Oliver 16" 166 Shelix Conversion

[Ben Mitchell]

Howdy.

I'm working on replacing the clamshell head in my jointer with a spiral model. It's a belt driven jointer that's currently set up with an old rubber-coated-canvas flat belt. I figure I should replace that with a modern v-belt setup at the same time.

Has anyone out there done this? Would love to get the benefit of prior experience on pulleys / belt lengths / which flavor of Byrd head to order / etc.

-Ben

[Brian Gumpper]

There is more than one head for that machine, if you need the set of drawings let me know. Should have one that's a direct replacement.

[Ben Mitchell]

There is more than one head for that machine, if you need the set of drawings let me know. Should have one that's a direct replacement.

They sent me all the drawings. The one that matches what I have has a 2.5" diameter input shaft designed for an old-school flat belt sheave. I'm hoping to upgrade to modern v-belts, which would presumably need a smaller input shaft, and I didn't see one like that in the set of "standard" heads that Byrd sent over.

[Stewart Lang]

I had Byrd build me a head for my 16" Moak jointer. Just be aware it took about 9 months for them to finish it.

They also sent me a few drawings, I found one that matched my head, but then shortened the shaft. Just modified their drawings.

Install was easy enough, only took me a few hours.

I had the motor mounted under jointer, and used a twin v-belt setup. Just got some nice v-belts off Amazon. No need to overthink it, since anything is better than a rubber-coated-canvas flat belt :)

[George Makra]

I have done this to my New Berlin [ which aint so new] Byrd Tooling is a great company BTW.

I have done three conversions with thier stuff.and if your a vet they will give you a discount.

The main thing is to get a head that will fit your machine. If you have babit bearings that one can of worms to deal with. If you have ball bearings thats a different can of worms.

If you have babit bearings do you want to convert to ball bearings?

If you have ball bearing measure the shaft and send them a drawing. They will take it from there.

Ask Byrd what is max RPM for the head it will be north of 5000 RPM. Look up a sheeve RPM calculator and see what sheeves you need.

Then take that info down to a bearing supply company and see what they have that will work.
Doing it that way will give you options so you dont paint your self into a financial corner.

[Bradley Gray]

I have a Faye and Egen 16" clamshell. I had a machinist friend convert the 2 knife head to hold 4 high speed knives with jib screws.

Works great.

[Mel Fulks]

I have a Faye and Egen 16" clamshell. I had a machinist friend convert the 2 knife head to hold 4 high speed knives with jib screws.

Works great.
Interesting, did he have to also deal with any distortion from removing all that metal?

[Bradley Gray]

Interesting, did he have to also deal with any distortion from removing all that metal? Sorry, I don't know any thing about that. Quite a bit of steel in the cutter head. When I got it the babbets had recently re-poured. so far (30 years) all is good. Easy to set knives, acts just like one would expect a 9' long jointer to act.

[Ronald Blue]

If you are converting from a flat belt look at serpentine as an option. They will run smoothly. Just food for thought.

[Ben Mitchell]

Ok. New question:

The jointer is currently set up with open bearings. There are zerks on the bearing housings to keep things lubed, and there are some worn out leather seals that are supposed to ride on some pressed-on collars to keep the grease in. I'm thinking I should just replace the open bearings with permanently lubed, sealed units. There's probably a 1/16" gap between the leather and the mating surface. Think I need to worry about putting modern shaft seals in there to keep sawdust out? Or if I ditch the leather and machine some collars that are 0.015 or so gapped from the leather is that good enough?

[David Kumm]

What size bearings does the machine run? They must be different than my 1954 166 which uses an oil bath for lubrication. Check the rpm limit for sealed bearings of the same size vs the speed you intend to run. That will tell you whether sealed are appropriate ( sealed bearings have a lower speed limit due to the contact of the seals ). I generally want the limit to be a third higher than what I run for a spindle bearing. Dave

[Ronald Blue]

What size bearings does the machine run? They must be different than my 1954 166 which uses an oil bath for lubrication. Check the rpm limit for sealed bearings of the same size vs the speed you intend to run. That will tell you whether sealed are appropriate ( sealed bearings have a lower speed limit due to the contact of the seals ). I generally want the limit to be a third higher than what I run for a spindle bearing. Dave

Rather than sealed bearings shielded would likely work fine. As you say the seal causes a little friction that lowers RPM rating. Shielded is a good compromise. Keeps dust and dirt out but there should be no rolling resistance.

[Ben Mitchell]

Ah. Interesting. The RPM issue is going to bite me here. The machine is configured for one 6313 and one 6308. My searching suggest's it's going to be tough to get to a good speed in any kind of shielded/sealed configuration. So... we're back to the open bearings. Which means I need to figure out the seal issue. On the drive side I have "safe" options since I can machine new seal carriers to replace the cast iron ones. On the idler side it's harder since the leather seal is actually installed in the machine casting itself. What's the word on replacing leather seals? Are these still around these days?

[David Kumm]

If you can't get the leather seals and run in grease, a 6313 shielded has a limit of 4800. Adjust the pulley size or use a vfd to adjust hz and keep the rpm in the 4000 range. Not running 24/7 in production, you should be fine, even if you speed the head up periodically for gnarly stock. Having said that, there is a sweetness to an oil bearing machine. The sound is a little different and you can find precision open bearings on ebay for a fraction of new. The speed limit for an ABEC 7 phenolic cage bearing is 12700 in oil and 8300 in grease. Dave

[Ronald Blue]

This says a maximum speed of 5300 RPM which I read as continuous duty for an SKF 6313-ZZ. How fast does your cutter head spin?
Of course no worries on the 6308 series.

https://www.skf.com/us/products/rolling-bearings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/productid-6313-2Z
https://www.skf.com/us/products/rolling-bearings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/productid-6308-2Z

[Ben Mitchell]

This says a maximum speed of 5300 RPM which I read as continuous duty for an SKF 6313-ZZ. How fast does your cutter head spin?
Of course no worries on the 6308 series.

https://www.skf.com/us/products/rolling-bearings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/productid-6313-2Z
https://www.skf.com/us/products/rolling-bearings/ball-bearings/deep-groove-ball-bearings/productid-6308-2Z


Speed isn't really determined yet, but I was assuming I'd target something in the 5500-6000 range. I can dial it back, of course. And this is a very intermittent duty machine, so I don't mind pressing the limits a bit.

Hmmmm... Much to consider.

[Ronald Blue]

I doubt that you would have an issue. If I read the specifications correctly they have a maximum RPM and a working maximum which I would consider to be like a duty cycle rating. So the rated RPM should be something that it could do continuously. I didn't put any research into that so it's only an assumption at this point. It seems to be something all the bearings I looked at had though. Good luck.

[Jared Sankovich]

Speed isn't really determined yet, but I was assuming I'd target something in the 5500-6000 range. I can dial it back, of course. And this is a very intermittent duty machine, so I don't mind pressing the limits a bit.

Hmmmm... Much to consider.

5.5 to 6k seems unnecessarily high for a jointer. DD machines are running 3600 with belted typically at 4200 or so. What is the rpm limit of the byrd head?

[David Kumm]

If you are looking to spend for a Byrd, you should also get a quote from Hermance. It is generally considered a step up and often for nor much extra $$. Dave