Buffing system?

[David Metzman]

I have one of the three wheel buffing systems. Not sure when or why I bought.

I generally turn bowls and pepper grinders. Oak, cherry, maple, walnut

I generally finish with homemade friction polish.

Any advantages to using the buffing system?

Thanks,
David

[Thomas Canfield]

447605Buffing makes a big difference. For bowls, the three wheel buffing system is almost useless since you can get in contact with other wheels and cannot get inside bowls well with the large wheels unless buffing 8" diameter or more and then you have greater chance of the other wheel contact. Bummer. A extended shaft that fits on the drive works well and allows using different diameter and shapes of buffing wheels. The photo shows part of the assortment of buffing wheels and bowl buffs that I use on both Powermatic 3520B (8" and 12" shaft with 1-1/4" 8TPI) and Rikon 70-220VS (8" with 1" 8TPI). The shafts were bought from Don Pencil but he is no longer in business, but the 8" shafts are out there. I am not aware of anyone making the 12" shaft at this time, but it really works well for larger bowls and deeper hollow forms. I find that smaller wheels work better than a bowl buff when it can be used inside a piece. You have to be somewhat careful about trying to use a buffing wheel with larger diameter than the opening of the piece. I do a lot of buffing with Tripoli, buffing before applying finish usually, and then after each coat of a modified Danish oil and then finish up with applying a coat of Renaissance wax after about 3 or 4 coats of finish. I do not use the white diamond or carnuba wax and am happy with a duller finish but protection of the Renaissance wax. I change out the bolts furnished by Beall with slotted head and use elevator bolts (wide flat head) that requires using a double nut lock to tighten down the bolt clamping the buffing wheel.

[David Walser]

David -- Yes, buffing has several advantages. First, the two abrasives turners frequently use with buffing, Tripoli and white diamond, are much finer than 400 grit sandpaper. So, they produce an even finer surface than what many consider their final grit. Also, if you sanded on the lathe, buffing leaves a different scratch pattern than does sanding. In sum, buffing produces finer and less detectible scratches. And, if you batch together the items you want to buff, buffing can produce those results very quickly.

However, there are other ways of achieving these results. Many turners use very fine grit abrasives at the lathe. For example, they may use all the Micro-Mesh grits. And/or, they may use an abrasive paste, such as EEE-Ultra Shine. Others, use an automotive polish, such as Meguiar's PlastX. All of these approaches, properly done, produce much the same benefits as buffing. Some turners use all these methods on the same project. They swear it gives them better results. However, in terms of scratch patterns and size of scratches, buffing will add little if any benefit if done before or after using all the Micro-Mesh, EEE-Ultra Shine, or PlastX. But, don't let that stop you.

Would your work benefit from buffing? As the handsome and talented Mr. Metzman noted, the three wheel system is difficult to use with bowls. It was designed with smaller items -- boxes, pens, bottle-stoppers -- in mind. However, it can be used with bowls (if just on the outside). Give it a try. You might like the results.

A question you didn't ask is when should you buff? With most domestic hardwoods, there is very little benefit from sanding the bare wood above 400 grit. I worked in a furniture mill. The finest grit we ever used on bare wood was 320. To get anything finer, you had to go into the finishing room. There, finer grits were used in-between coats of lacquer. The surface, when done, had a shiny, 'wet' look, that was very popular at the time. (Today, many would deride it as a plastic look.) With that in mind, I believe you'll get the most benefit from buffing AFTER you've applied your finish and it has time to cure. Buffing will remove any irregularities in the finish, leaving behind a whole lotta shine.

[tom lucas]

I buff things that will be handled. Buff polishing with microcrystalline wax makes the object a pure joy to hold in your hands. The feel of a finely finished piece of wood is one of the many benefits of wooden objects. I want to share that with others and that is why I buff polish anything that is to be held and used. It certainly has benefits beyond that, but that is my reason for it.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

This is Bradford Pear wood. The ball on the left has been sanded to 600g and one coat of Deft Sanding Sealer, then over to the yellow 1850rpm buffing wheel and used some brown abrasive buffing compound...that's it! I'm pretty sure some paste wax would make it pop. one of the advantages of buffing is the grain is in line with the buffing wheel and ya just can see any scratches.
the ball on the right has been sanded to 320g and buffed the same as the one on the left, no sanding sealer.

447672 447673




here's a video worth watching... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omXY896_N6M

[Robert D Evans]

I use the 3 wheel Beale buffing wheels for the outside of bowls. I use 3" buffing balls on an extended mandrel for the inside of the bowls. The small buffing balls are much less prone to catch and throw the bowl across the room. I run the buffing balls at a higher speed (2400 rpm). That way the inside of the bowl is just as nice as the outside.

[John K Jordan]

I have one of the three wheel buffing systems. Not sure when or why I bought.

I generally turn bowls and pepper grinders. Oak, cherry, maple, walnut

I generally finish with homemade friction polish.

Any advantages to using the buffing system?

Thanks,
David

What is in your friction polish? Does it make a film on the surface?

Sometimes unless used very gently a buffing wheel can generate heat and melt or otherwise destroy a surface finish, for example the shellac-based Mylands friction polish.
I use the Beall buffing wheels but primarily on woods with an oil finish which mostly hardens in the wood and leaves little or no film on the surface. I also use it on woods like ebony and cocobolo when I apply no finish - the hard, fine-grained wood polishes nicely.

BTW, I dislike the three wheels on one mandrel. I mounted each wheel on a separate mandrel.

JKJ

[Russell Neyman]

The basic Beall Polishing System is the best $49.95 I ever spent for a woodturning tool. (Of course, that was a decade ago and 10-thousand bowls and things have passed through my studio since. The same system is now about $80, but it's still a great investment.) I polish everything -- raw wood, polyurethane, lacquer, even raw wood -- and it gives great results. Yeah, you need to be careful not to generate excessive heat on some things, but with a few test pieces you'll figure it out.

Use it on your lathe instead of a motor so you have greater speed control. I also agree with those who advise using the single-wheel mandrel to facilitate polishing the interiors.

;)

[David Metzman]

I mix a friction polish of 1/3 each alcohol, walnut oil and varnish. I have varied the walnut oil with tung oil in the past.

I guess I should try it once and see

[David Metzman]

that is interesting so the sanding level and or the sanding sealer effect the sine a lot. How do you apply paste wax, that you mention, as part of this.

[Chris A Lawrence]

I mix a friction polish of 1/3 each alcohol, walnut oil and varnish. I have varied the walnut oil with tung oil in the past.

I guess I should try it once and see

That sounds more like a danish oil type mix to me. Equal parts solvent, drying oil and varnish or poly. That should buff well.

[John K Jordan]

I mix a friction polish of 1/3 each alcohol, walnut oil and varnish. I have varied the walnut oil with tung oil in the past.
I guess I should try it once and see


That sounds more like a danish oil type mix to me. Equal parts solvent, drying oil and varnish or poly. That should buff well.

Yes, that shouldn't leave a thick film and shouldn't melt with friction, although it could be abraded by the polishing compound with aggressive buffing.

Remember to keep a good grip on whatever you are buffing! Only a very light touch is needed, no significant pressure. I had a small turning catch and get pulled out of my hands once. I learned from that.

JKJ

[Mike Peace]

I received a Beall 3 on 1 buffing system with my first used mini lathe. I like it as I turn far more small items like boxes, ornaments and smaller bowls. It makes it fast and easy to buff because I turned my mini lathe into a dedicated buffer. I never got good results with the bowl buffs I also got used. Seems like I wound up with a lot of scratches. So I do the inside of a bowl with micromesh. I bought some 4" beall buffs I will use individually on a lathe for the inside and outside of bowls.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

that is interesting so the sanding level and or the sanding sealer effect the sine a lot. How do you apply paste wax, that you mention, as part of this.

The sanding sealer is a lacquer and I think in a way this is like a shine juice, after the solvents evaporates it leaves behind a layer of shellac and after burnishing with an airway buffing wheel it leaves a nice smooth to touch semi gloss finish, and finally I like to use wax and buff it up with the belly portion of whatever tee shirt I'm wearing.

[Allen Mattsen]

Does one need either the extension and/or Morse taper adapter to run single buffing wheels on the lathe? I have some confusion about this and what comes in the Beall 7-piece set vs what is truly needed.

I want to buy the least amount of things and run single wheels at a time. Also, How many of you like using the bowl buffs? What size (3"? ). I have some wood & resin projects and some other things I want to buff. I wonder if the set will be on sale at the AAW symposium?

Sorting through this mess:
Beall 7pc set/buffing system
Beall Morse Taper Buff Adapter
Beall Buffing Mandrel Extension
Hold Fast Long Buffing Adapter

Thanks

[Chris A Lawrence]

Does one need either the extension and/or Morse taper adapter to run single buffing wheels on the lathe? I have some confusion about this and what comes in the Beall 7-piece set vs what is truly needed.

I want to buy the least amount of things and run single wheels at a time. Also, How many of you like using the bowl buffs? What size (3"? ). I have some wood & resin projects and some other things I want to buff. I wonder if the set will be on sale at the AAW symposium?

Sorting through this mess:
Beall 7pc set/buffing system
Beall Morse Taper Buff Adapter
Beall Buffing Mandrel Extension
Hold Fast Long Buffing Adapter

Thanks

The 7 piece kit comes with an adapter that slips over a motor shaft. You would need the morse taper adapter to use it on the lathe. I bought the bowl buffs but rarely use them. Most of my bowls i make i can get the 8 inch wheels inside that do a better job. If you make alot of small bowls they would make sense.

[John K Jordan]

Allen,

The Beall system I bought had three cloth wheels and one 2MT mandrel. It was expected you would remove the screw and fasten a new wheel when changing grits. This irritated me so I bought two more 2MT mandrels so each wheel had it's own.

Some time later they started selling a long shaft that would mount all three wheels at once. I didn't like that because the clearance between the wheels limited some of the buffing I did on larger pieces. Also, it took more space to store.

I'm happy with the three mandrels. They mount quickly and can be removed with a twist. They never come loose by themselves. The three individual wheels with mandrels are easier to store than the long shaft with three wheels. Often I use just one grit or two and that is simplified too.

I have various bowl buffs but I've probably only used them once in 10 years. I tend to smooth inside with NRS, hand scrapers, and fine sandpaper by hand then apply a finish with a soft sheen. I rarely go for gloss, especially on the insideg.

I made a mandrel extension from wood and some inexpensive hardware and it was useful a couple of times. I could easily get along without it.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

Thanks guys.

JKJ, by mandrel you mean the adapters (mandrel), correct? Oh and one other question: do you need a draw bar?

461079

[John K Jordan]

Thanks guys.

JKJ, by mandrel you mean the adapters (mandrel), correct? Oh and one other question: do you need a draw bar?

461079

Mine look like this:

461090

The 2MT mandrel is held in the larger diameter part with a couple of set screws.

I use a draw bar on Jacobs drill chucks and 2MT collets for holding small turnings. However, I've never needed one with the Beall buffing wheels. I grab one from the cabinet and insert it into the headstock with a twist while holding the handwheel. I've never had one come loose while buffing. (The inside of the headstock MT should be clean.) I remove the wheel the same way: hold the handwheel and twist the mandrel to release.

The tapers on the mandrels that Beall provided were perfectly machined and fit well. My experience with some other 2MT attachments varies.

If you want to use a drawbar and don't have one, they are easy to make. I make them with 3/8" and 1/4" all-thread rod:

461091

I used a threaded handle for one but just tapped a wooden knob for the other. The round wooden knob might be safer if someone put their hand behind at the back of the headstock while the lathe was running!
I do two things with drawbars. One, I grind or file flats on the end so I can use an adjustable wrench to tighten or loosen the drawbar to remove it from the wood or mandrel.

Two, I use a small 3-corner file to cut some diagonal grooves in the threads at the end. This allows me to use the drawbar as a tap when going directly into wood. I sometimes use the 1/4" drawbar to hold the end of long, thin spindles. I first turn a short MT taper on the end of the wood, drill a suitable hole in the end, then screw in the drawbar cutting threads as I go. This works extremely well.

BTW, These test spindles taper from about 1/2" down to 1/16" or so over about 2'. The drawbar will hold the spindle tight in the lathe even when the tailstock end is cut away.

461092

JKJ

[David M Peters]

I have the Wood Buff Kit and have never been brave enough to try it without a drawbar! At that point in the finishing process I try really hard not to mess up my work.

I also have the bowl buffs and while they don't work super well they're better than nothing. If I'm able to access the inside of a bowl with the normal 8" buff I'll use that instead.

[tom lucas]

I have the Beall MT2 mandrel with an extension. Works fine. Extension gets you far away from the headstock. For me, it's easier to change the buffing wheels than it is to take the whole mandrel out. The bowl buffs work OK for inside of bowls. I just run them a bit faster.

[Allen Mattsen]

Thanks for the replies. Lots of good info