Hydraulic Lift Table Question

[Tom Bain]

I recently picked up a hydraulic lift table for moving things around the shop and providing extended support when/where needed. I've never had one of these before and curious if it is common for them to "leak down"? If I have a stack of lumber on it, it will sink overnight. Not sure if that is a defect or not.

[Patrick Kane]

Is this a harbor freight cart? I had a used harbor freight cart that would "leak down" as you describe it. Wasnt ever a critical issue. My Felder FAT 300 doesnt change elevation, and ive left several hundred pounds of lumber on it for prolonged periods.

[Mark Bolton]

Pretty much all hydraulics other than uber high end will leak off at some rate. Quality, age, etc. will affect how much. You can install valves on either end of the lift cylinder if possible to eliminate leakage through the valve body however there is still the high likelihood that there will be leakage by the piston in the cylinder.

People will argue that in a perfect world there should be zero leaking off but its far from the norm.

[Jeff Monson]

I'd guess you have a harbor freight cart? I have a harbor freight motorcycle lift and it bleeds off, poor tolerance's and inefficient seals, but what can you expect for the money?? Every other quality piece of equipment that I own from jacks to tractor hydraulics, none of them bleed off to where I can notice.

[Ted Calver]

Same thing happens to my HF lift. Always wondered if replacing the cylinder with a higher quality one would be worth it.

[Mark Bolton]

jacks to tractor hydraulics, none of them bleed off to where I can notice.

If you've got a low hour/low use tractor maybe so but Ive said it here before. Take a full scoop in the front bucket of an end loader and raise it up 6' in the air and hook your tape on the bucket. I will guarantee you if you cant hear it, its leaking down quietly. Excavators, backhoes, floor jacks, even house jacks, leak off. Its why a jacking crew using hydraulic jacks raising a home or structure crib up the structure if its going to sit for any period of time. You raise the building 12" and leave it sitting on the jacks and in the morning it will be a varied amount less than that because each jack will leak off a different amount based on load and wear. Some may leak back to zero.

Ultra high end hydraulics (cranes and so on)... different game. Load checks, high quality from the get go, uber maintenance.

[Richard Coers]

I'm in the camp that no new equipment should leak down. You have either undersized ram, low quality seals, or a nick in a seal from assembly. Common? Probably. Acceptable in a cheap Chinese table? That's up to you.

[Mark Bolton]

I'm in the camp that no new equipment should leak down

Cant say Ive ever asked, or seen a spec., but it would be interesting to know what something like (what John Deere calls mid-sized) a John Deere 350 (maybe quarter of a million dollar machine?) is spec'd at for acceptable drift over some given period of time. I can only imagine its not zero.

Most any hydraulic application that must have zero drift seems to move away from hydraulics or is dynamically controlled. Seems to me that other than applications that are very lightly loaded or super critical (heavy engineering) there is pretty much no way given the laws of physics to not have drift. Other than a brand new high tolerance cylinder there is simply always going to be some leakage by the internal piston seals even if at some infinitesimal rate. With any amount of use it will increase. Its just the nature of the beast.

Time span between rebuilds would relate to maintenance cost, and how critical the application is. Even in something as crude as raising a structure, if static hold is critical? You dont use hydraulics. Its just the nature of the beast.

[Richard Coers]

Cant say Ive ever asked, or seen a spec., but it would be interesting to know what something like (what John Deere calls mid-sized) a John Deere 350 (maybe quarter of a million dollar machine?) is spec'd at for acceptable drift over some given period of time. I can only imagine its not zero.

Most any hydraulic application that must have zero drift seems to move away from hydraulics or is dynamically controlled. Seems to me that other than applications that are very lightly loaded or super critical (heavy engineering) there is pretty much no way given the laws of physics to not have drift. Other than a brand new high tolerance cylinder there is simply always going to be some leakage by the internal piston seals even if at some infinitesimal rate. With any amount of use it will increase. Its just the nature of the beast.

Time span between rebuilds would relate to maintenance cost, and how critical the application is. Even in something as crude as raising a structure, if static hold is critical? You dont use hydraulics. Its just the nature of the beast.
I learned enough to know better than respond last time.

[Jerry Bruette]

I learned enough to know better than respond last time.

Spit beer on monitor when I read this response.

[Mark Bolton]

Spit beer on monitor when I read this response.
You and me both!!! :p

[Tom Bain]

So, it’s actually a Vestil lift table (not harbor freight) which I thought was a half-way decent brand. Not as expensive as a FELDER/FAT table but more than the harbor freight. The leak down isn’t the end of the world, but it is slightly annoying and disappointing.

[Patrick Kane]

Weird, I’d expect the Vestil to perform very well.

I will measure my cart elevation tonight. It has a 102” by 42” Sapele table top chilling on it, which isn’t a feather.

[Ron Selzer]

I'm in the camp that no new equipment should leak down. You have either undersized ram, low quality seals, or a nick in a seal from assembly. Common? Probably. Acceptable in a cheap Chinese table? That's up to you.

better not get on a farm web site , lots of comments about how equipment leaks down unevenly $200,000, $600,00 as well as $25,000 equipment all listed
John Deere, Case-Ih, New Holland all does it some worse than others

[Rod Sheridan]

I recently picked up a hydraulic lift table for moving things around the shop and providing extended support when/where needed. I've never had one of these before and curious if it is common for them to "leak down"? If I have a stack of lumber on it, it will sink overnight. Not sure if that is a defect or not.

Hi Tom, it’s the get what you pay for syndrome.

I have an inexpensive one as well and it leaks down also.

The commercial ones at work do not, however they’re several times more expensive.

The Felder FAT tables don’t leak down either....Rod.

[Keith Outten]

Cut a short piece of scrap wood, install it per the picture below. It will keep the height at the same level and one pump of the hydraulics will allow you to remove the shim. For very heavy loads put one shim on each side.

446075

[Jay Kepley]

I bought a Northern Tool lift table about a year ago. I haven't experienced any leaking down. I did have a caster go bad, and Northern Tool replaced it. I put an MFT style top on it. It's very useful.446084

[Tom Bain]

Keith -- Yep, that's what I've been doing to hold the table at roughly counter height.

[Gustav Gabor]

Perhaps check the adjustment for the release handle. It may just be a bit tight and keeping a tiny bit of pressure on the release plunger in the cylinder.
My daughter recently bought one (HF 1000lb version) and it had that issue, even though it appeared there was a bit of slack in the cable.
I backed off the adjustment a bit, and now it stays up for days (no nasty jokes now!)
The lift takes a few seconds longer to get to the bottom, but that's actually a good thing since there's better control when lowering heavy items.

[Tom Bain]

Perhaps check the adjustment for the release handle. It may just be a bit tight and keeping a tiny bit of pressure on the release plunger in the cylinder.
My daughter recently bought one (HF 1000lb version) and it had that issue, even though it appeared there was a bit of slack in the cable.
I backed off the adjustment a bit, and now it stays up for days (no nasty jokes now!)
The lift takes a few seconds longer to get to the bottom, but that's actually a good thing since there's better control when lowering heavy items.

Gustav -- I wish mine stayed up for days! :p:D

[Bill Dufour]

Tie a string to that block of wood for easy removal. Maybe drill a hole to hang it. Good idea
Bill D

[Tom Bender]

Let's shift focus for a moment. There are a few hydraulic cylinders in everyone's garage that never leak. They are the brake cylinders in our vehicles. The difference is the machining standards set by the requirements.

[Ben Helmich]

I have the second cheapest one from Harbor Freight. I have never noticed it to leak down but have never really paid that much attention to it. I guess I've never left it loaded before. I will say that dang thing has changed my life, though. Can't imagine life without it.

[Ronald Blue]

As has been mentioned it's all about manufacturing tolerances and the quality of the seals, back up rings, and wipers. There are plenty of places for a cylinder to leak especially a low quality one. But also the control valve, and the pump/piston itself. Keith's suggestion is a good fix and Bill's suggestion of a laynard as well. Safe installation and removal is important as well. We don't rely on hydraulics to hold any load that has the potential to fall. Mechanical lockups are employed for those instances.

[Jim Becker]

It doesn't surprise me that there is settling on any kind of hydraulic lifting setup...it's normal in many cases because of minute leakage and other factors. This is one reason why many lifting devices have mechanical stops/pins that can be used to maintain a fixed height, particularly when loaded, for safety.

[Tom Bain]

In my “dream shop master plan” I had thought about repurposing a motorcycle lift as the base for an adjustable height assembly table (with a torsion box on top). I might need to rethink that plan if all of these devices are prone to leakage.

[Jim Becker]

In my “dream shop master plan” I had thought about repurposing a motorcycle lift as the base for an adjustable height assembly table (with a torsion box on top). I might need to rethink that plan if all of these devices are prone to leakage.
As long as you can pin it to height...which honestly should be a safety requirement for the "normal" application for such things...you'll be fine I would think. That wouldn't likely be inconvenient, either, because most folks with adjustable height work surfaces are not normally moving them up an down constantly. They get set for the major task and you do the work.

[Ben Helmich]

How stable are those things? I’m assuming you would bolt it to the floor. You could do a 3ftx7ft top pretty easily. Maybe a little bigger. No storage space underneath though. I’ve been looking at them too
In my “dream shop master plan” I had thought about repurposing a motorcycle lift as the base for an adjustable height assembly table (with a torsion box on top). I might need to rethink that plan if all of these devices are prone to leakage.

[Mark Bolton]

I'd be very cautious of converting many of the ATV/Motorcycle lifts for shop use. Im sure some are rigid but a lot of the low to mid consumer/commercial use lifts like that will have a lot more slop than any one would want for a shop table. If its merely an assembly or support table thats one thing but if your going to be doing any type of work on the table where you may be hand planing, chiseling, bench work type stuff, that wobble will be miserable. You can search the net or youtube if you havent seen/been around a really nice hydraulic lift table that will handle most all of the standard bench work. They are robust. We dont have the floorspace for them but they sure would be handy.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have a motorcycle lift and am getting real close to doing exactly as Tom describes.

The lift is rock solid, it is pneumatic rather than hydraulic. Mine's rated at 1000lbs, but I've lifted my old 2008 Goldwing on it several times without issue.

It has a mechanical brace that can be set for various heights. When I raise the lift and set the desired height, I bleed the air out.

(Old video of mine, but it still works just as good today.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boSJTq5U0Og
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boSJTq5U0Og

https://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/cedwards/G555/KTM300_003s.jpg

[johnny means]

I'm reminded of an old story about a loan shark who goes out on a job site to collect a debt. The borrower is up on a scissor lift and just refuses to come down. The loan shark frustrated and angry decides to sabotage the lift, so he leans in to cut the hydraulic lines. Our borrower friend ends up not having to pay that debt. I tell this story as a precautionary tale about working in and around machinery that lifts things.

[Ronald Blue]

I'm reminded of an old story about a loan shark who goes out on a job site to collect a debt. The borrower is up on a scissor lift and just refuses to come down. The loan shark frustrated and angry decides to sabotage the lift, so he leans in to cut the hydraulic lines. Our borrower friend ends up not having to pay that debt. I tell this story as a precautionary tale about working in and around machinery that lifts things.

Makes a nice story certainly. While there are things that can be done easily to sabotage they lift they would only disable it's operation. Leaving the person in the lift potentially "stranded" but safe.

[Jay Kepley]

Mike Farrington has a commercial grade lift table that he bought used. He's got a video about an mft-style workbench/assembly table added to the lift table.

[Ed Mitchell]

Ishitani has a video about using a commercial-grade lift table (a Bishamon, IIRC) to make a variable-height workbench
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBX-AtmSFJA

[Ronald Blue]

Interesting video. Definitely a much higher quality lift table than HF. Commercial build and rigidity.

[Tom Bain]

I had seen the Mike Farrington video, and thanks for the Ishitani link (hadn't see that one). I guess a conclusion one might reach is you need to spring for a Bishamon or an Autoquip if you want the table to hold its height without leaking down. Don't know what the used prices are for units like that, but new ones are mega-bucks.

[Carl Crout]

I'd guess you have a harbor freight cart? I have a harbor freight motorcycle lift and it bleeds off, poor tolerance's and inefficient seals, but what can you expect for the money?? Every other quality piece of equipment that I own from jacks to tractor hydraulics, none of them bleed off to where I can notice.

Sure they do. John Deere even has a spec as to how much bleed off is normal

[Ronald Blue]

Sure they do. John Deere even has a spec as to how much bleed off is normal

Agreed. There are cylinders that have pilot operated lock valves on a lot of equipment because they are used for overhead lifting etc. But even the best will eventually leak down.