Woodpeckers Hole Boring Jig

[tim walker]

The 20mm / 3/4" combo is on sale for $169 vs normal $199., Thoughts vs the park guide at $199 (if you can find one available) that does only 20mm holes but does come with bits? Seems the Woodpeckers version may give best of both worlds after purchasing the 1/2" bit. And everything WP that I have purchased has been top notch. TIA.

[tim walker]

Or $229 at Lee Valley

[Dave Sabo]

The woodpecker jig is awful. Too cumbersome and time consuming. And often burning on holes. If you want that type, this is infinitely better: - optimized for the Festool OF1010, 30mm bushings can be had for other routers.

https://www.taigatools.com/mft-router-template.html

USA shipments have been suspended for Covid , but these guys have them in NY:

https://www.toolnut.com/router-jig-for-festool-mft-style-holes.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwreT8BRDTARIsAJLI0KJ2hCXxX02SaXTZ5nRW frx37PMgZw38u4GRHUyYOfEoDrfA6J02tYIaAkyoEALw_wcB

Having 20mm and 3/4 holes sound better on paper, but out in the real world it's best to choose one and stick to it. 20mm seems to have more choice for inserts and accessories.

The Parf Guide system is quite versatile and accurate, although much slower than the jig above. It comes with everything you need. The holes produced are optimized for Parf Dogs and guys find other makes to often be really tight to insert into the drilled holes. Again, best if you stick with the Parf family.

[tim walker]

Dave, I dont understand your comment about the woodpecker tool being awful. I see very few if any differences between the Taiga and the WP. the WP adds initial alignment pins to insure the jig fits square to the first corner but that is the only difference I see.

[Matt Schroeder]

Tim,

I have the WP jig. I am still figuring it out. The first set of holes seem to work fine, but the next set, that references off of the first set, has some slop. The next set--even more. Either my router has too much runout, or I am not centering the bit in the collar and turning the router while using it, or something else I haven't figured out yet. I haven't tried too hard to figure it out yet (need to check runout, maybe try another router, basically play with it until I figure out what I am doing wrong). I like the idea of being able to make any size/shape work top I want with the jig once I figure out the tricks. However, if you get it I would try it on some scrap pieces before committing to making holes in your brand new (insert item here).

Matt

[Paul F Franklin]

That's one advantage, I think, of the parf jig over the step and repeat type jigs, like the WP or the Taig. Any error or slop in the process can get magnified with the step and repeat jigs on larger surfaces. This happens with the parf jig too, but because it starts out so long there are fewer step and repeat operations for any given size worksurface. If you're just clamping stuff, no biggie either way, but if you are relying on the hole pattern to square panels or doors or the like, then it matters more.

[Dave Sabo]

Dave, I dont understand your comment about the woodpecker tool being awful. I see very few if any differences between the Taiga and the WP. the WP adds initial alignment pins to insure the jig fits square to the first corner but that is the only difference I see.

Look closer.

Taiga uses a bushing that precisely fit the holes and a 20mm cutter. WP uses a collar that rides around the hole and uses a small bit that nibbles away the hole size you want. Besides having more chances for error built in, it takes considerable more time to cut holes with the WP. The ability to do both 20mm & 3/4" holes is great from a marketing perspective, not as valuable in the wild. At least for me. YMMV


This happens with the parf jig too, but because it starts out so long there are fewer step and repeat operations

Sure, there's room for error in all systems. Parf even had a bad batch of rulers a while back - and that made things really interesting for a lot of guys. The advantage of Parf is you can easily vary the spacing and layout of your hole pattern. But, it's more time consuming to setup and drill finished 20mm holes. By the time you've set up all the pieces and drilled your first set of pilot holes with the Parf, I've finished my entire top with a taiga. The parf system is optimized for Parf dogs and guys report other makes have to be pounded into the holes becasue the tolerances are so close. It also has really good dust management. Taiga relies on your router for that, and may , or may not be good.

Here's an in depth review of WP by an early adopter: summary - It's not really any good until you get a custom made collar and use a 20mm boring bit. Good luck getting a collar.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/last-day-to-order-woodpeckers-onetime-diy-mft-jig-(us)/msg549308/#msg549308

[Alan Lightstone]

I'm getting ready to do this (in about a month), and already own the Woodpeckers hole boring jig, and want 3/4" dog holes.

What are my other options then? Would it be beneficial to get a 3/4" ID bushing for the Woodpecker's jig? McMaster-Carr, amongst others, sells press-fit drill bushings.

[Alan Lightstone]

Aha!!!! Just found this issue.

The ID of the Woodpecker jig holes is 1.47". So you would need to get a bushing that's 0.75"ID and 1.47" OD, right?

Does anyone make custom bushings?

Would a nominal 1.5"ID drill bushing fit in the 1.47" hole?

[Dave Sabo]

Alan, I see the lightbulb just came on for you.

Any machine shop worth their salt can make , or modify a guide bush for you.

if WP were savvy, they’d make one to sell.

[Alan Lightstone]

Yup. I eventually purchased one from McMaster-Carr yesterday.

I really don't know any machine shops near here, but for a number of items could have used them. I need to change that.

Any suggestions for good drill bits to use?

This one from Amazon came up on someone's website as working great for this, but I wonder about clean cut with an Auger bit. I had thought of my Forstner bit as the best choice, but really don't know with this deep a cut. It could easily wander under the bushing.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009OAJRQ/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Paul F Franklin]

Any suggestions for good drill bits to use?


I used a high speed steel brad point from Lee Valley and it worked quite well.

[Matt Schroeder]

Alan,

Can you give an update on how the drill bushing method worked for you, and what bit you ended up using? I may go this route for future use of my jig.

Thanks,
Matt

[Alan Lightstone]

I would love to give you an update, Matt, but I've been waiting for the drill bushing from McMaster-Carr for 7 weeks now.

I just checked, and their website shows it should be available this week. We'll see.

Despite a million setbacks, I otherwise completed the workbench earlier this week.

I'll try it on some test pieces, then certainly let you know for real.

I'm still not sure what course I'm going to take regarding placement of holes. If I cover the workbench with them, I'll have a huge amount of holes in the top. But my present Sjobergs bench doesn't have enough. Plus the spacing on the Woodpeckers jig seems a little close.

Also, with the top now in place, and a plywood top/spacers between vertical elements between the drawers, using a drill bit will involve at least partially drilling into the plywood under the hard maple top. I can avoid that with a router, so there's that.

Any thoughts? Recommendations?

[Dave Sabo]

My thoughts are you should sell the WP to a collector and get a system that has components available.

And works better once you have them.

[Matt Schroeder]

Alan,

I built the Fine Woodworking "New Fangled Workbench" but felt the pipe clamps in the top well were too fussy to adjust all the time. So, I use the top well with many different drop in inserts, one of which is a 3/4" piece of MDF with holes drilled using the WP boring jig. This is the piece I referenced in an earlier post that was OK for the first set of holes but each successive set got a little looser. I still haven't played with my router to see if I can tighten up the hole spacing, but I figure the motion of moving the router leads to a greater likelihood of movement since a 1/1000 shift in the first set becomes 2/1000 in the second, 3/1000 in the third, etc. I think using the jig with a bushing and 3/4" drill bit would limit the shifting and lead to a more repeatable hole spacing. I like this drop in system since I can mount tools (like my mortiser) or other useful items (like a low profile planing stop) as shown in the attached photo in addition to a hole section with work holding options. I put three carts below the bench so long holdfasts are a little hard to use (have to roll out the carts). I bought the hole boring jig as I figured these pieces would get beat up over time and I wanted to be able to make more at will. I have the WP work holding system and really like it, but want to true up my grid before I make too many more of these pieces. Once I figure out how to make an accurate grid I will make a 2' by 4' section I can lay on top of the workbench for larger glue ups or as a sacrificial cutting station with my track saw, in addition to more drop in pieces of various sizes.

If I had a fixed top in which I was making holes I would start with the fewest number I thought I needed, and add more if a repeated need arose. It seems to me that a whole top of holes spaced to fill the WP boring jig would be too much, since I invariably drop screws through the holes I have, or drip glue into them, or brush piles of sawdust through them and end up wishing there weren't so many darn holes in the piece.

Matt

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[Alan Lightstone]

Alan,

... (snip)

If I had a fixed top in which I was making holes I would start with the fewest number I thought I needed, and add more if a repeated need arose. It seems to me that a whole top of holes spaced to fill the WP boring jig would be too much, since I invariably drop screws through the holes I have, or drip glue into them, or brush piles of sawdust through them and end up wishing there weren't so many darn holes in the piece.

Matt

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Matt:

I've been thinking the same thing. While I do like the versatility of holes anywhere I might need them, the sheer number of holes to be drilled / routed in my very large workbench top would be nuts...

[Will Blick]

The WP HB Jig was never designed for accuracy. It was designed simply for a means to drill a pattern of holes for work holding clamps as the FOG link discloses. If that is all u will use it for, the WP should suffice, or the other similar jigs.

I think only the Parf system will get you the accuracy if u will be using the holes to make cuts with a track saw. Once perfected, its quite the system, but be prepared, lots of bells n whistles u will buy after the fact making the total cost right up there with a cabinet saw ;)

I used the parf II, and did everything super careful... its very time consuming, its not perfect for sure, but I cant imagine it getting any better at this price point. There is videos that explain how to determine how square your holes came out. In my case, there is some holes I found which are very close to square. So I use those holes for cuts. My point is there is some variability in all these systems, but the Parf does the best job due to errors not magnifying, as you keep moving the starting point with the long sticks. I am sure when I do it again, I will better strategize the method of layout..

Agree with previous poster, 20mm is the bomb today, 3/4" is dated, with minimal accessories vs. 20mm as the MFT system originated in Europe. And the accessories are a field of their own and quite impressive, so glad I switched to the 20mm hole system. Check out Aximster web site and the FOG where they list all the links to accessories. Also agreed, the 20mm holes with parf are very exact, and the quality dogs u buy fit incredibly snug giving potential for a very accurate cutting station.

Also, consider how u will use the top, a hole is not required everywhere.
For others, consider the thickness of your top and how its supported. A flexy top further throws off square, so consider supporting the top ever 12" from below, AWAY from the holes of course....things have progressed a long way since the first MFT tables. IMO, not really a precision cutting station for fine ww, but with a solid MFT top built today with all the right accessories, your top can be both a precision cutting station and a work holding station. Quite the foot print saver as u can avoid a stationary saw.

Also, for those considering this... I do have a cabinet saw. But I cut down 8' sheets with track saw outside, not on my MFT top, as its not quite big enough. Not enough space to cut on cabinet saw. But where I find the MFT top excels is... cutting down mid size panels. For example, a 3'x3' to 4'x4' sheet is a bit cumbersome for a cabinet saw, at least for me, always working solo. You have to support the weight of the sheet before u push it through far enough when the table takes on the material weight... so u start out with u supporting about 60-70% of the weight of the panel and trying to align against a small fence area at the start. IN addition to supporting the panel weight, you have to focus on keeping the material FLAT on the table, up against the fence and forward force through the blade. Sure its doable (been done forever this way), but with limited space, and all the variables, a lot can go wrong, ruining the cut. The added 4' on both sides of the Cabinet saw makes for a large foot print for small shops. This is where my MFT top excels, lay sheet on top, put some dogs in for material, dogs for fence, mark material, drop down the track and its a simple and perfect cut every time. (marking can be avoided by inserting stop fences, such as incra fence, which is made to be removable with accessories) A cabinet saw is hard to beat for <18" wide cross cuts or <40" rips of thinner stock. But these can also be performed quite easily on mft top.

Food for thought, as sometimes we have so many options, deciding how best to set up a shop for your cutting and work holding needs can be confusing. I know I was confused, but through trial and error learned what worked best for my needs, which is a mix of hard woods and sheet goods.

[Alan Lightstone]

The WP HB Jig was never designed for accuracy. It was designed simply for a means to drill a pattern of holes for work holding clamps as the FOG link discloses. If that is all u will use it for, the WP should suffice, or the other similar jigs.

That really was all I was intending to use it for. When I use my track saw, I typically draw an accurate line and clamp the Festool track to it.



Agree with previous poster, 20mm is the bomb today, 3/4" is dated, with minimal accessories vs. 20mm as the MFT system originated in Europe. And the accessories are a field of their own and quite impressive, so glad I switched to the 20mm hole system. Check out Axminster web site and the FOG where they list all the links to accessories.

I've never heard this before. I was under the impression that there were far more 3/4" accessories compared to 20mm. Is this not true? I certainly see tons of 3/4" ones on Lee Valley's website.



Also, consider how u will use the top, a hole is not required everywhere.

I'm really just building mine for assembly of larger pieces. My present Sjoberg's workbench doesn't have enough holes, and they are inconveniently 1" to boot.

[Will Blick]

Then I would use the hole boring jigs, Parf system is way to time consuming and expensive.... its only benefit was precision for square, 45 deg, etc. And u cant use a router, PITA to drill each hole with hand drill. Many users here seem to praise the lower cost and smaller jig, at most, u have to move it a few more times vs. WP.

Well, their is lots of accessories for 3/4" for sure...but the new modern accessories are mostly 20mm... there is so much cool stuff... check out Axminster.com to get a look as they sell a lot of MFT accessories. I have ordered a lot from them despite them being in the UK. They ship like Amazon, I get it in a few days, amazing customer service.

The FOG has some stickies at the top of some forums with links to all the small companies that make accessories... check those out, u might get some ideas that interest you.

The clamps such as Bessey and similar, most can be mounted to both 3/4 or 20mm bottom plates that LV sells, so that is helpful either way. But many of the hold down clamps, MFT squares, dogs on Axminster site, which are just superb, mostly IIRC, are 20mm only. USA companies that make specialized MFT accessories, of course are also 20mm as well.

BTW trying to widen a 3/4 hole to 20mm is nearly impossible, don't ask me how I know this! Below is how I made my MFT top, holes for holding / cutting to the right and solid to the left. stuff falls through the holes, so they can be a nuisance sometimes when not in use, hence my comment about, u dont need holes everywhere, just big enough to hold your work.


So choose wisely so u don't regret the decision down the road.
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[Alan Lightstone]

OK. Let's think of a game plan to drill 20mm holes instead. And use the Woodpeckers jig that I have.

BTW, Fedex finally is shipping my 3/4" bushing. Only took McMaster-Carr two months to send it. :eek:

Would I have to find a 20mm drill bit (probably not too hard to find) and order another custom drill bushing from McMaster-Carr and wait another 2 months, or is the Woodpeckers jig and a router a reasonable approach? The OD of the holes on the WP jig is 1.47", so not possible to just order a bushing off the shelf.

[Jim Becker]

Will, that top on your Adjust-a-Bench is really nicely done!

Alan, 20mm tooling for a router or as a forstner is pretty easy to come by. The downside to the router tooling is that the most easily obtained 20mm cutter is the Freud, in my experience, and it only has a .25" shank. Forstner bits for a drill, however, common. I'm not familiar with that jig and what it uses.

[Will Blick]

Thx Jim... the rear Noden bench I use for outfeed and assembly. I made it super flat, just need to be careful when raising and lowering, a little on both sides vs. one feel swoop.
the MFT one is 1", consisting of two 1/2" HD MDF sheets pinned together at the corners, then drilled...
when the top gets destroyed, I just pull up the bottom 1/2" sheet and put it on the top, and re pin it. Still have the 1" stability, but getting a two-for-one top as for drilling. There is very few accessories that do NOT work with 1" vs. 3/4" thickness, the Festool clamps is ONE of them, which I dont use anyway, so many better options avail today.


The WP boring jig uses a 1/2" upcut spiral bit regardless of which size hole u want, 20mm or 3/4". The difference is the guide bushing. They offer it both the 20mm and 3/4 bushing, you plunge down and move the bushing around the edge of the Phenolic hole to expand the hole to final size. (a clever approach) So u would need the 20mm guide bushing... the kit was sold in 3 flavors (both, Imperial or Metric), which was kind of stupid if they don't stock the other bushings, as if someone wants to change from 3/4" to metric in the future, and WP does not sell the metric bushing, kinda out of luck... check with WP, hopefully they have the bushing u desire.

their video will make it clear...

https://youtu.be/T6nfTo2uRBc?t=39

[Jim Becker]

Sounds like a great setup, Will. And thanks for the jig explanation...spiral makes sense in the context.

[Alan Lightstone]

The WP boring jig uses a 1/2" upcut spiral bit regardless of which size hole u want, 20mm or 3/4". The difference is the guide bushing. They offer it both the 20mm and 3/4 bushing, you plunge down and move the bushing around the edge of the Phenolic hole to expand the hole to final size. (a clever approach) So u would need the 20mm guide bushing... the kit was sold in 3 flavors (both, Imperial or Metric), which was kind of stupid if they don't stock the other bushings, as if someone wants to change from 3/4" to metric in the future, and WP does not sell the metric bushing, kinda out of luck... check with WP, hopefully they have the bushing u desire.

their video will make it clear...

https://youtu.be/T6nfTo2uRBc?t=39

Will, fortunately I bought the combination 20mm and 3/4" WP jig, so I have that 20mm bushing. I think I will go that route. Of course, the 3/4" bushing that will arrive by Monday is now officially a waste of money, but oh well.

Now, my latest problem is having to build a jig to center the 20mm holes on the moveable vise jaw. The WP spacing is all wrong for that. So the sage continues...

[Will Blick]

for a vice, u typically only need two holes
draw a line which is concentric with the holes on the bench which extends to the vice.
make a cross hair at 90deg to that line in the area u want the hole.
center the WP hole around that cross hair, clamp down the jig, and make a hole the same way
do the same on the other side of the vice...
Maybe your application is more complex, but that's how I have done it...

[Jim Becker]

Alan, plan the start of your grid so its supportive of your vice needs if you can. Sometimes adjusting the size and position of a vice can be helpful with that, too, depending on the type/design.