Woodworking Machinery

[Paul B. Cresti]

Ok guys & gals due to some of the recent postings and responses I have decide to run a poll of questions and will ask everyone to post their thoughts on the following subjects. Please respond to the questions by number. So here it goes:

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?

[JayStPeter]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?
I buy my tools based on value and bang for the buck. My hobby has a limited budget for equipment and wood each year. I have to balance those.



2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?
I spend a similar amount of time and money on my shop and on my projects. As such, I do have similar pride in each. My tools themselves are only part of my overall shop.



3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?
No. I buy based on value.



4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?
Whatever works at my budget. My budget is decidedly Asian, but I do have some US made machines and a bunch of european handheld power tools. Right now, I'm actually considering replacing one of my expensive european made routers with a less expensive Asian one based on not meeting my expectations (ie not good value).



5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?
Not entirely true, but mostly.

I don't think these are very good questions because nobody can answer them without considering value. Even you could easily double what you've spent on your tools, but you obviously feel what you have is the best value for your needs.

Jay

[Scott Banbury]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?


I buy the best quality I can afford to do the job that needs to be done. If I can't afford decent quality, I make do with handtools or innovative jigging until I can. Example, I regularly saw out 20"-28" clear lumber on my Woodmizer but haven't found a 30" jointer that I can afford, so I work the my rough and smoother until I do.


2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?

The piece in the client's space is what I take pride in. I take satisfaction from running well-tuned machines.


3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?

Yes, as long as the premium wasn't outrageous and the company was really passing along that premium to its employees.


4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?

No, as long as they are both the same quality.



5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?


My Grizzly stuff does exactly what I bought it for. So does my Delta, Porter Cable, Milwaukee, Bosch, Harbor Freight, etc.

The only tools I have that I take any particular pride in owning are my Woodmizer, my 36" American BS and my collection of antique handtools. I wouldn't trade them for anything :cool:

[Allen Grimes]

Ok guys & gals due to some of the recent postings and responses I have decide to run a poll of questions and will ask everyone to post their thoughts on the following subjects. Please respond to the questions by number. So here it goes:

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?Right now the machines I am buying are being bought based more on price than quality, because I lost a lot of money and need to fill my shop as I am trying to start a business. But, I do try to buy the best tool I can afford. Its just that right now, I can only afford to buy Grizzly.

Power tools on the other hand I buy strictly based on quality. Money isnt really a factor, here, though I did buy the Bosch 1619EVS over the Festool 3.5hp, because I couldnt see how the Festool would be worth more, and though Im happy with it and even more because it is made in the US, I will probably buy the Festool router later to have as my handheld since its 2 pounds lighter.


2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?I do take a little pride in my tools, and I dont loan them out to anybody that I dont think knows how to properly care for them, but I take much more pride in my designs.


3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?I would, if it was well, made, but I'm not going to buy junk just because it says made in the USA on it.


4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies? I see every country outside of North America as the same. England is no better to me than China or Italy.


5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?I care very much what is in my shop. I also dont like wasting money. I know you are not a Grizzly fan, but they provide me with the opportunity to make money a lot sooner than if I was to buy all MiniMax tools, and right now, that is what is most important to me.

[Marcus Ward]

There is a large (probably the majority) group of amateur photographers who are more in love with the gadgetry than the product of the gadgetry. Their creations tend to be soulless, trite, garbage. I always try to avoid this sort of mentality in my endeavors. Being a guy it's sometimes difficult not to love the tools, but really it's about what you're making with your woodworking tools than your woodworking tools. That is not to say you shouldn't take pride in them and take care of them, but we're craftsmen who work in wood, not collectors of machinery. At least, I'm not. ;)

edit: I guess I should at least answer the questions:

1. As much quality as I can afford.
2. Less pride than the work. It's about results.
3. I definitely won't pay more just because it's made here.
4. Nope.
5. I don't care as long as it gets the job done well and efficiently.

[Gary Curtis]

1) Purchase choice is prompted by quality.
2) DNA (can't do any work until my shop can be occupied)
3) I prefer North American ( I bought a General TS from Canada)
4) I prefer European --- by far.
5) I care.

Gary Curtis

[Don Baer]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?

I buy my tools based on Value. Will the tools do the job to my satisfaction. Not only will it meet my present needs but will it also meet the needs of my future needs.

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?

Again I buy tool based on needs therefor the pride I take in my tools is based on there ability to do a job with my limited skills.

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machines?

This used to be the case but recentlyit's getting harder and harder to find out where tools area realy made.

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?

NOPE

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?

In a manner of speaking, Yes.

[John Buzzurro]

1) Quality is most important. Price is secondary.
2) I'd rather know that I did the best job I know how to do. Tools are just a means to an end.
3) If I have a choice of the same quality machine between US-made and Foreign, I'd choose US. Quality is the driving factor, though.
4) No.
5) I do care what's in my shop. I want tools that are going to perform well, and last.

[Ernie Hobbs]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?
Quality and compete for price in that group. I look for used first so I can get a higher quality at a cheaper price

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?
I take pride in my tools but, what comes out of your shop is most important. If you have great tools and do crappy work, then they were just a big waste of money. The source of pride is the skills associated with the work produced.

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?
No. However I do prefer to find old US machinery, before the standards went down. US companies must provide a superior product if they want to charge more. Competition is what makes this country great. Good companies will find a way to make a better product, eventually.

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?
No.
5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever
Yes, but only to a certain exent. See answer 2.

[Travis Porter]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?
Quality first, price second. Have learned there are many different levels of this since joining this site though. I thought a PM66 was the cream of the crop until I have seen and read some of the stuff on Minimax, Felder, etc.

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?
About the same. Depends on the tool and situation.

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?

I have tried to buy US, and have been burned by it. Case in point I specifically bought a DJ-20 jointer a few years back because it was US made. Only the stamped steel base was US made. All cast iron was made in Taiwan.

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?

Yes. I believe European is of higher quality and precision in most instances. Same goes for hardware like euro hinges, slides, etc.

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?
If it does so with accuracy. I have a Grizzly planer that does very well for what I need and would buy it again. Same goes for my PM66. I have begun to use a little logic on some things though where if I am not sure it is something I am going to use heavily, I might buy a cheap one just to see if it is something I will use a lot. Router bits are a good example. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[tod evans]

Ok guys & gals due to some of the recent postings and responses I have decide to run a poll of questions and will ask everyone to post their thoughts on the following subjects. Please respond to the questions by number. So here it goes:

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?

i buy my tools based on whether or not they will perform as i need them to, and the performance i require usually carries a hefty price tag. but i deal with the price upfront not later.

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?

my tools are a means to an end, i take very good care of them because they enable me to be efficient in my production. yes i`m proud of my equipment but only for what it lets me achieve.

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?

i chose imported tools because they filled a need in my shop i was unable to fill with the current products offered by american manufacturers, so for me the choice has been made.

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?

most definately!

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?
i`ve been in this business long enough that i own tools that will last me the rest of my life so regardless of what offerings are made by the manufacturers i seriously doubt i will be changing equipment because of color or country. only if i outgrow my machines would i consider change and that`s highly unlikely........02 tod

[Tyler Howell]

Knowledge is power.
Until the last 10 years I really didn't know there was anything but Cman out there.
Now I shop for value and quality based on personal experience and recomendations of others.
As Tod said "this stuff will out live me".:o

[Roger Bailey]

[1] BOTH-I buy the best tool for the money.

[2] YES-I spend good hard earned money for all my tools, I take pride in knowing my tools will do the jobs I need them to. The end product is how well the user can use those tools.

[3] NO-Go back to question [1]

[4] YES-On most products

[5] YES-I care very much about the tools I buy.

You can ride a horse or drive a rolls royce....I don't see alot of either on the road.

[Mark Singer]

I buy good tools....I appreciate them. For me they are a means of creating and not an end....My work is most important...the tools just help me produce it. I see very long discussions about different machines and tolerances and it really bores me...who cares? If you are a machinist it is important. Once in a while I upgrade something if I think it will make a difference ....Like with sking or tennis or many things...the guy that knows what he is doing with the cheap skis or tennis racket can out play or ski the guy that just went to the sporting boutique and layed some heavy cash down....he looks funny falling down the slope in his Fila one piece outfit:rolleyes: The work is most interesting and justifies a nice shop and good tools...look at the Krenov , and Frid books....humble shops...great work!...Paul, Maloof doesn't have a sliding saw....e can afford one no problem!
It is great to use a competent machine you can count on....that is ready to go when you are, without fussing. It is hard to by USA amnymore...my saw is from tennessee and my Jointer is US also , I believe...I do think the Euro stuff is top quality, and the Asian stuff is getting a lot better...the old American stuff is great also...nice to have, and for woodworkers interested in the craft, even better to use

[Dan Larson]

For me woodworking is just a hobby. The only reason why I do it is for relaxation, happiness, and personal satisfaction. Although finished projects are a great source of pride for me, generating maximum enjoyment from the actual process of building projects is no less important to me. Let's face it-- quality tools are fun to use. And crappy tools tend to be frustrating to use. So well engineered and well build tools are important to me. I prefer to buy really nice tools only occasionally, rather than compromise on quality in order to get every type of tool that I think I'd need right away. Quite honestly, I don't focus so much on where my tools have been manufactured. I didn't buy a Lie-Nielsen block plane because it was made in Maine. I bought it because it's a great tool. Would I feel the same way about it if it were made in China? You betcha!

[Dev Emch]

I buy the best and pass on the rest. SImple. Sometimes that means buying machines to rebuild because the top end makers have all gone under sadly.

But also bear in mind that many woodworkers are bottom feeders by their very nature. This engrained mentality means that they will buy a cheap import or vist a dozen auctions before finding what will work and not necessarily what they want.

[Howard Norman]

Ok guys & gals due to some of the recent postings and responses I have decide to run a poll of questions and will ask everyone to post their thoughts on the following subjects. Please respond to the questions by number. So here it goes:

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?
Both, but price is always a consideration.
2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?
Same
3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?
No
4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?
Of course, European manufactured are not in my price range.

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?
Just about true.

[Glenn Clabo]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?
I buy what I need at the price I feel gives me the tool I want. I don't make a living at woodworking so it's always tough for me to get over the need part. I learned to do most everything with very simple tools.

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?
Absolutely not. Tools don't create anything.

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?
I buy the machine I want at the price I want to pay. Doesn't matter anymore.

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?
Tools is tools for me.

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Philip Glover]

1) Quality and best value for me is most important.

2) The same level of pride - it must be excellent.

3) I will buy American machines if they are of better capability or quality.
The age of the machine does not matter to me.

4) Absolutely.
I will not buy Asian machines.
I don't have anything against Asian countries - I just don't like their machines.
Asian machines will have to improve by an order of magnitude before I'll buy one.

5) I will not waste money on machines that I am not delighted with.

I am planning to build a new shop and there are no Asian machines on my list. My wife has braced her self for all of this, and yes, she is familiar with names like Martin, Hofmann, SCMI, Format 4, Yates, Oliver (green), Oakley, and Northfield. She's okay with this as long as I don't start complaining about the machines or service.
Most people that read this will think I'm a machine snob. This is true.
My professional life has taught me that the best machines are the easiest to work with.

Regards,
Phil Glover

[tod evans]

1) Quality and best value for me is most important.

2) The same level of pride - it must be excellent.

3) I will buy American machines if they are of better capability or quality.
The age of the machine does not matter to me.

4) Absolutely.
I will not buy Asian machines.
I don't have anything against Asian countries - I just don't like their machines.
Asian machines will have to improve by an order of magnitude before I'll buy one.

5) I will not waste money on machines that I am not delighted with.

I am planning to build a new shop and there are no Asian machines on my list. My wife has braced her self for all of this, and yes, she is familiar with names like Martin, Hofmann, SCMI, Format 4, Yates, Oliver (green), Oakley, and Northfield. She's okay with this as long as I don't start complaining about the machines or service.
Most people that read this will think I'm a machine snob. This is true.
My professional life has taught me that the best machines are the easiest to work with.

Regards,
Phil Glover

phil, i for one would love to see your shop as you build it and when complete.(yeah right, they`re never complete) but i still would like to see if you`ll share your journey? thanks, tod

[Ian Barley]

1 - Quality - Low quality at cheap price costs me too much money
2 - Less - I look for a satisfied customer - they couldn't care if I made the stuff with my teeth and a monkey wrench
3 - I substituted my own national bias - If I get the chance to buy "British" I do but there is precious little chance. Next choice is Europan. Then who cares.
4 - I prefer European when I can get the right machine.
5 - Product and safety are my only concerns - after that I don't much care what the colour is or what language the manual is translated from.

Having written this I did a quick inventory. Major machines in my shop come from Britain(4), Germany(2), USA(1), Italy(3), Taiwan(2) . The most expensive was from the USA and is a "unique in category" machine. Excellent quality and a $12,000 price tag. Best value is British.

[Chris Barton]

Ok guys & gals due to some of the recent postings and responses I have decide to run a poll of questions and will ask everyone to post their thoughts on the following subjects. Please respond to the questions by number. So here it goes:

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?

I buy the best quality machine at the best price available without regard to origin country.

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?

I respect and enjoy my tools but, they are just tools and builders from the Federal period made furniture that I can only hope to copy with tools of far inferior design.

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?

No, I simply will not pay extra for an item just based upon country of origin.

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?

I have found that some of the european machines do appear to be generally superior to some others. But, I have also found great values in the asian market as well.

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?

I care only to the point that I want a machine to do its job well and without a fuss.

[Bruce Page]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later)
· Quality, usually after a fair amount of homework.

<O:p2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?<O:p
· Yes, very much. There are some tools that I wouldn’t allow into my shop, HF comes to mind. To each his own.

<O:p3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?
· I certainly prefer American made but I’m not fanatical about it.

<O:p4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?
· I generally feel that the European machinery is of a higher quality level. They have been building quality machinery for decades.
<O:p

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever :D ?
· See #2<O:p

[Bart Leetch]

1) Do you buy tools based on price or based on quality (and then deal with the price later) ?

1A) Based on perceived quality with consideration to how I will use the tool balanced against price. Bang for the buck.

2) Do you take pride in your tools -less, same or more- then the actual work you do?

2A) Same.

3) If given the choice to buy USA made only machines at a premium would you choose to instead of buying an imported machine?

3A) Other than older floor model tools that may need overhaul How many American made tools companies are still manufacturing tools?

4) Do you place any distinction between machines imported from the Asian manufacturers and European direct Companies?

4A) Yes one is expensive enough but probably possible. The other out of reach without a long wait.

5) Do you plainly not care what the hell is in your shop as long as it cuts, shapes, sands or whatever ?

5A) I do care but my opinion about a tool may not be the same as someone else.

6) I do plan to up grade some of my tools in the future Possible an 8” Grizzly Jointer. Some time hopefully in the not to close future I'll have more tools from my Dad's shop but I'll be happy to just have him around using them for as long as possible.