tried it in kerfs that are the depth of my dovetail saw's plate.

Jim, the truth is (dare I admit it) that I haven't really used the scraper. I know, I should probably pick up the method for fine finishing, but I seem to be able to get glossy-smooth surfaces with my 4-1/2 after all else is said and done. As far as striking the tool is concerned, the Frankenstein tool I fashioned allows me to use a 375 g Gennou hammer with light taps that hit the maple, not the metal. I went to this form factor after first hitting the bare plate with the hammer on edge. I quickly saw that was unsustainable; hence the blocky, clunky tool.

Could this thing have become more streamlined and elegant-looking? Certainly. But I made it after making one saw cut and easing the wood corners. One of the reasons I love SMC is that I can actually post fairly monstrous results with work and shop-made tools. Good thing I'm not trying to land a FWW article deal.