Hollow chisel mortiser

[Alex Zeller]

How many of you use one? For some reason I've always wanted one. If I did get one it would be a floor standing model like one of the Grizzly models or the Powermatic 719T. I'm slowly migrating towards making furniture and can envision using mortise and tenons to attach legs to a chair seat as well as other parts that aren't round. Is there any reason why you couldn't use it to drill holes? Just install a bit without the chisel? I already have a drill press but it serves double duty for wood and metal. Even though I have a wood platform I place on top of the metal table it still seams like my hands get oil on them forcing me to stop and clean my hands. It seams like the adjustable table on a mortiser would work well align the work to the bit. The speed might be a little fast for a larger bit but I'm not sure how much larger than a cabinet hinge I would need to bore and if needed I still would have my DP. Grizzly has their second to the top of their line mortiser on sale which got me into thinking about it again. How many of you really use them?

[Jim Dwight]

I have a Jet benchtop mortiser but I don't use it. I got a domino and I like it a lot better. One issue with my mortiser is it lacks a clamp to hold the work. When I go to remove the chisel after the first cut, especially the 1/2 inch one (its largest), it is a struggle to get it out. I clamp the work down to the table and have tried a little wax on the chisel but it is still not a smooth or simple cut to make. Smaller chisels work better. Another issue is getting the drill bit aligned so it does not rub and heat up. I had that issue more often with the little 1/4 inch bit/chisel. Lastly, the mortises it makes are not nearly as smooth as you get from a router or the domino. That is the least significant but if you are making a through mortise it could be a bigger deal. I do not think the roughness is enough to affect joint strength, it just doesn't look the nicest.

A floor standing model with a good clamp for the work plus presumably more leverage should help a lot, at least with 1/2 inch chisels. But if it takes bigger ones you could still have the issue. I do not have space for a floor standing mortiser. That is another thing I really like about the domino, it takes up no floor space and not much space. I have the XL so I can do 2 3/4 deep mortises. The biggest bit is 14mm but you can plunge it from both sides to make wider mortises. I haven't needed wider but I like longer more traditional mortises and I do that a lot. I have to make the tenons but that is what I mostly do anyway. I made some 6 inch long by 14mm mortises for a crib, for instance.

[Ed Aumiller]

Do not think it would work very well as a drill press...
When I was making furniture, it was nice to have.
For my limited use it was a luxury but not needed...
It is so easy to make mortises with just a drill press and square it up with a chisel.

You may consider just getting a mortise attachment for your drill press... they work very well.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I bought the Powermatic 719T for a large Plantation Shutter project. As my shutters were large, I decided to use mortise and tenons, most with 3 mortises on each stile, which resulted in about 180 mortises.

The PM719T made this a breeze, accurate and easily repeatable.

The PM719 has quite a small footprint, so I roll it away for storage.

I've used it for a couple of other small projects, but it doesn't get used that often as I also have a Festool domino.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIJWNBAUtyk

It's one of those tools I will not use frequently, but when I do it works perfectly.

[jerry cousins]

i have a general floor model. Although i don't use it very frequently when i am doing mortise & tenon joints it is great to have. once it is set up the mortises are spot on, quick, and easy to get done.
jerry

[Alex Zeller]

One of the reasons I was looking at the floor models was for the extra features (tilting, XY table, better clamping, adjustable stops, hold down clamps) and for more rigidity. I've read up on sticking with Japanese chisels and even then sharpening them. I've found myself to be more of the using a machine type of person. For example I doubt I'll ever make a dovetail by hand. I get the satisfaction those who do it I'm sure get but for me I'll stick with a Leigh dovetail jig. The same goes for using a chisel to square up a hole. I'll do it but I would rather have a machine that I can set up to do it.

I've looked at the Domino but I'm not sure if it would work for what I want to do. For example how would you make a mortise in a seat for a wooden slat? The videos I've seen show the person using it resting it on a flat board and then pushing it into the wood. I see that it can be angled but what would you use on a curved seat? The best I could come up with is making some sort of jig. It's not a cheap tool so I've kind of steered myself away from getting something that required fiddling around with to get good results. The Grizzly that's on sale tilts side to side and the table tilts front to back along with the XY movement.

I went through this before I bought an oscillating spindle sander. Again wanted a floor model. It turns out that I've already used it far more than I ever felt I would. I think the HCM would be like what several of you have said, I'm not going to use it often but when I need it I'll enjoy having it.

When I said "drill press" this is kind of what I was thinking I could possibly do. Would I be able to make the round holes in these spindles with it? With the XY adjustment it would be much easier to move them exactly where I want the holes. On my DP I would have to keep adjusting the fence until it was in the right position and then clamp the spindle down while holding it from moving. Doing several for a chair could get tedious.
445039

[Mike Henderson]

I've used a hollow chisel mortiser but I've never felt the desire to purchase one. They do a decent job but, for the work I do, there are a lot of other ways to do a mortise. I, like others, use a Domino for most of my mortise applications. Where the Domino won't work, I will generally drill out the mortise and then trim with a chisel. If I can't do that, I'll chop it out with a chisel.

Unless you're going to do a lot of M&T joinery I'd look at other ways of doing the mortises. For a lot of woodworkers, I suspect, the hollow chisel mortiser just doesn't get a lot of use.

And if I was going to do a lot of mortises, I'd purchase a horizontal slot mortiser. Those are really slick.

Mike

[roger wiegand]

I have the General International floor model machine (75-075) and use it constantly. I would not mess around with any model that does not have an indexing table, they make all the difference in the world. Whichever one you get you should probably plan in budgeting for upgraded chisels and diamond sharpening cones. The chisels that came with mine required hours of prep work to make them useable and they still weren't as good as the "premium" chisels from Lee Valley. As with many machines, sharpening is key. I find the machine quick and easy to use.

I've been trying to use the horizontal mortiser attachment on my Minimax J/P for the last couple of years, so far no joy. It's much slower and fussier to use with poorer results than the hollow chisel mortiser with any of the cutters I've tried.

[Andrew Seemann]

I have two bench top mortisers, a 15 year old Jet and a 20 year old Delta. I currently have the Jet set up for use and the Delta in storage. It is my preferred way to mortice. I used to do them by hand occasionally, but I don't have the time or inclination anymore.

I use it regularly, as I tend to do a lot of Mission and Shaker style furniture requiring mortises.

[Alex Zeller]

I did buy a set of diamond sharpening cones for the chisels. I've never used a HCM which is why I'm asking questions. I have used my neighbors oscillating chisel mortiser but it's a beast, requires 3 phase power and has a pneumatic clamp. It's fun to watch it drill a square hole but I'm looking for tools for a hobbyist.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the PM benchtop mortiser.. It does everything I need for the small furniture I build as a hobbyist. When I need it for a project, Im glad to have it. If you have the money for a floor model and "want one", do it. I didn't, nor did I need that much capability.

Yes, you could probably use it to drill (round) holes, but it wouldnt be my first (or second) choice.

Enjoy your new tool!
Fred

[Tom M King]

I use them because I make reproductions of old architectural parts that used mortise, and tenons everywhere. I have a couple of benchtop models, as well as a 719t, because sometimes I need multiple setups at one time.

One thing you don't see mentioned is to put the slot in the chisel away from you, and use a shop vac to get most of the mess. The majority of it comes out of that slot, and by doing it this way, it keeps the view of what's going on open.

Also, use good quality bits, like the Japanese Star brand, also sold by LV as their "Premium" sets. The drill bits come long. Take your time and cut them exactly right so you can seat them all the way home in the chuck. It's not unusual for the bit to get pushed up into the chisel otherwise, which not only won't clear chips well, but instantly dulls the chisel. That also saves a lot of the setup time when you need to changes sizes. You can then just stick them in all the way, and go.

A well tuned one works easily. One with one factor off the slightest, and it becomes a PIA.

[Jim Becker]

I owned one for a number of years but it largely collected dust because of the nature of most of my projects. I sold it to another local woodworker (who is also a 'Creeker, and it gets a lot more love. I use Domino for this kind of joinery at this point, but there are SO many different ways to do M&T, and I do occasionally do a traditional M&T joint with actual hand tools. :)

As to the tool, itself, they can work very well if the chisels are properly sharpened and the combination of the chisel and drill bit is properly adjusted...let the drill bit do the work and the square chisel will clean things up nicely with nice, even pressure. As long as it's sharp. ;)

[Doug Dawson]

FWIW, the floor footprint of the Powermatic 719T and the cases for the Festool Dominoes is about the same. If you’re concerned about that sort of thing.

[glenn bradley]

I also look at them often. I eventually come back around to where I started (until I start looking again later on). The router does a clean and predictable job for me. I do use a Domino for case work but, stretchers, rails, aprons and legs still get routed mortises with typical or floating tenons.

[Steve Wurster]

I owned one for a number of years but it largely collected dust because of the nature of most of my projects. I sold it to another local woodworker (who is also a 'Creeker, and it gets a lot more love. I use Domino for this kind of joinery at this point, but there are SO many different ways to do M&T, and I do occasionally do a traditional M&T joint with actual hand tools. :)

As to the tool, itself, they can work very well if the chisels are properly sharpened and the combination of the chisel and drill bit is properly adjusted...let the drill bit do the work and the square chisel will clean things up nicely with nice, even pressure. As long as it's sharp. ;)

It doesn't get that much love, Jim. LOL I haven't used it anywhere near as much as I thought I would. Right now it's collecting dust under the wing of my table saw. I have also switched to using a Domino, although I haven't used that a ton yet. I will probably look to sell the mortiser at some point, after my next shop cleanup.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I have a Delta Benchtop one and use it once or twice a year, but when I use it, it is invaluable. I true up the bits with sandpaper or a diamond stone.

[Alex Zeller]

It sounds like what I figured. It's something that either you like and will use when needed or it'll just sit until you figure the space it occupies could be utilized better by a new tool. Also the type of work you do will play a big role in whether or not you'll use it. It's just money, lol. I'm thinking the only way I'll know is to buy one and see how much I use it.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a hollow chisel mortiser daily and make accurate clean mortises with it.

- Old iron is required here, a flimsy thing will make life difficult and you’ll park it in the corner.

- sharp chisels are required: meaning you have to actually sharpen them routinely just like a bench chisel.

[Bill Carey]

The Baileigh bench top HCM I have gets used in pretty much every project I do and is mounted permanently at the end of one of the benches. And it's a great tool, lacking only the ability to tilt, that really gets a workout in my shop.

And here's the best part - a real hold down to go along with the xy table.
445085

[Stan Calow]

What are you making and how often? I have a Delta bench top, and after several years, have yet to cut any mortise that looks as nice and neat as the ones you see in the magazines. Usually I have to run a router through to cleanup and often find the mortise off-line by a few degrees I blame this on the crudity of the fence, hold down clamps, and the slop in the moving parts. So hopefully the free-standing models you're looking at have better fit and finish. But if I were starting over, based on what I make, I'd rather have a horizontal router set-up to cut mortises.

[Jim Becker]

It doesn't get that much love, Jim. LOL I haven't used it anywhere near as much as I thought I would. Right now it's collecting dust under the wing of my table saw. I have also switched to using a Domino, although I haven't used that a ton yet. I will probably look to sell the mortiser at some point, after my next shop cleanup.
LOL....from the dusty corner of my former miter station to the dusty underside of your table saw wing...poor thing! :D

[Jim Becker]

It sounds like what I figured. It's something that either you like and will use when needed or it'll just sit until you figure the space it occupies could be utilized better by a new tool. Also the type of work you do will play a big role in whether or not you'll use it. It's just money, lol. I'm thinking the only way I'll know is to buy one and see how much I use it.

Well, Mr Wurster (above) presents a potential opportunity for you to acquire one here on the east coast. Make him an offer (via PM).

[Jared Sankovich]

- Old iron is required here, a flimsy thing will make life difficult and you'll park it in the corner.


This..
My 1200lb Oliver hcm is a lot nicer to use than the 50lb jet it replaced.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Brian that anyone wanting to use use hollow chisel mortising in a serious way should covet something heavy which is almost always also "vintage". That machine he restored and uses is pretty amazing.

[Kevin Jenness]

I have a slot mortiser as well as a Delta benchtop hollow chisel machine and a Domino 500.. The slot mortiser gets the most use for large inserted tenons and the Domino for smaller work and box type joinery, but the Delta is quite serviceable when I need square ended mortises for sash work or integral tenons. Setup is everything- sharp chisel and boring bit, chisel aligned with the fence, bit at the proper height relative to the chisel, dovetail gibs adjusted properly. A featherboard substitutes for a side clamp and the top fence keeps the workpiece held down. It does as good a job within its capacity as the Powermatic 10 we used to have at work. The mortises are not as cleanly milled as those from the slot mortisers but they certainly don't need any rework.

I don't think a hollow chisel mortiser would be a good drill press except for small bits as the rpms are high and non-adjustable.

The problem of large bits getting stuck can be alleviated by carefully grinding some relief on the sides of the chisels. I haven't had this problem on my hand lever Delta, but the Powermatic with its foot pedal relied on spring pressure for withdrawing the bit and often needed some assistance.

[Brian Holcombe]

Hollow chisel work:

445072
445073445074

Pretty sure I touched the sides lightly with a chisel since these are through tenons, something I never need to do for blind mortises. This work is more difficult with a router style machine to cut-out because the corners need to be squared, and the pegs made round. So instead of just running some square stock I need to turn or rive stock for round pegs and spend time squaring corners or one needs to have a round style tenoning machine.

[Andrew Seemann]

This..
My 1200lb Oliver hcm is a lot nicer to use than the 50lb jet it replaced.

True, but I have never had a mortice and tenon joint fail in 20+ years from either my 50lb Delta or 50lb Jet, so they do work adequately, even if they aren't as nice to use:)

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one, in the way that I would love to have a Northfield #4 or a 16" jointer; it just isn't realistic or practical (or really necessary for me).

[Jim Dwight]

A domino can take up more space than my benchtop hollow chisel mortiser but I do not let it. The tool rests on a shelf of my outfeed/assembly table. Under my track saw. Cases for both are on a high shelf of my utility room. A case can be handy if you travel with your tools but I do not (not often anyway and not so far with the domino). In addition, one of the reasons I did not buy any tenons is the size of the systainers they come in. Another reason is their size does not fit what I want for many projects. I want wider, more normal, tenons. But I keep 3 foot sticks of pre made domino stock but those take up a lot less space than the systainers. The way I do it, the domino takes up a small amount of space and no added footprint.

One way to think of a domino is as a router that oscillates side to side. It could easily plunge into a chair seat and can do so at an angle but would probably need at least a straight edge clamped across the seat to register too. It, like a track saw to some degree, takes some getting used to and is helped by some jigs. But that is also true for stationary tools, the jigs are just different.

The OP has the space for a floor standing model and the high price of the domino probably puts them into a similar cost bracket. You obviously have to deal with cutting tenons with the mortiser and for me that meant a shoulder plane. I think I would still want the domino even if I had the space for a floor standing model but it would be a much closer decision.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have. GI bench top Mortimer I bought about 18 years ago.

I make a lot of furniture using M&T joints, wouldn’t be without it....Rod.

[Alex Zeller]

Well, Mr Wurster (above) presents a potential opportunity for you to acquire one here on the east coast. Make him an offer (via PM).

Unfortunately it's 7 hours each way and with the virus restrictions I would have to self isolate when I returned. I don't know what restrictions are like on that end. That would mean having it shipped. Not knowing which model/ features it has it doesn't really make sense. From what I've read most of the bench top mortisers, at least the modern ones, aren't built that rugged. I'm guessing that a not so sharp chisel is most likely causing a lot of the issues but I would rather not be trying to guess if it's me or the tool that's causing a problem. That's why I figured if I was going to do it I would get a heavier floor model that hopefully have more rigidity.

I've seen a couple old iron mortisers but they look very old. One had a couple broken parts that had been repaired. While I like old iron I don't know if I want to try to track down parts if needed. Right now I'm more focused on my working with wood skills than repairing.

Someday I could see myself with a domino, maybe ev

[Alex Zeller]

The Baileigh bench top HCM I have gets used in pretty much every project I do and is mounted permanently at the end of one of the benches. And it's a great tool, lacking only the ability to tilt, that really gets a workout in my shop.

And here's the best part - a real hold down to go along with the xy table.
445085

I looked at the Baileigh mortisers but the shipping is a killer. The mortiser you have would be about $400 and another $250 for shipping. The next step up is their floor model (MC-1000) without the tilting table for about the same price as the Grizzly G0840. The G0840 is identical to their MC-1000TT but for the price of their MC-1000.

[Brian Holcombe]

There is a Wysong 284 Automatic on IRS Auctions that looks to be in nice shape.

[Jim Becker]

Unfortunately it's 7 hours each way and with the virus restrictions I would have to self isolate when I returned. I don't know what restrictions are like on that end. That would mean having it shipped. Not knowing which model/ features it has it doesn't really make sense. From what I've read most of the bench top mortisers, at least the modern ones, aren't built that rugged. I'm guessing that a not so sharp chisel is most likely causing a lot of the issues but I would rather not be trying to guess if it's me or the tool that's causing a problem. That's why I figured if I was going to do it I would get a heavier floor model that hopefully have more rigidity.

I've seen a couple old iron mortisers but they look very old. One had a couple broken parts that had been repaired. While I like old iron I don't know if I want to try to track down parts if needed. Right now I'm more focused on my working with wood skills than repairing.

Someday I could see myself with a domino, maybe ev
It's a Jet benchtop. I was the original owner and Steve lives right around the corner from me. Yes, travel is not a fun thing right now. It was just a suggestion.

And yes...sharp is important as is proper orientation of the drill bit relative to the end of the chisel, etc. Whether you're using a benchtop unit or a heavy, old iron, floor standing machine, setup is the key to best results within the machine's capability.

[Alex Zeller]

There is a Wysong 284 Automatic on IRS Auctions that looks to be in nice shape.

I did look at it but it's kind of a beast. It has two 3 phase motors on it, a 5hp and a 1.5hp so there would be some expense to make it run on single phase. I think that the 1.5hp motor is just for the oscillating feature so maybe it wouldn't be needed. But it's 15 hours south of me. I'm not too comfortable with shipping something like this. If new one is damaged then I refuse delivery and they send a new one. But with this, however it shows up is what I get. I'm guessing it'll sell for at least $1000 with another $150 buyers fee and 6.75% tax. If it was lighter I have a good friend that lives a couple hours away that could make sure it was secured and well protected to ship it but I'm guessing that it must weigh over 1000 lbs so he would have no way to get it back to his house. Also while I have plenty of room in my shop getting something that big into it would pose a bit of a challenge.

I have been watching IRS (and a couple others) for the last couple years. I've seen a Powermatic 719T and a Grizzly (top of their line) sell for about $1000 but both were kind of far away (the Grizzly was in western PA). Used auction prices have been really high lately. I'm guessing it's from the limited amount of new stuff coming from Asia.

[Brian Holcombe]

If that’s the case I probably wouldn’t get a hollow chisel mortiser at all, something like a JDS multi router would be more appealing to me if I couldn’t have an old iron mortiser for practical reasons.

A mortiser that flexes is not useful, there is a good reason the old machines were so heavy, they would not have made them so if it wasn’t necessary.

The older, big grizzly is probably fine. I know of one person with that one and he likes it. The lightweight mortisers aren’t worth it everyone I know who has one either stops mortising with a chisel or replaces it with a heavy machine. One of my very good friends, who was extremely talented, cursed the lightweight mortiser in his shop constantly. The Wadkin DM and many Japanese made mortisers are really the way to go for compact mortisers and they are still 800lbs or so.

[Phillip Mitchell]

There is a Wysong 284 Automatic on IRS Auctions that looks to be in nice shape.

Ssssshhh. I’ve got my eyes on that one :D

It does look to be in nice condition. In all reality, it will likely go for more than I’m prepared to spend and it would be a bear to move into my shop, but you never know.

[matt romanowski]

I bought the Rikon benchtop model this summer when it was on sale at Woodcraft. I have only used it on a few projects, but so far it seems good. I'm certainly happy with it and it's a major time saver over using the router and then squaring up the mortise.

[Alan Lightstone]

I bought a benchtop one, installed it on a flip-top table I built, and it's been hanging upside down for years. The belt sander on the other side is upright and gets used.

A lesson for me there, somewhere. It's living a more tortured fate than the one mentioned that's living under the table saw wing.

I use the Domino, often, for those projects.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have a General International benchtop mortiser mounted on it's own stand. I use it when I need mortises. As stated earlier, sharp chisels are the key to successful and happy use!

[Ole Anderson]

I bought the Delta hollow chisel mortiser DP attachment. I had to make a bushing so it would fit my Craftsman DP. Originally bought it to make a Mission bed headboard and footboard. It would have been difficult with any other tool with the curves I had to deal with. It wasn't easy pushing a 5/8" chisel with a DP, but it worked. Have since used it on a few other projects.

[Robert Engel]

Have a floor model PM. Use it, love it. Bought it cheap.

If I was looking to get one now, I would get a horizontal mortiser or pantarouter.