Looking for Advice on a Sliding Table saw

[Ronald Blue]

I have an opportunity to purchase a 2 year old ShopFox sliding table saw. I'm not looking for a critique of the machine. That's not my question. I know a slider can be safer, and easier to do many different things. After looking into the general concept isn't a slider more suited to volume breaking down of sheet goods? If that's true I see it as a luxury but not a necessity. I just don't know that I would get anywhere near enough benefit from it to put it in my shop. Any and all constructive input and knowledge welcome.

[Mike Kreinhop]

In my shop, I use a track saw to rip large sheet goods, but use the slider for everything else. I can't imagine using my slider just to break down sheet goods.

[Ronald Blue]

I claim no slider knowledge so that's why I'm here. So a slider does everything a "conventional saw" does along with keeping your hands away from the blade. I suppose I should look at YouTube as I'm sure there are many videos touting the benefits of a slider. I know there are more than a few here solidly behind the sliders role in woodworking. I wish I knew someone that has one of any brand I could see in use.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

A slider is good with sheets, but it's also great with solid stock. Ripping a straight line off the carriage in lieu of jointing flat is a game changer. You can also rapidly crosscut to length using the stop systems on most saws. I know nothing about the Shop Fox, my experience is with Felder predominantly.

[Mike Kreinhop]

I didn't buy my slider because it's safer, I bought it because it was the only saw available that wasn't a contractor saw. I was looking for a nice cabinet saw, but there is no market for them in Germany. There are plenty of vendors in the UK who sell cabinet saws, but none would ship to Germany. I am glad I bought the slider and wouldn't consider replacing it with a cabinet saw now.

For safety, I don't think any device with a large spinning slicing device can be truly safe. Make it idiot proof, and someone will find a better idiot. However, in my opinion, the slider is about as safe as can be. When I see some woodworking videos with people pushing sheetgoods over the exposed blade of a cabinet saw to the point where their upper body is over the blade, I am glad I have a slider. Now that I installed a positioner on the sliding wagon, I do all of my crosscutting and ripping while standing to the left of the blade.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

There are a lot of things to know about sliders. First of all, there are "true" sliders and "sliding attachment" sliders. True sliders have a sliding table that goes right up to the blade. This is what you want. Sliding attachments are basically a sliding wing that adds on to a cabinet saw. I have one of those, and it's almost worthless. It's extremely hard to keep in tune, and you have tons of table between the slider and the blade. You can't do what a real slider does best- and that is ripping straight edges on lumber. I worked at a shop that had a true slider with a 10' sliding table. Oh what a dream. We would buy mahogany by the truckloads and it was all rough sawn. I would use the slider to straighten one edge, then dimension with that edge against the fence. I also would use it to dimension sheet goods. We would buy plywood as big as 5x10' and it was wonderful to use the slider.

I would get a slider with no less than an 8' sliding table unless you ONLY do small stuff, but even if you do small stuff, you're probably going to want to rip a 4x8 sheet longways, or true up the edge of an 8' board before dimensioning. I would personally want 8' or more- preferably 10' for a slider. I would have a cabinet saw to go with the slider for dadoes and small cuts.

Sliders can have scoring blades, and that is great for laminates and fine veneered plywoods, but it's not a necessity.

Keep in mind that they take up a ton of room due to the sliding table, although the table extension usually folds down when not in use.

I hope this feedback is helpful.

[Tom Bain]

You will likely get a range of views on here. Most everyone who has a slider or converted from a conventional table saw (like myself) will sing their praises. There is a non-trivial learning curve to exploit a slider to its full capabilities and I would encourage you do as much research as possible before making the decision. I will also note that many sliders have large footprints and can take up considerably more space in the shop than a conventional cabinet saw.

[Jim Becker]

I was unaware that ShopFox offered a sliding table saw unless it's a cabinet saw with an attached sliding table. These are different than a Euro type slider in that the edge of the sliding portion isn't right at the blade. Grizzly (who makes ShopFox) does make true-sliders, however. There is a different aspect with safety with a true Euro type slider than there is with a cabinet saw that has a sliding table attachment.

I mention this not to be critical of a specific machine; rather, to be sure that we are all on the same page relative to the type of machine you are asking about.

[Ronald Blue]

It's a ShopFox 1811. I'm still on the fence literally if it's the right move for me.
amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1811-10-Inch-Sliding/dp/B004IYJ9WE (https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1811-10-Inch-Sliding/dp/B004IYJ9WE)

[David Kumm]

A short stroke slider of that design has some design issues for both sheet and solid stock. The support arm in the front will always seem to be in your way and a sliding saw should be built stout enough to not need that. If you move the saw in the shop, you will need to adjust the support every time ( unless you go to the exact same spot ) or the table will not travel consistently compared to the fixed table. A short slider generally uses the rip fence to rip long stock like a traditional saw. The table sticking out the front will be awkward. The crosscut fence must be easily removed and more importantly, reinstall at exactly 90 or you will go crazy. I have sliders from 18" to 10' and my favorite sizes are either 39" or 10'. Dave

[Rob Sack]

True sliding table saws are terrific but they are expensive to buy and you have to allow a lot of shop real estate to accommodate the travel of the sliding table, assuming the saw has an 8 ft or larger sliding table. I almost pulled the trigger on one several times, but just couldn't give up the amount of space it would take up. I currently use a Sawstop ICS saw with an Excalibur sliding table. The Excalibur sliding table is now coincidentally manufactured by Sawstop. My interest was being able to crosscut 4 x 8 sheets. I know several manufacturers make a "short slider" that can handle a 48 - 60' crosscut, but I never found one to my liking despite searching at numerous AWFS trade shows. Being able to rip a 4 x 8 (or 4 x 10 depending on the slider) would have been nice, but I get great results using the rip fence. Straight lining solid lumber is also a nice feature, but my 12" jointer with an 8 ft bed solves that problem.

Despite it's appearance, the Excalibur (now Sawstop) sliding table is incredibly accurate and consistently holds its adjustments just fine. Panels come out perfectly square every time. As far as safety is concerned, the only thing safer than a Sawstop table saw is to avoid cutting wood in the first place.

[Mike Wilkins]

I have a short stroke slider and use for everything from sizing plywood panels to solid wood processing. They do play a big part in some commercial shops for breaking down panels for cabinet builds, especially the longer stroke machines. But myself and others on this forum use their machines often for solid wood processing, especially for sizing to length and ripping.
As a side benefit, I feel safer using my slider vs. a standard cabinet saw.

[Mike Kees]

True sliding table saws are terrific but they are expensive to buy and you have to allow a lot of shop real estate to accommodate the travel of the sliding table, assuming the saw has an 8 ft or larger sliding table. I almost pulled the trigger on one several times, but just couldn't give up the amount of space it would take up. I currently use a Sawstop ICS saw with an Excaliber sliding table. The Excaliber sliding table is now coincidentally manufactured by Sawstop. My interest was being able to crosscut 4 x 8 sheets. I know several manufacturers make a "short slider" that can handle a 48 - 60' crosscut, but I never found one to my liking despite searching at numerous AWFS trade shows. Being able to rip a 4 x 8 (or 4 x 10 depending on the slider) would have been nice, but I get great results using the rip fence. Straight lining solid lumber is also a nice feature, but my 12" jointer with an 8 ft bed solves that problem.

Despite it's appearance, the Excaliber (now Sawstop) sliding table is incredibly accurate and consistently holds its adjustments just fine. Panels come out perfectly square every time. As far as safety is concerned, the only thing safer than a Sawstop table saw is to avoid cutting wood in the first place.
If you think that an Excalibur is accurate you need to try out a real slider. It will truly "knock your socks off".

[Ronald Blue]

Thanks for all the input. I thinking I'm going to pass on it. I'd rather put the money into something else. Ironically I have a Craftsman zip code saw that was given to me. It's okay except for a lousy fence. (Yes I'm cheap). I have a slider attachment for it that I haven't gotten around to installing. It's an Excalibur. Maybe if I recover more from Covid I can get some things done. I'm not pushing myself to hard though. One day at a time.

[Jim Becker]

It's a ShopFox 1811. I'm still on the fence literally if it's the right move for me.
amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1811-10-Inch-Sliding/dp/B004IYJ9WE (https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1811-10-Inch-Sliding/dp/B004IYJ9WE)

Ok, that appears to be a ShopFox version of the base Grizzly slider which sells for $3295 plus $175 for freight on sale. And yes, it's a "True slider".

I will say this...I'd NEVER go back to a cabinet saw from a slider. If I have to downsize my saw if we downsize our properly, I'll have another slider that just has a smaller wagon capacity. But it will be a true slider.

[Rob Sack]

If you think that an Excalibur is accurate you need to try out a real slider. It will truly "knock your socks off".

Actually, I have tried a real slider and that's why I make the claim (and my socks are still on). I've cut out whole kitchens on my set up and when checking the diagonals on the panels, using the same tape measure, the difference in the diagonal readings were between 0 and 1/32", which makes the panels at or less than 1/64" out of square, even 2' by 7.5' pantry side panels. To me, that's pretty accurate. I've only used European sliding table saws in the past. How much more accurate do you think they are going to be? Do you think an Asian import slider is going to be more accurate than 0 - 1/64" out of square?

I am not suggesting that one shouldn't buy a dedicated sliding table saw. They are terrific machines, especially if you have the room for an 8 - 10' slider. But for a "short stroke" slider, your choices are limited. When combining the safety and precision of a Sawstop, along with the accuracy of a dedicated sliding table saw at a fraction of the cost and having the support and service from the people at Sawstop made this an easy choice. My set up has seen a lot of use over the years and is as accurate today as it was "out of the box". But as some here have suggested, I guess it depends on your definition of accurate, socks or no socks.

[Warren Lake]

I had two excaliburs the first generation, fine for what they were but poor results. I probably paid less for a used slider than a new Excalibur sliding table.

[eugene thomas]

shop fox slider is basicaly grizzly painted white. needed special part for my grizzly sliding table saw and was on back order for months but got from shop fox in few days.

[Mike Kees]

Rob my experience is the opposite of yours. I had an Excalibur mounted on a Unisaw as my first venture into sliding saws. I had nothing but grief trying to get it adjusted accurate. Once it was there it was very finicky and if it was bumped it got knocked out of alignment. Eventually I took most of a sheet of plywood and drilled holes for the legs then screwed it down to the floor. this helped a lot it now did not get knocked out of alignment daily. The space between the edge of the slider and the blade sucked as well. Step number two was a Minimax Sc2 from somewhere in the 80's. Once I got it cleaned up and adjusted it was a great short stroke slider, a very big step up from the excalibur. Then I sold it and got a Felder K700s. Another big step up. Every step improved my speed, efficiency and accuracy. I work in my shop for a living so those things are important to me . YMMV

[Alex Zeller]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

[Ronald Blue]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

You've pretty much nailed it Alex. I'm pretty ignorant of what all the different ways there are to use a slider. Beyond throwing a sheet of plywood on it and it riding on the sliding table rather than trying to keep it tight against a fence I'm in the dark.

[Rob Sack]

Rob my experience is the opposite of yours. I had an Excalibur mounted on a Unisaw as my first venture into sliding saws. I had nothing but grief trying to get it adjusted accurate. Once it was there it was very finicky and if it was bumped it got knocked out of alignment. Eventually I took most of a sheet of plywood and drilled holes for the legs then screwed it down to the floor. this helped a lot it now did not get knocked out of alignment daily. The space between the edge of the slider and the blade sucked as well. Step number two was a Minimax Sc2 from somewhere in the 80's. Once I got it cleaned up and adjusted it was a great short stroke slider, a very big step up from the excalibur. Then I sold it and got a Felder K700s. Another big step up. Every step improved my speed, efficiency and accuracy. I work in my shop for a living so those things are important to me . YMMV

Actually, my first Excalibur was a very early first generation. In fact, it was the booth demo at AWFS when it was first introduced back when the AWFS was still in Anaheim. That one worked fine as long as you didn't bump it. When I bought my Sawstop ICS, I also purchased a newer generation Excaliber which is must more robust in construction, and that is the one I use today. Since Sawstop took over Excalibur, they have made further improvements to the unit.

All I am saying is that I get consistent results with my Excalibur sliding table on par with a dedicated sliding table saw and I get the safety features of the Sawstop.

[Mike Kreinhop]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

I don't have the experience that Jim Becker or Derek Cohen have with their sliders, but I have never had a problem ripping hardwood lumber on either the sliding wagon or using the standard rip fence. The method I used depended on the condition of the wood. If I needed to create a fresh clean reference edge, I clamped the slab onto the wagon using the end wedge clamp that came with the saw. I positioned the slab on the wagon to ensure I didn't waste a lot of wood to make the cut. After running the slab through the blade, I then locked the slider in place and used the standard rip fence to cut the opposite edge. This usually gave me glue-ready edges, but I could pass the slab over the jointer/planer if I wasn't sure.

So far, I haven't cut any slabs that were longer than the travel of my slider. I would use the bandsaw for longer pieces and then joint the edges.

The minimum width for ripping using the standard fence to the thickness of the push stick. There is a screw in my rip fence rail to restrict the travel too close to the blade and prevent accidental contact. However, the screw can be removed and allow the fence to move so close it will touch the blade.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

Just my take, based on around 15 years (i think???) of owning a slider and using regularly. I don't completely understood the confusion on ripping solid stock, but maybe the following will help somebody.

First, you can lay a board on the carriage with no fence and clamp or hold in place to make a straight line rip. This cut is generally perfectly fine without jointing, however in some boards it releases tension and a second lighter pass is required to make a perfectly straight glue line rip.

Second technique is for ripping stock to width, with a straight edge already on the board. Set your rip fence as you would on a cabinet saw and simply use the carriage as a sliding aid as you push the stock through. You can also lock the carriage and your saw is a just a big cabinet saw during this cut. Use a fence that is long enough to extend behind the blade, like most cabinet saws are set up. This technique is the most common way in my shop to rip something longer than the carriage to width. I have an 8' stroke, so it's not necessary often.

Third technique if for ripping to width without a rip fence. You can use stops on both ends of the board, with it riding on the carriage to rip to width. on my saw I just use the crosscut stops on the forward end of the board, and a ripping jig on the rear. A ripping jig is just another set of stops on a tape or digital scale. You can set both stops the same to have parallel rips, or you can offset to rip tapers. I personally don't use this very often as setting two scales is somewhat tedious and I prefer the next technique.

Fourth, and my favorite ripping technique, is to use a short fence set to the width you want, with the fence pulled towards the operator so it stops before the blade. This is a bump fence. It is there solely to position the stock on the carriage, not to guide the stock past the blade. Slide the stock against the bump fence, push down on the stock or clamp, and the cut gets made with no fence beside the blade. Benefits are that it can be incredibly fast, quick to set up, cut stock is not trapped between a fence and a spinning blade, and the cuts are made off the carriage instead of sliding on the table.

There are others, like Fritz and Franz. This is just what I use most often. Having all the various options definitely lets you use the best technique for a particular cut. There are other benefits, for example a slider is the best possible tenoning jig with a simple jig clamped to the carriage. Because everything is adjustable, you also don't need to compromise to make a cut, just configure for ideal and cut away.

I would change one thing if I had a different slider, I would like more depth of cut, so a bigger blade machine would be handy. Mines a 12", well metric equivalent now.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

There are a few ways I rip using my KF700SP.

With two parallel fences (or one flip stop + one parallel fence) attached to the sliding table, the stock is referenced to the parallel fences then clamped down to the sliding table before ripping using the sliding table. Operator stands on the left side of the sliding table and saw blade.

Using the rip fence like a traditional cabinet saw, except the operator stands to the left of the sliding table, facing the machine side-way (not at the in-feed end of the saw). I often use my left hand to push the existing stock against the fence as it clears the over-head saw guard. Sliding table can be locked or not, depending on preference.

Using the rip fence and the sliding table with stock clamped or held down to the sliding table. If the rip fence has a toe-out dialed in as default, then this is corrected for parallelism to the saw blade before ripping operation. My least used method, though I use this for ripping thin strips.

Ripping rough cut lumber to establish the first straight edge can be done with an edging shoe. Or just clamp the board to the sliding table and rip.

A Fritz and Franz jig, simple to make, aids with ripping small to medium length stock. It keeps the operator's hands away from the blade.

A parallel fence, like the one David Cohen just posted with the Incra fence and extrusion aluminum, helps ripping small stock as well. Sam Blasco has an excellent video about his fence.

There are probably numerous other methods other people employ for ripping on a sliding table saw, but those above are the ones I often use. My other favorite way to rip lumber is using a bandsaw before putting the stock through the planer.

I have not tried this, but if you have a saw-shaper combination machine and a power feeder with a long enough arm, you can rip using the power feeder fitted with wheels that straddle the saw blade.

[Joe Hendershott]

Just my take, based on around 15 years (i think???) of owning a slider and using regularly. I don't completely understood the confusion on ripping solid stock, but maybe the following will help somebody.

First, you can lay a board on the carriage with no fence and clamp or hold in place to make a straight line rip. This cut is generally perfectly fine without jointing, however in some boards it releases tension and a second lighter pass is required to make a perfectly straight glue line rip.

Second technique is for ripping stock to width, with a straight edge already on the board. Set your rip fence as you would on a cabinet saw and simply use the carriage as a sliding aid as you push the stock through. You can also lock the carriage and your saw is a just a big cabinet saw during this cut. Use a fence that is long enough to extend behind the blade, like most cabinet saws are set up. This technique is the most common way in my shop to rip something longer than the carriage to width. I have an 8' stroke, so it's not necessary often.

Third technique if for ripping to width without a rip fence. You can use stops on both ends of the board, with it riding on the carriage to rip to width. on my saw I just use the crosscut stops on the forward end of the board, and a ripping jig on the rear. A ripping jig is just another set of stops on a tape or digital scale. You can set both stops the same to have parallel rips, or you can offset to rip tapers. I personally don't use this very often as setting two scales is somewhat tedious and I prefer the next technique.

Fourth, and my favorite ripping technique, is to use a short fence set to the width you want, with the fence pulled towards the operator so it stops before the blade. This is a bump fence. It is there solely to position the stock on the carriage, not to guide the stock past the blade. Slide the stock against the bump fence, push down on the stock or clamp, and the cut gets made with no fence beside the blade. Benefits are that it can be incredibly fast, quick to set up, cut stock is not trapped between a fence and a spinning blade, and the cuts are made off the carriage instead of sliding on the table.

There are others, like Fritz and Franz. This is just what I use most often. Having all the various options definitely lets you use the best technique for a particular cut. There are other benefits, for example a slider is the best possible tenoning jig with a simple jig clamped to the carriage. Because everything is adjustable, you also don't need to compromise to make a cut, just configure for ideal and cut away.

I would change one thing if I had a different slider, I would like more depth of cut, so a bigger blade machine would be handy. Mines a 12", well metric equivalent now.

Very good, concise description. The fourth method is indeed usually the best.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.


Alex, as far as I am aware, all sliders may also be used as standard cabinet saws by locking down the wagon. On the sliders with long wagons, however, the wagon can extend back quite far, and this gets in the way. The short stroke sliders, that is, with short wagons, such as my Hammer K3 which is 1250mm long (actually 1370mm long) does not suffer this limitation ...

https://i.postimg.cc/L6hNJDzn/Hammer.jpg

There are shorter wagons. I believe the shortest is 800mm.

One does not need anything more fancy than a couple of clamps to hold a rough sawn, live edge board to create a straight side ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece1_html_m1a5762fd.jpg

The reason that the slider can rip a glue line edge so well is that the work piece is held stationary as it moves past the blade. The absence of any movement ensures that the cut line is straight. Even on a great cabinet saw, a board running along a rip fence is subject to movement. Even slight movement will impact on the edge cut.

I use my rip fence for ripping boards too long for the wagon, and I get a superbly straight edge. The reason? I added a JessEm Guides (I have them on the router table as well). This forces the work piece against the rip fence, and minimises any random movement. The result is very, very good .. but not ultimately as good as the slider wagon ...

https://i.postimg.cc/VLGK100n/Y1a.jpg

Regarding widths, one can purchase several sizes of outfeed tables for use in cabinet saw mode. The outfeed on my K3 is 31". This is more than enough for the furniture I build. And to answer your question, I only work with hardwoods, and consider this slider absolutely perfect for this purpose.

The width on the slider wagon is up to you. There are accessories which can take full sheets of ply or MDF. I am not interested in these, and the slider is set up for the typical lengths and widths of the pieces I build. That is the reason why the parallel guide fixture I built is the size it is. Perfect for my needs, but may not suit another ...

https://i.postimg.cc/Zq5K4b8x/9.jpg

I've had the K3 for about 3 or 4 years now. The choice at the time included a Sawstop Professional 3 hp with 35" outfeed and add-on sliding table. The SS is a very fine saw. I plumped for the K3 after using them side-by-side. I have never regretted that decision.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Buehler]

I have that exact saw and I am very happy with it. I also have had a nicer SCM slider years ago and I would not say it is as nice or as capable as the SCM or other euro saw, but for the price and the smaller footprint, it's a great saw. Let me know if you have any other questions about it

[Ronald Blue]

I have that exact saw and I am very happy with it. I also have had a nicer SCM slider years ago and I would not say it is as nice or as capable as the SCM or other euro saw, but for the price and the smaller footprint, it's a great saw. Let me know if you have any other questions about it


Thanks Scott. I told them today that if they have other interested parties to move forward. It's a good buy but not enough so that I can't grab a brand new one relatively painlessly.