Pat Wright
11-24-2020, 12:27 PM
Hello,
I'm in the final stages of a kitchen cabinet build, and would like some input on integrated end panels for paint grade work. I have all boxes, face frames, and end panels built.
On these cabinets, I'm shooting for no reveal between the face frame and end panels. Both are 3/4" thick hard maple. While originally I was going to butt the end panel into the back of the face frame, I realize that differential expansion between the edge grain of face frame and face grain of end panel will likely result in a hairline crack in the finish over time, or at least telegraph through the finish, and I just can't bring myself to do it.
I've searched here and read many threads on the issue of long miters, and have some experience with them on stain grade work (like on newel posts) using my lock miter bit. But in this case my parts are already assembled into face frames/end panels, and I can't imagine how I'd keep the parts perfectly against the fence, especially vertically, to use the lock miter method which requires such precision in setup and milling. It seems a 45 miter with spline could be appropriate, and I made up a test joint last night using a hardboard spline which worked out pretty well. Yes, I know I should have figured this out in advance, but really want to avoid re-building these face frames and end panels. The end panels were built 1.25" oversize on width (1/2" scribe on wall side, and 3/4" was going to be ripped off face frame side for butt joint but I haven't done that yet), so they would still work with a miter joint.
So, my questions:
Splined miter OK in this situation, using 1/8" hardboard spline? I typically keep the spline about 1/8" from the heel of the joint, but then that leaves a much larger area at the toe which is just glued compared to the lock miter. Will I need to worry about the toe joint opening up? Seems if I burnish the sharp edge then sand a small radius, the glue line is almost invisible.
I'm having some issues getting a long, perfect 45 on the table saw in this hard maple. I've tried hogging out most of the cut with a think kerf rip, then using my full kerf glue line rip for final sizing, which seems to work OK. I think I'm getting some deflection in my insert with downward pressure, as I don't have a stiff zero clearance insert setup for 45 deg cuts (though I could make one I guess). Any suggestions? Longest piece is 37" for upper cabinets.
I don't currently have a large enough 45 deg chamfer bit for my router table but had thought maybe this would be easier to get a precise 45? I could cut 95% of the miter material away on the table saw which wouldn't require absolute precision, then just use the router table for final cleanup. Any thoughts? I'm not at all opposed to spending the $80 on the bit, but not sure if it'd be easier. I had planned to double sided tape a guide board on the top, so that it protects the knife edge against the outfeed side of the fence allowing me to put enough sideways pressure on it. I've done this with great success on lock miters.
Finally, should I just attempt the lock miter? I could run the face frame flat on the table, then run the panels vertically. Still makes me nervous... and I didn't take as much care in keeping the stock as precise in thickness as I would if I planned this method from the outset. Just for example, some of the face frames may be .755" thickness, while the end panel may be .740" or something. If I had planned this from the beginning I would have used stock from the same milling session for the joints that are lock mitered. Furthermore, I wouldn't be able to get any test cuts with the actual stock, and while I can usually get the bit set up pretty quickly I know how bad an ill fitting lock miter can look. Seems risky.
Any other ideas? I have a fairly well equipped shop (2HP cabinet saw, 6" jointer w/ helical head, 2-1/4 hp table mounted router, track saw).
Would appreciate any input you have. Been reading these forums for a long time and have gotten some great ideas, but I feel stuck here on this big project. So close to being done, yet this one remaining issue to solve!
Thanks,
Pat
I'm in the final stages of a kitchen cabinet build, and would like some input on integrated end panels for paint grade work. I have all boxes, face frames, and end panels built.
On these cabinets, I'm shooting for no reveal between the face frame and end panels. Both are 3/4" thick hard maple. While originally I was going to butt the end panel into the back of the face frame, I realize that differential expansion between the edge grain of face frame and face grain of end panel will likely result in a hairline crack in the finish over time, or at least telegraph through the finish, and I just can't bring myself to do it.
I've searched here and read many threads on the issue of long miters, and have some experience with them on stain grade work (like on newel posts) using my lock miter bit. But in this case my parts are already assembled into face frames/end panels, and I can't imagine how I'd keep the parts perfectly against the fence, especially vertically, to use the lock miter method which requires such precision in setup and milling. It seems a 45 miter with spline could be appropriate, and I made up a test joint last night using a hardboard spline which worked out pretty well. Yes, I know I should have figured this out in advance, but really want to avoid re-building these face frames and end panels. The end panels were built 1.25" oversize on width (1/2" scribe on wall side, and 3/4" was going to be ripped off face frame side for butt joint but I haven't done that yet), so they would still work with a miter joint.
So, my questions:
Splined miter OK in this situation, using 1/8" hardboard spline? I typically keep the spline about 1/8" from the heel of the joint, but then that leaves a much larger area at the toe which is just glued compared to the lock miter. Will I need to worry about the toe joint opening up? Seems if I burnish the sharp edge then sand a small radius, the glue line is almost invisible.
I'm having some issues getting a long, perfect 45 on the table saw in this hard maple. I've tried hogging out most of the cut with a think kerf rip, then using my full kerf glue line rip for final sizing, which seems to work OK. I think I'm getting some deflection in my insert with downward pressure, as I don't have a stiff zero clearance insert setup for 45 deg cuts (though I could make one I guess). Any suggestions? Longest piece is 37" for upper cabinets.
I don't currently have a large enough 45 deg chamfer bit for my router table but had thought maybe this would be easier to get a precise 45? I could cut 95% of the miter material away on the table saw which wouldn't require absolute precision, then just use the router table for final cleanup. Any thoughts? I'm not at all opposed to spending the $80 on the bit, but not sure if it'd be easier. I had planned to double sided tape a guide board on the top, so that it protects the knife edge against the outfeed side of the fence allowing me to put enough sideways pressure on it. I've done this with great success on lock miters.
Finally, should I just attempt the lock miter? I could run the face frame flat on the table, then run the panels vertically. Still makes me nervous... and I didn't take as much care in keeping the stock as precise in thickness as I would if I planned this method from the outset. Just for example, some of the face frames may be .755" thickness, while the end panel may be .740" or something. If I had planned this from the beginning I would have used stock from the same milling session for the joints that are lock mitered. Furthermore, I wouldn't be able to get any test cuts with the actual stock, and while I can usually get the bit set up pretty quickly I know how bad an ill fitting lock miter can look. Seems risky.
Any other ideas? I have a fairly well equipped shop (2HP cabinet saw, 6" jointer w/ helical head, 2-1/4 hp table mounted router, track saw).
Would appreciate any input you have. Been reading these forums for a long time and have gotten some great ideas, but I feel stuck here on this big project. So close to being done, yet this one remaining issue to solve!
Thanks,
Pat