Continental USA or USPS?

[Scott Winners]

I have passed on buying three items in the last four weeks. All three said "continental US" in the advert.

I get that within the lower 48 you got UPS and DHL and FedEx and whatever else.

If you are about to post an advert and are willing to ship USPS - United States Postal Service - please say so. USPS will deliver to Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, APO addys and FPO addys- at very reasonable prices for those of us that live there compared to the other shippers.

I get that you might have daily pickup at your office by DHL and don't want to deal with the post office. And there are a bunch more woodworkers in the lower 48 then therre are in the seventh fleet.

But if you are willing to ship your thing USPS please menttion that. Weight limit for USPS is 70#, I am not looking for a table saw.

Thanks

[John Keeton]

Scott, I understand your situation, but I have nearly abandoned shipping with USPS because of their inefficiency recently. In the last four months it has lost three packages I have shipped. One finally was delivered, but the other two cannot be located. Along with losing packages, their delivery times have become more and more extended and tracking is not dependable. It is hard to beat the USPS flat rate box deal on cost alone, but only if it reaches its destination. I don’t know if others have experienced the same issues, but that may have something to do with what you are seeing in the ads.

[Lance Mirrer]

John,
the last few months USPS has had some issues, but for many years before they have been very reliable. I am comfortable in looking forward to the Xmas and election surges to be over and them improving service.

Too early to give up on them, especially for our friends in AK, HI, etc.

Good luck shopping Scott!

[John Keeton]

Lance, perhaps the end of the year MAY make a difference. I was told by a local USPS employee that there is wide spread abuse of the provisions of the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, which permits employees to take up to 12 weeks of paid leave in certain instances. Those provisions expire December 31 unless extended. The employee indicated it had crippled several distribution centers as well as local facilities. I have no personal knowledge of that - just passing along what I was told. But, whatever the reason there has been a significant decline in the efficiency of the system. On the other hand, both UPS and FedEx seem to be operating very close to the same efficiency they had pre-Covid.

It isn’t my intent to start a debate on this. I am just providing my personal reasons for using other shipping alternatives. Others may not be having any difficulties with the USPS.

[Curt Harms]

I was wondering if there was some sort of unsanctioned job action going on at USPS but John's explanation makes sense.

[Mike Kreinhop]

This has been an issue for the past 22+ years that I've been stationed overseas. Unfortunately, the APO/FPO system will not accept deliveries from commercial shippers.

First class mail and most Priority packages sent to APO/FPO addresses go from the local USPS center to the nearest USPS distribution hub at an international airport. From there, the packages are put on the next available U.S. flag carrier flight to the airport servicing the APO/FPO area, which in my case is Frankfurt. The APO/FPO staff working at the airport then load the parcels and mail bags onto the secure military or leased vehicles for delivery to the servicing APO. This process takes between four days to two weeks for most packages.

An alternate route for for packages that don't go by air is by container for surface travel by ship. This can take 30 to 120 days to arrive, which can create problems for PayPal resolution if an item doesn't arrive or arrives damaged. In most cases, the difference between surface and Priority Mail to APO/FPO addresses is not a lot, but the time difference can be months.

A few years ago, I bought some parts from my U.S.-spec car that I was selling. I paid with PayPal and the vendor assured me the parts would be sent Priority Mail with tracking. I never received the tracking information, and after three weeks, I requested the vendor file a claim with the USPS and either refund my money or send replacement parts. The vendor refused, and at the 40-day point, I filed a claim with PayPal for non-delivery. Since the vendor could not provide tracking information, PayPal refunded my money. A little over two months after that, the package arrived. The vendor sent it the least expensive way with no insurance or tracking and it went surface mail. I had already bought and received the parts elsewhere, so I refused delivery and the package was returned to the vendor.

Some vendors and individuals can't or won't use the USPS for shipments to APO/FPO addresses because it doesn't fit their logistics business model, or just can't be bothered. Fair enough, there are usually other options. Fortunately, the vendors I used the most, such as Lie Nielsen, Incra, Woodpeckers, Lee Valley, and McMaster-Carr, don't have a problem using the USPS, and I have never had a problem with a missing or delayed package from them.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

USPS has been fairly reliable for me and their flat-rate boxes are a great deal. I always message the seller and ask, and 90% of the time they don’t mind shipping to me.

I hate how Alaska gets left out of “continental” US. It’s on the same continent! I get “contiguous” but not “continental.”

Funny thing, however- although I am just a “territory”, I think I have it better than Hawaii as far as shipping goes. They have the Jones act and also are just so far out there. I can get priority fairly reliably in 3 days and no more than 5. Of it comes regular mail, it depends on the boat and how fast they fill the container. Might be a week, might be a month.

[Ronald Blue]

Interesting insight to things. Mike I see the challenges you can face and the work arounds that you've found to achieve the end goal which is getting what you buy. I wasn't aware of the 12 week leave thing for USPS workers and that explains a lot. We have a friend who's worked for the USPS for 28 years and she said never in her career have they had the volume of packages that they are dealing with now. Everyone is buying and shopping online because of the pandemic and the system is overloaded. While UPS and FedEx are generally doing a better job they have also restricted some shipping as well. In a few days things should ease and return to somewhat normal shipping times again.

[Jim Matthews]

I have no personal knowledge of that - just passing along what I was told.


From the source: https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/employee-safety-%E2%80%93-postal-service-covid-19-response



But, whatever the reason there has been a significant decline in the efficiency of the system.


There was a ban on overtime, last Summer. The backlogs started then.

https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/2020/07/looking-cut-costs-new-usps-leader-takes-aim-overtime-and-late-trips/166917/



On the other hand, both UPS and FedEx seem to be operating very close to the same efficiency they had pre-Covid.


They're all over capacity. FedEx and UPS dumped their unprofitable cargo on a sinking USPS. This isn't news.

https://www.modernretail.co/retailers/this-is-going-to-ruin-us-fedex-and-ups-hit-companies-with-unexpected-holiday-shipping-limits/





It isn’t my intent to start a debate on this. I am just providing my personal reasons for using other shipping alternatives. Others may not be having any difficulties with the USPS.

Too late.

[Jim Matthews]

If you are about to post an advert and are willing to ship USPS - United States Postal Service - please say so. USPS will deliver to Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, APO addys and FPO addys- at very reasonable prices for those of us that live there compared to the other shippers.


But if you are willing to ship your thing USPS please menttion that. Weight limit for USPS is 70#, I am not looking for a table saw.

Thanks

What's on your Christmas list?

I can offer Secret Santa services.

[Jim Becker]

I believe that part of this is when the price includes shipping for CONUS. It's perfectly reasonable to ask the poster if they will be amenable to shipping to you for the difference between what they figured would be their cost for "free" shipping via flat-rate for CONUS and the actual cost to AK or similar. But I thank you for bringing this up and I will certainly add language to my own future Classifies that indicates I'm amenable to shipping to other US addresses that are not considered CONUS for whatever the additional cost would be.

[John Keeton]

From the source: https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/employee-safety-%E2%80%93-postal-service-covid-19-response



There was a ban on overtime, last Summer. The backlogs started then.

https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/2020/07/looking-cut-costs-new-usps-leader-takes-aim-overtime-and-late-trips/166917/



They're all over capacity. FedEx and UPS dumped their unprofitable cargo on a sinking USPS. This isn't news.

https://www.modernretail.co/retailers/this-is-going-to-ruin-us-fedex-and-ups-hit-companies-with-unexpected-holiday-shipping-limits/




Too late.Jim, good links. And, it seems obvious that my comments spurred ongoing discussion, so for that I apologize. I debated about commenting, but since I have listed several things for sale and limited shipping I felt I should at least explain my own personal situation. I understand the OP's dilemma, but the reality is that I spent hours tracking the lost packages and subsequently filing insurance claims. I will say that payment on claims is quick once one jumps all the hoops. The bottom line is that, yes, there will be delays with any of the services, but it is only the USPS that has actually lost two of my shipments. It has been months ago on the first one and it is still MIA. The other has been well over a month. I have not experienced any issues with UPS or FedEx and the delivery times have been as estimated.

Again, I am sure others have had experiences that differ from mine, but my experiences have changed the way I approach shipping. I do hope things change after the first of the year as I get good service from the local USPS employees and the flat rate shipping is a great deal.

As to the CONUS issue, I agree with Jim Becker. Stating the willingness to ship outside the contiguous states for the extra shipping is an appropriate approach.

[Ted Calver]

The wife's Etsy store has mailed 241 1st class packages via USPS thus far this year. None were lost. All were tracked and deliveries were found to be averaging two to three days later than the normal three day delivery (coast to coast) she experienced last year. The cost saving measures had an impact on service, but any discussion of whether the measures were needed and the timing of their implementation would quickly become politicized.

All bets were off on packages mailed to Canada, which often took a couple of weeks to arrive.

Having lived in Alaska, I can appreciate the OP's request and think it's certainly worth the effort to make an exception to your shipping policy if it helps get your product where it is needed and appreciated.

[Ronald Blue]

Spot on Adam.

I also dispute the no overtime thing. That's not happening here. In fact they are doing Sunday deliveries in my little town of 3500 people and that has never happened before. They started that right after Thanksgiving. They might have mandated no overtime in the middle of summer and to some degree I think that makes sense. But it's certainly not happening here and hasn't been for at least a couple months. I see the mail delivery still running at 5 and 6 PM. The volume is overwhelming and unprecedented. Mail sorting machines are for letters. Not for packages of every conceivable size and shape. It's been documented for some time that letter volume is decreasing because of all the electronic methods to communicate the same things.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I’ve never been accused of wearing rose colored glasses and, frankly, think most politicians, regardless of party affiliation, are loathsome and cut out of the same corrupt cloth. But there is strong evidence that many of the recent USPS delivery issues can be traced to the dismantling and removal of these sorting machines.

[Ronald Blue]

I’ve never been accused of wearing rose colored glasses and, frankly, think most politicians, regardless of party affiliation, are loathsome and cut out of the same corrupt cloth. But there is strong evidence that many of the recent USPS delivery issues can be traced to the dismantling and removal of these sorting machines.

They are letter sorting machines according to this. Not package sorting. Just the facts. Even this source says they are letter sorting machines.
cnn.com/2020/08/21/politics/usps-mail-sorting-machines-photos-trnd/index.html

[Stephen Rosenthal]

They are letter sorting machines according to this. Not package sorting. Just the facts. Even this source says they are letter sorting machines.
cnn.com/2020/08/21/politics/usps-mail-sorting-machines-photos-trnd/index.html

I understand that. I’m friends with someone who is highly placed in USPS administration in the SF Bay Area. She told me that the removal of these machines have produced a chain reaction in combination with increased volume of unprecedented delays and mishandling of all aspects of mail delivery.

[Sean Kinn]

As someone that has just sold a few small items on here...I just want to jump in to say - holy heck has USPS gone downhill in their service and uphill on their pricing. I haven't had to ship any smll (priority mail sized) items in probably a decade and I have been absolutely been blown away by the prices for even a rather small package. Absolutely my fault, but wow I should have researched the rates more before pricing my items with shipping included. I am definitiely headed back to UPS. The staff at the counter are much friendlier, the tracking is better, and the rates aren't way out of line.

[Mike Manning]

I have found that USPS rates are competitive with all other shippers. At least for items I have shipped which typically involve flat rate boxes and media mail. As far as friendly customer service I have found that over the last decade the folks working at the post offices are friendly and conscientious. Definitely an upgrade over what used to be. And while some have written about lost items and longer delivery times in the time of covid I have been pleasantly surprised that most items have been on schedule. More or less. Of course, YMMV. :0)

[Mike Henderson]

I've used USPS a fair amount both to send and receive. Never lost a package. Most, but not all, were priority mail.

USPS must be doing overtime now. I received a package at 6:30am and another at perhaps 8pm. They're really putting in the hours around here.

Mike

[Just a side note, I found that UPS was cheaper for big packages than USPS. But for normal sized packages, USPS is a bit less.]

[Brian Elfert]

I’ve never been accused of wearing rose colored glasses and, frankly, think most politicians, regardless of party affiliation, are loathsome and cut out of the same corrupt cloth. But there is strong evidence that many of the recent USPS delivery issues can be traced to the dismantling and removal of these sorting machines.

Supposedly those sorting machines could not deal with packages and were primarily for sorting flat first class mail. The official story was they wanted to free up space to handle the increasing mail volume.

[Brian Elfert]

I sold something on Ebay a number of years back that included Alaska and almost lost my rear end on the deal. The buyer was from Anchorage, Alaska. I just about fell over when UPS Ground and Fedex Ground both quoted about $225 for the shipment. The only thing that saved me was that Priority Mail was about $40. I can't remember if I offered free or flat rate shipping. I was expecting to spend around $25 on shipping.

I had never researched pricing on shipping to Alaska, or I never would have included Alaska in the allowable buyers. I am sure the guy jumped on the deal because he just how expensive shipping to Alaska is.

[Brian Elfert]

Funny thing, however- although I am just a “territory”, I think I have it better than Hawaii as far as shipping goes. They have the Jones act and also are just so far out there. I can get priority fairly reliably in 3 days and no more than 5. Of it comes regular mail, it depends on the boat and how fast they fill the container. Might be a week, might be a month.

How the heck are you on an island and can get faster Priority Mail delivery than those of us on the mainland in a metro area with millions of residents? I just got a Priority Mail delivery today that was shipped last Monday so it took a full seven days. Luckily, it is not a Christmas gift and I was in no hurry for it.

[Jim Becker]

Brian, things are moving pretty slow right now...I have a package I sent 8 days ago to Florida (it actually IS holiday gifts and insured) that's still showing as "in transit" with no additional scans since it left my local PO.

But this all gets away from the OP's request...that folks be willing to work with US buyers that are not CONUS.

[Scott Winners]

But this all gets away from the OP's request...that folks be willing to work with US buyers that are not CONUS.

It is a fine discussion, not worried about going off track here and there.

If sellers are not willing to deal with USPS that is fine. In general those of us outside the lower 48 are willing to wait a bit longer to take advantage of USPS shipping rates on flat rate boxes is all.

I once worked at an outfit back east that had UPS bring a tractor trailer of incoming every morning, in the late afternoon they would come back with an empty tractor trailer to pick up our daily outgoing. While I worked there, everything I shipped went UPS because it was so easy.

I am not looking for any particular thing. I do keep an eye on the for sale section here in case something I might need someday comes up at a price I can't refuse is all.

[finlay gray]

I would opt for USPS.

[Curt Harms]

SWMBO has an Etsy store (or whatever they call it). Etsy offers FedEx ground or USPS. The FedEx ground is substantially less than FedEx ground retail and generally less than USPS on packages over a pound or two. We have also found that having a UPS account and using it can cost a good bit less than retail even though she only sends a handful of packages via UPS.

[Jim Becker]

Curt, ETSY offers store owners discounted shipping for both FedEX and USPS. (EBAY is similar) They do so much volume that they are able to negotiate rates which they pass on. But ETSY gets their 5% transaction fee on shipping, too...so getting those discounts to encourage using their shipping and labels benefits them.

[Jon Grider]

Personal anecdote here. I have a niece in Phoenix and a niece near Boston. Last month I shipped a package to Massachussets via USPS. 10 day delivery time. Package to Arizona via UPS 3 day delivery time. I've always preferred USPS, but my most recent experiences have changed that. Many of the USPS counter staff at my local office seem complacent, lazy, and indifferent. No hustle at all. If USPS were not subsidized, they could not compete with the UPS and FedX people I see hustling their tails off. And this from a guy that thinks private health insurance should be replaced.

[Jim Matthews]

If USPS were not subsidized, they could not compete with the UPS and FedX people I see hustling their tails off.

The USPS is self funded.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/08/26/how-is-the-u-s-postal-service-governed-and-funded/

https://facts.usps.com/top-facts/

[Brian Elfert]

Curt, ETSY offers store owners discounted shipping for both FedEX and USPS. (EBAY is similar) They do so much volume that they are able to negotiate rates which they pass on. But ETSY gets their 5% transaction fee on shipping, too...so getting those discounts to encourage using their shipping and labels benefits them.

Ebay used to not charge transaction fees for shipping. A lot of sellers did the famous charge $1 for an item and then charge something like $99 for shipping so they paid almost nothing in Ebay fees. Part of why Ebay started charging fees on shipping charges is to encourage free shipping. If the transaction fee will be the same either way it encourages the seller to offer free shipping. Ebay knows that free shipping entices buyers to buy more so it is good for Ebay.

Most everyone knows shipping is not really free and sometimes the cost is inflated to more than it would cost to buy the item elsewhere with shipping. I have ordered in the past from a seller that had two websites: One had free shipping and one charged for shipping. I found that for a medium or large size order is was cheaper to order from the site that charged shipping as the price was less. If I placed a small order it was generally cheaper to order from the site that had free shipping.

[Brian Elfert]

I would not be surprised if UPS and/or Fedex have contracts that require a shipper to use only Fedex or UPS for all shipments. That would be a good reason why a company would use the USPS for a "special" shipment.

[Jon Grider]

The USPS is self funded.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/08/26/how-is-the-u-s-postal-service-governed-and-funded/

https://facts.usps.com/top-facts/

I stand corrected if the links you provided are accurate. Doesn't change my mind about their inefficiency though, from my own experience.

[Jon Grider]

The USPS is self funded.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/08/26/how-is-the-u-s-postal-service-governed-and-funded/

https://facts.usps.com/top-facts/

I stand corrected. It needs subsidization to keep operating. From your link USPS lost $69 billion from 2008-2018, and a measly 8.8 billion in 2019. It cannot compete as it stands.

[Mike Henderson]

I stand corrected. It needs subsidization to keep operating. From your link USPS lost $69 billion from 2008-2018, and a measly 8.8 billion in 2019. It cannot compete as it stands.

The reason USPS loses money is that they have to make big contributions to the retirement fund. See here (https://news.nd.edu/news/postal-service-losing-money-because-of-congressional-mandate-not-low-prices-expert-says/).

If you do a google search you'll find other sites that say the same thing.

Mike

[Jon Grider]

The reason USPS loses money is that they have to make big contributions to the retirement fund. See here (https://news.nd.edu/news/postal-service-losing-money-because-of-congressional-mandate-not-low-prices-expert-says/).

If you do a google search you'll find other sites that say the same thing.

Mike
Not disputing that at all. Never did. And their inefficiency makes them even worse at competing.

[Jim Matthews]

Not disputing that at all. Never did. And their inefficiency makes them even worse at competing.

You do understand that this requirement to prefund their retirement fund is not applied to any of their private "competition"?

Perhaps you are unaware of taxpayer subsidies being given to FedEx, UPS, etc.

It has been in place over the past 15 years.

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/united-parcel-service

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/fedex

[Bill Dufour]

I believe the prefunding retirement for USPS has finally been removed after it did it's job of helping the competition grow.
The free shipping is a drawback for sellers of some cheap items. I will hesitate to but 1-3 of the item.. If the shipping is free I only buy one and see if it will work then order two more. If they combine shipping I am more likely to order a few extra while I am at it. This is when I buy two little metric screws to hold on a trim plate or suchlike. Should I buy 10mm or 14 mm length I wll buy one then the other, if needed, rather then both at one time with combined shipping.
Bil lD

[Brian Elfert]

The USPS has defaulted on their required annual payment to prefund retiree healthcare since 2012 or 2013. They have taken out loans to keep operating.

[Jon Grider]

You do understand that this requirement to prefund their retirement fund is not applied to any of their private "competition"?

Perhaps you are unaware of taxpayer subsidies being given to FedEx, UPS, etc.

It has been in place over the past 15 years.

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/united-parcel-service

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/fedex

Hard to make apples to apples comparisons, but in a sense UPS and FedX get assistance for their employees retirement funds too in the form of incentives for 401K and similar programs. And I'm not in favor of the excessive pension/retirement fund USPS has gotten itself into.
Tax subsidies for such endeavors as creating jobs, maintaining strong agricultural goods pricing, and bailouts for poorly run corporations that are deemed too big to fail have been a bane to taxpayers for many years and sometimes decades.
But aside from that, the fact that UPS and FEDX are faster and sometimes cheaper in package delivery was my main point, and that in my local USPS office there seems to be a general attitude of laziness and lack of customer service. This is confirmed with other peoples experience.
I will say that USPS does a pretty good job with letter delivery. But with their operating deficit, "self funded" is a hollow claim. To be self funded and in the black would take price increases on stamps and shipping that many would not like, or subsidies from taxpayers.

[Brian Elfert]

Hard to make apples to apples comparisons, but in a sense UPS and FedX get assistance for their employees retirement funds too in the form of incentives for 401K and similar programs. And I'm not in favor of the excessive pension/retirement fund USPS has gotten itself into.


My understanding is the 1970 postal act requires the USPS to maintain the same benefits for employees as the USPS offered in 1970. It appears they could take away a benefit, but they would have to enhance another benefit or create a new benefit that is worth the same amount of money. Of course, Congress could pass a new postal act to remove this requirement.