MFT 3 alternatives?

[Andrew Wayland]

Are there alternatives to the MFT 3? I’m aware of the Kreg Accu-Cut, but are there others specifically for Festool?

(And I know I could make my own with MDF: but I don’t trust myself getting those holes aligned in any way close to what I’d consider “perfect”)

[Harvey Miller]

You can buy the Festool top separately for about $140US and if you check the local classifieds online you'll often find guys with CNC equipment knocking them out cheaper. They're considered sacrificial, so they get replaced periodically.

[Dan Rude]

You could try the Bora Centipede 20mm top. https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/work-benches/tables-stands/shop-stands/centipede-table-top-48-w-x-24-d-20-mm-dog-holes-96mm-on-center?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CjwKCAiA8ov_BRAoEiwAOZogwRJxFhWpZgCLC32IfdeO QXpLewPoD4Zg13rZ4CdGJSd5DYloCtVbnhoCMMkQAvD Or have one made. Dan

[Andrew Wayland]

You could try the Bora Centipede 20mm top. https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/work-benches/tables-stands/shop-stands/centipede-table-top-48-w-x-24-d-20-mm-dog-holes-96mm-on-center?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CjwKCAiA8ov_BRAoEiwAOZogwRJxFhWpZgCLC32IfdeO QXpLewPoD4Zg13rZ4CdGJSd5DYloCtVbnhoCMMkQAvD Or have one made. Dan

I’m liking this: although there aren’t many reviews on it.

Pair it with a track square with dogs, and I think I can pretty much do what the festool does? Granted: it’ll be a bit more fiddly than having the track on a hinge?

[Jim Becker]

That Centipede solution would work fine, especially if the two sides that span the hinge are exactly lined up. It would be more "wiggly" however, than the actual MFT. I have two of the Centipede folding supports which get a lot of use, both in my shop, and outside the shop, and have pre-made tops I can set on them when a solid surface is required. But I wouldn't give up my MFT for them, even though I rarely use it.

[Andrew Wayland]

That Centipede solution would work fine, especially if the two sides that span the hinge are exactly lined up. It would be more "wiggly" however, than the actual MFT. I have two of the Centipede folding supports which get a lot of use, both in my shop, and outside the shop, and have pre-made tops I can set on them when a solid surface is required. But I wouldn't give up my MFT for them, even though I rarely use it.

When you say “hinge” are you suggesting a similar track hinge to the MFT? I was personally just thinking about using one of the 90* track adaptors that have the optional screw-on dogs? Certainly a bit more involved than a hinge, but might get me by (I’m a seasonal hobbyist: so it wont get much use)

If so, is there a hinge that you’d recommend? (Just so I can start pricing out building something to be of similar spec to the MFT?


And while I have you: I notice the centipede top has metric and imperial options; would you advise one over the other?

Have you used the centipede on imperfect ground, such as a lawn (versus a concrete pad?)

[Mick Simon]

You could make Timothy Wilmots MFTC using his $10 plans. I made one several years ago and it's served me very well.
https://benchworks.be/downloads/mftc-plans/

[Jim Becker]

When you say “hinge” are you suggesting a similar track hinge to the MFT?

The specific product that the other person linked to for use on top of the Centipede has a hinge in the middle so it folds down to half-size for storage.

[Andrew Wayland]

The specific product that the other person linked to for use on top of the Centipede has a hinge in the middle so it folds down to half-size for storage.

Ah, I hadn’t considered how that would affect production. Might be a dealbreaker for me.

[Jim Becker]

Ah, I hadn’t considered how that would affect production. Might be a dealbreaker for me.
that specific product might not work if you need super precision between the two halves (and it's only an assumption that the hinge could introduce any variance...i don't want to trash the idea which is good for portability) but you can use the idea with a grid top that's one piece. I will tell you, however, that with the Centipede, it's "best" if whatever worksurface you put on it is a little oversize than 2'x4' nominal based on my experience. The two quick and dirty work surfaces I have were made with pre-cut 2'x4' plywood panels top and bottom with a sorta torsion box setup. They are easy to store, etc., when not in use. But when they are on top of the Centipede, they are just at the edges of the support. A little bigger would make things more stable, IMHO. Since you can get MDF in 49x97 sheets typically, it would be easy to make the work surface slightly oversized, but back when I made mine, I wasn't thinking about it. You can do your own grid, too, or have someone with a CNC cut it for you.

[Joe Mioux]

Parf Guide system.

then some additional TSO products.

I have this set up and like it.

It probably won't pay for itself until after two or three mdf table tops have been consumed by saw kerfs... but drilling the holes where ever you desire is a plus

[Andrew Wayland]

Is it better to go with a 20mm setup? Or a 3/4? Which has more accessories here in the US?

[Jim Becker]

Personal preference. There is a lot of support from companies like TSO and others for 20mm at this point. I only use 3/4" for traditional hold-fasts (Gramercy in my case) at this point and those can't be used in thin tops anyway.

[Andrew Wayland]

Reading more into this: it Almost seems my money is better spent on a parallel guide system than an MFT:

The MFT could be in the cards down the road: but for the larger cabinets I plan on making, I think I’m better off with parallels guides....

[Johannes Becker]

I have done long cabinet sides with two different parallel guides (Seneca and Festool) and it is not a foolproof path to precision either. I have used the MFT for years for shorter cuts and it shines when you need repeatability. I also build a Paulk workbench using the Parf guide system to drill the holes. They came out more precise on a 4x8 Paulk table. In fact it seems easier to get accurate results for long parts with my Paulk bench than with my parallel guides. I think the home build solutions (Wilmots, Paulk, Parfit, Millard, ...) are nice since you can adjust them to what you need and you are typically not out hundreds of dollars (but you need to invest some time). Some people on the FOG seemed to have good luck with the MFT slab (a 4x8 MDF with grid CNCed) if you can find a shop in your area to do one for you. I haven't tried that since there were no big CNCs in my neighborhood when I was looking into it. Overall the system of using a grid and dogs is great and I would just pick whichever one fits your upcoming projects and available space best.

[Andrew Wayland]

I have done long cabinet sides with two different parallel guides (Seneca and Festool) and it is not a foolproof path to precision either. I have used the MFT for years for shorter cuts and it shines when you need repeatability. I also build a Paulk workbench using the Parf guide system to drill the holes. They came out more precise on a 4x8 Paulk table. In fact it seems easier to get accurate results for long parts with my Paulk bench than with my parallel guides. I think the home build solutions (Wilmots, Paulk, Parfit, Millard, ...) are nice since you can adjust them to what you need and you are typically not out hundreds of dollars (but you need to invest some time). Some people on the FOG seemed to have good luck with the MFT slab (a 4x8 MDF with grid CNCed) if you can find a shop in your area to do one for you. I haven't tried that since there were no big CNCs in my neighborhood when I was looking into it. Overall the system of using a grid and dogs is great and I would just pick whichever one fits your upcoming projects and available space best.

Space is my biggest issue right now. I’m building a small shed to give me a little more room for tool storage and what-not, but most of my projects are just completed out in the back yard. It sometimes means I have to wait for snow to melt to get projects done.

I used to sometimes use the basement: but with a little one on the way: I think it’s best not to expose the household to dust/fumes.

It may not seem it the way I’ve been posting about new tools lately: but I have a bit of a budget to work with: I’m liking the idea of the centipede with a top to set up outside.... but I quickly realized their 2x4 top won’t be of much use if I’m making large pieces.

I suppose I could always get a centipede... invest in the parf guide.... and build my own bench top. But then I’m dealing with storing that.

My thought was going with those TSO parallel guides to use atop a centipede (which id cover with foam when I need to use it)

[Jeff Ranck]

This!!->>>
Parf Guide system.

...

You can build different carts, tables, etc. that have the correct pattern. I mostly use hand tools, but I use machines for all the rough processing, so these type of work tables either need to be either taken down or rolled out of the way in my shop. Being able to build the holes into a multifunction rolling cart is key in my shop.

[Ryan Yeaglin]

Lee valley has a parf drilling fixture, pretty expensive at $229 USD. One could do some simple layout and make a template out of 3/4" sheet goods and get the same results. They are 96mm center to center or 3.78" imperial measurement. Sorry don't have a love affair with Festool products, they are very nice yes, but very over priced in my opinion.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have an MFT 3, but find it a little too small in capacity to be really useful, so it mainly ends up being a bit of dumping ground.

I bought a $20 sheet of MDF and the Part Guide system and built an MFT style top that just lays on a bench. When not in use, it just stands on edge between a couple of tools against a wall.

It's about 4" longer and about the same in width, so I can overhang an end and side an use the dog holes for clamping, although most of the time, I use the dog holes for putting bench stops in.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop2_zpsvpkrlszb.jpg


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop3_zpsczfeejs4.jpg

[Joe Hendershott]

I think it depends on what you are planning the top for. If just cutting then a parallel guide might do you better. Initially I used mine a lot to cut on but recently not so much. I do use it daily to clamp pieces on for working like planning, sanding, to hold the LR32, etc. With a couple of clamps and dogs it is very versatile and gets used nearly daily. If I had to do it over again I would buy without the track and fence and just use the track saw on a piece of 1/2 insulation to cut full sheets.

[Andrew Wayland]

I have an MFT 3, but find it a little too small in capacity to be really useful, so it mainly ends up being a bit of dumping ground.

I bought a $20 sheet of MDF and the Part Guide system and built an MFT style top that just lays on a bench. When not in use, it just stands on edge between a couple of tools against a wall.

It's about 4" longer and about the same in width, so I can overhang an end and side an use the dog holes for clamping, although most of the time, I use the dog holes for putting bench stops in.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop2_zpsvpkrlszb.jpg

If you wanted to repeat cuts: what do you use? A clamped down stop block? Or do you have a fence too?

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop3_zpsczfeejs4.jpg


I think it depends on what you are planning the top for. If just cutting then a parallel guide might do you better. Initially I used mine a lot to cut on but recently not so much. I do use it daily to clamp pieces on for working like planning, sanding, to hold the LR32, etc. With a couple of clamps and dogs it is very versatile and gets used nearly daily. If I had to do it over again I would buy without the track and fence and just use the track saw on a piece of 1/2 insulation to cut full sheets.

It’s difficult: I’m just a hobbyist, so it won’t be a daily tool either way.

I can appreciate how useful a top is, and I understand some say that it’s easier to get accurate cuts than on an MFT style top, but sometimes I just toss some foam on the garage floor, and rip cuts right on the floor.

Part of me feels grabbing parallel guide rails would be easier than dragging out a 4x8’ sheet of MDF, tossing it on a stand, and then lugging the stock to it?

[ChrisA Edwards]

Understood, I usually break down sheets on the floor on a sheet of 2" pink foam insulation. For storage, I actually have that cut into 3 sections.

I have the TSO parallel guides and they work alright, but they are not something I find I couldn't do without and honestly, I rarely use them. I have the Festool track and once it's placed it doesn't move, so for repeated rip cuts, I should just have made a simple pair of spacer strips for quick alignment.

[Jim Becker]

While Chri's (wonderful) implementation is certainly expansive, what's most important about it is that it shows the possibilities for integrating the system into your woodworking workflow...and they work on a smaller scale, too.

I honestly caution about "I'm only a hobbyist" thing. Doing something for personal enjoyment doesn't reduce the value of setting things up so that your shop works for you and makes the activity even more enjoyable. That doesn't require spending huge amounts of money; rather, it requires being creative and being willing to consider and embrace different ways of accomplishing tasks. The "grid" is a good example of that. Make it work for you in a size that's reasonable for your available space. :) I can think of a number of projects I did over the years, especially early on, that would have benefitted from the things I've found along the way, many of which from folks here at SMC.

[Andrew Wayland]

I have an MFT 3, but find it a little too small in capacity to be really useful, so it mainly ends up being a bit of dumping ground.

I bought a $20 sheet of MDF and the Part Guide system and built an MFT style top that just lays on a bench. When not in use, it just stands on edge between a couple of tools against a wall.

It's about 4" longer and about the same in width, so I can overhang an end and side an use the dog holes for clamping, although most of the time, I use the dog holes for putting bench stops in.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop2_zpsvpkrlszb.jpg


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop3_zpsczfeejs4.jpg


I think it depends on what you are planning the top for. If just cutting then a parallel guide might do you better. Initially I used mine a lot to cut on but recently not so much. I do use it daily to clamp pieces on for working like planning, sanding, to hold the LR32, etc. With a couple of clamps and dogs it is very versatile and gets used nearly daily. If I had to do it over again I would buy without the track and fence and just use the track saw on a piece of 1/2 insulation to cut full sheets.


While Chri's (wonderful) implementation is certainly expansive, what's most important about it is that it shows the possibilities for integrating the system into your woodworking workflow...and they work on a smaller scale, too.

I honestly caution about "I'm only a hobbyist" thing. Doing something for personal enjoyment doesn't reduce the value of setting things up so that your shop works for you and makes the activity even more enjoyable. That doesn't require spending huge amounts of money; rather, it requires being creative and being willing to consider and embrace different ways of accomplishing tasks. The "grid" is a good example of that. Make it work for you in a size that's reasonable for your available space. :) I can think of a number of projects I did over the years, especially early on, that would have benefitted from the things I've found along the way, many of which from folks here at SMC.

I generally agree with you: I enjoy projects, especially when I have the tools to make things easier.

But often times I dive into hobbies: making big investments without considering how much I’ll actually use it.

So normally, I’d be buying everything! The parallel guides, the parf guide system, and various dogs/accessories: but I’m trying to be a little more sensible this day and age.


Maybe I’ll get the parf guide.... and build my own tops. I could get by ripping long pieces using the razor blade method I’m seeing in the festool groups. Then the table would be helpful in breaking down the smaller goods.

The parallel guides i’d only use a handful of times a year.

[George Yetka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ_dhbIdGqE

[Joe Hendershott]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ_dhbIdGqE

Watching the videos by Peter has perhaps helped me more than any other one person. No B.S., no useless dialog, just right to what needs being done. Really, I would gladly pay to get such info so well served.

[Andrew Wayland]

His videos are quite relaxing. I rather enjoy them!

Sounds like Parallel guides aren’t worth it, especially if I’m not doing anything in great volumes.


Would anybody here recommend a track square? Or is that just as needless as the guides?

[Jim Becker]

If your grid is accurate, the "dogs" like Chris shows in his great workstation take care of a lot of the squaring needs automagically. That's for both tracks and material. I actually used that capability yesterday on my new DP table product (which I'm about to post about) while laminating the two pieces of plywood it was made from...

448163

[Charles P. Wright]

With my space, I find track squares very convenient for breaking down sheet goods. I have a TSO and it works very well.

The centipede or other mobile support doesn't have the grid to ensure squareness, but I find the MFT cumbersome to move and is also too small for a sheet of plywood. And two of them is just too expensive. The track square gives you the squaring ability without the need for the grid. Or off the back of your tailgate.

I have a 4x8 Centipede, and 2 of the 2x4 centiepeds but prefer these to the smaller one:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-33-in-Folding-Portable-Workbench-DWST11556/301867227

The Dewalt top is too thick to use a Festool clamp with the holes, but they will fit in the long "X" slots.

The centipede has a very high weight capacity, but that presumes even loading, and it can be floppy if you are not gentle with it while moving a sheet around.

My workflow just doesn't work with the MFT for cutting sheet goods, but I love it for sanding/dominoing/routing where it excels at holding more manageable workpieces pieces.

[Derek Meyer]

You might take a look at the Kreg Adaptive Cutting System. They sell the top separately, either bare for $149 or with the track and hardware for $349.

https://www.kregtool.com/shop/cutting/adaptive-cutting-systems/

I don't have this system but we have it set up in the store I work at and it seems like it would work pretty well.

Derek

[Tony Shea]

https://dashboardpws.com/products/dashboard-system-basic-bench

Here is a great alternative to the Festool MFT. Albeit more expensive but is larger and has much more built in options. A big plus is the extra length and the sacrificial kerf section of the top that can be replaced when beat up too bad.

[Andrew Wayland]

You might take a look at the Kreg Adaptive Cutting System. They sell the top separately, either bare for $149 or with the track and hardware for $349.

https://www.kregtool.com/shop/cutting/adaptive-cutting-systems/

I don't have this system but we have it set up in the store I work at and it seems like it would work pretty well.

Derek

I was looking at the Adaptive cutting system at first: but the 3/4 setup doesn’t seem to be as well-adopted as the 20mm.