learning pace / approach, and "cheating"

[Bob Riefer]

Boy is there a lot to learn when it comes to woodworking. I've been working at it (sometimes creating nice furniture, sometimes expensive fire wood) for about 9 years or so and often feel like I know nothing at all still. You guys here at SMC amaze me, and that you so willingly share knowledge is such a gift. THANK YOU.

If the pandemic has been good for anything, it's that I have been in the shop a LOT... and, like anything else, I've found that lots of practice leads to better results. So, in some weird way, covid has made me a better woodworker.

That said.. it is really hard (at least for me) to learn all I want to learn as fast as I want to learn it. I can only accommodate a max of 2 projects at once in my shop, and I'm not a fast builder, so certain skills may get practiced today and then not again for weeks or months. I feel like every single project includes a decent chunk of tasks that aren't well-known (or well-practiced) by me. Where to start?

For years, my approach to this problem has been to start someplace productive, get as many repetitions as I can while producing something useful (as opposed to practice on scrap). Basically, on the "building stuff" side of the spectrum, I try to pick projects that will teach me something new.. I take my time and I study techniques ahead of time.

Here's where I've focused thus far:
- preparing lumber so that it is flat and square in all directions, and the desired thickness
- workflow and consistency (e.g. cutting all the same size at once)
- safely and confidently using table saw, jointer, planer, drill press, miter saw, band saw, router, and the other "staples"
- building better and better jigs/sleds when tasks will benefit from the effort
- mortise and tenon, panel glue ups, taper cuts, basic dovetails, box joints, various dado blade techniques, biscuits, pocket holes
- precision, squareness, tight joints
- machine setup and maintenance
- lumber selection


The good news is that I can now build things. LOL. Yay!


(disclaimer: I'm certainly not making furniture-show level for sure, but I can make tables, chairs, cabinets, boxes, etc. and can capably follow plans when the project is more complex).



The most glaring area that I haven't gotten to yet that is in my sights now is "finishing"... I usually get to a "good" end result but it is a fight every time, it is not enjoyable, and it isn't perfect. My growing woodworking skills are often let down by the finish. So that is up next I think because I cannot stand another frustrating end to an otherwise successful project.


Sorry for the long-winded lead up... So here are my questions on this:

1. When you were newer to woodworking, did you similarly see the mountain of skills and feel overwhelmed at times?

2. Is my approach to tackling the learning journey sensible? Or did you go an entirely different route?

3. To increase my repetitions, I recently purchased the Keller dovetail jig, and that has really been a big productivity jump. Which in turn has me considering the Domino tool... faster (and less fuss) mortise tenon and panel glue ups would greatly improve my throughput, giving me more chances to practice finishing while still producing useful projects. My question is.. is it "cheating" for a learner like me to make these sorts of jumps?

4. Around learning finishing... My plan is to study the Flexner book like I'm in grad school. If it takes working on scrap, in addition to trying techniques on actual projects, I'll do that too. Decent approach?

Thanks!

[Paul F Franklin]

Sounds to me like you're on a good track. I personally don't consider a tool like the domino "cheating" but rather a way to improve productivity in a way that in no way lessens the quality of the final project. But I think it depends on where you draw satisfaction from this hobby/vocation. For me the most satisfaction comes from the finished pieces, although I thoroughly enjoy the process as well. For others, it is primarily the journey. Neither is right or wrong, it's a personal and subjective thing.

One thing I have found useful for dealing with the "do something now and then not again for 6 months or a year" issue, is to keep a notebook where I jot notes and insights along the way. It doesn't help you preserve the muscle memory needed for many tasks, but it does help capture the mental aspects....what order to do things, what finish you used on piece, what grit you sanded to, remember to use the same reference surface when milling domino mortises....stuff like that that you might spend a lot of time figuring out during a project but may not remember down the road.

A lot of folks choose or plan their projects so they learn or grow a new skill or two on each project. That's one way to continue learning without being overwhelmed by too many new things all at once.

The only other specific thing I have to add is to consider adding Jeff Jewitt's writings and videos to your list for learning about finishing. Good luck and keep enjoying the journey!

[Jim Becker]

I think that many of us "miss the boat" early on by not getting into the habit of doing prototypes before jumping into a project. Sometimes, it's a partial practice setup for a particular joint and sometimes it's for the whole thing when there are complexities that need to be proven/should be proven before committing to the expensive material. Yes, prototyping has some cost for material when scrap will not do, but that cost is far less than totally missing things on the $12/bt ft nice stuff for sure.

This same principle applies to finishing...it's really necessary to "burn some material", especially for spraying, to insure that technique is solid and the equipment is set up properly for the material being used.

IE...practice, practice, practice. We need to lose the "I'm just a hobbyist mentality as that's relevant when it comes to craftsmanship and skill building. It's not about the tools; rather, it's about the execution. That also means when we build things for our shop we should put the same level of effort into them that we would for that project we're going to gift to a loved one or even a client, if we do commission work. Build the jigs and fixtures with thoughtfulness. Build the shop cabinets and other "furniture" with the same care and attention to detail as required for stuff we'd put in our home or someone else's home. Etc.

And don't rush...that's when we make mistakes, miss opportunities and cost ourselves time, money and sometimes blood.

[Tony Joyce]

Build the shop cabinets and other "furniture" with the same care and attention to detail as required for stuff we'd put in our home or someone else's home. Etc.

And don't rush...that's when we make mistakes, miss opportunities and cost ourselves time, money and sometimes blood.

Sage advice, building shop cabinets or other small projects gives you practice. People who come in my shop always question the detail in my shop cabinets.
I was generally practicing a procedure or material I was going to use in the next or future project. I whole heartily believe my sig quote.

[Mitchell Ristine]

I think that many of us "miss the boat" early on by not getting into the habit of doing prototypes before jumping into a project.

I have taken to scale drawings whenever possible. I buy rolls of 36" wide white paper. When I am drawing things out I can think through joinery, know my measurements, think about cutting order..... Also, this works for me because I draw satisfaction from a well done drawing.

ps - sorry about the pun. couldn't resist.

[Mike Henderson]

A community college near me offered woodworking classes and I took most of them. It was a very good way to get started. If you have anything like that near you, I recommend it.

Even with the classes, there's a lot you learn on your own by doing.

Mike

[Jerry Wright]

I once heard a noted and prolific novelist respond to this question: " How does one become a good writer?".They responded "by writing". Corollary in woodworking - time in the shop.

[Frederick Skelly]

Bob, it sure sounds like you are doing the right things. You should post pictures of a project or two for us to see. I second the idea of keeping a notebook with techniques and lessons learned. I do. I also practice a technique I havent used for a while on scrap, before using it on a project. To me, it's like a quarterback warming up his arm before a game - my performance is just better.

About finishing. For me, it is the least favorite part of a project. But I know it's really important. So a few years ago I decided to cheat - I switched to using various kinds of wiping varnish - Tung Oil Finish, Danish Oil and the like. It isn't fancy or "deep", but it works for me. I also use just plain old Johnson's paste wax on certain small, light colored projects. I also like shellac. I have the Flexner book and it seems excellent. I plan to study it closely but haven't gotten to that "project" yet.

Those are my thoughts anyway. Enjoy your time in the shop!

Fred

[Alan Lightstone]

I had a rule (and still have, I guess), that I would alternate one shop project for one outside world project. Certainly at the beginning, the shop cabinets, drawers, jigs, etc... came first, and that's how I started to learn woodworking. I took great care in those first projects, and yes, they weren't FWW magazine material, but they still look good in retrospect. And then, my outside projects started getting better and better. And I've just about finished with a massive workbench that shows that shop projects can be important learning experiences too.

I learned a lot about finishing from reading Jeff Jewitt's book, but far more from going to Charles Neil's woodworking course (RIP Charles - great, talented guy). Being able to listen to an expert and try everything in person on different equipment was incredibly helpful in learning finishing. Of course, with Covid-19 that's on the back burner for a while, but there are some great books out there on finishing, building workbenches, bandsaws, wood boxes, shaping wood, marquetry ... I could go on forever. I've got a bookshelf full of them, and reading them has made me better at woodworking.

But mostly, it has been getting questions answered, and advice from the incredibly talented, diverse people on this forum. I don't want to name names to embarrass people, but this site is a treasure. I try to post to pay back when I can, but I sometimes feel like I'm a AAA pitcher called up to the major leagues compared to some of the talent around here.

[Brian Runau]

I started out building my shop cabinets while I laid out and installed the ductwork etc.. Every one got better. I went from a mortiser to the domino and glad I did. Same function, easier and much quicker. I build stuff I want for our us and agree finishing is a learned talent and we can always improve this skill. practice practice practice. brian

[Bob Riefer]

Bob, it sure sounds like you are doing the right things. You should post pictures of a project or two for us to see.



Well, I'm a bit shy to post, but you're right... it will probably help with getting advice. Definitely welcome constructive comments (but please be kind :-)

I've included a smattering of things I've built within the past year ranging from simple outdoor chairs through more "refined" options (at least for my skill level).

I *think* these pics will show that I can do the basics with some level of competency... thereby proving that my next goal (finishing) makes sense to pursue. What say you SMC?


Great tip on Jeff Jewitt... I'm going to add those videos/books to my Flexner learning.

And, I'm happy to hear that there's not any "that's cheating" vibe around tools like the Domino. The "simple bench" above used all mortise and tenon, and I was able to get all joints to a nice fit on the first try... but damn was it time consuming compared to what Domino would have been.

[Frederick Skelly]

Well, from the pics above, it sure looks to me like you have the hamg of things! I think they all look good!
Fred

[Jim Becker]

I have taken to scale drawings whenever possible. I buy rolls of 36" wide white paper. When I am drawing things out I can think through joinery, know my measurements, think about cutting order..... Also, this works for me because I draw satisfaction from a well done drawing.

ps - sorry about the pun. couldn't resist.

Yes, I sometimes draw things out first, either on the computer or sometimes on a piece of .25" MDF if I'm in the shop. Sometimes, a drawing isn't enough, however, so I go the partial or full prototype route just to be sure things are copacetic.

I did draw a humorous conclusion about your pun, BTW... :) :D

[Dave Mills]

Love the smores drawer, Bob! :)

[Bob Riefer]

Love the smores drawer, Bob! :)


:-) It's a serving tray actually (although the angle does make it look like a drawer, there's an identical black walnut handle on the other side too). This one goes to my folks as a Christmas present, currently in transit in fact.

My dad instilled in me a love for campfires when I was young. We always had a cool spot in the back yard to toast some marshmallows.

My parents moved from my childhood home years ago and a cobbled together fire pit just wouldn't fit the scene. For dad's birthday this year, I got him one of those "solo stoves" (stainless steal, low smoke, and you can put it away when not in use) and they love it.

So, it was only natural to build a "S'mores Caddy" so they can enjoy a treat at their next fire.

The main frame is cherry from a tree removed from my property, and the black walnut handles and "building/staging" area are also from a tree we had to remove years ago. The bottom is black locust cut from a post that was left over from when we split railed the yard.

[Bob Riefer]

Well, from the pics above, it sure looks to me like you have the hang of things! I think they all look good!
Fred


Thanks Fred! Small potatoes compared to what I commonly see here, but happy to hear your kind words.

There's a fair amount of "saving" involved in some of these.. you know, a minor mistake covered up by wizardry in the next step. But as time has gone on, there's been more "foreseeing" and less "saving" needed each time. Which I think means it's time to keep practicing existing skills AND layering in the finishing learning and other efficiencies (aka Domino).

[Bob Riefer]

Jim - your point around shop furniture is a good one too.

My first time around setting up the shop, I went "fast and good enough" route. This allowed me to get into projects, stay interested and motivated, and learn what I like and what I don't like. Little by little, I now am replacing old jigs with nicer versions that suit my more-mature-than-before preferences.

Now, with my upcoming shop renovation happening (btw... it's happening!!!!!!!!! more about that soon in "workshops" area) I was thinking a few projects would be great skill builders and would also be constantly enjoyed over the years...

First - I will have a roughly 20 foot long wall to outfit, and plan to build out custom cabinets underneath, a counter top (TBD), and shelving / storage / clamp racks. I plan to use lumber (rather than plywood) for all of it so that I can gain a lot of practice on several techniques, as well as finishing.

Second - The reno will also enable my workbench to grow a little bit in size, AND allow me to walk on all sides while in a stationary/permanent location. So, I think I'm going to build a legit and hefty bench, including drawers underneath. Again, lots of good practice steps in this sort of project, and finishing practice too.

[Phil Mueller]

Your projects look great. Nice work. You will find it fun to stretch yourself on each project and try something a little different/new...keeps me interested. I too love the smores tray...great idea.

When it comes to finishing, I decided early on to pick a couple methods/materials and try to become very proficient at it. It gave me the confidence that when it came time to finish a project, I always had a finish I could rely on. Initially I choose two...Shellac and wipe on varnishes (watco, armrseal, waterlox, etc). Both semi fool proof. I find now that I can apply these without any anxiety. Several years later, I’m still trying to perfect French Polishing. Sometimes I nail it, sometimes it’s a miss. I’ll get it someday. Point is, it’s a finish I want for some projects, and I’m going to keep working on it. I’ve since experimented with other things, but buying and trying can be a bit costly...I take it one at a time.

I also decided early on (with a few exceptions) to avoid stain. I found wood that would be the color I wanted in the end (keeping in mind, Watco has a few color choices and I’ve used that to enhance/darken at times). It’s not always the perfect solution, but eliminates steps in the finish schedule and potential issues.

Carry on, you’re doing great.

[matt romanowski]

I'm a big reader/researcher, but in the end, I have to just get into doing things. You can read, understand, and visualize, but until you start cutting it's really not happening. I'm a bit odd in things too - I don't enjoy building large amounts of shop stuff, jigs, etc. I like building the things I want. But, everyone's journey is different. The outline and journey you outlined looks solid. If you're enjoying yourself, it's all good!

[Bob Riefer]

Your projects look great. Nice work. You will find it fun to stretch yourself on each project and try something a little different/new...keeps me interested. I too love the smores tray...great idea.

When it comes to finishing, I decided early on to pick a couple methods/materials and try to become very proficient at it. It gave me the confidence that when it came time to finish a project, I always had a finish I could rely on. Initially I choose two...Shellac and wipe on varnishes (watco, armrseal, waterlox, etc). Both semi fool proof. I find now that I can apply these without any anxiety. Several years later, I’m still trying to perfect French Polishing. Sometimes I nail it, sometimes it’s a miss. I’ll get it someday. Point is, it’s a finish I want for some projects, and I’m going to keep working on it. I’ve since experimented with other things, but buying and trying can be a bit costly...I take it one at a time.

I also decided early on (with a few exceptions) to avoid stain. I found wood that would be the color I wanted in the end (keeping in mind, Watco has a few color choices and I’ve used that to enhance/darken at times). It’s not always the perfect solution, but eliminates steps in the finish schedule and potential issues.

Carry on, you’re doing great.


Thanks Phil! And, I really like the idea of picking a couple finish approaches to focus on as my "go to" choices. And, I like "fool proof" because I'm admittedly on the fool side of the spectrum when it comes to finishing right now :-)

Adding "Shellac and wipe on varnishes (watco, armrseal, waterlox, etc)" to my research list. THANK YOU

[Cary Falk]

I started woodworking before I was in grade school. In high school I worked in a cabinet shop sanding and running the finish room. Woodworking is probably the only thing in life that doesn't stress me out. There are a million techniques that I haven't tried. I don't feel the need to do all of them. There are always things I would like to try but my list of things that need to get done outweighs my list of things I want to try. I don't stress about it it is all woodworking.

My learning consists of trying it. (I don't usually read a lot of books on any subject) I either see it through or in the interest of time go back to the old way to get the job done and retest at a later time. A well executed simple joint is better then a poorly executed complicated one. The learning journey is different for everybody. It sounds like you are stressing out too much about this. I am not sure what the hurry is to learn everything.

I don't feel like any tool to get the job done is "cheating". I often see debates by the hand tool people that claim anything with a cord is cheating. If that is the case then all those fancy planes, chisels, etc are cheating for them and they should just have a sharp knife and whittle/carve everything to completion. If a tool makes me faster, more accurate, and makes the task more enjoyable then so be it. If I had to do this with a just a handsaw and hammer I wouldn't be doing it because It wouldn't be enjoyable for me. Other people feel differently and that is ok. I joke around with a friend of mine. He despises a cresent wrench and i despise a handsaw. We will use them if we have to but they are not our go too tools. There is always more then one way to skin a cat so to speak.

As far as finishing goes I could read all the books in the world but until the finish hits the board the book means nothing. Trying techniques on scrap works. Problems seem to present themselves on the actual piece.

The will always be mistakes. Not one of my projects is perfect. I think they is something on each project that I would do differently if I were to do it again. If my wife can see it then fix wasn't good enough, otherwise I am just obsessing over it.

It sounds like you are in this because you want to do it not because you have/need to do it so don't stress about it or you will burn yourself out. Your plan sounds solid if it is working for you. Make some sawdust. Wood is one thing that does grow on trees.

[Bob Riefer]

It sounds like you are stressing out too much about this. I am not sure what the hurry is to learn everything.

It sounds like you are in this because you want to do it not because you have/need to do it so don't stress about it or you will burn yourself out. Your plan sounds solid if it is working for you. Make some sawdust. Wood is one thing that does grow on trees.


Sounds like you took my post as being a stress-filled one. My fault, and not my intent at all. Simply looking to find out if I'm approaching this ocean's-worth of learning sensibly.

[Bob Riefer]

That said, another idea is quickly growing some interest...

The home and barn renovation is about to start in about 2-3 weeks. Most important to this thread, is that my shop will get a nice boost in available space (about 5 feet additional space x about 17.5 feet in length).

I have long dreamed of a nicer workbench. I have ready so many conflicting buy vs. build opinions. But I think the deciding vote was my son...

I asked him:
"Boy... you know I would like to fill that new space with a sturdy, flat, useful, beautiful workbench... I could build one, or I could buy one... what do you think?"

And he replied (without hesitation):
"Build it... you'll only really like it if you do it... and, it will be cool to say my dad built that."



I'm without-project for the next couple weeks... I've been wanting to read THE ANARCHIST’S WORKBENCH... maybe build my future workbench?



Not-to-say I don't want to take on the finishing journey too... but maybe my first "subject" can be this bench.




What do you think? Bench as a good skill builder, shop productivity improver, and practice piece for finishing?

[Jim Becker]

Building your bench certainly had skill building potential. But it's also an opportunity to have a bench that has a design that matches your own workflow, preferred woodworking techniques including alignment/hold-downs and size. Any bench you buy will be a compromise in some way, shape or form. Of course, that means you can't just "dive in" without giving the project some careful thought and doing some planning. I will add one specific comment about a feature that is important to me for work surfaces in my shop...adjustable height. Think about it...

[Bill Conerly]

"but I sometimes feel like I'm a AAA pitcher called up to the major leagues compared to some of the talent around here."

And I feel like the kid who just finished first year of Little League.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Lots of reference work in print, and probably as many recommendations as posters here. I liked The Workbench by Lon Schleining, Taunton Press.

[Ron Citerone]

"but I sometimes feel like I'm a AAA pitcher called up to the major leagues compared to some of the talent around here."

And I feel like the kid who just finished first year of Little League.

I am humbled by some of the work on here too. Just because you see something that you may not aspire to do doesn't mean you can't just enjoy it and appreciate it.

Without sounding cocky, I believe I am a pretty good fisherman but there are so many I know who I will never be able to compare to. They have specialized, put in their time on the water and deserve their due. Same with woodworking.

Enjoy the talents of others without diminishing your own growth. Best way to go IMO.

[Derek Cohen]

Starting out in woodworking is similar to moving to a new city: in the beginning one is anxious about finding the way around, and we memorise and stick to one route between home and the work place. As we begin to “see” a progressively bigger picture, understanding how the parts go together, we become more comfortable branching out this way or that. We know enough to understand the potential consequences of a shortcut or chosen joinery.

In short, when starting out, we struggle to see the Big Picture. Starting point >>>> end point .... and little in between. I know what I want to make, but how do I get there?

I wrote about this on another forum recently, and to a member of this forum .... an area which beginners do not consider is wood movement. This is as much an important feature of design and construction as the work itself. One of the concerns I have about all the modern day joinery methods - such as biscuits and dominos (and I own these tools myself) - is that they provide a shortcut to construction for those starting out. This obviates some of the most important teaching areas. One of the benefits of learning traditional joinery is that it is more likely that one also learns to pay attention to wood movement.

I fear that the mechanical joiners of this world encourage the building of furniture that only has to last a few years. By contrast, I expect everything I build (with traditional joinery and attention to grain direction and expansion) to last a century. If anyone wants it, of course https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/Smileys/default/unsure.gif

When starting out, take the time to read up on traditional joinery. Watch videos of those using it. Link this with design and construction methods for solid wood (as opposed to panels of MDF and ply) since construction demands are different. Try your hand at traditional joints, such as mortice-and-tenon and dovetailing. Make them with machines and by hand. Learn to fit out frame-and-panel doors with solid wood. Ditto drawers and drawer bottoms.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ron Citerone]

4. Around learning finishing... My plan is to study the Flexner book like I'm in grad school. If it takes working on scrap, in addition to trying techniques on actual projects, I'll do that too. Decent approach?

Thanks!

The best advice given about finishing I ever heard was simply this. Find a few finishes that you like and stick with them, perfect them. I happen to mostly use Waterlox and have developed a method that keeps evolving. To keep trying a new finish on each project is like sitting in a bar all day switching drinks IMO.

[Derek Cohen]

Again, simple can work, but take the time to expand understanding.

Finishes serve different purposes. Oil- versus water-based poly, various oil finishes, shellac and shellac-composites, lacquer .... and then a whole host of application methods.

We start out with something tried-and-true, easy to apply - even stick with them forever if they do a specific task well (a specific wood for a specific environment). But there is much to be gained in understanding a wider range. My present piece (a chest) involves staining and grain-filling, then protecting the outside of a case .... which is different from finishing the inside of drawers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[roger wiegand]

So one option is to pick your battles. Finishing is a different trade than joinery; each requires its own 20,000 hours of study (or whatever) to become proficient at it. There's no shame, and many advantages to focus-- choose what you want to master and focus on it; let someone else who has already mastered the trade do the part you're less interested in. Hiring a capable pro to finish projects is a completely reasonable option that many expert woodworkers take.

[Rod Sheridan]

My production of artisanal firewood continues 45 years strong:D

I was lucky to have my FIL as an educational source, a person who was lucky enough to have completed an apprenticeship in England before the war.

He was the last of that general type who was required to study drawing and sketching in the artistic venue as well as fabric making, painting, colouring and other arts as well as some architecture and of course furniture making.

Mornings at school, afternoons at work, part of your wages garnisheed for tools.

It gave him a different language and skills, he knew what the correct names were for every component of woodwork, whether for furniture or architecture.

I still laugh at him teaching me how to make dovetails, I came with every marking tool and aid known to mankind and proceeded to demonstrate my prowess at measuring and marking.

After a few moments he took the pencil from me, tossed it aside and said “nobody is paying for your drawing”. He picked up a chisel, rolled it across the board, counting the rolls. He scribed a faint line with a marking gauge, placed a few marks on the end of the board with the chisel.

Putting the board in the vies he sawed the tails with a rip saw in three strokes, two forceful which took 90% of the cut and one more careful cut to finish, chisel out the waste in very few operations and trace the tails onto the other board with a knife.

Same rapid work, then after a few minutes, a completed joint, I would have still been drawing lines. As I stood there, mouth agape he said “after your first thousand drawers you get better”.

That’s what’s been helpful to me, people, including those here who share their skills, that and making a pile of artisanal firewood.

Sadly, we lost him this year, his brass and wood folding rule he bought in the 1930’s sits in my shop drawer next to my digital calipers, I’m sure it would produce a wry smile on his face.

To all of you who helped me, and countless others get a little more proficient, thanks for paying it forward.....Rod.

[Clifford McGuire]

.......One of the concerns I have about all the modern day joinery methods - such as biscuits and dominos (and I own these tools myself) - is that they provide a shortcut to construction for those starting out. This obviates some of the most important teaching areas. One of the benefits of learning traditional joinery is that it is more likely that one also learns to pay attention to wood movement.

I fear that the mechanical joiners of this world encourage the building of furniture that only has to last a few years. By contrast, I expect everything I build (with traditional joinery and attention to grain direction and expansion) to last a century. If anyone wants it, of course https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/Smileys/default/unsure.gif


Derek


^^^^^^ This. ^^^^^^^^

A well fitting M&T is the pinnacle of joinery, and immensely satisfying. To me, it separates my work from the stuff you can buy at IKEA.

[Bob Riefer]

My production of artisanal firewood continues 45 years strong:D

I was lucky to have my FIL as an educational source, a person who was lucky enough to have completed an apprenticeship in England before the war.

He was the last of that general type who was required to study drawing and sketching in the artistic venue as well as fabric making, painting, colouring and other arts as well as some architecture and of course furniture making.

Mornings at school, afternoons at work, part of your wages garnisheed for tools.

It gave him a different language and skills, he knew what the correct names were for every component of woodwork, whether for furniture or architecture.

I still laugh at him teaching me how to make dovetails, I came with every marking tool and aid known to mankind and proceeded to demonstrate my prowess at measuring and marking.

After a few moments he took the pencil from me, tossed it aside and said “nobody is paying for your drawing”. He picked up a chisel, rolled it across the board, counting the rolls. He scribed a faint line with a marking gauge, placed a few marks on the end of the board with the chisel.

Putting the board in the vies he sawed the tails with a rip saw in three strokes, two forceful which took 90% of the cut and one more careful cut to finish, chisel out the waste in very few operations and trace the tails onto the other board with a knife.

Same rapid work, then after a few minutes, a completed joint, I would have still been drawing lines. As I stood there, mouth agape he said “after your first thousand drawers you get better”.

That’s what’s been helpful to me, people, including those here who share their skills, that and making a pile of artisanal firewood.

Sadly, we lost him this year, his brass and wood folding rule he bought in the 1930’s sits in my shop drawer next to my digital calipers, I’m sure it would produce a wry smile on his face.

To all of you who helped me, and countless others get a little more proficient, thanks for paying it forward.....Rod.


Thank you for sharing that Rod. Really powerful, and a very fitting tribute.

(PS - I too make firewood... I'm not sure it qualifies as artisanal yet though ;))

[Bob Riefer]

The best advice given about finishing I ever heard was simply this. Find a few finishes that you like and stick with them, perfect them. I happen to mostly use Waterlox and have developed a method that keeps evolving. To keep trying a new finish on each project is like sitting in a bar all day switching drinks IMO.


Thanks Ron! A few others have mentioned the same to me, and I think this is how I will start. My current approach typically ends with a pretty nicely built piece of furniture topped with a subpar finish. If I can have finishing end as nicely as the build, that'll be motivating.

[Bob Riefer]

Starting out in woodworking is similar to moving to a new city: in the beginning one is anxious about finding the way around, and we memorise and stick to one route between home and the work place. As we begin to “see” a progressively bigger picture, understanding how the parts go together, we become more comfortable branching out this way or that. We know enough to understand the potential consequences of a shortcut or chosen joinery.

In short, when starting out, we struggle to see the Big Picture. Starting point >>>> end point .... and little in between. I know what I want to make, but how do I get there?

I wrote about this on another forum recently, and to a member of this forum .... an area which beginners do not consider is wood movement. This is as much an important feature of design and construction as the work itself. One of the concerns I have about all the modern day joinery methods - such as biscuits and dominos (and I own these tools myself) - is that they provide a shortcut to construction for those starting out. This obviates some of the most important teaching areas. One of the benefits of learning traditional joinery is that it is more likely that one also learns to pay attention to wood movement.

I fear that the mechanical joiners of this world encourage the building of furniture that only has to last a few years. By contrast, I expect everything I build (with traditional joinery and attention to grain direction and expansion) to last a century. If anyone wants it, of course https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/Smileys/default/unsure.gif

When starting out, take the time to read up on traditional joinery. Watch videos of those using it. Link this with design and construction methods for solid wood (as opposed to panels of MDF and ply) since construction demands are different. Try your hand at traditional joints, such as mortice-and-tenon and dovetailing. Make them with machines and by hand. Learn to fit out frame-and-panel doors with solid wood. Ditto drawers and drawer bottoms.

Regards from Perth

Derek


Great analogy Derek! It definitely applies to me. I think I have figured out how to get to work, grocery store, and back home again. But the route could be more scenic or efficient or varied etc.

And, you're touching upon my Domino question... The reason I ask if it's "cheating" is that I wonder if there are instances where that tool would enable me to build certain assemblies that I couldn't otherwise produce another way (yet). And, perhaps that shortcut would reduce understanding.

As contrast... many of the techniques that I have practiced so far began with hand cutting, and then using the whatever-I-have-on-hand power tool options (cobble together a solution). With that done, I have often then upgraded a tool and/or built the exact jig that I want (i.e. After the first two steps, I knew what I wanted, what good looks like, and devised a way that I like to do it efficiently). Kind of like learning long division before using a calculator.

[Bob Riefer]

Again, simple can work, but take the time to expand understanding.

Finishes serve different purposes. Oil- versus water-based poly, various oil finishes, shellac and shellac-composites, lacquer .... and then a whole host of application methods.

We start out with something tried-and-true, easy to apply - even stick with them forever if they do a specific task well (a specific wood for a specific environment). But there is much to be gained in understanding a wider range. My present piece (a chest) involves staining and grain-filling, then protecting the outside of a case .... which is different from finishing the inside of drawers.

Regards from Perth

Derek



A few posts ago, I mentioned to Ron that finding a method or two that fits my current builds would be a great way to have some confidence that my finishing results are at least up to a similar standard as my build results. And I think that's right since I'm driven/motivated to produce useful pieces while I learn (especially since woodworking seems to be a lifelong learning activity).

But... I do want the lifelong learning.

And... there's only so much time to dedicate to woodworking/finishing/learning (and my wife/kids would probably say that it's less time than I already give it)..

So... while using "tried and true" for my usual projects seems sensible... how do I recognize instances where a project would be a good candidate for learning a new finish?

[Jim Becker]

My production of artisanal firewood continues 45 years strong:D.

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[Phil Mueller]

I might add, Bob, that the initial two choices I made on finishing included one that was very durable, and one that’s less durable. Anything that won’t have the potential for liquid exposure or a lot of handling usually gets some sort of Watco or Shellac, or both. Things that need to be durable, got the GF ArmRSeal. And in some cases, the top got ArmRSeal and the rest got shellac.

And both of these can be done to get the look you’re after; natural wood, satin, even high gloss.

Also depends on the wood. For example, walnut, that tends to lighten over time, I would use Watco Medium or Dark Walnut first to retain the dark color over time. I also played with various shellacs (clear, amber, garnet, etc). I have a number of pieces that have Watco first, then shellac or ArmRSeal.

Then I played with ways to tone the finish. Gel stain over shellac, etc. Once I got confident with a couple of finishes, I tried different variations. Many see a greater depth of finish when multiple layers are applied.

And I’ve spent a considerable amount of time working on fixing problems. I’ve concentrated on clear shellac burn in sticks, and coloring with powder dyes with shellac as the medium.

I guess the bottom line is that it can end with a few finishes, or infinite products and variations. I started with just getting a decent finish that had the appropriate level of durability. Then moved to working on different depth and tones.