Windsor chair making. Best to take a class first?

[Jason Buresh]

Hello everyone!

I would like to attempt to make a windsor chair in the not so distant future. I am intimidated though, I wont lie. There are a lot of angles and parts to fit.

I have been reading books and watching videos on the process, so i have an idea of the amount of effort, skill, and time this will take.

To those with more knowledge and experience than me, would taking a class on building one of these be a better idea than trying to tackle one on my own? I am looking to build a sack back windsor.

[Peter Mich]

If you can swing it, take a class first.

Should you want to give it a try on your own, Curtis Buchanan’s videos provide great step by step instructions and Pete Galbert’s book, Chairmaker’s Notebook, provides a great deal of guidance about his magic. They are excellent instructors and great people, so their class offerings fill up in an instant.

As an entry point to chair making, Curtis recently released plans and videos for his Democratic Chair which is accessible in many ways in that it can be built with minimal investment in tools and doesn’t require much in the way of turning legs/stretchers or steam bending bows or rails.

If you decide to take a class, you’ll be certain to end up with a great chair. Additionally, most Windsor chair instructors provide all necessary tools during the class, so you’ll not only gain insight into all of the skills, but also (and more importantly) the tools that you may want to acquire should you decide to build chairs on your own.

Peter

[John Keeton]

Jason, I sent you an email thru SMC. Taking a class with the Covid situation probably is not possible. Pete Galbert is immunocompromised and isn’t doing in person classes and I believe most of the better teachers are not either. Brian Cunfer has a class scheduled at John C Campbell Folk School in late May next year and that would be an option. I believe it is for a loop back.

[Paul Saffold]

Greg Pennington is offering classes again. He is near Nashville. He has all the tools you will need and is excellent. Elia Bizzarri and Curtis Buchanan have a multipart webinar ongoing right now. He even sold the wood needed for the class and shipped to students. Follow Elia's blog or follow him on Instagram to see when/if he is offering another class. You will need your own tools for in-home classes. Elia makes and sells reasonably priced tools for chair making. As Peter said, Curtis Buchanan youtube videos are excellent.

[Prashun Patel]

Classes are great - mainly because they support some of the great teachers who give their info away for free online.

But, they are not totally necessary; they will make it faster for you though, as you'll be saved from your own mistakes.

I haven't taken a class and it's been fine.

I highly recommend Curtiss Buchanan's and Mike Dunbar's series on 'Tube. You can also purchase plans from Buchanan for most of his chairs.

I recommend you start with Buchanan's "Democratic Chair". It teaches the basic concepts of construction without complicating with large bends or complex lathe work. He does everything with the drawknife, though. While that will make you a Ninja with this important tool, you can certainly use other more modern techniques and tools to bore and shape.

I also recommend Peter Galbert's blog and the few videos he posts. He is a master at modernizing the techniques such as drilling at odd angles.

I often think Buchanan is to Lie Nielsen as Galbert is to Veritas (if that makes any sense...)

I think attempting to do this without a class will inform your class experience if you ultimately decide you need one. Having not taken a class, I can see now that I'd be much better served now taking a class in a particular technique (such as turning stretcher and leg details with a skew chisel). A lot of the basic things like bending wood are easily learned from videos, and I think my class time would be wasted on that.

Last, if you decide to go it alone, I suggest you start a build thread here and you'll get some pretty personalized and advanced responses from the likes of John K...

[steven c newman]

I seem to recall an episode on The New Yankee Workshop ( long ago) where Norm learned how to make such a chair,,,,

[Jason Buresh]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I had not heard of curtis Buchanan before, but i looked him up and i think, as suggested, the democratic chair would be a good place to start. I actually bought his plans, but I am having trouble opening the PDF. I will have to figure that out on my end though. I will have to watch a video on his chair when i get home.

I had watched the entire series of Mike Dunbar on building Windsors, and that is what fueled my curiosity.

I think I will start with the simpler design of the democratic chair and see where that takes me.

[Prashun Patel]

One thing I will say:

Many people are tempted to use kiln dried stock because riven or green wood is not something people are used to getting or working with. It's alluring to want to get into the shaping and drilling. But take the time to source your stock and select your pieces as they prescribe; it's a deceptively critical step. That will make you a better woodworker in general anyway.

Oh yeah, the other nice thing about the Democratic chair is that Buchanan designed it specifically with new makers in mind. It is designed to be built with a minimal number of specialty tools.

[Jason Buresh]

One thing I will say:

Many people are tempted to use kiln dried stock because riven or green wood is not something people are used to getting or working with. It's alluring to want to get into the shaping and drilling. But take the time to source your stock and select your pieces as they prescribe; it's a deceptively critical step. That will make you a better woodworker in general anyway.

Oh yeah, the other nice thing about the Democratic chair is that Buchanan designed it specifically with new makers in mind. It is designed to be built with a minimal number of specialty tools.

I see this being my biggest issue. Most of my lumber comes from the big box stores because its easily accessible. You would think living in WI would be easy to source wood, but i cant just venture out to the forest and start hacking down trees, and unfortunately the only 2 pieces of land i have access to have popple and white pine, and the popple are the only ones i would be able to cut. I do not have access to oak or maple, or know of a sawmill locally that I can go to.

[Prashun Patel]

You can order it. Elia bizarri (another awesome teacher) sells billets. There are other sources on the web. You can also check with your local hard wood dealer. They may sell you a log. But going with Elia , et al, means you will get good quality stock without waste.

[Jim Matthews]

May I suggest a PM to our own Derek Cohen "In the woodshop". If there's a pitfall to lookout for, he'll be an excellent guide.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/

[Larry Frank]

Taking a class can be a great experience of being able to talk to an expert and other students. I took a class to learn to make a Maloof style rocker and it was a great experience along with learning to build a chair.

[Frederick Skelly]

One thing I will say:

Many people are tempted to use kiln dried stock because riven or green wood is not something people are used to getting or working with. It's alluring to want to get into the shaping and drilling. But take the time to source your stock and select your pieces as they prescribe; it's a deceptively critical step. That will make you a better woodworker in general anyway.

Oh yeah, the other nice thing about the Democratic chair is that Buchanan designed it specifically with new makers in mind. It is designed to be built with a minimal number of specialty tools.

I'm not ready to try a Windsor yet, but there's still a lot of good "chair info" in this post and the one earlier. And I would have gone after kiln dried stock exactly for the reasons you stated. Thank you Prashun!
Fred

[John Keeton]

One caveat with using riven maple stock for the legs, stretchers and arm supports - if you turn or shape these elements while green, be sure to leave excess diameter in the portions that will become tapered tenons. When the tenons are super dried in the kiln they will shrink and become oblong in cross section. You will need uniform tenons to get good joinery and those tenons are best formed on the super dry end of the stock just prior to assembly. Shrinkage in the turned portion of the legs, etc., is not noticeable and not an issue, but it is in the tenons.

[mike stenson]

There's Zabels in New London, Thomas Wiedemeier in Porterfield, and quite a few more saw mills in a quick google search and a whole bunch of lumber companies. You should have more ready access than I do in Tucson.

[Jason Buresh]

There's Zabels in New London, Thomas Wiedemeier in Porterfield, and quite a few more saw mills in a quick google search and a whole bunch of lumber companies. You should have more ready access than I do in Tucson.

Im familiar with Thomas Weidmeier, but i never thought they would sell one whole log to a guy, but you never know unless you ask i guess

[mike stenson]

Im familiar with Thomas Weidmeier, but i never thought they would sell one whole log to a guy, but you never know unless you ask i guess

Worst thing they can say is 'no' :) If you tell them you're making chairs, they might have some stuff for you.. never know

[Jason Buresh]

Well i had one thought and went to the yard waste center down the road from my work on lunch and there was a trailer of logs being dumped. It looked like oak bark, but it was really white in the center. I tried to heave a 24" round by 6' piece in the back of my truck but couldn't get it in there by myself. Im not 100% sure it was even oak, but it was straight and knot free.

[Jason Buresh]

Well i was able to sucker a coworker into helping me load this pig into the back of my truck.
444892

I am hoping this is an Ash, but my identification skills arent very good. If its not oak or ash I can cut it up for fire wood. Ita very straight with no knots though

[Prashun Patel]

Watch the Buchanan video on splitting the log. 24" round - do you mean diameter?

Each species splits differently.

IF this were me, after reading and watching a lot, I'd chainsaw the log into 2 x 3ft sections. I use a hatchet and deadblow hammer for all my splitting. On a short log (< 2-3 feet) you can split a good log with a few blows in the end grain and it'll cleave without having to use wedges. Longer than that, you not only may need wedges, but you may also need a froe and brake once you get it halved so that you can direct the split. A 6ft section will only be necessary for the long crest rails or continuous arm styles.

The Dem Chair video shows Buchanan using the hatchet as a mini froe. A lot of what he does with the 'minimal set of tools' is possible because of his technique and experience and sharpening ability.

[Jason Buresh]

I would say it is about 24" diameter. These are guess's, i didn't have a tape measure with me. It may be shorter than 6'.

I watched the video on Buchanan riving, but i am going to have to rewatch and take notes.

[lowell holmes]

I made my chair here, and made several more in my shop.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/reviews/2802

[Mike Henderson]

For bending, I agree that air dried wood is better than kiln dried. But if you're going to turn your legs and spindles on a lathe, kiln dried is fine. Our ancestors shaped the spindles with a draw knife but when I made my Windsor chairs I turned them on a lathe and used kiln dried wood.

Mike

[Prashun Patel]

It is certainly possible to use kiln dried stock on a windsor chair. But kiln dried lumber - even riven or qs stock isn't necessarly without runout. Working with green wood is the easiest way to get that.

Not only is completely straight grain the strongest (particularly for spindles), it is also the easiest to work with hand tools. It's a revelation to plane or spoke shave it; you can go at it from either direction with more ease than typcial purchased lumber that hasn't been given this attention.

Where you really notice it is when working with the drawknife. The layers peel off cleanly. The cathedral grain of something like ash oak gives you a visual clue of how much runout you have.

All this is to say half of the genius of the Windsor chair isn't in just in its final form, but the methods.

If you're eager and have the back for it, do it. You won't regret it.