Inca LS-25 Positioner for SC2 Classic Sliding Saw

[Mike Kreinhop]

The SCM Minimax SC2 Classic is a great saw, but it could be better if I could rip from the slide as well as crosscut. After watching the YouTube videos of Sam Blasco use a positioner on his SCM CU 410, I decided to buy an Incra LS-25 positioner and expand my SC2’s abilities. This thread describes the build and calibration of the positioner in case anyone else is tempted.

Here are the components and some of the tools I used to attach the positioner to my saw. The Incra positioners are available in 17, 25, and 32-inch versions, in both imperial and metric. I chose the 25-inch metric version.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-Fzwg6LX/0/678f4c7d/XL/SC2C-Positioner-1-XL.jpg


1. SCM Auxiliary table. This fits several models of SCM slider saws, and it attaches to the side of the slider wagon in a T-track.

2. Incra LS-25 sub-base.

3. Incra LS-25 rail.

4. 60x30 aluminum extrusion used for the positioner fence.

5. Mounting hardware for the LS-25 sub base.

6. 100mm spacer block for the crosscut fence (explained later)

7. Stop block for item 4.

8. Homemade alignment plates to square the assembled positioner to the slider.

9. 50x3mm aluminum plate used as a spacer for item 4 during assembly.

10. Some of the tools. Not in the photo are the Starrett 386-24 straight edge, 13mm combination wrench, drill motor, 7.5mm drill, and countersink.


Starting with the underside of the auxiliary table, here are the only moving parts. I’ll be removing the spring-loaded handles, as they are a nuisance to me and get in the way of making adjustments.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-xz4h8HP/0/5e2f33d5/L/SC2C-Positioner-2-L.jpg


Here is a detailed description of what the hardware does. There’s nothing in the saw manual describing this (at least that I could find), and there weren’t any instructions with the table. The table height and angle adjustments are done once and ensure the table is the same along any part of the slider wagon. When locked down, these adjustments ensure the table alignment is correct each time it is removed and reattached to the saw.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-pR5kdmf/0/ae220c27/XL/SC2C-Positioner-3-XL.jpg


Here’s another photo from the side of the table that joins the slider.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-z3qPqsZ/0/ddacc493/L/SC2C-Positioner-4-L.jpg


And here is an exciting view of the underside of the table once it is attached to the slider wagon.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-WkZtn9z/0/62e9c351/L/SC2C-Positioner-5-L.jpg


It is important to set the height of the table so it is flush with the surface of the slider bed and also coplanar with the bed. In this photo, the left side of the table is lower than the right. I watch the Starrett straight edge while I slowly turn the adjusting screws to bring the table coplanar. It is easier to start with the left side too high and work it down than to try to raise it. The adjustment process requires a small turn of the two set screws followed by tightening or loosening of the T-track screws.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-82684Tw/0/7ab63b23/L/SC2C-Positioner-6-L.jpg


After a few minutes of small adjustments, the table is level with the slider bed.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-xCzNzRL/0/ca3e177d/L/SC2C-Positioner-7-L.jpg


I positioned the LS-25 on the auxiliary table in about the location I wanted. The maximum ripping width I will use with this is about 500mm. Any more than that, and I will use the crosscut fence to hold the work square to the blade.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-97TKxL9/0/8adad896/L/SC2C-Positioner-8-L.jpg


I put two strips of masking tape on the auxiliary table and marked the location of the mounting holes. I had a good reason for not making the middle holes centered between the other two holes, but by the time I drilled them, I had forgotten why I did that.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-2Th4nth/0/acc5d86c/XL/SC2C-Positioner-9-XL.jpg


The 7.5mm holes are drilled, deburred, and ready to loosely attach the LS-25 sub base.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-dPFhgm5/0/6067f47a/XL/SC2C-Positioner-10-XL.jpg


I did not use the 1/4-20 hardware that came with the LS-25. The bolt heads fit in the channel of the sub base, and they are a loose fit. The hardware I had left over from my MFT-style workbench was perfect.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-qfth2Kw/0/96bae9fe/XL/SC2C-Positioner-11-XL.jpg


The LS-25 positioner is in place, and I can easily achieve rips of 500mm.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-pZR35Vv/0/51c8ad61/XL/SC2C-Positioner-12-XL.jpg

[Mike Kreinhop]

Now it’s time to align the positioner fence to the slider bed. I attached the two alignment plates (item 8 above) to the ends of the fence. Then I slowly pushed the fence and rail so the plates touched the edge of the slider bed. While I was doing this, I was also turning the sub-base slightly to ensure the rail stayed perpindicular to the slider bed. As the plates got closer to the slider bed, I flipped the sub-base lever to the first notch so I could use the micro adjust to dial the fence closer in 0.1mm increments. When both plates were touching the edge of the slider bed, I locked the sub-base lever and slowly tightened each of the four screws holding the base to the auxiliary table.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-7TNvr5f/0/c43a4339/XL/SC2C-Positioner-18-XL.jpg


After checking again that the fence was still square with the slider bed, I released the locking lever on the sub base and and moved the fence so it was just touching the infeed tips of the blade.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-QKFZfsQ/0/e9d29fd0/XL/SC2C-Positioner-19-XL.jpg


Then I locked the sub-base lever and adjusted the scale tapes so they both indicated zero. The image appears to be upside down, but this is how it really looks in use.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-xg6DJQT/0/efea1e40/M/SC2C-Positioner-20-M.jpg


I attached the stop block (item 7 above) to the end of the fence for the next tests and checked for squareness. This is from the top looking down on the stop block. The block was also square to the slider bed.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-GNDpnj6/0/efd988f5/M/SC2C-Positioner-21-M.jpg


I used a piece of scrap to check the positioner settings. The first cut was just to put a clean edge on the board. After this cut, I flipped it over so the fresh cut was touching the fence, and set the distance to 17cm.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-C6QV9Qv/0/286790fb/X2/SC2C-Positioner-22-X2.jpg


The parallax error with my phone camera and my eyes don’t do this photo justice, but the cut is as close to 17cm as I can get it when checking with a 10x loupe.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-BGpRB43/0/ad82932d/L/SC2C-Positioner-23-L.jpg


I made another test cut using the crosscut fence stop block and the positioner stop block. After cutting a clean edge, I ripped this board to 10cm. It was as accurate as the smaller board using only the LS-25 positioner.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-mkMMz5X/0/200c2bf8/X3/SC2C-Positioner-24-X3.jpg


Next, I made another cut on the same board to rip it to 50mm. Here is where I discovered a design flaw the my crosscut stop block (item 6 above). I made this spacer because the crosscut stop block that is part of the saw cannot move closer than about 75mm to the blade. In order to rip smaller items, I need to offset the saw stop block by a known amount. In this case, I chose 100mm. Unfortunately, the T-track hardware of my space runs out of T-track at about the 75mm point. My next version will be a 200mm spacer with the T-track hardware farther from the end of the block so there are two bolts holding it to the crosscut fence.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-kmpnFh4/0/26aabeaf/X2/SC2C-Positioner-25-X2.jpg


Overall, I am very pleased with this addition to my saw. I have some improvements to make, but it is fully functional now and will only get better. I also started on a Fritz and Franz jig this afternoon.

One near-term addition will be fitting some of my Festool ratchet clamps to the T-track in the top of the slider bed so I can secure material for long and close cutting.

[Pat Rice]

Thanks for sharing this Mike, appreciated the photos and detailed explanation.

[Jim Becker]

That's a very good adaptation, Mike! While I typically use my Fritz and Franz jig for this purpose (and I try to do as much of my ripping with the material on the wagon as possible for the superior cut quality) the positioner idea is very interesting. I don't have that auxiliary table with my S215WS, but if I need to downsize my shop in the future, I'll likely move to an SC3 (or SC2) which at least the former comes with that small table in the standard configuration here. So I might leverage this idea, too, at that point. My original parallel jig was kinda sorta similar, albeit low tech and made of plywood, but set up in the same way, I'll add.

[Steve Wurster]

Very nice work, Mike. Will you be removing and reinstalling that auxiliary table each time you go to use the positioner? That is, will it stay permanently mounted to the auxiliary table?

Like Jim, I typically just use my Fritz and Franz jig for ripping on my Hammer K3. However I do own a 17" LS Positioner, and have a way to rig it up in a similar fashion using a shop-made "table" for whenever I have to do a ton of rip cuts. It doesn't connect to an OEM auxiliary table because the table on the K3 is very finicky to install and align, so I haven't moved that since I got it installed. I also don't use the far outrigger-based fence very frequently since I have a small basement shop and only install the outrigger when I need it. I should revisit my mounting solution for the positioner though to see if I can devise something that goes on and off more readily.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Thank you, Pat, Jim, and Steve!

Steve, the auxiliary table is easy to remove and install if the LS rail gets in the way of normal crosscuts. The LS rail slides out of the sub-base, which makes the table easier to handle. Then I loosen the two T-track screws under the table and slide it out for storage. I bought two of the auxiliary tables, one for the positioner and one as additional support for sheet goods.

Once the height and leveling adjustments for each table are locked in, no further adjustments to the table are needed, and it aligns with the slider top ever time. I can change out the two tables in less than a minute. Today I cut some large plywood sheets and had removed the positioner table. Later this afternoon, I needed to cut some strips of 5mm thick HDPE for my MFT-style workbench, so I put the positioner table back on and didn't have to repeat the alignment process. I accurately cut six 61.5mm wide strips of the meter-long HDPE sheet.

[Jim Becker]

Steve, if one doesn't have the small miter fence mounted all the time like I do, removing that entire aux table only takes a few seconds.

[Mike Kreinhop]

I watched one of Sam's videos again and made another change that worked out better than using the entire fence and a stop block. Sam calls it "a point in space", but it is more like a small bump in space. This was made from a some of the two 19mm plywood pieces I glued together to make the other stop block and spacer. It uses the same T-track hardware as the blocks, but the M6 screw is shorter and buried about 15mm into the block, just in case I misjudge horribly and run the block through the saw. The block extends 30mm from the fence surface, so when I cut using it, I add 30mm to the LS-25 tape to account for the offset.

This is the setup I used to cut the 61.5mm wide HDPE strips from the 5mm thick sheet. This is also something I don't think I will ever do again. The saw didn't have any problems with the material, but the dust collection was useless, and the static cling for the little bits made it stick everywhere. I spent about an hour vacuuming up the shop and the inside of the saw.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Woodshop/SC2C-Positioner/i-Gv3RHbw/0/b7080bd2/X2/SC2C-Positioner-26-X2.jpg

[Steve Wurster]

Steve, if one doesn't have the small miter fence mounted all the time like I do, removing that entire aux table only takes a few seconds.

I don't leave the small miter fence mounted all the time because it makes it that much tighter in my basement shop. That being said, my miter fence is actually positioned just a hair in front of the auxiliary table, so in theory I could remove the aux table even if the fence was installed.

However the aux table on the Hammer seems to be a slightly different beast than that on the Minimax. Oh, it has the same 3 concepts: A set of adjustments for height, a set of adjustments for angle / level, and a set of securing bolts. But they're all just finicky on this table. The securing bolts are socket cap style, so I would have to find that Allen key. And you're not supposed to remove them entirely: instead, the side of the table has keyhole-style slots so that you can remove it by just loosening those bolts and lifting the table straight up and then out. But I remember having such a hard time getting this thing aligned the first time that I don't want to mess with it.

Eh, maybe some day I'll try removing it and reinstalling to see if it will go back exactly where it belongs. If so, then I would consider buying a second table for mounting the LS Positioner.

[Jim Becker]

I use the small miter fence constantly, Steve, but I am a little less space constrained than you are. Since I cut down the right side table, I leave the full outrigger on, too.

I'm sure there are a few differences between the SCM/Minimax and Hammer/Felder designs for accessories. I don't know what you have for those setups, but the OEM attachments that go on the side of the wagon for SMC/Minimax, there are two hard blocks that ride in the slots, so once the height and level are dead on with the wagon top, putting them on and off requires zero adjustments other than cranking down the knobs to secure them. The setup that Mike shows up above certainly benefits from that because any induce angle between the wagon and table surface can affect the measurement of the guide to the blade, albeit it will be small.

[Tom Bain]

Mike — Great thread. I’ve seen Sam’s videos as well and it looks like a really nice and versatile set-up. After you use it for a while, let us know how it compares/contrasts with the Fritz and Frantz approach most of us “slider-heads” use.

[Ray Newman]

Very impressive! Makes a good saw even better!

[Steve Wurster]

I use the small miter fence constantly, Steve, but I am a little less space constrained than you are. Since I cut down the right side table, I leave the full outrigger on, too.

I'm sure there are a few differences between the SCM/Minimax and Hammer/Felder designs for accessories. I don't know what you have for those setups, but the OEM attachments that go on the side of the wagon for SMC/Minimax, there are two hard blocks that ride in the slots, so once the height and level are dead on with the wagon top, putting them on and off requires zero adjustments other than cranking down the knobs to secure them. The setup that Mike shows up above certainly benefits from that because any induce angle between the wagon and table surface can affect the measurement of the guide to the blade, albeit it will be small.

I'm gonna semi-hijack this thread from last week to show what the connection looks like for the auxiliary table on my Hammer K3. Sorry for the slightly out-of-focus picture.

Those two larger socket cap bolts are what secure the table to the wagon. As you can see they have keyhole-style slots below them, so in theory you just loosen those bolts and lift up the table, leaving the bolts hanging on the edge of the wagon. There are mating blocks in the T-slot, as you would expect. There are a couple of annoyances to deal with here however. The first is that you basically have to loosen those bolts nearly all the way to remove the table, due to the depth of the height adjustment pins. Multiple times while messing with this I ended up accidentally removing the bolts from their mating blocks entirely. Also, those blocks in the T-slot aren't "full depth", so as you go to remove the table the bolts move around and get caught in the keyhole slots.

The next set of bolts just to the left and right are the ones that control the height of the table. These are really poorly designed. That's not a lock nut you see here; that's just a washer and a regular nut. And that black screw they're holding is NOT a socket cap style. It would make sense if you could put an Allen key into it from this side and then tighten the nut, but that's not the design. Nope, instead the Allen key goes on the other side... hidden within the T-slot! So even if you line up the table completely flat with the wagon and then go to tighten these nuts for future repeatability, they might not tighten because there's nothing preventing the bolt from rotating. Yeah, you could try to put a star-style lock washer on the other side, but that washer would have to be smaller than the already small head on those bolts, otherwise the washer would be up against the edge of the T-slot. Note that the equivalent adjustment pins on the outrigger are not this style; they are much bigger, and have both the Allen key and the nut on the same side. I have no idea why they didn't do an equivalent design here.

Those lower bolts with lock nuts in the far corners are what adjust the angle of the table relative to the wagon. They work just as you would expect, and I have no complaints about them. lol Well, okay, you have to be careful not to move the head when tightening the lock nut, but that's typical for this design.

446199

So against my better judgment the other day I removed this table (after attempting to tighten those alignment pins). When I put it back on it was way out of alignment. So then I spent about 20 minutes trying to realign it before giving up. I went back the next day and got it aligned, and I think those alignment pins are tight now. But right now I'm leaving it as is and don't plan on removing it anytime soon. Ugh.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for posting that, Steve. It's helpful to understand the situation and isn't really off-topic because the idea that the OP posts about is usable regardless of slider brand. On the SCM/Minimax sliders, these accessories attach with those spring-loaded knobs that you can turn in close quarters and the accessory is held in alignment by some captive composite blocks that engage with the tee-slot on the front face of the wagon. I think I'd share your frustration with having to make alignment adjustments every time a support or measuring accessory has to get moved to a different position on the wagon...different cuts often require different setups. Next time you visit, I'll try to remember to show you how my machine is configured...perhaps you can then make some changes to your auxiliary table fastening setup to make it more easily moveable.

[Steve Wurster]

Thanks for posting that, Steve. It's helpful to understand the situation and isn't really off-topic because the idea that the OP posts about is usable regardless of slider brand. On the SCM/Minimax sliders, these accessories attach with those spring-loaded knobs that you can turn in close quarters and the accessory is held in alignment by some captive composite blocks that engage with the tee-slot on the front face of the wagon. I think I'd share your frustration with having to make alignment adjustments every time a support or measuring accessory has to get moved to a different position on the wagon...different cuts often require different setups. Next time you visit, I'll try to remember to show you how my machine is configured...perhaps you can then make some changes to your auxiliary table fastening setup to make it more easily moveable.

Before I got the saw I read a few comments here and there about people having trouble with this auxiliary table and that they simply don't move it or remove it after getting it setup the first time. I know Marius Hornberger of YouTube fame has the small K3 and hangs his table up when not in use, but I've never seen a video of him dealing with installing or removing the table.

At the very minimum, I would like to be able to replace the position adjusting bolts with ones that are smooth on the wagon side and threaded on the table side, but with a hex head embedded in the end of that threaded side, similar to how the outrigger is done. That would allow for better setup. And of course some way to make the actual securing bolts stay completely horizontal when not in use. I can probably rig that up with just a piece of wood in the T-slot with threaded openings, assuming I have the proper tap on hand. In the meantime though, I'm just leaving the table where it is. lol

[Jim Becker]

Not moving it sounds like a sound practice for the moment as long as it's in a spot that doesn't generally get in your way and poke you in the kidneys right during an important cut. :) :D

[Steve Wurster]

Not moving it sounds like a sound practice for the moment as long as it's in a spot that doesn't generally get in your way and poke you in the kidneys right during an important cut. :) :D

No, I haven't had that happen! I'm used to it being there at this point. Now, the miter fence, that's a different story. That I would love to just leave on there 99% of the time, but that sticks out too far for my shop and I've run into that a handful of times. So that hangs on the wall when not in use.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Before I got the saw I read a few comments here and there about people having trouble with this auxiliary table and that they simply don't move it or remove it after getting it setup the first time. I know Marius Hornberger of YouTube fame has the small K3 and hangs his table up when not in use, but I've never seen a video of him dealing with installing or removing the table.

At the very minimum, I would like to be able to replace the position adjusting bolts with ones that are smooth on the wagon side and threaded on the table side, but with a hex head embedded in the end of that threaded side, similar to how the outrigger is done. That would allow for better setup. And of course some way to make the actual securing bolts stay completely horizontal when not in use. I can probably rig that up with just a piece of wood in the T-slot with threaded openings, assuming I have the proper tap on hand. In the meantime though, I'm just leaving the table where it is. lol

Steve,

In Sam's video below, he removes the positioner from the table. I had considered this method, but since the tables are inexpensive, easy to attach and remove, and retain alignment, I decided to permanently attach the positioner and make the table removable. If my saw had a table as difficult to remove as the K3, I would have used Sam's method.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8mPBm2VdY

[Jim Becker]

but since the tables are inexpensive,


Maybe in your geography...not here in North America! If it wasn't bundled with the machine, it's a lot of shekels to acquire any of these accessories. My S315WS didn't come with the small aux table and while I don't recall what the cost was to obtain it after the fact, it was, um...pricy. :) So I built one for my original parallel jig out of plywood, since retired in favor of just using my Fritz and Franz for now.

[Steve Wurster]

Steve,

In Sam's video below, he removes the positioner from the table. I had considered this method, but since the tables are inexpensive, easy to attach and remove, and retain alignment, I decided to permanently attach the positioner and make the table removable. If my saw had a table as difficult to remove as the K3, I would have used Sam's method.

I've seen that video, and actually emailed Sam about it; he was nice enough to reply pretty quickly, in fact! I had thought about going this route and attempting to drill holes in the table. The design of the table didn't seem to me to be very amenable to this method however. That is, with the way the LS Positioner gets connected via "upside down" T-slots, I wasn't sure I could easily and readily reattach it each time. I wondered if Kipp levers or something under the table would work, but there's not much space under that table to begin with.

The table for the K3 is $114 at the moment. Too expensive for me to want to buy another one unless I knew for sure that I would love this method more than just using my F&F. But given how much of a pain that table is to remove, align, and reattach, I just went with a simple plywood-based "frame" that hangs off the T-slot, and my positioner sits on top of that. It works well enough, although I'll admit I don't even use this all that often.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Maybe in your geography...not here in North America! If it wasn't bundled with the machine, it's a lot of shekels to acquire any of these accessories. My S315WS didn't come with the small aux table and while I don't recall what the cost was to obtain it after the fact, it was, um...pricy. :) So I built one for my original parallel jig out of plywood, since retired in favor of just using my Fritz and Franz for now.

I'd have to dig out my receipts, but I think I paid about €80 for each table. Of course, expensive is relative, but when compared to the cost of purchasing and shipping the LS-25 to me, the table was a bargain.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, just the dado insert for my saw sells for something like $300 for here. We're talking a piece of aluminum about 20" long and 2" wide and not all that thick. :) I wish I could remember what the small aux cable cost but it way north of the equivalent of 80 Euros for sure! I hear you on the shipping costs for stuff that's not normally available in your region, having bought a few things from the UK from time to time.

[Ron Boulton]

Does anyone know whether the SC2 auxiliary table will fit or can be modified to fit the Hammer K3. It looks a much nicer table but the height of the t slot from the top of the slider may be different
Ron

[Don Peters]

Before I got the saw I read a few comments here and there about people having trouble with this auxiliary table and that they simply don't move it or remove it after getting it setup the first time. I know Marius Hornberger of YouTube fame has the small K3 and hangs his table up when not in use, but I've never seen a video of him dealing with installing or removing the table.

At the very minimum, I would like to be able to replace the position adjusting bolts with ones that are smooth on the wagon side and threaded on the table side, but with a hex head embedded in the end of that threaded side, similar to how the outrigger is done. That would allow for better setup. And of course some way to make the actual securing bolts stay completely horizontal when not in use. I can probably rig that up with just a piece of wood in the T-slot with threaded openings, assuming I have the proper tap on hand. In the meantime though, I'm just leaving the table where it is. lol

Steve's right; the OEM mounting system for the K3 auxiliary table is a PITA to mount and remove. The issue is that there's just too many fastener bits to deal with all at once when reattaching the table.

Here's my fix: Use Nylock nuts for the adjusting fasteners; the hex bolt heads bear against the slider, and the Nylocks secure them from the inside of the table. Set 'em once and you're done forever. Then it's pretty easy to do the mod using a piece of 3/8 x 3/4 aluminum bar stock and a couple of 5/16-18 Kip fasteners. Clearance drill the table for the Kip studs; then drill and tap the aluminum bar. I remove the Kip levers from their "nuts" so its easy to hand tighten the splined nuts and then cinch them up the last turn with a lever. This setup is totally repeatable and takes about a minute to remove or replace. All the bits are always assembled together in one package that slides into the slider from one end so there's no faffing around with loose parts.
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[Steve Wurster]

Steve's right; the OEM mounting system for the K3 auxiliary table is a PITA to mount and remove. The issue is that there's just too many fastener bits to deal with all at once when reattaching the table.

Here's my fix: Use Nylock nuts for the adjusting fasteners; the hex bolt heads bear against the slider, and the Nylocks secure them from the inside of the table. Set 'em once and you're done forever. Then it's pretty easy to do the mod using a piece of 3/8 x 3/4 aluminum bar stock and a couple of 5/16-18 Kip fasteners. Clearance drill the table for the Kip studs; then drill and tap the aluminum bar. I remove the Kip levers from their "nuts" so its easy to hand tighten the splined nuts and then cinch them up the last turn with a lever. This setup is totally repeatable and takes about a minute to remove or replace. All the bits are always assembled together in one package that slides into the slider from one end so there's no faffing around with loose parts.

Nice solution Don. I wondered if there was some "easy" way to just use a solid bar inside the T-slot like that, but never bothered to try to do it with that auxiliary table. The only "difficult" part is drilling those holes in the right spot so everything lines up correctly, but that should be doable without too much effort. Of course the annoying part becomes having to slide that thing in and out from the far end of the wagon each time you want to use it, but that might be the price to pay for repeatability like this.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Steve's right; the OEM mounting system for the K3 auxiliary table is a PITA to mount and remove. The issue is that there's just too many fastener bits to deal with all at once when reattaching the table.

Here's my fix: Use Nylock nuts for the adjusting fasteners; the hex bolt heads bear against the slider, and the Nylocks secure them from the inside of the table. Set 'em once and you're done forever. Then it's pretty easy to do the mod using a piece of 3/8 x 3/4 aluminum bar stock and a couple of 5/16-18 Kip fasteners. Clearance drill the table for the Kip studs; then drill and tap the aluminum bar. I remove the Kip levers from their "nuts" so its easy to hand tighten the splined nuts and then cinch them up the last turn with a lever. This setup is totally repeatable and takes about a minute to remove or replace. All the bits are always assembled together in one package that slides into the slider from one end so there's no faffing around with loose parts.
446737446738

Nice solution Don! From the first image, it looks like you have room in the slotted holes between the Kip lever nuts and the edge of the table to add a short standoff to ride in the T-track and set the height. Maybe a two hex head bolts and nylon lock washers will work as long as the heads of the bolts don't extend through the T-track and interfere with the aluminum bar.

[Erik Loza]

Does anyone know whether the SC2 auxiliary table will fit or can be modified to fit the Hammer K3. It looks a much nicer table but the height of the t slot from the top of the slider may be different
Ron


I'm almost certain it won't work, due to the reason you mentioned. This is the comparable OEM piece for Hammer sliders, by the way: https://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Sawing/Accessories/Additional-support/Table-Extends.html

Hope this helps,

Erik

[Don Peters]

Yes, it has to slide in from the far end. That only takes the first 10 seconds, again because you're not trying to align a bunch of individual fasteners and slots. Mine is configured so that the fasteners that secure the flat bar are at the correct height to place the top of the auxiliary table generally coplanar with the top of the slider. Be aware that the table is just a fairly crude fabrication. A straight edge will quickly disclose that the dimensions and accuracy vary from corner to corner. So as long as the table top doesn't end up higher than the slider, you're okay. Don't overthink it.

I used 5/16 fasteners passing through 5/16ø holes. The track slot is 3/8, so there's a tiny bit of wiggle room. I haven't seen any need for locator pins, etc. Measure carefully, center punch and use sharp twist drills and a sharp tap. Use cutting oil for the holes in the table and tallow for the aluminum. It isn't rocket science. The steel in the table is just unhardened mild steel, so you could file the clearance holes if you're off slightly. If you totally screw it up, move the holes and do it over.

[Jim Becker]

Done, those are similar fasteners that SCM/Minimax uses for accessories. Very convenient!

[Mike Kreinhop]

Nice solution Don. I wondered if there was some "easy" way to just use a solid bar inside the T-slot like that, but never bothered to try to do it with that auxiliary table. The only "difficult" part is drilling those holes in the right spot so everything lines up correctly, but that should be doable without too much effort. Of course the annoying part becomes having to slide that thing in and out from the far end of the wagon each time you want to use it, but that might be the price to pay for repeatability like this.

I realize this thread is nearly a year old, but here is a video by Marius Hornberger with his solution for the K3 auxiliary table. I think his solution makes adding and removing the table easier than the Minimax, and I might adopt his method for the clamps. Skip to 21:45 for the segment about the table modification.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJDXP2in08s

My update: Since adding the LS positioner to my saw, I haven't needed or used the rip fence. I still haven't built a F&F jig, but it is on my list of things to do after I finish my shop expansion.

[Dave Cav]

Here's my setup. Since I used the longer LS positioner I had to extend the aux table a bit. I may do a cleaner install later but it works fine now. I also put a Proscale setup on the crosscut fence and really like it. I have a Powermatic 65 snugged up against the rear of the saw, with a SS C.I. router table in the left wing, and a LS positioner for the router table as well. The router table L.S. positioner was originally on the slider, but then later I got the longer model. It only took nine months for it to arrive.


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[Chris Parks]

Here's my setup. Since I used the longer LS positioner I had to extend the aux table a bit. I may do a cleaner install later but it works fine now. I also put a Proscale setup on the crosscut fence and really like it. I have a Powermatic 65 snugged up against the rear of the saw, with a SS C.I. router table in the left wing, and a LS positioner for the router table as well. The router table L.S. positioner was originally on the slider, but then later I got the longer model. It only took nine months for it to arrive.




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Has anyone fitted a DRO to the K3 Hammer outrigger cross cut fence.

[Kendall Scheier]

That is great Mike! I actually have this on my list to make identical to how you describe (minus the aluminum extrusion fence…). I’m really glad that it worked out so well for you. I recently picked up an inexpensive LS positioner off of CL for this express purpose. I have my fritz and frans jigs that work great for ripping but this will come in handy for longer cuts with the benefit of only having to move one piece to set the measurement in place of both fritz and frans jigs.

Thanks for the detailed process with pictures.

[Kendall Scheier]

My quote for the aux table with corresponding hardware came in at over $600 USD when I ordered my SC4 last year. I decided one table was fine enough…

[Thomas Crawford]

I'm looking at building this for my Hammer K3, this thread is gold. I'm wondering what to use for the fence at the end of the positioner, looking through the Incra site I don't really see anything obvious to use. I see a lot of extruded aluminum options online but wanted to make sure I got something that could be flat to the sliding table for very thin stock (making sure nothing can slide under it).

[Dave Cav]

To update my response upthread, I have replaced my LS parallel positioner setup with a prototype Proscale DRO setup. I worked with one of the engineers at Proscale to use a couple of different parts of their product line and came up with this:

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I also added a tape and cursor for quick adjustments and to double check the DRO in case of a low battery, etc:

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It works great and if anyone is interested I'll dig up the information from Proscale.

[Chris Parks]

Has anyone fitted a DRO to the K3 Hammer outrigger cross cut fence.

A good thread dredge. Since my question I have managed to fit a DRO to the cross cut fence on my K3. There is a very good thread on the Felder forum showing a lot of very good methods of adding cheap and accurate DRO's to cross cut fences on Felder/Hammer sliders and anyone interested should take a look. The DRO's available from Chinese sources these days are under $100 and can be fitted to any machine with a bit of ingenuity.

[Derek Cohen]

I will add three articles I wrote which link with Mike's thread.

The first is a cheaper alternative to the Incra: https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/ParallelGuideMk3HammerK3.html

This parallel guide can slide and be positioned anywhere along the wagon ...

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/ParallelGuideMk3HammerK3_html_4eb83857.jpg

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/ParallelGuideMk3HammerK3_html_m48e84353.jpg

The second is a manual (not DRO) micro adjuster to the cross cut fence (the scale is plenty accurate enough for woodworking!):

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/CrosscutFenceMicroAdjust2.html

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/CrosscutFenceMicroAdjust2_html_69af4ff2.jpg

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/CrosscutFenceMicroAdjust2_html_m2c7dfdb0.jpg


Thirdly, do not forget a zero clearance insert for the CC fence: https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/CrosscutFenceZeroClearance2.html

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/CrosscutFenceZeroClearance2_html_m7d7e0fa3.jpg

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/CrosscutFenceZeroClearance2_html_m364a3028.jpg


There are other K3 articles on this Index page: https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Thomas Crawford]

Looked around a little more last night and found this:
https://lambtoolworks.com/parallel-fences

Obviously very well made but I think I can DIY for way less than $1300

@Dave I'd be interested in the Proscale solution

I have the 48" slider with no outrigger. So I'm thinking if I can maybe get a DRO on the crosscut fence at the bottom with a flip stop and a DRO on the hammer auxiliary table extension without a big fence that might be the best solution.

[Thomas Crawford]

My other question would be if ultimately it would be better to have two parallel rails and not try to use the flip stop at the bottom of the sliding table at all.