MFT type table vs 3 hp Saw Stop with 52" fence

[tim walker]

Looking at pros and cons. I have the Saw Stop. I am just wondering if I really need the MFT type top. Nothing will be made outside of my shop so mobility is not an issue. And I see cutting down plywood stock using my TSO square and track saws, not using an MFT table. Pros and Cons ---GO TIA

[Ben Grefe]

I have a MFT and a SawStop with the 36 inch fence. Even if I had the longer SawStop table, I’d still prefer to use my MFT table for cross cuts. It’s just so easy to either cut a sharp 90 using bench dogs, or a weird angle by marking, clamping and putting the track saw guide down. Once pieces get too narrow, they’re just unwieldy on the table saw.

However - I’m sorta sick of how much space the MFT takes in the shop. Floor real estate is at a premium and every time I look to do a re-org, my eyes first go to the MFT. Tough call. Once it ended up in the shop (purchased used for a pretty good price), it’s has been hard to imagine life without, but at the same time it’s not 100% necessary. I bought it thinking it would be a mobile table for use on a job site (renovating my house), so it wasn’t in the shop plans from the get go.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have a 36" 3HP Sawstop, an MFT and an MFT style top on my workbench.

I liked the idea of the MFT, but found its size a little impractical, i.e. too small, for my use.

So I bought the Parf Dog System and made myself an MFT style top 8' x 40". I have a workbench that is 72x 36" and I just lay my MFT style top on this and clamp it around the edges to my workbench. I can clamp through the dog holes on the overlap areas.

With this, my actual MFT becomes a bit of a dumping ground. I wouldn't buy it again, but I'd do my bench dog top again in a nano second.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop2_zpsvpkrlszb.jpg


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Bench%20Dog%20Top/.highres/BenchDogTop3_zpsczfeejs4.jpg

[tim walker]

My intent is to use it on top of a large outfeed table for my Saw Stop. I have a really great crosscut sled that I built from plans from King Woodworkings and it is dead on accurate, even for 45's. I have also toyed with the idea of interspersing the top with T-Tracks as well but that may be overkill. Thanks again.

[Randy Heinemann]

Sounds like you may not have a real good reason to own the MFT3 table. I have found that using my MFT and my TS55 Festool tracksaw I get the squarest, most accurate cuts I've ever gotten. However, I down't own a Sawstop cabinet saw; only the Sawstop Jobsite saw. I do have an Incra crosscut sled with one of their high-end miter gauges and that does cut very accurately. It's just easier to get the same accuracy for me using the MFT and track saw. I think it's mostly what you get used to and are comfortable with. I never bring full plywood sheets into my workshop and use the track saw to cut even the smaller sheets both on and off the MFT depending on how large the partial sheet is. It's safer than trying to run a large piece on any table saw except maybe something like a professional sliding saw.

[Richard Coers]

I have a 36" 3HP Sawstop, an MFT and an MFT style top on my workbench.

I liked the idea of the MFT, but found its size a little impractical, i.e. too small, for my use.

So I bought the Parf Dog System and made myself an MFT style top 8' x 40". I have a workbench that is 72x 36" and I just lay my MFT style top on this and clamp it around the edges to my workbench. I can clamp through the dog holes on the overlap areas.

With this, my actual MFT becomes a bit of a dumping ground. I wouldn't buy it again, but I'd do my bench dog top again in a nano second.


You must be tall and have really long arms to comfortably make that cut stretched over top of the bench. My back won't take that kind of stretch any longer.

[Michael W. Clark]

I have a cabinet saw and used the TS55 with tracks to break down full sheets then cut to final size on the TS in my old shop. There was no room to handle full sheets across the TS.

In my current shop, I’m blessed with more space and have more room with adequate Infeed and outfeed support so I break down full sheets directly on the TS.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I haven't taken the time to learn much about the dog hole systems, just watched a few videos. Someone educate me a little if I'm missing something. Questions based on a hypothetical kitchen cabinet build.

First, how do I repeatedly cut the same size component? It's fast and easy with the cabinet saw, I don't see how you duplicate with a dog system.

Second, how does one of these systems save time or space? To be useful, bigger is better, right?

Third, yes they look interesting, and I kind of want to make one, but I'm seriously struggling to see the usefulness beyond being a right angle jig for a track saw. What else do they do?

Looks to me like the cabinet saw is faster, more repeatable and takes up the same footprint. Oh, you still have to lug the sheet up on a table with both. I don't see how you'd replace a table saw with one of these without giving up capabilities.

[ChrisA Edwards]

You must be tall and have really long arms to comfortably make that cut stretched over top of the bench. My back won't take that kind of stretch any longer.

My workbench is the same height as my SawStop, built it that way, so my MFT raises that an additional 3/4" (the workbench came before I knew about MFT options). I'm 63, 160lbs and 5' 7", but you don't have to set your fence at the farthest point away from you, you use the row of bench dog holes that best suits the width of the work piece being cut. That's one of the advantages of rows of perfectly accurate bench dogs holes.

To answer Steve' questions (post #8). I use bench dogs and blocks and clamps to set stops for repeatable cross cuts. Sometimes building a cabinet, it's just easier to lay the material flat on the MFT top and use the track saw to cut it than man handle it through the table saw.

I still break down most of my 4'x8' sheets laying on a sheet of 2" pink insulation on the floor with a track saw. Weather dependent, I'll do this outside right out of the bed of my truck. I cut my 4'x8' sheet of insulation into 3 equal pieces 32" x 48" for ease of storage.

[Jim Becker]

I did a hybrid approach for my bench that includes the 20mm grid as well as support for .75" holes in the thicker members for my beloved holdfasts. I would have totally standardized on the 20mm overall, but...those holdfasts get used constantly.

That said, how you work or intend to work comes into play relative to the value of the grid. It's very helpful for tasks that involve squaring things. A modified version with some slots that permit easier clamping mid-table is also something to consider. Then again, if you're not going to use the grid, having it there can be a detriment....stuff falls through and you can't just slap a piece of paper on the surface and draw on it without putting the pencil through the paper where the holes are. :)

[Harvey Miller]

I also have a Sawstop with the 36” fence. The MFT is my most used Festool. I use it on every project. To me the grid top is worth the ‘investment’. Besides crosscuts it’s a great way to get 90 degree clamping. I’ve used it for glueups on door, window trim pieces, and cabinet boxes.
I too use pink insulation under my sheet good cuts but do the long cuts on either the MFT or sawhorses and the Lee Valley platform panel kit.

[Curt Putnam]

I sold my TS in favor of an MFT and am beginning to regret that decision for the following reasons.

* My saw is an ATF55 and height adjustment is difficult and the scale is black on black
* The height adjustment issue makes it problematic for dealing with varying thicknesses
* Mess up just once on height adjustment and you have a damaged MFT (DAMHIKT)
* The 7" wide rail makes it difficult to deal with stock narrower than 7"
* The final reason is personal. The cutoffs are on the right. I am used to balde left saws and left tilt TS. It has messed me up when I've tried to move fast and have not really settled my head to MFT operation.

A table saw excels at making parts parallel and of exactly equal width. Try ripping 1/4" of a piece of 8/4 hard maple on the MFT and compare to doing so in your Sawstop.

[tim walker]

I will be making an MFT top on top of a torsion box that will serve as the outfeed table for my SawStop. I am just really wondering if using one of the available and expensive jigs is really worth the cost.

[ChrisA Edwards]

If you are just going to use the bench dog holes for temporary stops and clamping, there's no real need for the accurate jigs. If you plan to use if with a track saw, then to me, they are worth the cost.

You'll never go wrong with accurate placed holes.

The nice thing is, when you have abused your existing top, it's easy to replace it with a new one.

[Jim Dwight]

My shop is only 14x24 so my outfeed table is also my track saw cutting station and also my bench and assembly table. The top is two separated layers, Ron Paulk style. Each is 3/4 plywood. The holes are 20mm made with a special router base and pegboard. They are not completely accurate. For crosscuts I clamp a fence with a stop to the edge of the table. The fence has a screw I use to square it. The table is 3x7 feet. My SawStop is the 36 inch PCS with 1.75hp.

There are several ways to do repeat cuts. There is a good youtube I saw on the FOG of a guy who cuts cabinet parts using blocks that index off the dog holes. Seems like a good system if you want to cut the same size a lot. I use what I call track positioning guides that have an adjustable stop with an adjustable hairline pointer and stick on rule to put the track where I want it. So I move the stop of the guide, position one end of the rail, position the other, and then check the first one again. I clamp when possible and get really accurate cuts. There are also parallel guides that position both edges of the rail at the same time. I have some but I find the simpler positioning guide handier. The short version is you need to make or buy some sort of jig to do repeat cuts.

I do not think a MFT is a good buy for use in the shop. Maybe if you do a lot of work outside your shop. But I would look at Ron Paulk's workbenches and view youtubes of cross cutting with dogs instead of the MFT system. I saw one where a guy sold off his MFT crosscut fence because he liked dogs better. If you are going to use dogs, all you need is a holey top to your bench. The holes are also very useful to clamp workpieces to the bench for sanding, cutting domino mortises, etc..

[Nick Drake]

I have a torsion box type outfeed table (ala Paulk) with the 20mm dog holes that I made using the parf guide. I made a cross cut jig by drilling holes in some 1/2" scrap ply, drops into holes on the outfeed table. That allows you to have a zero clearance kerf and not cuts in your table, but more importantly it lets me located the track out past 3' to extend the width of my bench.
On the long piece I used an incra track as a stop block. The main reason being that with it's V shaped teeth I can drop right back in to the EXACT same measurement every time. If you ever mess up a piece later on down the process it's very easy to duplicate.

I was making some bookshelves and routing a dado instead of doing shelf pins (built in furniture look). The jig with the incra track worked great for this. I set up my router to run on a track, noted down the measurements I had used on the incra track for the first piece. For all the following ones I could drop the stop block in exactly the same spot, all panels came out dead on identical dados. No need to route prior to cutting the side panels and it allowed me to nest cuts on the sheet to get more yield.


For me with a very small shop currently going with a smaller TS fence and this cross cut jig really is the best of both worlds.

[Dan Rude]

There is a current alternative to a MFT. Bora has a Fold-n-Half top for the Centipede Saw Horse with either 20mm or 3/4" dog holes. https://www.homedepot.com/p/BORA-Centipede-24-in-x-48-in-Workbench-Top-for-Sawhorse-with-3-4-in-Dog-Holes-CK22T/314105613. ACME Tools has the 20mm https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/bora-ck22t. Dan

[tim walker]

Bit the bullet and ordered the Park MK 2 system.

[Jon Kenton]

My shop is only 14x24 so my outfeed table is also my track saw cutting station and also my bench and assembly table. The top is two separated layers, Ron Paulk style. Each is 3/4 plywood. The holes are 20mm made with a special router base and pegboard. They are not completely accurate. For crosscuts I clamp a fence with a stop to the edge of the table. The fence has a screw I use to square it. The table is 3x7 feet. My SawStop is the 36 inch PCS with 1.75hp.

There are several ways to do repeat cuts. There is a good youtube I saw on the FOG of a guy who cuts cabinet parts using blocks that index off the dog holes. Seems like a good system if you want to cut the same size a lot. I use what I call track positioning guides that have an adjustable stop with an adjustable hairline pointer and stick on rule to put the track where I want it. So I move the stop of the guide, position one end of the rail, position the other, and then check the first one again. I clamp when possible and get really accurate cuts. There are also parallel guides that position both edges of the rail at the same time. I have some but I find the simpler positioning guide handier. The short version is you need to make or buy some sort of jig to do repeat cuts.

I do not think a MFT is a good buy for use in the shop. Maybe if you do a lot of work outside your shop. But I would look at Ron Paulk's workbenches and view youtubes of cross cutting with dogs instead of the MFT system. I saw one where a guy sold off his MFT crosscut fence because he liked dogs better. If you are going to use dogs, all you need is a holey top to your bench. The holes are also very useful to clamp workpieces to the bench for sanding, cutting domino mortises, etc..

Hi Jim,
I just read this post and my situation is nearly identical to yours. My shop is a tad smaller than yours and I will be getting a new 36 inch sawstop pcs next week. I am noodling on a solution for outfeed/bench/assembly/tracksaw and it looks like you have a solution that works for you. I would be very interested to learn more about your experience.

Thanks in advance

Jon

[Joe Hendershott]

Bit the bullet and ordered the Park MK 2 system.

I think you won't regret the Parf system. Some great videos by Peter to reference from. While I do not use my MFT with a Sawstop I do use it everyday to clamp items to while performing all kinds of tasks. The rails on the sides are great for clamping things vertically.

The initial pain of laying out a bunch of money for a great tool fades soon after as you see the value and the pleasure of using something well engineered and well thought out. The resale value is also very high if you decide you want to sell.

[Bill Dufour]

Never seen one in person. Is there any reason a MFT table can not be leaned against a wall like a panel saw? Or mounted on a cart in the same orientation?
Bill D

[Christopher Glanton]

Hi Jim,
I just read this post and my situation is nearly identical to yours. My shop is a tad smaller than yours and I will be getting a new 36 inch sawstop pcs next week. I am noodling on a solution for outfeed/bench/assembly/tracksaw and it looks like you have a solution that works for you. I would be very interested to learn more about your experience.

Thanks in advance

Jon

Ditto. My Sawstop PCS just got delivered a few days ago. I too plan on making dog holes on my outfeed table using Woodpeckers Hole Boring Jig. So many options ;)

[Thomas Pender]

I have the Sawstop PCS 3HP with the 52” fence and the MFT. Use them both. Find cutting 45 degree angles on the Festool is a breeze and they are precise. (You can also sneak up on perfect cuts.). Also and maybe this is heresy, to me the Festool makes better repeatable cuts for cross cutting, cross cut sled or not. But the the Sawstop is the best ripper (super precise fence) and boy is it wonderful for plywood and squaring things up and my dado there is also wonderful. Only thing I am contemplating now is buy the EQ 75. Sometimes I like to cut thick stuff. Alternatively, perhaps the Kapex. I think we are ever so lucky to have these tools like these and others, like the Noden Adjusta Bench, the Rotex or the Bosch 6” two function, inexpensive planers like the Dewalt 735, the helix head jointers Grizzly sells, and the whole line of Veritas bevel up planes. irony is how Festool bought Sawstop once its patent stood up.