V Carve Question

[vince mastrosimone]

I have a piece I want to make a V Carve file for. I traced the piece on paper with a pen, scanned it as a bitmap, imported it and converted to a vector. When I zoom in, there are two lines and when I double click on either black line I get two pink dashed vector lines. Why did I get two lines instead of one line on the bitmap import? I know dashed vector lines mean something and solid vector lines something else. How do I make the lines solid and what is the difference?<br><br>Thanks for help. Just plodding through the learning curve.

[David Buchhauser]

If you traced with a pen, then your tracing line width is probably so wide that both sides of the lines are being vectorized. You could probably delete one of the sets of vectors. I'm not sure why the lines are dashed and not solid pink, and a single click should turn the path from black to pink. Perhaps you could post some screenshots so we can see exactly what you have. Also post your bitmap file and I will take a look to see if I can clean it up for you.
David

[Jim Becker]

Dashed is a single vector. Solid is a grouped set of two or more vectors.

[vince mastrosimone]

Thanks for the offer David. I created a zip file with both the bmp and crv files. I hope you can help.

[Mark Bolton]

Bitmap trace will rarely if ever leave you with single line vectors. As David said, it will detect the thickness in the line and generate a vector on either side of the line (which is normal.. "the line" is actually its own entity)

Depending on the complexity of the drawing you may find that you have more post editing using bitmap trace than if you just loft lines around the sketch manually. On very complex traces it can save you a bit of time but even then you will more than likely still have a heavy amount of post processing/node editing after a bitmap trace. Where bitmap trace often shines is with thick line drawing that have well defined edges and very little noise in the source bitmap. Anything beyond that you will have a pretty hefty amount of cleanup.

Only you can decide if your faster getting some initial vectors from bitmap trace and then editing or just vectorizing the job from scratch. Perhaps not wise to weave another hefty variable into the process but you can often times come out ahead using a free program like Inkscape to generate clean vectors to then import into Vcarve for final tweak.

[vince mastrosimone]

Thanks Mark. I'll give Inkscape a try and see what I get.

[David Buchhauser]

Thanks Mark. I'll give Inkscape a try and see what I get.


Hi Mark,
I have downloaded your file and it does indeed have the usual problems from a hand trace. I will get back later today with a clean file and let you know how I edited it.
David

[Jim Becker]

MarK, thanks for the Inkscape recommendation. I plan on trying that out to see how well it will work for me, too.

[vince mastrosimone]

Thanks for doing that David

[David Buchhauser]

Hi Vince,
The bitmap from the scan of your hand tracing with pen would probably take many hours of node editing to clean up as a usable vector file. The easiest and quickest method to produce a usable vector file would be manual tracing in VCarve Pro. Here is how I would do it. It took me about 15 minutes to complete this process from start to finish.
David

Step 1 - Open your original bitmap file with Paint.net and invert colors. This will help with the visibility of the lines/curves while manually tracing.
448461

The resulting file will look like this. I normally save from Paint.net in jpeg format.
448462

Step 2 - Import jpeg to Vcarve Pro.
448463

Step 3 - Zoom in as shown, then use "Draw Curve" tool to manually trace around white path - trying to stay centered in the white path.
448464 448465

Under Edit, Snap Options - I have my snaps set as shown. The main thing is that I want to snap to end of curve, and I don't want to snap to grid. I very seldom use this program, and I am sure there are probably other snap setting that the "experts" would recommend.
448466

Here is the finished trace.
448467

[David Buchhauser]

Bitmap trace will rarely if ever leave you with single line vectors. As David said, it will detect the thickness in the line and generate a vector on either side of the line (which is normal.. "the line" is actually its own entity)

Depending on the complexity of the drawing you may find that you have more post editing using bitmap trace than if you just loft lines around the sketch manually. On very complex traces it can save you a bit of time but even then you will more than likely still have a heavy amount of post processing/node editing after a bitmap trace. Where bitmap trace often shines is with thick line drawing that have well defined edges and very little noise in the source bitmap. Anything beyond that you will have a pretty hefty amount of cleanup.

Only you can decide if your faster getting some initial vectors from bitmap trace and then editing or just vectorizing the job from scratch. Perhaps not wise to weave another hefty variable into the process but you can often times come out ahead using a free program like Inkscape to generate clean vectors to then import into Vcarve for final tweak.

I use Inkscape quite often for auto-tracing of bitmap images. In general, I use a combination of Paint.net, Inkscape, and Design Edge (in that order). Design Edge is my go-to for vector editing - it is a very powerful program (and expensive) - but is only available for purchase by owners of PlasmaCAM cnc plasma cutting tables.
David

Here is Joseph in Design Edge. I could have manually traced the bitmap in about 1/3 the time with this program, but I wanted to use VCarve Pro to show Vince how to do it.
448471

[vince mastrosimone]

David thank you for doing that for me. I appreciate your time and knowledge. It looks like the process is quite involved. I was hoping a quick scan would be all that is needed but alas that is not the case. I guess nothing worthwhile comes easy. It’s gonna take me some time to work through this. But thanks again for your help.

do you think turning down the resolution on the scan would help any?

[Mark Bolton]

do you think turning down the resolution on the scan would help any?

Other than a very bold, high contrast, sharp line reference image there is nothing thats going to give you a click and go option. You are likely just making it a bit more difficult than it actually is in your mind and hence shooting yourself in the foot. That image David processed for you is honestly about a 2-3 minute job straight in Vcarve using the draw curves and then a few seconds on node editing to smooth things up.

Now you get into things that are a bit more complex and there is more time in the curves/node editing but its really just wash rinse repeat when your working 2D-2.5D

Just give yourself some time and invest the time into figuring it out. Its not overly difficult.

[vince mastrosimone]

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Ronald Blue]

One thing to remember from my experience is you learn/retain by doing. If things get to out of whack and you are frustrated you can always start over with a couple clicks. But what I use a lot if I don't like what I'm seeing is to just either use the undo arrow or click on edit(I think) and it will be right there as first drop down too. Undo create whatever you just did. Use the feature of cutting the tool path on the screen if you produce the toolpath(s) as well. It's in the toolpath menu and has "play" arrows. See if it looks right there. I don't know a lot but you retain it by doing it. That said there are a lot of YouTube videos out there and they can be very helpful as well. In fact I sometimes have toggled back and forth from video to program until it makes sense. It's so easy to back a video up and watch the steps again. Some of them move to fast. They click from one thing to another so fast that it's difficult to see what they just selected. Other's do it slow enough that it's easy to follow. I will tell you this as well because this was told to me when I started the job I currently have. "It's highly unlikely you will do anything that someone else hasn't already done" so don't worry about it if you make a mistake. I still always keep a finger ready to abort the operation until I'm comfortable everything looks good. The only people that never make a mistake are the ones who never do anything. Not sure this helps a lot but just the observations of another ameteur. Luckily there are many experts here that are willing to share their expertise.

[David Buchhauser]

David thank you for doing that for me. I appreciate your time and knowledge. It looks like the process is quite involved. I was hoping a quick scan would be all that is needed but alas that is not the case. I guess nothing worthwhile comes easy. It’s gonna take me some time to work through this. But thanks again for your help.

do you think turning down the resolution on the scan would help any?

Hi Vince,
Turning down the resolution on the scan will not help. You never said what your end goal is with Joseph. Is this simply to learn how to convert bitmaps to vectors, or are you planning to engrave, route, or cut this shape on a cnc router, vinyl cutter, etc? There can be quite a difference between the result of a "quick & dirty" manual trace and that of a more detailed/accurate manual trace. It depends on how closely you want your final part to match the original. In any case, there are several techniques which you could employ to improve the quality of your bitmap image so that auto-tracing becomes practical.

Step 1 - Use a pen as you originally did to trace around your original onto a piece of dark colored paper.
Step 2 - With a sharp pair of scissors, cut along your traced line to produce a "template" of the original.
Step 3 - Scan your "template" to produce a bitmap file - as you originally did. If the "template" is too large to fit your scanner, place your "template" on top of a large white piece of paper (for contrasting background) and take a photo with your camera.
Step 4 - Import your bitmap file to VCarve Pro and auto-trace.
Step 5 - Edit as required.

I followed steps 1-3 above and here is the result of the scan.

448554
Here it is imported to VCarve Pro.
448555

Trace bitmap.
448556

Closed vector path after trace.
448557

Here are steps 1-3 but with the "template" photographed instead of scanned.

Photo of black template on white background.
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I used Paint.net to crop photo.
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Import to VCarve Pro.
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Closed vector path after trace.
448561

When using "trace bitmap" for photos, it can be helpful to increase the noise filter setting from the default to around 8-10 pixels.

[David Buchhauser]

Vince - here are the resulting dxf files from the "trace bitmap" operations above.
David

[David Buchhauser]

Vince - here are the resulting dxf files from the "trace bitmap" operations above.
David

[vince mastrosimone]

David,
I like your idea for cutting out the outline. I'm going to profile cut the piece from wood. Precision is not that important as it is supposed to be rustic.

I did some tracing but obviously I did something wrong. I know I need to trace on the bitmap layer but should Layer 1 be on as well. I don't why I got the offset. See attachment.

[David Buchhauser]

Hi Vince,
Are you using the "Trace Bitmap" command here, or are you manually tracing? Perhaps you could post the jpeg/bitmap file your are importing to VCarve Pro for your trace. Here is the scanned file I used for the auto-trace. You could try it with this one to see if it makes any difference. I will send you a PM.
David

[vince mastrosimone]

I thought I was following your instructions. I set up the snap options as suggested. It seemed to be going well. Here is the bitmap and the crv files.Thanks again for staying with me. I used the draw curves command not trace bitmap.

[David Buchhauser]

Hi Vince,
I am not able to open files from the trail version of VCarve Pro. So all I have to go by is your Mary jpeg. Here is my manual trace.
448667
And here is the quick engrave.
448668
David

[vince mastrosimone]

That's odd. Did you open the Joseph crv? Try this one.

anyway, what did I do wrong? Could you tell?

[David Buchhauser]

I can't open this one either. Here is the error message.
448672
Also you are using trial version 10, and I have version 9.5. Older versions apparently cannot open files created on a newer version.
I don't know what you are doing wrong. I have sent you a Private Message with my email address. Please email me and we can exchange screen shots to figure out what your problem is.
Thanks,
David

[Mark Bolton]

Trial versions cant open anything. And non trial versions can't open anything coming from a trial version. That's so somebody can't generate some vectors shipped somebody with a full version and get a viable workable file back.

[Jim Becker]

Mark is correct. Files from any Vectric trial version are not "cuttable" nor can they be transferred to a licensed version.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark is correct. Files from any Vectric trial version are not "cuttable" nor can they be transferred to a licensed version.

To my knowledge they are not only "not cuttable" but you cant even open them (hence his screen shot)

[Jerome Stanek]

Mark is correct. Files from any Vectric trial version are not "cuttable" nor can they be transferred to a licensed version.

That is false if you create a file in a trail version and then buy the a licensed version of it it will open as loand as the trial was created on the same computer.

[Mark Bolton]

That is false if you create a file in a trail version and then buy the a licensed version of it it will open as loand as the trial was created on the same computer.

We are referencing someone sending a file from a trial version to a licensed copy holder or vice versa. The OP posted a file from a trial version. No one with a paid copy will be able to open the file and ship it back to him or the other way around. Its pretty much a given that when you fork over your cash you will be able to "use" the work you created in the trial version. Thats just basic math.

[Jim Becker]

To my knowledge they are not only "not cuttable" but you cant even open them (hence his screen shot)

To clarify, I meant not cuttable with the trial software, if I'm not mistaken. Sorry I wasn't clear.

[Jim Becker]

That is false if you create a file in a trail version and then buy the a licensed version of it it will open as loand as the trial was created on the same computer.

Different computer is involved here so what I mentioned is true. But yes, the OP could buy a license and retain the work created with the trial.