Building a Knock Down Shavehorse

[ken hatch]

My old shavehorse is a PITA to travel with. It does not fit in any of the bins of the motorhome unless taken apart and it is really a PITA to take apart and put back together. We leave for a 5 to 6 month trip in the motorhome next June and I really want to have a shavehorse to go with the portable bench. I've found a dead head shavehorse that with a few mods can be made into a knockdown horse.

I've started the build, here is the table glue up:

446412

Most of the horse will be Honey Locust because there was enough in the wood pile and it is a miserable wood to work. Making a shavehorse is a good way to get rid of it.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Looking forward to see the details of the build on this. There is a piece of lumber in the shop that could make a great shave horse.

jtk

[John Keeton]

Great idea, Ken. Elia Bizzarri recently had a blog entry about a knock down shavehorse - http://handtoolwoodworking.com/knock-down-shavehorse/

[ken hatch]

Great idea, Ken. Elia Bizzarri recently had a blog entry about a knock down shavehorse - http://handtoolwoodworking.com/knock-down-shavehorse/


John,

I've been stealing ideas from both Jason and Tim for my build. I think it was Picasso that said "everyone borrows, Artist steal". I'm not sure which side of the divide I'm on but I'm using both the basic design from Tim and the knock ideals from Jason.

ken

[ken hatch]

Looking forward to see the details of the build on this. There is a piece of lumber in the shop that could make a great shave horse.

jtk

Jim,

The build should go quickly, it is pretty simple and the wood has been dimensioned.

ken

[John Keeton]

I built my horse from Tim’s plans and at the time thought about a knock down version, but I have the room in my shop for the stand alone and don’t have the traveling situation you have. I look forward to seeing the finished hybrid!

[Oskar Sedell]

there is also the folding version, as opposed to the knock-down. Did you consider this?

I would love to make a folding (or knock down) shaving horse that gets so flat it can slide in under my Roubo (very small shop).

[ken hatch]

Slow progress is being made on the shavehorse.

Glue up of the rails:

446504

Platform head is mostly finished:

446505

Next up is gluing the other rail to complete the rails and making the front leg and rear legs.

ken

I haven't a clue why the attached third photo is there.

[Phil Mueller]

Even though it’s knock down, it still looks pretty beefy. Looking forward to the updates.

[Jack Frederick]

Looks like you are pretty far down the road, so to speak, but the Boggs Horse might be a good candidate for modification as well. The photo came out of the 12/99/ #139 issue of FWW. I’ve dragged that around and finally built it a couple years ago. The riser stem pops right out and the clamp arm could be made removable as well. Will you be using the receiver hitch for mounting? I don’t have a lot of experience with shaving horses other than my own, but I have found it to be excellent

[ken hatch]

Even though it’s knock down, it still looks pretty beefy. Looking forward to the updates.

Phil,

It is, Honey Locust is really heavy and hard, miserable stuff to work. Something like a shavehorse was about the only way I could get it out of the wood pile other than the fire pit. If, knowing me, when I make another I'll be less interested in getting rid of bad wood and more interested in using a better wood for the project. This time it doesn't matter too much because it is in reality a prototype.

ken

[ken hatch]

Looks like you are pretty far down the road, so to speak, but the Boggs Horse might be a good candidate for modification as well. The photo came out of the 12/99/ #139 issue of FWW. I’ve dragged that around and finally built it a couple years ago. The riser stem pops right out and the clamp arm could be made removable as well. Will you be using the receiver hitch for mounting? I don’t have a lot of experience with shaving horses other than my own, but I have found it to be excellent

Jack,

Your Boggs horse looks nice.

This build is mostly a Tim Manney derived horse with liberal stealing of Jason Gallagher's changes to make it portable. I'm not sure about your "...receiver hitch..." question.

ken

[ken hatch]

The day job is slowing the shavehorse build. The good news is I will be hanging up the navy blazer, white shirt, red tie, and gray slacks for the last time in a couple or three months. BTW, we haven't worn that uniform for a few years but when I first started it was required.

A photo of the front leg install and the platform on the rails:

446651

The seat is off my old horse and will need to be remade. The rear legs are next followed by making the "dead head" and swing arm. If I can find a few free hours the fat lady can start warming up.

ken

[Prashun Patel]

I have been thinking about making a shavehorse for a couple years but have always been put off by Dunbar's "shavehorse invective" where he argues that there are better methods for workholding.

So, from you users who have used them, what say you? I'd actually like to set one up permanently in my yard. But is it useful for anything but drawknifing skinny things down to dimension?

[ken hatch]

I have been thinking about making a shavehorse for a couple years but have always been put off by Dunbar's "shavehorse invective" where he argues that there are better methods for workholding.

So, from you users who have used them, what say you? I'd actually like to set one up permanently in my yard. But is it useful for anything but drawknifing skinny things down to dimension?

Prashun,

Dunbar could be correct and I guess if I wanted to see how I could watch a lot of you tube but instead I'll just enjoy using my horse. There is something enjoyable about sitting on a horse and turning big hunks of wood into smaller shaped pieces. Until I made my first horse I used the vises on my bench, the horse is easier, it may not hold as firmly but it holds well enough and is faster to use.

ken

[ken hatch]

there is also the folding version, as opposed to the knock-down. Did you consider this?

I would love to make a folding (or knock down) shaving horse that gets so flat it can slide in under my Roubo (very small shop).

Oskar,

Not really, for no other reason than a take apart shave would be lighter and easier to make. A few wedges work wonders.

ken

[ken hatch]

The roughed out rear leg on the shavehorse:

446875

Slow progress, mostly because the day job is a little crazy, but whatever it will be finished around the 1st. Things left to finish are installing the swing arm and dumb head, mortises in the platform arm and the rail to hold the wedges, making a new seat, and shaping the rear leg along with general breaking of edges and clean up.

ken

[John Keeton]

Well, there certainly isn't anything fragile about your build!! Looks stout enough for any assigned task or task master.

[ken hatch]

Well, there certainly isn't anything fragile about your build!! Looks stout enough for any assigned task or task master.

John,

LOL, it is a heavy sucker. Broken down each unit is easy to handle.

ken

[Scott Winners]

I have been thinking about making a shavehorse for a couple years but have always been put off by Dunbar's "shavehorse invective" where he argues that there are better methods for workholding.

So, from you users who have used them, what say you? I'd actually like to set one up permanently in my yard. But is it useful for anything but drawknifing skinny things down to dimension?

I built the Boggs style from the plans on the Pop WW site. I built mine to the plans except for using a scrap of ash from the scrapbin for the ratchet stop, and my ratchet teeth are straight grained hard maple. I was going to take mine apart to see if it would fit in an RV underfloor, and I suspect it was among the designs Ken considered before he comitted; but I just haven't had time to take mine apart.

Having a face vise on my bench and a shave horse and a lathe, it depends (to me) on how complex a shape I am making. For a simple round thing like a chair spindle that is too thin to make quickly and safely on my lathe with my limited skill, I have gone to my face vise -rather than move stuff around in my shop to make floor space so I can use the shave horse. For a more complex shape like an axe haft, anything with an oval or elliptical cross section- I move what I have to move so I can make room to use the shave horse.

The shave horse advantage, in my experience, is how fast I can unclamp, reposition and reclamp the workpiece. boom, boom, boom, work, boom boom boom, work. Shaping the grip part of a striking tool handle isn't too bad, but fitting the top end of the haft into the metal head you have is a lot of fiddling.

Can a pro like Chris Schwarz ditch a shave horse and do everything on a lathe or face vise? Sure. When did he last shape a hatchet handle? If I had to downsize and only keep two, I would ditch the shave horse as soon as my existing metal heads were hafted, to keep the face vise and the lathe. If I had to downsize even more, I would keep the face vise and lose the lathe.

If I was going off grid, no electrical service, I would keep the shave horse and face vise, lose the lathe.

Shave horse is a very handy tool. Takes up about as much floor space as a full sized lathe, no electricity, better at ovals. The price is time. You can bang out round stuff on a shaving horse all day, but a lathe would be quicker.

[ken hatch]

The shavehorse build is coming along, the day job (guess I should call it the night job :p) went into the backside of the clock last night and will for the rest of the week and MsBubba's B-Day is next week so progress will be slow.

I'm working on fitting the dumbhead and swing arm.

447156

Once the swing arm and dumbhead are fitted I'll need to shape a treadle, chop a few mortises and made matching wedges to finish it up.

ken

[John Keeton]

It is looking really good, Ken! Too late for this thought, but I wonder if a wedged leg on the front like the one on the back would have a bit more stability and also add to the knock down aspect. Maybe on the next one!!😀

[ken hatch]

It is looking really good, Ken! Too late for this thought, but I wonder if a wedged leg on the front like the one on the back would have a bit more stability and also add to the knock down aspect. Maybe on the next one!!


John,

The front leg is a wedge. My guess is because the horse will be used as much outdoors as in, a three point base will work better. But as I have posted about this horse I expect will be replaced after working on it for awhile and finding where it needs improvement.

ken

[Phil Mueller]

She’s going to love that shavehorse for her birthday. Better get moving, you only have a few days. Good thing it knocks down...much easier to wrap.

[ken hatch]

She’s going to love that shavehorse for her birthday. Better get moving, you only have a few days. Good thing it knocks down...much easier to wrap.

Phil,

LOL, I may be in almost as much trouble with what I got her :p. She has for years, every time we are in Oregon, said she wanted to catch a Salmon to eat. I got her a fly rod outfit to use on this years trip. I'll either be a hero or so deep in the dog house light can't reach. I doubt if there is an in between.

ken

[Stew Denton]

Ken,

Make sure you hire an experienced guide for her.

I think it is also much more likely for her to be successful if she goes on a guided trip trolling for salmon, or something like that, unless she is already an accomplished fly fisherman.

I speak as a long time fly fisherman, fly tier, and have even built one of my fly rods and have components to build more when I get time. I wrote one article for one of the major fly fishing web sites years ago, and had flies I had tied on more than one major site, and had written short articles on tying such. I was one of the major contributors, and listed as such, to the fly tying section of that major site. All I am trying to say is that I know a bit about the subject.

One of the first things I learned about fly casting is that you have to unlearn everything you know about casting any other type of fishing rod....using the technique you use with a spinning rod will immediately cause you trouble...

I used to watch a former world champion bass fisherman on TV, and on one show the guy was fly fishing, maybe for salmon but I don't remember that for sure, in Alaska. He said, people don't know I fly fish (basically because of his TV show on bass fishing) but I love to fly fish. He then added that fly fishing is much more difficult than fishing for bass. He said that technically fly fishing (casting etc.,) is much more difficult, and as far as knowledge is concerned, fly fishing is far more difficult than bass fishing. Remember, I believe this guy was a world champion professional bass fisherman, and he knew exactly what he was talking about. Watching him fly fish made it immediately obvious that he was also a very good fly fisherman.

If she does not have good coaching, unless already an accomplished fly fisherman, there will be a great deal of frustration and also unless she is an experienced fly fisherman her chances of success are very low (I would say almost zero) without a good guide. He will help her with fly casting, etc. Further, salmon size fly rods (I have both an 8 weight, and a 9 weight and the parts needed to build a very high quality 7 weight that I haven't gotten around to building yet) are a pain and difficult to use if you are used to trout size fly rods only. Again, the heavy salmon weight rods are difficult and painful to use. I am not very fond of using my heavy rods, and it isn't because they are poor quality cheap fly rods, they are both very high quality fly rods.

I hope I have not offended you, and you may already be aware of the above, but hope to help keep you out of the dog house. (Again, if she is not an accomplished fly fisherman send her on a boat with a guide trolling or something similar. I think it would give her a much better chance of success, and she would probably enjoy it more.)

I like your shave horse start. I have to laugh a bit though, because it sounds like this one is basically a prototype. What I laugh about is that your prototypes end up better than my final products.

Regards,

Stew

[Michael J Evans]

Ken,

Make sure you hire an experienced guide for her.

I think it is also much more likely for her to be successful if she goes on a guided trip trolling for salmon, or something like that, unless she is already an accomplished fly fisherman.

I speak as a long time fly fisherman, fly tier, and have even built one of my fly rods and have components to build more when I get time. I wrote one article for one of the major fly fishing web sites years ago, and had flies I had tied on more than one major site, and had written short articles on tying such. I was one of the major contributors, and listed as such, to the fly tying section of that major site. All I am trying to say is that I know a bit about the subject.

One of the first things I learned about fly casting is that you have to unlearn everything you know about casting any other type of fishing rod....using the technique you use with a spinning rod will immediately cause you trouble...

I used to watch a former world champion bass fisherman on TV, and on one show the guy was fly fishing, maybe for salmon but I don't remember that for sure, in Alaska. He said, people don't know I fly fish (basically because of his TV show on bass fishing) but I love to fly fish. He then added that fly fishing is much more difficult than fishing for bass. He said that technically fly fishing (casting etc.,) is much more difficult, and as far as knowledge is concerned, fly fishing is far more difficult than bass fishing. Remember, I believe this guy was a world champion professional bass fisherman, and he knew exactly what he was talking about. Watching him fly fish made it immediately obvious that he was also a very good fly fisherman.

If she does not have good coaching, unless already an accomplished fly fisherman, there will be a great deal of frustration and also unless she is an experienced fly fisherman her chances of success are very low (I would say almost zero) without a good guide. He will help her with fly casting, etc. Further, salmon size fly rods (I have both an 8 weight, and a 9 weight and the parts needed to build a very high quality 7 weight that I haven't gotten around to building yet) are a pain and difficult to use if you are used to trout size fly rods only. Again, the heavy salmon weight rods are difficult and painful to use. I am not very fond of using my heavy rods, and it isn't because they are poor quality cheap fly rods, they are both very high quality fly rods.

I hope I have not offended you, and you may already be aware of the above, but hope to help keep you out of the dog house. (Again, if she is not an accomplished fly fisherman send her on a boat with a guide trolling or something similar. I think it would give her a much better chance of success, and she would probably enjoy it more.)

I like your shave horse start. I have to laugh a bit though, because it sounds like this one is basically a prototype. What I laugh about is that your prototypes end up better than my final products.

Regards,

Stew

Hi Stew
Another rod builder here 👋 been about 5 years since I built my last one. Rod building actually kindve got me into woodworking, as I bought a lathe to turn my own cork grips, which led to wood turning, then wanting to make other stuff.

Ken
If I remember right you'll be on the rogue and metolius? The rogue is well known for both salmon and steelhead. The metolius is well known for bull trout. Should be easy to find a guide if you go that route.

[ken hatch]

Ken,

Make sure you hire an experienced guide for her...I hope I have not offended you, and you may already be aware of the above, but hope to help keep you out of the dog house. (Again, if she is not an accomplished fly fisherman send her on a boat with a guide trolling or something similar. I think it would give her a much better chance of success, and she would probably enjoy it more.)

I like your shave horse start. I have to laugh a bit though, because it sounds like this one is basically a prototype. What I laugh about is that your prototypes end up better than my final products.

Regards,

Stew

Stew,

I'm not easy to offend if offered good advice. I plan on hiring a guide for the table, the fly rod is more a symbol but also something to play with while there.

You are too kind but correct in I expect to build another or two. The first build usually has too many mistakes to live with for long and often what seems like a good idea at the time doesn't really work out. A second or third build gives a chance to correct those problems.

ken

[ken hatch]

Hi Stew
Another rod builder here  been about 5 years since I built my last one. Rod building actually kindve got me into woodworking, as I bought a lathe to turn my own cork grips, which led to wood turning, then wanting to make other stuff.

Ken
If I remember right you'll be on the rogue and metolius? The rogue is well known for both salmon and steelhead. The metolius is well known for bull trout. Should be easy to find a guide if you go that route.

Michael,

You are correct, with a month at each she should hit paydirt, if not there is always Fred Myers:p.

ken

[Stew Denton]

Ken,

I think your thoughts on a prototype are good advise for me. I need to think about that when I build my first real bench, which will be a Moravian that can be loaded into our van or a pickup which I plan to get some time after I retire. (Retirement 1st week of March, so I am right there with you on retirement.) The bench will be a portable that I can use for carpentry and woodworking. It will be a while before I will be able to work on building the bench however, as I have knee replacement surgery this afternoon. We leave for the hospital in about 2 or 3 minutes.

Regards,

Stew

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Ken,

The guided salmon trip sounds like a great idea and the fly rod will be an experience. I'm a recovering fly-fishing addict and the addiction led to my day job as a fish ecologist. I'll echo all the above by saying I've published more research papers on salmon than salmon i've caught on a fly rod! Best of luck on the trip (and the 'prototype' looks great).

Best,
Chris

[Curt Putnam]

Phil,

LOL, I may be in almost as much trouble with what I got her :p. She has for years, every time we are in Oregon, said she wanted to catch a Salmon to eat. I got her a fly rod outfit to use on this years trip. I'll either be a hero or so deep in the dog house light can't reach. I doubt if there is an in between.

ken
My wife has the same dream - to catch her own salmon and then eat it within a couple of hours (somebody else fillets it.). I bought her a spinning rig (with which she has no desire to achieve competence.) I'd be dead if I got her a fly rod and expected her to use it.

What kind of woodworking are you expecting to do with the toolkit you can pack along with a motorhome (unless you are also pulling a 40' enclosed trailer.)

[ken hatch]

My wife has the same dream - to catch her own salmon and then eat it within a couple of hours (somebody else fillets it.). I bought her a spinning rig (with which she has no desire to achieve competence.) I'd be dead if I got her a fly rod and expected her to use it.

What kind of woodworking are you expecting to do with the toolkit you can pack along with a motorhome (unless you are also pulling a 40' enclosed trailer.)

Curt,

I expect MsBubba will be the same, the fly rod is more a symbol than anything, the B-Day card will say good for for one guided salmon trip.

I have a portable Moravian workbench built to fit in a side bin . and a Japanese tool box that holds everything needed to build small boxes and the like. Last year the shavehorse was carried in the tow behind Honda Fit. This year the new knock down shavehorse should fit in the same bin with the tool box and the workbench. The woodworking equipment is more to give me something to do and start conversations than to actually make anything.

ken

[ken hatch]

Hi Ken,

The guided salmon trip sounds like a great idea and the fly rod will be an experience. I'm a recovering fly-fishing addict and the addiction led to my day job as a fish ecologist. I'll echo all the above by saying I've published more research papers on salmon than salmon i've caught on a fly rod! Best of luck on the trip (and the 'prototype' looks great).

Best,
Chris


Thanks Chris,

I expect the guided trip is the best hope for a Salmon but hopefully she will enjoy trying to cast. I will enjoy the time trying to teach.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken,

I think your thoughts on a prototype are good advise for me. I need to think about that when I build my first real bench, which will be a Moravian that can be loaded into our van or a pickup which I plan to get some time after I retire. (Retirement 1st week of March, so I am right there with you on retirement.) The bench will be a portable that I can use for carpentry and woodworking. It will be a while before I will be able to work on building the bench however, as I have knee replacement surgery this afternoon. We leave for the hospital in about 2 or 3 minutes.

Regards,

Stew

Stew,

good luck with the knee. It's hell to get old.

ken

[Phil Mueller]

I can only add how amazing salmon can be fresh from the water. I have a friend who does charter Salmon fishing in Lake Michigan. Considering the four hour drive home, the Salmon went from water to grill in about 6 hours. Tastiest Salmon I’ve ever eaten.

[Michael J Evans]

I can only add how amazing salmon can be fresh from the water. I have a friend who does charter Salmon fishing in Lake Michigan. Considering the four hour drive home, the Salmon went from water to grill in about 6 hours. Tastiest Salmon I’ve ever eaten.

We're so far off topic but is there actual salmon in lake Michigan or are they just kokanee? Not familiar with geography in that region. Do to atlanics get into the lake?

[Phil Mueller]

Michael, Lake Michigan was stocked with Atlantic Salmon years ago to help eliminate the invasive species Alewives brought in from container ships. Today, the lake holds Chinook, Coho, and Atlantic Salmon. The problem now is that the program worked so well, that the Alewives population is dwindling and that’s effecting the Salmon population.

[Curt Putnam]

I can only add how amazing salmon can be fresh from the water. I have a friend who does charter Salmon fishing in Lake Michigan. Considering the four hour drive home, the Salmon went from water to grill in about 6 hours. Tastiest Salmon I’ve ever eaten.

On a tuna trip, I once donated a troll fish to the boat. 2 hours later it appeared as sushi and sashimi. About as tasty as it gets. On another trip had a deckhand fry up a fresh caught bonito with mayo and potato ships. Wonderful! To add context, the usual thing done with bonito is to put them up on the roof for a week and then use them for catfish bait.

[Curt Putnam]

Ken
"I have a portable Moravian workbench built to fit in a side bin . and a Japanese tool box that holds everything needed to build small boxes and the like. Last year the shavehorse was carried in the tow behind Honda Fit. This year the new knock down shavehorse should fit in the same bin with the tool box and the workbench. The woodworking equipment is more to give me something to do and start conversations than to actually make anything.

Had another forum acquaintance who used his vacation time (in Maine) collecting driftwood and making spoons & such while his wife was on the beach. An yesm an annual stop at Lie-Nielson was obligatory.

[ken hatch]

Ken
"I have a portable Moravian workbench built to fit in a side bin . and a Japanese tool box that holds everything needed to build small boxes and the like. Last year the shavehorse was carried in the tow behind Honda Fit. This year the new knock down shavehorse should fit in the same bin with the tool box and the workbench. The woodworking equipment is more to give me something to do and start conversations than to actually make anything.

Had another forum acquaintance who used his vacation time (in Maine) collecting driftwood and making spoons & such while his wife was on the beach. An yesm an annual stop at Lie-Nielson was obligatory.

Curt,

Back when I was still flying the line I spent a lot of time in Maine. My co-pilot and I had a regular routine, coffee and cookies on the Camden docks, a drive to the GSD puppy farm for some puppy kisses, then a drop by LN's shop. Back then he had a lot fewer products to view. All that followed by visiting the old hippy used tool dealers store. The next day do it all over again. Those were the day my friend.

ken

[ken hatch]

Work on the shavehorse stopped over xmas week because it is also MsBubba's B-Day week. We spent the week on the AZ-Mexico border "camping" in the motorhome next to a small lake. Today was my first chance for shop time and as expected the Honey Locust bit my butt like I knew it would before finishing the shavehorse. While chopping the mortise for the rear leg wedge a big chunk blew out, the wedged mortise will hold the leg OK but it sure is ugly.

Left to do: fit the treadle to the swing arm, glue and peg the dumb head, cut and shape the swing arm pivot, and clean up and oil the whole thing.

A couple of photos:

447991

447992

447993

ken

[Stew Denton]

Hi Mike, Ken,

Well, it has been hard to keep inspired with the exersizes, but I have made improvement. The most difficult thin is sleeping well at night, because of difficulties breathing...hopefully tonight will go better.

Stew

[ken hatch]

Hi Mike, Ken,

Well, it has been hard to keep inspired with the exersizes, but I have made improvement. The most difficult thin is sleeping well at night, because of difficulties breathing...hopefully tonight will go better.

Stew

Stew,

I hope the knee recovery is going as well as can be expected. I hear the PT is really hard. It is tough to have a bum wheel.

ken

[ken hatch]

.All the parts are made and more or less fitted, still lots of clean up to go but I had to give it a go as is. While the dumbhead is not attached and pegged to the swing arm it holds tenaciously. Once cleaned up this sucker will be a very good shavehorse.

448457

ken