Time for a Ryoba. Buyers guide?

[Bob Jones 5443]

The other day I needed to go through the end of a longish (30") slab of maple. I needed a rip of about 3" mating with a crosscut of about 2". Both lengths exceeded the reach of my dovetail saws, of course. I am fond of pullsaws for hardwoods, so I thought a Ryoba would be a good idea.

I've been looking at the Gyokucho line, and I see lots and lots of model numbers: 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, and many others. Then there are Ryoba with the traditional cane wrap handle. It's a bit overwhelming.

Through laborious clicking I see that the models differ in the tooth count and plate thickness, but nowhere have I found a simple table displaying the differences. I'd like to find such a comparison table to help me choose my first Ryoba. Anyone know where to find this reference?

[Bob Jones 5443]

Well, I spent some time zig-zagging between the Woodcraft and Hida sites and came up with this.

There is a series with the cane-wound handle and a corresponding series with a TPE (thermoplastic elastomer) handle. It looks like everything starts with one or the other of these handle types. Then, what distinguishes the saw is the blade. So there are two model numbers for each blade type (except for the 651, for which I did not see a TPE version).



cane handle

TPE handle





length
rip
cross
plate


length
rip
cross
plate

Replacement



mm
tpi
tpi
mm


mm
tpi
tpi
mm

blade


605
210
8
17
0.45

660
210
8
17
0.45

S-605


610
240
8
15
0.5

661
240
7
14
0.5

S-610


611
240
10
20
0.45

662
240
9
22
0.45

S-611


615
270
6
11
0.6

663
270
6
11
0.6

S-615


616
300
6
11
0.45

664
300
6
9
0.45

S-616


651
240
9
22
0.45

N/A?




S-651



In the table above, the information for the cane handle saws came from Hida, and the 66X series data came from the Woodcraft site. Note the minor discrepancies in a couple of the blade models. I have to assume the actual tpi spec is somewhere in the middle, and probably has something to do with inch/mm conversion. Or maybe there are just errors? When two models use the same replacement blade, you know they're the same saw except for the handle type.

In general the Hida prices beat Woodcraft, but right now Woodcraft is discounting the 661 and 663. These have the coarser tpi and the thickest plates.

I'll sleep on it. The tradeoff seems to be finer but slower cut (611/662) vs. faster cut but possibly more saw marks 610/661). Then again, I expect to finish surfaces with planes and other smoothing tools, so maybe the saw marks won't be an issue. I'm intrigued by the TPE handle, traditionalists forgive me. Looks like I'm leaning toward the 661, all things considered.

As always, I'm hoping to collect some of the wisdom here.

[Jim Matthews]

I have a Gyokucho S-650 with a rattan handle.

I also have a few with synthetic rubber handles. If a long session is planned, I wear gardening gloves with a rubber grip. I don't notice a difference then.

It's nearly ten years in my shop. It still has all its teeth.
If I don't rush rip cuts, it's relentlessly straight.

I consider it suitable for rough crosscut (paring expected). It's thick enough that I haven't bent it.

The current S-651 appears to be the improved version.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/9-1-2-double-edge-ryoba-razorsaw-for-hardwoods-razorsaw-1

****

The teeth on some of these blades are impulse AND induction hardened - sharpening isn't realistic.

****

I prefer saws that use a screw to hold replacement blades. Truth to be told, only my thinnest saws have needed replacement, from trying to go "just a little" faster.

[Jim Koepke]

I'll sleep on it. The tradeoff seems to be finer but slower cut (611/662) vs. faster cut but possibly more saw marks 610/661). Then again, I expect to finish surfaces with planes and other smoothing tools, so maybe the saw marks won't be an issue.

My understanding has been the set of the teeth are more likely what causes saw marks. This could just be my imagination.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

My understanding has been the set of the teeth are more likely what causes saw marks. This could just be my imagination.

jtk

I've had a handful of cuts come out dead square and ready to glue up. They were in Poplar, and I wasn't in a rush.

These saws don't reward heavy handling.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Well, not a lot of hubbub about this one. I guess everyone has already found their Ryoba?

I opted for the 661 with the moderate tooth count and the thin-ish plate. It might turn out to be the one I practice with before stepping up to the extra fine saw.

[Jim Matthews]

Well, not a lot of hubbub about this one. I guess everyone has already found their Ryoba?

I opted for the 661 with the moderate tooth count and the thin-ish plate. It might turn out to be the one I practice with before stepping up to the extra fine saw.
My finer saws all have a stiffener like a back saw.

[Dean Arthur]

Like Jim said, for finer work go with a Japanese backsaw, i.e. a dozuki.

Lots of information out there about Japanese saws - but I agree, often incredibly confusing as there is a lot of overlap in these saws. I've done a lot of trial and error and have a set of Japanese saws I'm very happy with - all Gyokucho brands - that covers most of my sawing needs. I have used all of them with standard American hardwoods - maple, oak, walnut, cherry, etc. - no issues at all, just let the saw do the work.

My favorite "construction" saw is a No. 655. A massive 270mm ryoba that has aggressive, quick cutting teeth for both crosscut and rip. 10.2TPI crosscut, 4.5-6.7TPI ripcut (teeth smaller closer to handle for easier start). This thing is just fun and incredibly effective - to me it's a neander circular saw.

My next favorite saw is a No 306 - a cross cut dozuki with a bit more aggressive teeth, but still very fine. I use this all the time for anything under 4/4. 18TPI crosscut. Best balance of speed and precision in my opinion, with the added versatility of the curved cutting end (veneer, mid panel cuts, etc.).

My dovetail saw is the well regarded No 372. I'm not as over the moon about this as most people are, but it works fine. I think the issue is I've been using it for cuts it wasn't intended for - basically this should be used on material 3/4" or less. 19TPI ripcut

I also have a No 410 Kabeki - marketed as a "hardwood" saw, I kind of just use this as a general saw for abusive cuts in things like plywood, pvc, etc. 16TPI crosscut.

Hopefully that helps a bit as you start looking at Japanese saws. I wouldn't stop at just the ryoba.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I have both Western and Dozuki backsaws. My need the other day was for a pullsaw that could make cuts longer than 2”, hence the Ryoba. I don’t remember whether I came across the 655 when I did my search, though I did see the 615. Similar, I wonder?

[Jim Matthews]

I have both Western and Dozuki backsaws. My need the other day was for a pullsaw that could make cuts longer than 2”, hence the Ryoba. I don’t remember whether I came across the 655 when I did my search, though I did see the 615. Similar, I wonder?

Might be all that's currently available.
Hida says it's. 6mm thick (which is robust for a pull saw), and the teeth are impulse hardened.

It looks like a medium duty saw that will handle most tasks. FYI - I built a miter guide with inset magnets for 45 degree and square through cuts.

It works fine with my Ryoba.

(Emulated Katz-Moses)

https://hidatool.com/list/?q=&sort=default_price_asc&bn=gyokucho&limit=30