Smart Phone Choices

[Jerry Bruette]

Loving bride and I have never had smart phones, we have a Samsung flip phone with a prepaid plan, we're shopping for smart phone choices and plans.

Really don't know what we need or want for a phone. Seems Apple owners love them and hate Android and vice versa with Android owners.

Looking to tap the wisdom banks here. What are the good points of each and the downfalls of each?

I use an Apple iphone 7 at work so I'm somewhat familiar with it's operation. I like the home button and have heard coworkers talk how they don't like the newer iphones w/out the home button. I've heard scuttlebutt about Android not supporting updates as well as Apple. Any truth to that? I'm not interested in buying a new phone every few years. Heard scuttlebutt about Apple slowing down service on older phones. Any truth there?

The quality of the camera doesn't play much in our decisions either, not that it won't get used, just not the major selling point.

Anyway just looking for some advice without starting a Sawstop or sharpening war.

[Bruce King]

I’ve had several iphones, no real complaints. I have an 11pro now, great camera. No home button to go bad, just swipe up at the bottom for home or swipe up slowly to scroll through all your open apps. The sound is way better too. Also like the screen shot that some older ones don’t have. Get Consumer Cellular too, they market to the older crowd but it’s plenty good for anyone.

[Lee Schierer]

Going from a flip phone to a smart phone, you may be shocked by the prices you'll see for service. I don't use my smart phone for entertainment, so I get by with a limited data plan that allows unlimited talk and text with a 1 gigabyte data plan with rollover of unused data from the previous month. I rarely use more than 30% even when traveling.

[David Bassett]

Seems the key decision to start with is whether you want Apple or Google all up in your business? Seems to me Apple has been a little more autocratic, but respected privacy (sometimes, a lot) more. Google is less protective of your rights and, for better or worse, the market is more fragmented. (E.g. Samsung has made many changes to the base Android.)

If neither of the camps is disqualified, the next thing to consider is that Apple doesn't seem to support the low-end market. This is how my wife & I fell into the Android camp.

For a capable, but not ridiculously top-end, phone we have both been very happy with the Moto G's. Motorola makes higher end phones and a lower Moto E line, though that doesn't show up in the US much, but we get ample capability for amounts we find reasonable with the Moto G phones. My wife has a Moto G5S-plus she got on sale for ~$150 a couple years ago that she's happy with. She's an ap monster and has it running almost everything. The camera is adequate for text messages & Facebook type photos, we're not doing professional work. I recently retired a 7 year old Moto G (original), that was too old support new aps, for a Moto G7 Play for about $125. It does more than I need honestly. As far as updates, we get them regularly with these unlocked Motorola phones. (Google keeps base Android up-to-date. It's manufacturers and carriers that don't always propagate the updates.)

Since our phones are unlocked, we can pick a carrier independent of their phone offerings. We are happy with T-Mobile, I first went with them because I appreciated the lack of lock-in in their contracts. Since we've discovered they are wonderful to travel with. Every time we've crossed a border we've gotten a text message welcoming us and relaying the local access, usually free text messages and 2G data. That's not great, but enough for our needs between WiFi Hotspots, with no extra hassle.

All that said we have an adult daughter who signed up for Google Phi (or whatever it's called today) and loves it. You have to have a Google phone and the plans are (were) all individual, but she's had connectivity everywhere she's tried and is very happy with coverage and cost.

[Doug Dawson]

My family is iPhone-only because of the privacy issues. That said, the prices of these things have gotten ridiculous. A thousand bucks for a phone? See if you can find a used one. I’m still on a 6. FWIW, the last great iOS was 6, then things went blooey.

[Paul F Franklin]

(snip) Heard scuttlebutt about Apple slowing down service on older phones. Any truth there? (snip)



Apple added a "feature" to their software to lower performance (essentially slow the phone down) when the phones battery started to degrade, as they all do after several years of use. Slowing the phone down extended run time between charges. Where they went wrong was presuming people would prefer longer run time to speed. A rather vocal group claimed Apple was slowing the phones down to "encourage" people to upgrade. I doubt there is any way to know what the true motivation was, not that it matters in these times of emotion based decision making! Anyway, I believe Apple has backed out the change.

I have an Iphone 5s that is going on maybe 5 years old at this point. Still works fine, but I do have to charge the battery every day, sometimes more often if I'm using bluetooth a lot. Back when it was new I only had to charge it every 4 or 5 days. I'll probably replace it with an Iphone 8SE soon.

I've never had or used a android phone, so can't really weigh in on that; I just know that if I need a particular app for something, an IOS version will be available.

[Bruce Page]

I went with the Apple 2nd generation SE (2020). It is reasonably priced, (as these things go) fast, and powerful. The big draw for me was the smaller size. I have no desire to carry around a tablet sized phone in my pocket.

[Bruce King]

Here is the main info from this article:
Avoid These iPhones!

Apple iPhone 1-8, iPhone X, iPhone SE (2016)
The iPhone X, 8, 7, 6S, SE (2016), and every older iPhone that came before them are probably available somewhere, but you shouldn't take the bait. They don't have the processing power to keep up with the latest software, and even if they do, they may stop getting updates soon. If you can find them, the iPhone XS or XS Max (https://www.wired.com/review/apple-iphone-xs-and-iphone-xs-max/) are worth considering, but only for less than $400.

https://www.wired.com/gallery/iphone-buying-guide/

[Stan Calow]

Like Bruce, I have the iPhone SE (2020) and like it because of its smaller size and fewer complicated features that I dont use. My previous phone (iPhone SE 2016) needed a new battery and I couldn't update the OS and some of my most used apps because of limited storage. So, yes, sooner or later they stop supporting the phones and you run out of space for upgrades. But I think that's true of all of them. I would cough up for more memory than the basic, however.

[Doug Dawson]

Here is the main info from this article:
Avoid These iPhones!

Apple iPhone 1-8, iPhone X, iPhone SE (2016)
The iPhone X, 8, 7, 6S, SE (2016), and every older iPhone that came before them are probably available somewhere, but you shouldn't take the bait. They don't have the processing power to keep up with the latest software, and even if they do, they may stop getting updates soon. If you can find them, the iPhone XS or XS Max (https://www.wired.com/review/apple-iphone-xs-and-iphone-xs-max/) are worth considering, but only for less than $400.

https://www.wired.com/gallery/iphone-buying-guide/

My iPhone 6 processes things just fine. A new battery is only 80 bucks at the Apple Store, probably less elsewhere. I’m not suggesting that anyone get something that old, because it will be relatively inefficient at Bitcoin mining. FWIW it still runs the latest iOS 12 (blecchh). I don’t know of any apps that would tax it that aren’t incredibly badly designed, or Bitcoin mining nowadays.

[Jerome Stanek]

I see you said you are on prepaid plan.
I have a LG Stylo 4 that I got through HSN with the Tracfone prepaid card as I don't use much time. I bought it for less then just the card from them and get a new one every year. I have had the Stylo for 3 years now and when my time is up I just get the cheapest one that QVC or HSN has with the 1500 minutes. I get 1500 talk 1500 text and 1.5 GB of data with a phone for about $70.00. I just use the minutes to add to my better phone.

[Doug Dawson]

Like Bruce, I have the iPhone SE (2020) and like it because of its smaller size and fewer complicated features that I dont use. My previous phone (iPhone SE 2016) needed a new battery and I couldn't update the OS and some of my most used apps because of limited storage. So, yes, sooner or later they stop supporting the phones and you run out of space for upgrades. But I think that's true of all of them. I would cough up for more memory than the basic, however.

That’s the problem with the older phones, lack of memory. OTOH, the newer phones don’t have headphone jacks, you have to use a donkey to plug into them, or else start wearing earrings.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I would recommend getting the phone that most of your inner-circle of family, friends, and neighbors are using - - especially if these users are to be your 1st line of tech support and guidance for which apps you simply 'must have'! Having the iPhn for work, resulting familiarity, and the IT department to support it, probably pushes you in Apple's direction, but consider what happens if work IT is removed from the picture.

I've been down this road with a parent and being able to remotely walk them thru the exact process to accomplish something is a big plus.

[Alan Rutherford]

We got into Tracfone 10 years ago and it ain't perfect but it ain't bad, especially for the $5-6 per month each it's cost us including both phones and service. We've each bought new phones 2-3 times. Hers was about $100 3 years ago, mine was about $150 last year. With package deals from QVC or HSN, each came with a year of service included.

Tracfone wants you to sign up for monthly service which costs more although still less than most, but if you don't use it a lot the prepaid is fine. You can always add more time if you're running low.

[Jim Becker]

iPhone is "most consistent" over time because there's only one hardware source. iPhones that date back quite a few generations can run the current code. If that's what you're used to, it's worthy of consideration. And the "home button" thing reserves really quickly. It's easy and only a very few things are difference. It took Professor Dr. SWMBO just a few minutes to get comfortable with it...no different than I and I have a multi-decade professional level of experience with tech. It's true that there was an incident where Apple slowed the processing some older phones for the reason of helping to maintain battery life as the OS became more complex and the batteries aged. I don't believe their intention was nefarious, but it still met with a lot of rancor and some legal issues. I don't think that will occur again for sure... iOS is more secure relative to third party applications because without jumping through major hoops ("jailbreaking" which is inherently difficult anymore) one can only get apps from the official Apple App Store.

Android is a good OS and many Android devices are, um...attractively priced. Android was derived from the Linux world. But about the only way to get "pure" Android is to buy a Google Pixel series device. All the other manufacturers tend to customize it and then the carriers get involved, too. That's the reason it's so hard to update beyond a certain time period along with the challenges of inconsistent hardware. Those differences can include user interface things. Android apps from the official Google Play store "usually" are pretty secure, but there are various ways to load apps from non-official sources which is where most security issues happen with Android OS devices.

There is a level of "religion" involved with some folks in either direction as you note. I'm certainly not fanatical about it, but I've been Apple from the start and because I'm invested in the ecosystem, I can move seamlessly between my iphone, ipad and MacOS computers for things like messaging, mail, browsing, etc., and I take advantage of that. Professor Dr SMWBO uses iDevices but remains on Windows at the desktop, so there's a little less integration. Younger daughter is all Apple. Older daughter is IDevices and Windows but doesn't want/need the integration for reasons I'll not go into here. I've played with some Android devices, but for me, there would be no compelling reason to add any to my world because what I've been using for a very long time "just works".

BTW, don't underestimate the usefulness of the smartphone cameras, however...even if you don't want to become one of the next paparazzi, being able to take decent photos wherever you are can be very handy.

[Clifford McGuire]

I'm a big fan of the fingerprint reader. I don't like that Apple quit using it.

Does facial recognition work if you are wearing a mask?

[Mark Blatter]

I will echo the comment about the Moto G series. I have one that is about 8 months old now. Cost me about $250, comes unlocked and yes has some bloatware, but not tons.

I have used and still use an iPhone for work, but it is a 5C, so pretty old. I couple of things on it don't work, but it is still working reasonably well. Yet to buy a new or even newer iPhone will set you back some serious money. When I dropped my last Moto G phone and it broke, I didn't cry or even cuss. It had cost me about $189, been used for a couple of years and wasn't like I needed to take out a second mortgage to buy a new one.

I feel that the newest Moto G phone is about 90% of an iPhone on most capabilities. Yet they also come with an sd slot so you can add memory if you need to. Plus they still have the stereo jack on them.

Also as mentioned earlier, the cameras will come in handy much more than you think. Being able to snap a quick photo to send someone, or if you are working on a piece of gear and want to remember how the wiring was done, parts were laid out, etc. is nice. The flashlight feature is one that I now use multiple times a day, but it is really just the flash for the camera.

Good luck with your choice.

[Paul F Franklin]

One other point...if you have a newer model car that is Apple Carplay capable, I love the ability to use apps on my phone from my car's built in big screen, in particular, Waze for navigating. I don't have to pay for overpriced updates of built-in nav, nor do I have to have a separate mount to hold the phone where I can try to navigate from the phone's screen (which is really hard to see with polarized sunglasses on). The other app I use a lot in the car is Downcast for podcasts. I don't know if there is a similar capability for non-apple phones, but now that I have it, I won't buy a phone, or a car, that doesn't support it. Not every app on the phone works automatically with carplay, but those that do are slick.

[Mike Henderson]

My iPhone 6 processes things just fine. A new battery is only 80 bucks at the Apple Store, probably less elsewhere. I’m not suggesting that anyone get something that old, because it will be relatively inefficient at Bitcoin mining. FWIW it still runs the latest iOS 12 (blecchh). I don’t know of any apps that would tax it that aren’t incredibly badly designed, or Bitcoin mining nowadays.

The iPhone 6 was left behind a software release or two ago. The processor can't handle the new software. The latest software release is 14. You have 12 because your phone can't be upgraded.

When I bought a new iPhone I didn't even trade in my iPhone 6 because it had essentially no value. I suppose I'll donate it to a woman's shelter. It still works as a phone and you can text with it.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I have the iPhone 11 pro primarily for the camera. I have the 256GB memory version.

If the camera is important to you, I'd recommend the iPhone 11 pro, the iPhone 12 pro, the Google Pixel 4 or later, or the Samsung (I forget which model). All produce great photos.

Mike

[Ben Helmich]

Get more memory than you think you need. I’m on my second iPhone since 2012 and it’s still running strong. No home button is irrelevant. Oh, I have the most expensive case you can get. I think that’s why they last because I drop it on concrete every now and then and it’s still fine.

[Mike Henderson]

I'm a big fan of the fingerprint reader. I don't like that Apple quit using it.

Does facial recognition work if you are wearing a mask?

Facial recognition is wonderful. Not only can you unlock your phone with it, but most apps support it. Makes using the phone and apps very easy. I'll never go back to not using it.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

Does facial recognition work if you are wearing a mask?

No, it doesn't since your face isn't visible enough for the software to do the math with the points it looks at. (it's not picture based...it actually measures physical attributes of your face and maps them) But Apple patched iOS while back to get to the keypad faster. The latest iPads do have a reader in the on/off button, however.

I'm also a fan of the facial recognition like Mike and I have a lot of apps that take advantage of it for authentication. Obviously, that's not convenient when I'm out and about wearing a mask, but I don't use those apps in that situation anyway. The only time it's been less convenient is in the grocery store simply because my screen times out as I'm shopping and checking things off the list in our grocery list app... :)

Of course, there's a contrast in that my Macbook Pro has a finger reader and I use that extensively, too. LOL

[Jerry Bruette]

This place is wonderful and I appreciate all the input I've received.

I saw an add on TV the other night for T Mobile 55+. Checked it out and the prices look pretty good for unlimited service, plus they have a special right now on the iphone SE(2020).

One requirement I forgot to mention in my original post is service in Canada. When we travel now I take the work phone along for service in Canada as our prepaid service doesn't cross the border.
I had my wife handle phone from work and she likes the size and feel with the otterbox on it. We're not interested in anything bigger. I understand how handy the camera can be, use it all the time at work for pictures of parts and assemblies and even use slow motion video for troubleshooting machines.

I like Mr. Becker's explanation of the operating systems. It jogged my memory that I'd heard it on a radio program I listen to occasionally( Leo Laporte).

I think we'll probably get the iphone SE with 128GB of memory from T Mobile with their 55+ plan. No contracts, coverage in Canada, and what appears to be good coverage where we travel.

Thanks for the excellent advice fellas.

[Ronald Blue]

I'm in the Android camp. I have a Google Pixel 4XL. It does everything I want of it. It get's the Android updates as soon as they are released. I've had it a year. It was only $600 last year when I got it. I usually upgrade every 2 years. Although I used the original Pixel XL 3 years. It uses facial recognition. As Jim says a mask defeats the feature because it doesn't recognize you. Good luck. Many choices.

[Doug Dawson]

The iPhone 6 was left behind a software release or two ago. The processor can't handle the new software. The latest software release is 14. You have 12 because your phone can't be upgraded.

When I bought a new iPhone I didn't even trade in my iPhone 6 because it had essentially no value. I suppose I'll donate it to a woman's shelter. It still works as a phone and you can text with it.


It runs the latest version of iOS 12, as I stated. iOS 12 is still being updated with security fixes etc.

The processor can handle the latest iOS software, but Apple wants you to buy a new iPhone. (I've been an iOS developer since the beginning, and I know what's inside it.)

Again, I'm not recommending anyone buy an iPhone 6. It's not capable of doing Bitcoin mining any more, the processing power needed for that has become too overwhelming. But an iPhone 6 is still way more than an AOL coaster freebie.

[glenn bradley]

Seems Apple owners love them and hate Android and vice versa with Android owners.

I think this is true because people think, learn and process information differently. I find Apple products very non-intuitive in general but, oddly enough, prefer the iPhone as a phone. I have yet to meet an Android device that I like. I may just be of the wrong generation and having spent nearly 40 years in I.T. I worked through a lot of the things that are now a normal part of daily life.

I prefer unix based system for work, Windows for fun things and IOS for my phone, go figure. There is a long list of "why doesn't it do that" things for my iPhone. Like most Apple products it is built with the approach that if it doesn't do something, you don't need to do it. My IOS list pales to my Android list. LOML ran an Android for a couple of years since her daughter had used one since forever. Turned out the daughter couldn't make it play well with humans either.

There, I've just added credence to the Ford/Chevy, Tastes Great/Less Filling argument about phones. :D

Oops, just realized I posted this after you had made your decision.

[Doug Dawson]

No, it doesn't since your face isn't visible enough for the software to do the math with the points it looks at. (it's not picture based...it actually measures physical attributes of your face and maps them) But Apple patched iOS while back to get to the keypad faster. The latest iPads do have a reader in the on/off button, however.

I'm also a fan of the facial recognition like Mike and I have a lot of apps that take advantage of it for authentication. Obviously, that's not convenient when I'm out and about wearing a mask, but I don't use those apps in that situation anyway. The only time it's been less convenient is in the grocery store simply because my screen times out as I'm shopping and checking things off the list in our grocery list

If Apple hadn’t bungled the implementation it would work when you were wearing a mask. They could fix it if they wanted to, but their programmers are typically kind of young, and have graduated into management by the time they’ve gained some competency. You might be surprised how few of them there are.

[Jim Koepke]

My last cell phone was turned off years ago. Lately there has been a thought or two to getting cellphones for Candy and myself.

One thing recently in the news about Apple iPhones is the concept of users having to opt in to tracking by apps as opposed to the default of having to manually opt out of tracking. Mark Zukerberg of Facebook infamy is a bit ticked off by this:


Facebook and other companies that rely on targeted ad revenue are up in arms over new system level features and developer requirements that, among other things, prompt users to deliberately opt in to ad tracking. Currently, tracking is in many cases on by default, leaving users to manually opt out of such schemes. Data is king in the world of advertising, and Facebook is known to leverage its multi-pronged platform to pump users dry.

This may be something users might want to consider.

jtk

[Doug Dawson]

My last cell phone was turned off years ago. Lately there has been a thought or two to getting cellphones for Candy and myself.

One thing recently in the news about Apple iPhones is the concept of users having to opt in to tracking by apps as opposed to the default of having to manually opt out of tracking. Mark Zukerberg of Facebook infamy is a bit ticked off by this:


It's a feature of iOS that apps have to ask permission to do stuff.

[Brian Elfert]

Here is the main info from this article:
Avoid These iPhones!

Apple iPhone 1-8, iPhone X, iPhone SE (2016)
The iPhone X, 8, 7, 6S, SE (2016), and every older iPhone that came before them are probably available somewhere, but you shouldn't take the bait. They don't have the processing power to keep up with the latest software, and even if they do, they may stop getting updates soon. If you can find them, the iPhone XS or XS Max (https://www.wired.com/review/apple-iphone-xs-and-iphone-xs-max/) are worth considering, but only for less than $400.

https://www.wired.com/gallery/iphone-buying-guide/

I have an iPhone 8 Plus and it isn't slow at all with the latest iOS.

[Mike Null]

I'm an iPhone fan ever since Blackberry went kaput. My latest is an 11 which cost about $600. We have discontinued all other telephones and use the iPhones exclusively. Mine is my business phone as well. We've been with T-Mobile for nearly 20 years and are currently on an unlimited plan that costs a total of $60 a month for two lines.

[Curt Harms]

I went with the Apple 2nd generation SE (2020). It is reasonably priced, (as these things go) fast, and powerful. The big draw for me was the smaller size. I have no desire to carry around a tablet sized phone in my pocket.

Phone size is an issue for me as well. I don't want a 6.5" phone in my pocket. I'm considering Nokia because they have screens less than 6" and get pretty good reviews otherwise. I also want an Android One phone. That guarantees (by Google) Operating System updates for I think 2 versions and like 3 years of security updates. Otherwise updates are the responsibility of the manufacturers. Some are good, others are not.

iOS vs. Android - it's a matter of taste. The Apple system is sometimes referred to as a "walled garden". Apple exercises a lot of control over what happens on their hardware. This comes at a price - there's a reason Apple has $192 billion (yes with a B) cash on hand. I prefer Android because 1) the devices are cheaper to purchase though perhaps not cheaper to own, android phones are typically replaced more often and 2) I don't care for the walled garden idea though it has its benefits.

[Jim Matthews]

If voice quality is paramount, here are some suggestions.


https://www.popsmartphone.com/best-phone-for-call-quality/

FYI - I have an ancient Google "Nexus 6" which is still plugging along. It's an Android device.

I can't stomach carrying $600 in my pocket, let alone something I could put down and forget.

I now use "Mint mobile" which also offers reasonably priced phones.

[Todd Trebuna]

I have a Samsung A20 on Boost Mobile. I've had the phone for over a year. I believe it was less than 200 (because I've never spent over 200 on a phone) The Boost service runs on Sprint Towers (which I presume is now T Mobile) and costs 70 dollars a month for 2 phones. That's with unlimited data/talk/text. The phone has been fantastic and it just got the most recent Android update. I also have an Ipad, which I love and a work phone that is an Iphone. both of them have run flawlessly also. The IPhone is a 6, and it's a good size.

I've had Boost service for probably 5 years now and find it reliable and prevalent here in the Louisville Metro area.

As far as platforms go, It's not that I'm not concerned about my privacy, it's that I am pretty sure it's comprised on a regular basis by any number of entities. I don't read all the fine print on use agreements or privacy policies because they are ridiculously long and complicated for the purpose of either getting you to not read or stop reading , so that you miss the part in there where they are going to sell your information to someone.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that T-Mo plans are pretty cost effective...I switched us from ATT a few years ago and nearly halved our costs. Our family plan (2 adult daughters still on it) is similarly priced to the senior/55+ offer. They do have some good offers on the phones right now and the new SE is a very nice device. I made the switch via Costco and got some additional financial incentives that way, too. We didn't change phones at that point as we buy unlocked directly from Apple, but that isn't necessarily the best way for everyone.

[Jim Becker]

I have an iPhone 8 Plus and it isn't slow at all with the latest iOS.

The issue that many folks refer to was relative to older devices iphone 6, for example. iPhone 8 has a pretty capable processor compared to the older generations...it's not as "fast" as current chips, but that's all relative and most folks wouldn't ever notice.

[Michael Weber]

I just upgraded to the iPhone SE after destroying my 5s trying a DIY battery replacement. :mad: My carrier is Consumer Cellular and I really like them. I went with them as at the time they offered really inexpensive plans (and still do) but mainly because multiple phones can be added for only a few dollars more per month. So both of our phones with unlimited calls/text and the lowest data plan is less than 50 bucks. If I do overuse data there’s no penalty, the simply charge for the next higher plan for that month (2 Gigs in my case) which I think is an additional $5.00. I use little data and using their App I go back to the lowest again. You can use any phone, even one you already own. A SIM is free for it. They also sell both apple and Android phones. That’s where I got the SE and it was $250. Since they offer a non interest buying plan I opted to use that. Ordered Saturday night I had the phone on Tuesday. Not a prepaid plan but no contract involved either. If this sounds like a plug for Consumer Cellular, I guess it is.

[Brian Elfert]

The issue that many folks refer to was relative to older devices iphone 6, for example. iPhone 8 has a pretty capable processor compared to the older generations...it's not as "fast" as current chips, but that's all relative and most folks wouldn't ever notice.

I was referring to the Wired article someone quoted that specifically says to avoid the iPhone 8 due to not being fast enough. I got my iPhone 8 about a year and a half ago when my iPhone 6 died. The iPhone 6 couldn't load certain websites quickly no matter if I was on lightning fast WI-FI. (I even reset the phone back to factory defaults once and no change in website performance.) The iPhone 8 can load those same websites in no time.

[Myk Rian]

Really don't know what we need or want for a phone. Seems Apple owners love them and hate Android and vice versa with Android owners.
My Niece told me the Andriod was too "customizable" which it is. You can customize the heck out of it. With an iPhone, nope. Apple seems to keep a stranglehold on their products. Not good, not bad.
I'm an Android guy.


The quality of the camera doesn't play much in our decisions either, not that it won't get used, just not the major selling point.
But they're putting some nice cameras in the phones. I have a Samsung S7, as does my Wife. We've had them long past paying Verizon for them, but it's still a charge.
I'm looking at the Samsung S20 line. The main feature being 128gb internal for programs, and 512 or 1tb micro card. My S7 has 16gb internal storage. Not enough.
It also has a really nice camera, which I would be using every day during my walks.


Anyway just looking for some advice without starting a Sawstop or sharpening war.
It has been awhile, hasn't it...

[Doug Dawson]

I was referring to the Wired article someone quoted that specifically says to avoid the iPhone 8 due to not being fast enough. I got my iPhone 8 about a year and a half ago when my iPhone 6 died. The iPhone 6 couldn't load certain websites quickly no matter if I was on lightning fast WI-FI. (I even reset the phone back to factory defaults once and no change in website performance.) The iPhone 8 can load those same websites in no time.

The Mobile Safari web page compositor hasn’t changed much over the past 5 years, and was never a heavy load. I suspect dying radios. It happens. (It could also be limited ram for scratch space.) It’s certainly happening to mine, which is why I have a 12 Pro Max with 500 jigs of ramming power under the Festivus Pole right now waiting for me.

FWIW, my original iPad Pro that I’m typing on right now (running 14.3) dates from the same period, and all web pages load on it instantaneously. Its radios are fine, because it hasn’t had that much use. (It sat in a box for 3 years while I was using a different one.)

[Jim Becker]

I was referring to the Wired article someone quoted that specifically says to avoid the iPhone 8 due to not being fast enough. I got my iPhone 8 about a year and a half ago when my iPhone 6 died. The iPhone 6 couldn't load certain websites quickly no matter if I was on lightning fast WI-FI. (I even reset the phone back to factory defaults once and no change in website performance.) The iPhone 8 can load those same websites in no time.

I agree that the 8 is no issue...that's what I have my older daughter using. Any speed concerns with these devices that revolve around web browsing are about the browser application...the newer versions expect more from the device's processor. The processor in the 6 really did start to struggle with this kind of thing when iOS and the accompanying application requirements got kicked up.

[Doug Dawson]

I agree that the 8 is no issue...that's what I have my older daughter using. Any speed concerns with these devices that revolve around web browsing are about the browser application...the newer versions expect more from the device's processor. The processor in the 6 really did start to struggle with this kind of thing when iOS and the accompanying application requirements got kicked up.

I don’t know why I keep referring to iPhone data storage as ram, colloquially, it’s just a habit borne of the way iOS freezes states of what the OS was last doing. Let’s call it storage space. I’m reminded of the old joke description of EMACS as eight megabytes and constantly swapping. It’s a quirk of iOS that in Apple’s haste to get it to market, storage was used as swap space to the extent that if you’re running low on storage, things can really get slowed down. It has little to do with the processor. Nowadays, anyway.

Processors over the past few years have exceeded the performance requirements of anything most people might care to throw at them. la la la.

[Brian Elfert]

I agree that the 8 is no issue...that's what I have my older daughter using. Any speed concerns with these devices that revolve around web browsing are about the browser application...the newer versions expect more from the device's processor. The processor in the 6 really did start to struggle with this kind of thing when iOS and the accompanying application requirements got kicked up.

I have always used the native Safari browser built into iOS. I have read that other browsers tend to use more battery. I was using my iPhone 6 to browse the web for about two hours a day back when I first started to take the bus. Safari was using up over 80% of my battery so I didn't want a browser that used even more battery. I ended up starting to use an iPad on the bus and could go about four days between charges.

[Jim Becker]

Doug, swapping has been common in other OS, too, and yes, that contributes to the slowdown on older iDevices as well as on Windows, MacOS and Linux as well as machines way before these as you point out. When you have a combination of older, slower RAM and an older processor, well...oink! ;) My old iPad 2 became unusable because of that for sure. The footprint size of the newer versions of iOS greatly increased, which left less memory space available "in the moment" for applications. They got me to buy a new iPad, however, since it was "necessary" during my eye surgery recovery where I had to be face down for almost a week. :)

[Brian Elfert]

I work in IT as a server administrator and the basic ideology we have is if a server starts swapping due to out of RAM memory then the server needs more RAM memory. Swap space is sometimes used even if not out of physical RAM and that is okay. My employer uses all virtual machines so it is a simple operation to add more RAM. No buying actual sticks of memory and sticking them inside a physical case.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that was always my contention, recommendation and/or execution for the same, for both my IT work and for my telecom work. Fortunately, devices like servers can be augmented with more resources. That's unfortunately not the case with many portable devices. What you got is what you got. :)

[Bert Kemp]

I have a 4 year old Moto G6 cost me $129 and I pay $18 month for my service. I have unlimited Cell, Text and Data on wifi and unlimited Cell and text over cell towers. I'm pretty sure it can do everything a $600 or more I-phone can do, in fact It does some stuff my daughter Iphone doesn't do. I have no data on cell towers but why do you need it since in most states its against the law to text, read email , watch movies or what ever while driving. and just about every store, restaurant, and hotel in the country has free wifi. So why do you pay for a data plan.

[Steve Demuth]

Seems like you've landed on something that works, so this is probably no longer useful, but the way I've dealt with the outrageous cost of smart phones is to buy refurbished high-end Android devices. First off, because Android can be had for way less than what Apple thinks an iPhone is worth. But refurbished because typically, they are like new anyway, and by buying a 2 year old model year that is refurbished, I get $1000 phones for around $200. Right now I have a Google Pixel 4 I picked up that way.

As for carriers, I have a national carrier, but my wife uses US Mobile. You can basically tailor a US Mobile plan to your exact needs. She gets everything she needs for $10/month, since she really only uses the phone for emergencies and traveling.

[Bill Dufour]

I bought mine and my wife's phones on eBay. Several years old supposed top be unlocked but they were Verizon to start with and that is our career anyway. Paid about $60 each delivered. Bought one terrbyte memory card for under $20 each.
We ended up with Kyocera Duraforce pro. Being verizon models they are sapphire screen, rugged , waterproof, dustproof etc. The pro 2 loses the physical buttons at the bottom which we wanted to have se we got the older model. Models that do not say verizon may or may not have the sapphire screen. They are heavy and thick but not much more then another phone after you add a protective cover/skin.
They are supposed to be rugged and unbreakable but you see ones. for sale with chipped corners, cracked screens etc.
Buy a charging mat and you do not need to buy a special charger that matches
Bill D

https://www.verizon.com/smartphones/kyocera-duraforce-pro/

[Derek Meyer]

My wife and I recently switched carriers from AT&T to a local company. Their service is much cheaper, about half of what AT&T was charging us, but we had to buy new phones, as the new carrier uses Verizon's towers. We ended up trading in our iPhones and getting new iPhone 12 Pro Max units. The new provider gave us $450 off the price of each phone, plus $480 trade in for our old phones, plus $250 of credit to spend on accessories. We chose screen protectors, a case for my wife's phone, and new high-current chargers. I think we got a charge pad as well. The package was a good way to absorb the cost of phones that would normally be $1100 each.

[Bert Kemp]

$1100 for a phone thats crazy

[Doug Dawson]

$1100 for a phone thats crazy

When the original iPhone came out, it was 600 bucks. (I still have some, buried in the back yard for continuity of data.) Then people got totally spoiled by all the carrier subsidies, where you could buy a new one every other year for 200 bucks, as long as you spent hundreds of bucks a month for service, so the actual cost was buried. Now the actual cost of them is naked. A 12 Max Pro is way more than twice the phone. Just a sanity check. The Androids OTOH are a commodity, basically. There ain’t no sanity clause.

[Jerry Bruette]

UPS dropped off the new iPhone SE's today.

Now starts the learning and teaching LOML how to use it.

[Jeff Bartley]

I just ordered a new iPhone after getting an upgrade offer from Verizon. $7/month for 24 months with a trade in of an iPhone 4 or newer. Seemed like a no-brainer. I went with the 12 mini (128gb) just so I'd have something that fit in my pocket, camelback, and pfd. And I was happy to learn that they're finally making iPhone waterproof.....but I'm sure I'll still put it in a Lifeproof case.
But I still can't believe that $1000 phones is where we are today!

[Doug Dawson]

I just ordered a new iPhone after getting an upgrade offer from Verizon. $7/month for 24 months with a trade in of an iPhone 4 or newer. Seemed like a no-brainer. I went with the 12 mini (128gb) just so I'd have something that fit in my pocket, camelback, and pfd. And I was happy to learn that they're finally making iPhone waterproof.....but I'm sure I'll still put it in a Lifeproof case.
But I still can't believe that $1000 phones is where we are today!

The cost of the parts for an iPhone 12 is around 400 bucks.

Source: https://www.gizchina.com/2020/11/25/iphone-12-pro-is-only-33-more-expensive-than-iphone-12-in-terms-of-components/

The cost of the parts for an original iPhone was a bit over 200 bucks. (I don’t recall the source, but it was common knowledge.)

That was based on actual cost to the manufacturer.

[Mike Henderson]

The cost of the parts for an iPhone 12 is around 400 bucks.

Source: https://www.gizchina.com/2020/11/25/iphone-12-pro-is-only-33-more-expensive-than-iphone-12-in-terms-of-components/

The cost of the parts for an original iPhone was a bit over 200 bucks. (I don’t recall the source, but it was common knowledge.)

That was based on actual cost to the manufacturer.

The cost to manufacture a product has little to do with the selling price. It may put a floor on the price but that's it. And sometimes things are sold at a loss for valid reasons.

Look at luxury goods - the selling price is much, much higher than the cost to manufacture.

Apple charges what it does because people are willing to pay that price. They did announce this round (of announcements) a range of products with some of them reasonably low. But for the top end, they have a good sized profit in the product.

Other things that affect the selling price are the other costs in the company such as engineering cost, marketing and sales costs, etc. For products with fairly low volume of sales, such as hearing aids, these costs can be a significant part of the total allocated cost of the product.

Mike

[Doug Dawson]

The cost to manufacture a product has little to do with the selling price. It may put a floor on the price but that's it.

Of course. The point was the floor, and that not much has changed over the years with Apple's markup on these things.

[Curt Harms]

........................................
BTW, don't underestimate the usefulness of the smartphone cameras, however...even if you don't want to become one of the next paparazzi, being able to take decent photos wherever you are can be very handy.

A well known photographer (forget the name) was asked what kind of camera was best. His reply? "The one you have with you". Phones score high on that metric.

[Bruce Volden]

My phone hangs on the wall in the house, where every phone should be!

Bruce

[Jim Becker]

A well known photographer (forget the name) was asked what kind of camera was best. His reply? "The one you have with you". Phones score high on that metric.

I resemble that remark....my phone does a LOT of photography since I'm the family paparazzi it seems. :) I actually pulled out my DSLR this morning for the Christmas festivities and found that I, um...forgot to have a charged battery ready. Both were down because it's been a long time since I actually used it. LOL

[Clifford McGuire]

My phone hangs on the wall in the house, where every phone should be!

Bruce

We got rid of our landline 10 or 12 years ago. We were only getting telemarketers on that phone.

[Doug Dawson]

We got rid of our landline 10 or 12 years ago. We were only getting telemarketers on that phone.

I have to have a landline phone number to give out so that people won’t text me. The only people who I answer the cel for are immediate family, and then only when I’m traveling. Happy Festivus!

[Jerome Stanek]

I still use my landline most of the time even though I have had a cell phone since 1988 and still have that number

[Paul F Franklin]

We have an old flip phone cell we use as our landline for 10+ years now and give that number to everyone except close family, friends, and important business contacts. We never answer that cell. It's easy enough to zip through and delete the telemarketing and political voicemail and text messages. I get zero telemarketing or junk messages on my cell.

The extra dumb phone cell line is cheaper than the landline was.

[Doug Dawson]

We have an old flip phone cell we use as our landline for 10+ years now and give that number to everyone except close family, friends, and important business contacts. We never answer that cell. It's easy enough to zip through and delete the telemarketing and political voicemail and text messages. I get zero telemarketing or junk messages on my cell.

When I’m using vi and editing something and somebody texts me, it messes up my screen. I hate that. Please stoppit.

[David Bassett]

When I’m using vi and editing ....

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess no one still using a flip phone knows what VI is.

(On the outside chance anyone is curious, it was a big deal text editor when Bill Joy wrote it at Cal in the mid-to-late 70's.)

[Scott Kilroy]

I'm an android guy who has almost always had Samsung phones and been very happy with them. Having sad that my wife loves her iPhone (I joke that we're a mixed marriage). If you're used to the iPhone get that (but either way you'll be happy with the current lineups of either phone type). As far as not having a home button, everyone I know found it weird at first but got used to it after a week or so.

[Paul F Franklin]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess no one still using a flip phone knows what VI is.

(On the outside chance anyone is curious, it was a big deal text editor when Bill Joy wrote it at Cal in the mid-to-late 70's.)

Now now...I was using VI on PDP11s for years....

[Dave Lehnert]

Ill just add my experience.
I use a Tracfone. I spend between $100 to $150 a year. I am connected to WiFi at home and work so my data usage is low.
I purchased my ZTE brand smart phone from Kroger for $30. Does EVERYTHING I need it to do.
Had a friend who was kinda making fun of my $30 phone vs their $1,000 Apple. Everything they listed they were able to do on the Apple I was doing the same thing.
My point is....For your first smart phone, think you will find most any phone will do what you want. Learn from it then maybe invest in something more expensive with the features you need. For me the cheap ones work just fine.

[Howard Evans]

The iPhone 6 was left behind a software release or two ago. The processor can't handle the new software. The latest software release is 14. You have 12 because your phone can't be upgraded.

When I bought a new iPhone I didn't even trade in my iPhone 6 because it had essentially no value. I suppose I'll donate it to a woman's shelter. It still works as a phone and you can text with it.

Mike

Interesting, ???? My wife and I have 6S phones and both are running 14.2 versions.
Kindest regards

[Dave Zellers]

The 6S came after the 6. Apple cut off support at the 6. I had a 6+ and apple was great about still issuing security support but not ios.

[Mike Henderson]

Interesting, ???? My wife and I have 6S phones and both are running 14.2 versions.
Kindest regards

Yep, the cutoff was at the original 6 (released 2014). Those that came afterwards are sill supported. So your 6S, which was released in 2015, is still supported. I had a plain 6 before upgrading.

You can check this at the Apple site. The original 6 is a bit over 6 years old so that's not a bad life.

Mike

[Clifford McGuire]

When I’m using vi and editing something and somebody texts me, it messes up my screen. I hate that. Please stoppit.

Maybe EMACS would be better?

[Doug Dawson]

Maybe EMACS would be better?

Too much work to implement. I like lean and mean. I once co-wrote a GUI implementation of sendmail for iOS, and it was a real pain, I’m sorry I ever got drawn into that.

[Clifford McGuire]

Too much work to implement. I like lean and mean. I once co-wrote a GUI implementation of sendmail for iOS, and it was a real pain, I’m sorry I ever got drawn into that.

:) Ha! If ever there was a program that deserved to remain CLI only, sendmail was it. :)

[Doug Dawson]

:) Ha! If ever there was a program that deserved to remain CLI only, sendmail was it. :)

When the App Store began, 3rd party developers didn’t have access to the email functionality, so you had to roll your own. This went on for an intolerably long time.

[Jerome Stanek]

Ill just add my experience.
I use a Tracfone. I spend between $100 to $150 a year. I am connected to WiFi at home and work so my data usage is low.
I purchased my ZTE brand smart phone from Kroger for $30. Does EVERYTHING I need it to do.
Had a friend who was kinda making fun of my $30 phone vs their $1,000 Apple. Everything they listed they were able to do on the Apple I was doing the same thing.
My point is....For your first smart phone, think you will find most any phone will do what you want. Learn from it then maybe invest in something more expensive with the features you need. For me the cheap ones work just fine.


Like I said I use Tracfone but buy mine from either HSN or QVC as I can get it bundled with a 1 year 1500 minute card for less then the card and I get a new phone

[Anuj Prateek]

If Android works for you l, I will recommend Pixel. All security and other updates comes without delay, no bloatware, unlocked, good camera and so on.

Using Pixel 3 since the day it was launched as both personal and work phone. I don't think I will need to switch till Pixel 8 or 9.