What technique would you use to fit a frameless cabinet to an out-of-plumb wall?

[Ken Cobbing]

Hi all,

I'm building a frameless bathroom vanity that has walls on three sides.

All three walls are completely tiled all the way to the floor.

The two side walls are a bit out of square with the back being narrower than the front. I decided to build the cabinet square and now have gaps on both side walls.

The left-side gap is about 7/16 from top to bottom. The right-side gap is 3/16 at the bottom and 7/16 at the top.

I am planning on a bank of drawers on both sides with doors in the middle.

What options/techniques would you use to deal with the side gaps for this installation?

Here's what I've come up with:

1. The easiest option is to just leave it as is! Since the walls are tiled it doesn't look too bad, and the only disadvantage here is that the right-side gap varies 1/4 inch from top to bottom. I can see the inconsistent gap on the right side, but my wife probably wouldn't notice unless I told her...

2. The drawers on the sides will be full overlay. I could cut the drawer faces oversize to cover the gap. On the right-hand side I could cut the drawer faces on a slight angle to account for the out-of-plumb wall.

3. Install a filler strip on both sides. I have a track saw and could cut the angled filler strip on the right-side without a problem.

Any thoughts? Options 1 and 2 are my own independent ideas as a beginner - are they dumb?

[lowell holmes]

I would make a cardboard or plywood pattern and then build the cabinet using the pattern.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

normally I would expect to either....

1. scribe the area and then make something to fit. Usually that means a face frame, molding, or insert between the wall and the cabinet.

2. use a molding that is thin enough to follow the contour and somewhat hide the gap. I did this when a cabinet was set against a wall and you can stand next to the cabinet and see behind the cabinet because of a gap. The thin molding was small enough to bridge the gap, but against the side of the cabinet you could not tell that there might be a 1/4" difference from the bottom to the top.

Then what will you do with the top to keep things from falling down behind the cabinet? Scribe the top? My kitchen counters have something like a small backsplash and then they simply caulked between that and the wall. A problem if the gap is large, but I did not have that problem.

[jamil mehdi]

Shims and scribe.

No walls are plumb or flat. Frameless cabinets still need filler panels, or shims and scribe to fit in alcoves.

[Paul F Franklin]

Too late for you because you built the cabinet, but what I did in a similar situation was to build the cabinet 2" narrower than the opening, roughly 1" on each side. Then I scribed and fit strips to block the gap, but affixed them to the cabinet about 2" back from the front. This gives the appearance of a free standing vanity (which is popular these days). The side strips prevent having to paint or dust that very narrow space. You could do the same thing for the same reason, I guess.

I'd either leave it or go with the oversize drawer fronts. You may want to split the difference, in other words, correct only half the variation in the gap to avoid having the drawer fronts look too wonky.

[Doug Dawson]

This space is crying out for a cabinet that is substantially narrower, or else no cabinet at all.

[Kevin Jenness]

I use recessed scribe strips set back 1/2" or so from the cabinet face on both sides.- the setback depth is arbitrary. You can cut the right sided drawer faces to match the wall angle, no-one will detect the out of square condition. Cabinets built off site would typically not have the drawer fronts scribed but there's no reason for you not to do it. You need to leave a gap between the drawer fronts and tile anyway so the drawers can operate- the greater the reveal the less any inconsistencies show. I typically have the fronts flush to the cabinet sides.

Are you planning to mount doors on partitions? It is generally easier to assemble the entire cabinet on the bench including hardware prior to installation. The partitions need to be parallel to the sidewalls for the drawer slides to work.

Building the cabinet intentionally out of square to accommodate site conditions is rarely a good idea, especially when drawers are involved. Scribing is an essential skill for the cabinet installer.

[Ken Cobbing]

Thanks for all the replies :)


I would make a cardboard or plywood pattern and then build the cabinet using the pattern.

Sorry for the noobish question, but: if I built a pattern for the out-of-square alcove - and then built the cabinet out-of-square to fit, how would fitting drawers work? Or maybe I am misunderstanding your suggestion to make a pattern first.


normally I would expect to either....
Then what will you do with the top to keep things from falling down behind the cabinet?

The countertop will be quartz and has been measured to fit the space so this shouldn't be a problem.


I'd either leave it or go with the oversize drawer fronts. You may want to split the difference, in other words, correct only half the variation in the gap to avoid having the drawer fronts look too wonky.

I like this idea of splitting the difference. I am going to strongly consider that option.


This space is crying out for a cabinet that is substantially narrower, or else no cabinet at all.

What do you mean no cabinet at all? Do you mean a pedestal sink instead of a vanity? I think I agree that the cabinet is aesthetically large for the space, but this is the only bathroom in a small 1950s house and so the large cabinet is necessary for basic functionality.


I use recessed scribe strips set back 1/2" or so from the cabinet face on both sides.- the setback depth is arbitrary. You can cut the right sided drawer faces to match the wall angle, no-one will detect the out of square condition. Cabinets built off site would typically not have the drawer fronts scribed but there's no reason for you not to do it. You need to leave a gap between the drawer fronts and tile anyway so the drawers can operate- the greater the reveal the less any inconsistencies show. I typically have the fronts flush to the cabinet sides.

Are you planning to mount doors on partitions? It is generally easier to assemble the entire cabinet on the bench including hardware prior to installation. The partitions need to be parallel to the sidewalls for the drawer slides to work.

Building the cabinet intentionally out of square to accommodate site conditions is rarely a good idea, especially when drawers are involved. Scribing is an essential skill for the cabinet installer.

Great advice. Yes, I am planning to mount the doors on two partitions. I would have preferred to install all the hardware on the bench, but I don't know exactly where I can install the partitions until the quartz countertop and sink is installed.

[Ole Anderson]

Shims, lots of shims...

[John TenEyck]

What Kevin said.

John

[Bradley Gray]

Since you will have a bank of drawers on each each side, make and install the drawer boxes flush with the front of the cabinet box. Fit a piece of plywood (or whatever the drawer fronts need to be) to cover each stack of drawers in one piece, so that you have a consistent gap from the wall. Then cut apart the individual drawer fronts.

Use shims the thickness of your saw cut to re-align the fronts as you attach them to the drawer boxes.

[Tom Bender]

And another thing

The floor of that cabinet will get wet and chemicals will get spilled on it. Install a plastic floor of some kind and caulk it to the sides.

[Ryan Yeaglin]

If you are planning on drawers on both side, there should be inner dividers for the drawer slide to attach to.They could be attached to the top cleats via dados. You could then make a pattern for each side out of card board and make the drawer faces match the contour of the out of square walls, keeping the inner side square to match the doors as they too will need something to attach to. I would pull the cabinet, but beforehand put a few match marks on it and the wall so your templates will work out correctly. Shop build it, then install the cabinet and the counter top. It was also mentioned about water... make sure to finish the inside where the utilities hook up to avoid water damage.

[Jim Becker]

It occurs to me that many folks make this kind of job harder by making the cabinet case too wide so they leave a very difficult job in creating scribed fillers to close up the space. If you leave a generous 3/4" or full inch or so on each side, you'll be able to clamp a wider filler piece plumb with the cabinet (the cabinet needs to be temporarily installed level and plumb as it will be when finished!) and scribe the edge. And the filler pieces will be easier to apply to the edge of the cabinet. Also the edge of the scribed piece should be back-beveled so minor adjustments can be made while doing the final installation.

One other thing...you MUST be willing to slightly damage the finish on the walls during the cabinet installation. The nature of drywall mud at corners, etc. makes that a requirement. That little bit of scuffing is easy to fix and invisible after paint is applied/reapplied properly.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

This is a common issue with furniture style vanity cabinets. The ones on legs, no toe kick. They cannot be scribe stripped as a normal cabinet is because it just doesn't look good. Kevin is right, set the strip back a bit though and it all looks better. It's common to just ignore the gap in this application to, but I personally prefer the recessed scribes.

[Tom M King]

Just let the drawer fronts overhang, and cut to fit like you want.

[Bruce Wrenn]

And another thing

The floor of that cabinet will get wet and chemicals will get spilled on it. Install a plastic floor of some kind and caulk it to the sides.


That's why I build sink bases and vanities with a floor that slopes 1/4" towards the front. Put vinyl flooring on bottom. and shoe molding around the sides and back. Use an aluminum edge strip on front of vinyl to prevent tearing. This way if you have a leak, it runs to the front, and out onto floor where you will see it before bottom of cabinet rots away.

[Dave Sabo]

You need fillers. They serve the same function as a face frame or extended faceframe when placed next to a wall.

this guys does a decent job of showing them, but the camera work is dizzying. :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUJLl1DWKLE

At this point I'd suggest to make your drawer fronts to act as the defacto filler now. Less work than making a new cabinet + two fillers. Arguably a better look too. You simply make the right edge of the right drawer fronts longer to cover the gap and follow the contour of the wall. Place a sliver of carcass material 3/8" wide in the current gap and call it done.


Fitted trays can be ordered for the bottoms that don't look like you cobbled something together. Use of a WaterCop sensor or similar is even better. Almost unnoticeable, and you don't have to build your cabinet out of square.

[Brian Runau]

I'd put a face frame on it and scribe it to the walls with a little clearance. Brian

[Jim Becker]

That's why I build sink bases and vanities with a floor that slopes 1/4" towards the front. Put vinyl flooring on bottom. and shoe molding around the sides and back. Use an aluminum edge strip on front of vinyl to prevent tearing. This way if you have a leak, it runs to the front, and out onto floor where you will see it before bottom of cabinet rots away.
As an aside, there are some cabinet manufacturers that are now making their sink bases using composite/plastic materials that are impervious to water. From the front, they are identical to all the surrounding wood cabinets. Given the availability of alternative materials these days, any of us could consider that for our own projects.

[Dave Sabo]

Jim,

That came across my desk the other day for perusal. Pretty neat.

We’ve been using fitted aluminum trays for a couple of decades now. Sometimes in trash cabinets too.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, the idea of using water impermeable materials for the core of a sink base makes a lot of sense. I'd surely consider that if I had the situation come up in the future for sure.

[Tom M King]

I have a standard question I ask any plumber, whenever I meet a new one: "Do you have a bucket under a sink at home?" So far, I've never had one to answer that they didn't, along with a laugh.

[Mel Fulks]

I have a standard question I ask any plumber, whenever I meet a new one: "Do you have a bucket under a sink at home?" So far, I've never had one to answer that they didn't, along with a laugh.
Here's an idea for the state liscence plates!! : Bucketo and Tarhealum
Leaks at Ceilum
And I only took Latin one year ....ya' never forgeto that stufum !

[mreza Salav]

Fillers. Assuming you use 3/4" filler material, put a back stop 3/4" from the edge, put the cabinet in place and secure, put the filler in place and shoot a few pin nails from inside the cabinet to hold the filler in place, done.

[jamil mehdi]

I just noticed another problem you're going to have. If your drawers are full overlay, you're going to hit the door casing that isn't installed yet.

[Ken Cobbing]

Great ideas and replies. Thanks to all!

Regarding water leakage: I sure hope that I don't have this problem considering I've just replaced all the plumbing myself! But maybe that is actually more cause for concern, lol!

To protect against water, I used plastic laminate as a solution in the kitchen. It looks neat and professional and provides protection for the "floor" of the cabinet, but not the sides. The main objective was to protect the wood bottom from scratching up and getting gummed up with chemicals and cleaners as well as provide protection from damp sponges etc.


I just noticed another problem you're going to have. If your drawers are full overlay, you're going to hit the door casing that isn't installed yet.

Good looking out! This actually isn't a problem though. If you look at the edge of the tile in the photo you can see a white Schluter edge. I designed this detail so that the door casing is flush with the tile and sits next to the Schluter edge instead of on top of the tile. In other words, the drawers won't have any obstructions in front of them even when the doors and casing are installed.