Foley retoother questions

[Blake M Williams]

Look what I got! I couldn't believe my luck finding one with so many carriers and ratchet bars. I'm pretty sure I do not need multiples of items but I thought I would check with you guys to see what I have, what I should keep and what I can sell. I can't wait to play with it.

Foley retoother 385. Runs.

Ratchet bars are as followed,

10-5 1/2
10-5 1/2
13-7-4
13-7-4
8-4 1/2
8-4 1/2
11-6
9-5

Carriers:

2 look the same.
2 others look the same
1 big funky one i havent seen before in my searching
3 more carrier bars (missing hardware?)


That was the good, the bad is that I'm missing the die and the die holder. I know the dies are still available. A bit pricey but available but the holder is not. Do any of you happen to have broken retoother with these parts? Or know where I can find them?.

[Jim Koepke]

Pete Taran gave me a lot of good information after my purchase of some Foley sharpening equipment. Thankfully it was inexpensive enough that it isn't a big loss. Mine doesn't have any of the ratchet bars or holders.

It seems it would cost me a lot more to get it working than it would return on the investment.

jtk

[Pete Taran]

If you keep an eye out, you can find these for parts. I sometimes see people parting them out on Ebay. The funky carrier as you call it is for holding keyhole saws. One of the carriers should have an X on one end. If you sight along it, it should have a gradual curve. This was the 3/16" breasted carrier. The other two are straight, one for regular handsaws and one for backsaws. It looks like you have 2 backsaw carriers, they are the ones with the rounded cap head screws and are closest to the keyhole saw carrier in your first photo.

All the hardware is interchangeable, so you can use those carriers bars with whatever hangers you want. The stock foley bars are ok, but I got some laser cut that are longer and also have different degrees of curvature (1/8", 3/16" and 1/4"). I use the 1/8" bar the most when rehabbing saws found in the wild. Hope this helps.

[Blake M Williams]

Thank you. I looked and one of the ones next to the keyhole carrier has an X on it. Ill need to do my homework. I'm not sure what it is for exactly.

[Pete Taran]

Blake, like I said, it's to cut teeth in a saw with a curved edge, specifically 3/16" high in the middle. You should be able to easily see this if you sight down the edge of that carrier bar, it's not straight.

[Blake M Williams]

I see it now. Staring me right in the face lol. Ok every carrier bar has an X. But if I look down them the one on the left and the one on right are slightly curved. The two in the middle are straight.

And one of the three extra bars has a curve as well. One on the right.

[Pete Taran]

That is unusual. All the ones I have ever seen with an X are curved. Seems like you have the carrier bars for two different machines. The standard was for 3. The keyhole carrier was extra. Plus the retoother bars you have contain duplicates. The standard set was 5 bars which would cut 8,9,10,11 and 12 point teeth. 13,14,15 and 16 were options. Of course you can cut coarser teeth by adjusting the feed pawl to skip a notch as you are feeding. In some cases you skip 2 as in the case of the 13 point bar. Skip one and you get 7 point teeth, skip two and you get 4 point teeth.

[Ron Bontz]

Can't help you with the die, but If you decide to get rid of the key hole saw carrier, give me an email. I also have a set of ratchet bars, 14, 15, 16 ppi I can sell, but they are a bit pricey. I had a couple of sets recently made.

[Blake M Williams]

Thats Pete, I hope my bars work for this machine. The ratchet bars fit...

I'll measure them when I get home.

Ron, I'll send ya an email.

[Pete Taran]

They will. They only made one size.

[Blake M Williams]

I asked Ron what he thought was fair and he has advised me to check with you guys on what the keyhole carrier is worth. If any of you have an idea please let me know.

[Blake M Williams]

Were there any changes made to the 385 when foley and belsaw merged? Is the Foley 385 and the Foley-belsaw 385 the same?

[Pete Taran]

I don't think they are any different. There is an earlier version of the retoother that I sometimes see around but it was a different number. That piece you need is nothing fancy. It's made of cast iron but you could make one up out of mild steel. Just a thick piece of metal with a hole of the right size to hold the die with a screw to close up the hole and grip the assembly. A couple hours of work if you have a milling machine or know someone who does. None of the parts in any of their machines are elaborate or hard to make.

[Blake M Williams]

I thought as much. I do not have a milling machine but I used a shop for another item before. They prefer a detailed measured schematic. If possible could someone measure their part?

I could maybe use some paper to mark holes and die position. What are the tolerances between the die and the plunger part? When it comes down, does it contact and slide down the die a little? I'm imagining a pair of scissors and how the blades are just close enough to touch.

[Pete Taran]

The die and punch fit tightly. The holes that clamp the die to the machine are oversize with enough play to get it lined up perfectly. I adjust the anvil so it's close to being in the right orientation, then lower the punch to it's lowest position, then push the assembly holding the anvil tightly against the punch and then tighten the two nuts that hold it to the machine. Also of critical tolerance is the amount the punch extends below the die face. You want it to be about .03" below the die face. You wouldn't think it would matter but it does. The punch has a series of thin washers on the shaft that you can't see that affect the depth. As you grind the face of the die and punch, you need to extend the punch further and further. You can also put washers under the die.

[Blake M Williams]

Thanks Pete, I'm getting an idea of what this looks like.

All holes are oversized for adjustment.

The center hole in holder is all the way through. So the die sits on the retoother itself? Height can be adjusted with washers.

What is the height of the holder?

Does my sketch look correct?

[Blake M Williams]

Good news, I found an NOS die. Much cheaper than new and between what Pete and the manual say about setting up. I know I have some wiggle room. Once the die comes in I think I can make a template easy enough. I suppose I dont need anything special as far as metal type. Once I have a drawing I'll get a piece of metal and take it to same shop I used last time. Basically just drilling four holes and making it truly flat. Shouldn't cost all that much.

I'm selling the other extra items. They will help pay for this new toy. Keep a watch out. I will try my hand at a dovetail saw before too long.

[Blake M Williams]

What are yalls opinions on the Gramercy Handle makers rasp set? I have a Narex rasp and lots of sandpaper I've used for hand plane totes. But I'd like to not need sandpaper so much.

[Patrick Whitehorn]

Blake,
I have them both (fine and coarse) and they work a treat. I might suggest you also consider their rifflers; they are also excellent.

Patrick

[Blake M Williams]

I got my hands on another retoother. Pretty cheap considering it did not come with carriers or bars. I jumped on it due to the fact that it was in Texas and the shipping wasn't a killer.

I swapped the die holder over and gave it a quick test on a junk saw. Extremely happy. I will be taking it apart and cleaning it up. This machine will be a learning experience and for anyone interested I will post pictures as I go.

[Michael J Evans]

There was a set of these machines avail on my local Craigslist recently. A retoother, auto setter and sharpening machine. Idk how much the retoother went for but they want 600 for the setter and sharpener.

[Blake M Williams]

I got my retoother apart. I should get it back together tonight. I took apart my spare first just to see what I was getting into and a gib button broke to pieces. Like a biscuit. I was pretty worried but so far the ones in the main retoother are intact but just in case I tried to look up replacements with no luck.

[Blake M Williams]

Got it back together. Cleaned out the gunk and used light oil. Sharpened the punch, had some trial and error but it is good now. Had a chip in it. The gib buttons stayed together too so I worried for nothing. I had a heck of a time getting the punch and die right. The punch needs to go into the die about 1/32 of an inch. If you pull the punch out you'll find a screw under it you can shim with washers. I spent a long time looking for a tiny washer...

I got it all together and the gibs snugged up. Move punch up and down looking for play and make sure it still moves freely but with no play.

So I obviously wanted to see if I got better results! Last run wasn't bad but the teeth had a slight bend to them almost like a slight set in one direction because punch and die needed to be sharper and the play tightened up.

Good news. What teeth it did cut were awesome! No bends, no "set" in one direction.

Bad news. Carrier spring clip broke and I will need replacements.

[Pete Taran]

Those moustache clips are the weak link of all their machines. I think you can still buy replacements from the folks that bought out Foley. Sharpening supply. If not, hopefully you can swap some out from your crunk machine.

[Blake M Williams]

They are still available. The picture makes it look like NOS so who knows how many they have. 4.99 a piece so I got some ordered. My parts machine is slightly different. Instead of clips there are rubber like wheels. Looks like they would swap ok but I don't think there are replacements.

The springs looks doable if you had to. The metal used would need to keep its strength though.