Fitting Flush Drawers

[tony roth]

Hi All -- I am rapidly approaching completion of my first piece with flush fit drawers. As I read in a FWW article, I built the drawers about 1/32nd wider and taller than my drawer openings. So now i need to plane them down to fit them. As the article didn't go into that part of the process, I would be grateful if anyone could describe the process that they use to fit their slightly oversized flush fit drawers. I started on one yesterday and didn't get too far -- in trying to narrow the drawer, i couldn't even figure out a good (ie, stable) way to clamp the drawer to the work bench so i wouldn't get chatter when i started to plane down the drawer side (i'm sure there is an obvious method that i'm missing). thanks much, t.

[Mark Singer]

Tony,
If they are inset drawers then the bottom needs to fit just above the glide suport elevation. This will creat the gap. Pull the drawer forward so it rests on the wood slides...mark the elevation at both ends , putting down ward pressure on the drawer. Remove the drawer connect the two marks with a pencil line. Put the drawer front in the vise on your bench....if there is not enough lip...clamp it to the bench and plane the bottom. Leave it tight...place the drawer back in the cabinet....and do the same for the 2 sides...centering the drawer on the amount of side "play".....Plane tight in the same maner. Do the same for the top edge leaving it tight. Now the drawer should just slide in wit some force....make sure you can get it out with a pull or from inside the cabinet. Remove and sand or plane the "shinny" spots made by rubbing...then just continue making the fit look correct and precise....a sanding block is real helpful....just go a little at a time and check it

[Bob Smalser]

As I read in a FWW article, I built the drawers about 1/32nd wider and taller than my drawer openings.

Wow...that's some time-wasting advice. A 32nd larger than a tight fit is huge, given the fact you need to trim another 32nd + combined to obtain the necessary seasonal expansion gap.

I make each piece to fit in the opening snugly before even beginning cutting any joints. Then sanding alone usuallly gets me there.

To plane yours down I'd take it to the power jointer set to a fine hair.....do the sides to the gap I liked, then do the bottom and top of the drawer by hand.

[Mark Singer]

If you use the jointer on the sides watch the end grain tear out...back it with a board. The ends may be too short to machine joint also..

[tod evans]

i cheat and use an edge sander.........02 tod

[Mark Singer]

i cheat and use an edge sander.........02 tod

Definetly cheating:eek:

[Bob Smalser]

If you use the jointer on the sides watch the end grain tear out...back it with a board. The ends may be too short to machine joint also..

Nip the end, then run it thru face first. On an ultra fine cut with sharp knives, I don't have any problem with even 8" stock. The only trick is holding it safely, but with drawers, that's not a problem.

Most don't hand hone their jointer knives between grindings. They should.

[tony roth]

thanks guys, sorry for being such a beginner, but i'm not fully following. so the drawers are what i call "flush fit", they have half-blind dovetails in the front and the back and bottom slide into dados cut into the drawer sides. the drawer sides are currently the exact same height as the drawer fronts, which is to say if the drawer is resing on the runners just on the sides (bc they are pulled out), there won't be anything on the front "below" the sides to mark because they are the same height. does that make any sense? of course, at this point, i couldn't even do that because the drawer sides, being the same height as the front, are 1/32nd oversize and will not currently fit the openings. so should i start by planing down the top, around all 4 edges, and if so until what point, until the drawer barely slides in, or until its 1/32nd undersized, for seasonal movement? sorry to be such a blockhead, but thx. tony.

[Mark Singer]

Tony,
I always make the sides an back slightly lower...cause the front is what shows. Sand or plane down the sides so the drawer can be slide in ...then trim the face as needed starting with the bottom...

[tony roth]

hmmm. i hadn't realized that it was possible to make the sides different heights than the front if they (ie, the sides) are attached to the front using half-blind dovetails. i thought in order for the joinery to work, the sides and front had to be the same height. i guess this is not the case. i guess this means that effectively the half-pin on the top (if the top is going to be higher on the front than the sides) will have to be taller than a half pin. does that sound right? having some trouble envisioning how the joint will work.

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/40988956.jpg

We're not talking about a lot of difference between side and front heights in a traditionally-constructed drawer that rides on carcase runners instead of drawer slides. A 16th or so. And you can also see reaching deep in the drawer in traditional construction isn't the problem the drawer slide manufacturers say.

This drawer was fitted to the carcase as seperate parts before any joinery, and still required some planing to fit. Cutting these parts a 32nd over instead of to fit woulda meant a whole lot more planing.

You can lay out pins and tails any way you want them.

[tony roth]

thanks bob for the help (and mark too...). i hate to impose on you any further, but would you possibly mind posting a side shot of the drawer so i can get an idea of how you laid out your pins and tails? thanks much, tony.

[Alan Turner]

The fitting of a flush, inset drawer is a challenge, and you have a good sized one ahead of you. You will need to reduce the width of the sides about a 64th on each side, plus just a little, and fit the front (top and bottom) thereafter. As to the height, you will need a nickel's height, roughly, on the top as it is winter. And, the bottom should be pulled off the drawer divider by a just a bit, so that it does not drag on the drawer divider when it is fully closed. If it does, it may splinter out the divider or drawer bottom, or both. DAMHIKT

The fitting of the front is not too tough, but you have a fair amount of material to remove on the sides. The traditional way to do this is to mount a piece of stiff wood, perhaps plywood, across your bench using clamps, extending out over the other side. Make it just under the width of the drawer, front to back. Place the drawer over the support you have built. Plane the side, front to back, to avoid tearout on the drawer front. Correctly oriented wood on the drawer sides will permit this without tearout. Nick the back to avoid the tearout on the rear pins. Plane it slowly and carefully.

This will be a bunch of work, but is the traditional way to do it. Next time, fit the drawer so that it is a bit of a tough fit when done, and the amount of adjustment is thus far reduced. Drawers are a bit more than a simple box.

[Bob Smalser]

thanks bob for the help (and mark too...). i hate to impose on you any further, but would you possibly mind posting a side shot of the drawer so i can get an idea of how you laid out your pins and tails? thanks much, tony.

'Fraid the wax didn't react well to the Eastern Red Cedar with oak runners and you can't see it very well, but there are only three pins and two tails on that drawer because of the softwood sides.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/36624669.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/36624721.jpg

Here's an oak-sided one with three tails and 4 pins.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/42577855.jpg

I'm not a believer in lots of itty-bitty pins and tails. Not needed.

[tony roth]

thanks everyone! i do think that i've got it now, best tony

[Don Boys]

Rob Cosman has recently release a 2 dvd package describing how he builds piston fit draws. The quality of the dvds are top notch. Lie-Nielson carriers the dvd packarge. I certainly learned a lot from viewing these.

Don

[Philip Edwards]

A DVD that will be of great help is Rob Cosmans latest, Piston Fit Drawers. It covers full construction and fitting-you will love it!
Hope this helps
Phil:)
Edit-whoops, Don beat me to it!

[Mike Wenzloff]

Edit-whoops, Don beat me to it!
But it was still nice of you to make an appearance Phil--hope your holidays were good ones.

Take care, Mike