Face frame first process for cabinet?

[stephen wood]

I've got about 6 cabinets under my belt; never built the same way twice. I'm thinking more about process this time.
This will be one bathroom cabinet fitting in between two walls; a span of about 44 inches.

I read last night about making the face frames first. My concern is being able to have the resulting carcass line up exactly with the face frame. If the two don't line up just so then it seems like more work to adapt the carcass to the face frame than the other way around. I use Sketchup so I guess I can work through the details first. Just looking for opinions on this approach.

thanks!

[Lisa Starr]

I'm no expert, but have done several complete kitchens. I build and install the carcases first. Then I create a story stick for each group of cabinets that will share a face frame and make that frame match the story stick.

Since you're only making 1 carcase, you shouldn't need to use that process. Just make the carcase slightly narrower than the space and create the face frame to fit the inside dimensions of the carcase. Leave stock on the outside edges to allow you to scribe them to the wall, as the chances of the walls being dead plumb are iffy.

[Mark Bolton]

If your doing any amount of CAD (sketchup) with accurate drawings, dimensions, stock, and material, sizes it should mean nothing as to which component you build first. We build flush interiors so that is the most critical dimension. Most shops build 1/4" faceframe overhangs so other than shelf dimensions it doesnt matter if the interior come and go a bit and the inteior/exterior overhang allows a mile of fudge factor.

We build boxes and faceframes at the same time to fixed dimensions. If your not drawing in SU with your real world materials and running flush interiors you'll have trouble.

If your doing the drawing you say and using accurate material and space dimension there is really no order to the process other than what works best for your tooling setup at the moment.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

In one of the classes I took at the Marc Adams school I seem to remember that Marc said when he was running a cabinet shop he'd make and assemble the face frames first with shallow dados for the plywood. That made it easy to square the cabinet and size the panels. He said it made assembly faster as well.

Cliff

[Jared Sankovich]

I prefer the order of face frames, then doors and drawer fronts and finally boxes.

[Michael W. Clark]

I prefer the order of face frames, then doors and drawer fronts and finally boxes.

I like this approach too, saves space without all the boxes sitting around.

If you are putting this between two walls, measure the distance between walls at the back and at the outer edge and make your box smaller than that. Make the face frame and scribe to the walls or leave room for a small molding that is scribed and attached after the cabinet is set.

[Dave Sabo]

If you’re not doing inset doors and drawers , why do face frame cabinetry at all ?

[Jim Becker]

If you’re not doing inset doors and drawers , why do face frame cabinetry at all ?

OP doesn't say anything about doors/drawers.
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Stephen, I can see this work being done either way. Historically, I've done the cabinet boxes first and fitted the face frames to them in the shop, but installed the face frames after the boxes were secured in place so any scribing would be done to match the actual wall. Out wet bar cabinet in the media room had to be done that way as did one area in our kitchen where I was filling up a fake fireplace to make it actually usable space. I personally think I would continue to do it that way, but can appreciate face frame first, too. The thing is, that means it's a lot more critical to be dead on with the carcasses as it's slightly more difficult to fit them to the face frame vs the opposite. Subjective thing for sure.

[stephen wood]

If you’re not doing inset doors and drawers , why do face frame cabinetry at all ?
Dave - Fair question. I've asked the boss to tell me what she wants it to look like. it could wind up being a sleek European look. If that's the way I go (no face frame) then how do I get a tight fit against a wall if I don't have excess face frame to scribe?

[stephen wood]

Lots to think about. So grateful to those who share their expertise!

[Justin Rapp]

I just built a vanity, well, it's two 30" cabinets that will make a 60" vanity. I built the face frames first and had planned all the required groves for the box sides/bottom to fit into. Than built the boxes and put it all together. Doors and drawers were last.

[Tom M King]

I don't see where it makes much difference. When I was building cabinets, they were built in the house I was building. I'd build the boxes first, and go put them in place as soon as they were built, then build face frames. If you're going to have one, or the other sitting around, your process will depend on that.

[Justin Rapp]

I don't see where it makes much difference. When I was building cabinets, they were built in the house I was building. I'd build the boxes first, and go put them in place as soon as they were built, then build face frames. If you're going to have one, or the other sitting around, your process will depend on that.

If you run groves in the face frame to improve the joinery to the box, having the face frame built first make fitting the box into the grooves much easier. And if you make a goof on a cut with the box, you mess up so easy to get plywood vs that hand-selected pieced of hardwood used for the face frame.

[Jim Becker]

it could wind up being a sleek European look. If that's the way I go (no face frame) then how do I get a tight fit against a wall if I don't have excess face frame to scribe?

Generally, scribed filler pieces would be used to integrate the cabinet with the surrounding walls.

[Bruce King]

Then to hide the scribed filler piece use scribe molding which is flexible enough to get tight on the wall. If new construction, hold off on the final scribe molding until the Hvac shrinks the wall.

[Jon Grider]

IIR this subject created a pretty long thread a few years back. Bottom line is, whatever works for you. This is similar to the dovetail pins/tails first discussion that pops up sometimes. Both approaches have pros and cons. I build boxes first and then face frames and then scribe ff's where they meet walls, etc. I don't use grooves to align ff's and cabs, just dig out my trusty biscuit joiner for alignment. Fast and easy and have never had a failure at the ply/ff interface. If one wants to spend time cutting dados and rabbets my hats off to them.