Looking for my first jointer

[Don Lamothe]

I’m shopping for my first Jointer and the options/differences are mind numbing! I’d appreciate any suggestions you guys (gals) have to offer. I have a Dewalt 735 planer and now I need an 8” jointer that will do the job. I don’t want to buy cheap but I’m wondering if I can keep the cost around $1000-$1200. It looks like the Grizzly’s cost less than Jet, Powermatic and Rikon for what looks like very similar models. They look like they were all made by the same company with different colors and names put on them. Am I only getting what I pay for with the Grizzly or is Grizzly a good choice? Here are some options to consider and I don’t know if they are worth spending extra for; Helical vs. spiral vs. straight cutter-heads, number of inserts on the cutter-heads (54 vs. 36) Dovetailed vs. Parallelogram Table adjustment, 3HP vs. 2HP, etc… I’m sure there are other things to consider but I’m new to all of this. Thanks in advance for you input!

[Matt Day]

Grizzly parallelogram 8”, head is up to you but if you’re jointing curly stuff a helical head (any of them, grizzly brand is fine) will work.

You should get a helical head on the planer too though, since material goes through the planer last.

[Jim Becker]

Consider buying your "second" jointer first...put those "nice to have" things in the specifications. Rebuying later is more expensive than making the better investment up front, even if you have to wait a little longer to fund it.

[Lisa Starr]

I did without a jointer for years.

I had two methods for "jointing" the edge. The first was a jig for my table saw that you clamped the piece of wood to and then ran the jig along the fence. The drawback was the length of pieces I could process. The second method is to use my track saw to straight line rip the first edge. That is only limited by the amount of track you have.

I "jointed" the face with my 15" planer and a sled.

Since I like working with wider lumber and have a relatively small shop (500 sq ft) I was loathe to purchase a jointer though it would make my life easier! Just this year I finally made the decision to purchase a combo j/p. I'll be receiving the Hammer A3-31 soon and then be selling the 15" 4-post planer. Yes, I'm giving up 3" of planing capacity, but I'm gaining a jointer.

Like Jim mentioned, buy your "2nd jointer" first. Could you consider selling your lunchbox planer and purchasing a combo machine with larger capacities? The Grizzly J/P is less than a $1000 more than the jointer alone and you'd be getting increased capacity. Just food for thought.

[glenn bradley]

As already stated, buy your last jointer first. It would be interesting to see a poll of how many of us actually managed to do that. Certainly the folks like you who get to benefit from our mistakes would be the majority of those people. I've run a Grizzly G0490X since 2008. I was lucky, it was only my second jointer thanks to threads like this one. I cheaped out on my first jointer because I just knew I could make one work where others had failed (sound familiar to anyone?). I learned the hard ($$$) way and came up with this list of gotta-haves:

- Parallelogram beds
- Insert head
- Long beds
- Tall fence

The Grizzly G0490X checked all these boxes and had a long history of satisfied customers . . . even longer if you count that it is a clone of the Delta DJ-20. The value of the items on this list will vary with how you use a jointer. If you only edge joint boards, there are a lot of ways to do that. Face jointing can be done with a planer sled and your DeWalt; I got by like this between selling my inadequate jointer and buying the Grizzly.

If you will mill lumber with complex or reversing grain patterns often, use the fence at angles other than just 90 degrees and make a variety of types of furniture, the G0490X probably still offers the best bang for the buck. Having them in stock seems to be a challenge right now and there are alternate models with similar specs.

I can only say that if the first two items on my list weren't present I didn't even slow down to look. After using the machine for many years I have learned that the second two items on my list weren't really optional either :D. Good luck with your search.

[Alex Zeller]

About 4 months ago I got my first jointer. I assumed that a jointer and a planer were a pair and it really didn't matter which I got first. So I got a planer (figuring I could always make a jig to use it to surface the face of a board. Since getting the jointer I've found I use it about 4 times as much as the planer. My point is don't go too cheap. I also own plenty of Grizzly tools and over all I've had have positive experiences with them.

I've seen a few used 8" jointers around here in the last few months for around the $800 range for an 8". Most are either imported Deltas or older US make Powermatic model 60 jointers. It's very rare to see a parallelogram style one. It's just as rare for one to have the helical carbide cutter head. Unless you can wait my math tells me that you will be paying $1200 for a used dovetail jointer and upgrading the head. I kind of was leery about ending up with a jointer I had to fiddle with and possibly shim to get it to work right. At the time Grizzly was selling the G0490X for around $1450 with the segmented cutter head so that was the direction I was set on (it looks like the price has gone up). Not being in a hurry I was just waiting to see if a 10% off sale came up.

While waiting a almost new Powermatic 8" parallelogram jointer with the mobile base and helical head showed up on Facebook. While it was more than I wanted to spend I didn't blink an eye. I didn't try to negotiate a lower price (mainly because it was a 4 hour drive from my house and I didn't want to get almost there and get a text saying he sold it). I got in contact with him and made arrangements to pick it up as soon as possible. My point is that if you are going to buy used right now you can't hesitate. Someone else will be happy you did. It worked for me but if it was a week earlier or later I'm sure I would have lost it to someone else. If you aren't in the position to jump on a deal then I would look at new.

Right now I think the Grizzly G0858 looks to be the best deal. But when I was looking I didn't read up on it as I was looking at the G0490X. Being made in Taiwan (vs the G0490X being made in China) should be a good thing. It says it has a built in mobile base but unlike the G0490X it can't be seen. Even if it doesn't, with the sale going on right now, it's still works out to about the same price as the G0490X once you buy a base for it (if you need it).

[Tony Shea]

I did without a jointer for years.

I had two methods for "jointing" the edge. The first was a jig for my table saw that you clamped the piece of wood to and then ran the jig along the fence. The drawback was the length of pieces I could process. The second method is to use my track saw to straight line rip the first edge. That is only limited by the amount of track you have.

I "jointed" the face with my 15" planer and a sled.

Since I like working with wider lumber and have a relatively small shop (500 sq ft) I was loathe to purchase a jointer though it would make my life easier! Just this year I finally made the decision to purchase a combo j/p. I'll be receiving the Hammer A3-31 soon and then be selling the 15" 4-post planer. Yes, I'm giving up 3" of planing capacity, but I'm gaining a jointer.

Like Jim mentioned, buy your "2nd jointer" first. Could you consider selling your lunchbox planer and purchasing a combo machine with larger capacities? The Grizzly J/P is less than a $1000 more than the jointer alone and you'd be getting increased capacity. Just food for thought.

I am also receiving an A3-31 soon as well. It actually just landed and is a little stuck in customs right now. This will be a huge upgrade from having no jointer and a 13" lunchbox planer. I have been hand planing wood flat and sometimes just thicknessing all by hand if I have just a few pieces. I am also in the camp of buying your 2nd jointer first and saving the extra $ to do so. I can't tell you how much I've learned from doing all the hand work that I've done for the last 5 years woodworking.

[Robert London]

1000-1200 gets you a 6 inch jointer. 1500-1800 gets you an 8.

Lots of the helical - spiral 8 inch jointers are $2000 and up.

For the money, it’s hard to beat grizzly as they sell direct. They currently have an 8 inch spiral cutter on sale. Both the dovetail and parallelogram, Taiwan made.

You’ll never regret spending $500 more on a spiral 8 inch over a smaller machine with straight knives. Best money ever spent.

[William Chain]

Whereabouts are you? I am awaiting the arrival of an A3-41 and I will be looking to unload my DJ-20 in the next couple months. It's cherry, maybe we can work something out.

[Phillip Mitchell]

You should really consider buying used if you’re budget conscious (who isn’t?) It’s the same as buying a new car. You never get that depreciation back after buying new.

It’s typically nowhere as convenient as pushing “buy now” online and having it show up at your door with a lift gate truck, but there is major value to be had in looking for well-kept, high quality used machinery and there’s plenty of it out there if you know where to look, don’t mind driving a bit to retrieve it, and can deal with moving/unloading it into your shop.

Just as an example, my first jointer was a used Delta Invicta DJ-20 (8” straight knives) in great shape that came from a 90 year old woodworker about 3 hours away who was selling everything because he could no longer see well enough to work in his shop. I gave him $700 for it (and ended up purchasing a good bit of smaller items / nice lumber from him as well.) The DJ-20 was great for what I needed in a first jointer and used it for several years. I ended up selling it to a friend many years later for $800 and we were both happy.

Eventually I began to run into the limitations of the size of an 8” machine, even though it was a long bed 8” and an opportunity materialized and I bought one of my dream machines, an Oliver 166 BD. 12” wide Terminus head, beds are nearly 9’ long, 5 HP 3 phase motor, weighs 2k pounds, excellent working / cosmetic condition. It came from the Penland Craft School woodshop as they were apparently upgrading some “older, less safe machines” machines with shiny new Powermatic stuff and needed it gone by a certain date, which worked out in my favor. I bought the machine for $1250, drove an hour to get it, spent another 300-400 for a VFD for phase conversion / wiring, had to figure out how to move it safely, but it’s a very capable machine that I don’t see myself outgrowing for many, many years and would only upgrade if a smoking deal came to me for a 16-20” machine that was semi local. I could probably sell the Oliver for $2-3k if I was patient and wanted to let it go, as I have watched machinery sales nationally for several years.

Point being, strongly consider buying high quality used and be patient for the right machine / deal and you can really stretch your budget 2-3x or more over a comparably equipped new machine. I would take an older, better built jointer with flat tables and a good fence over a new Taiwanese clone that you have no way of checking quality control on until it arrives in your shop any day, but’s that’s just me.

[Scott Bernstein]

Agree with everything that’s been said. I think that 8” is about as small as most hobby woodworkers would find useful/practical. I started with a 6” grizzly and it was too small - I very quickly outgrew it. Upsized to a 16” Hammer A3-41 combo machine (helical cutter) and couldnt be happier. I smile every time I use it. Totally worth the wait and the money. Unfortunately these are very expensive and not for everyone (or every budget). If you are buying used, i personally would hold out for a 10-12” machine. A 12” Grizzly would be a very nice machine. I was very happy with the operation and build quality of my grizzly 6” jointer (for the money)...just too small.

SB

[Myk Rian]

Grizzly parallelogram 8”, head is up to you but if you’re jointing curly stuff a helical head (any of them, grizzly brand is fine) will work.

You should get a helical head on the planer too though, since material goes through the planer last.
You don't need a parallelogram jointer. That's just more cost to you.
Straight blades are fine as the jointer is not the final finish.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Just throwing another opinion in. I have a 16" Felder jointer/planer, it's a great machine. When I got it, I sold my 6" Jet jointer and DW planer. That was 10 years ago or so, and over that period I've noticed a few things.

First, I don't do much face jointing. When I do, the Felder is awesome, but I can completely avoid that need by just buying surfaced lumber. Second, glueline rips are good enough off the slider saw, but they are not quite as perfect as a jointed edge. Third, I'm a bit lazy, so switching my combo machine to jointer mode is sometimes something I just work around doing. It's not that big of a deal to switch it, but like I said, I'm lazy.

To that end, a DJ15 popped up on a local school auction a few weeks ago and I bought it. I have already used it more for edge jointing because it's convenient, than I'd used the Felder in probably the last 6 months. When objectively thinking about it, edge glue ups are common in most woodworking. Processing rough stock isn't so much. Standard thought is 8" minimum on jointers, but I'd argue that. I say instead to just buy the longest tables that you can get and focus on edge jointing. You'll want something wider than 8" for rough stock prep anyhow, so in my opinion, the difference between 6" and 8" is irrelevant, table length is much more important.

[Jim Becker]

Steve, I'm curious about your comment about face jointing. I've yet to find very many pieces of surfaced lumber that are actually flat. That's why I place such a very high value on face jointing and the capacity of my own J/P) Just how flat is the material that you are sourcing? Much of the surfaced material out there is thicknessed both sides without ever seeing a jointer.

[Bob Riefer]

If you decide to go used (as I did, and it turned out great after a bunch of help from the guys here, including Matt D. above... thanks again!!!)...

Evaluating used equipment is hard if you aren't yet an expert on that tool. I would say that most gain expertise by either assembling a new tool or repairing an existing or old tool - thereby seeing the inner workings and learning how it all operates.

For example, I thought I had an idea about table saws, and then had to do major surgery on my old unisaw clone... by the time that saga was done, I learned so much more, and realized that I'm still farrrrr from expert, but now know way more things to look/listen for if I were to buy used in the future.

Short of having the expertise yourself, I would suggest trying to bring someone with you if possible. When I recently bought my DJ-20 used, I luckily was able to bring a buddy with me that had the tools and know-how to ensure I was buying a tool with flat and coplanar tables. That was where our collective know-how ended... thus the help I needed from this forum later. Ideally, we would have walked in well-armed to think through all the details. Luckily, all ended well in that case - lighter a couple learning curve dollars, a reset to my ego, a TON learned during a somewhat frustrating setup and tuning period, and a nicely working 8" jointer that ought to give me decades of service.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Another happy Grizzly G490X owner here. It was about 1/2 the price of the Powermatic equivalent at the time I bought mine.

At the time I bought mine there were several threads here at SMC where owners of the Grizzly's were experience loose pulleys. So when mine arrived before I even turned it on, I removed the set screws from the pulleys, put a little blue Loc-Tite thread locker (removeable type thread locker) on them, reinstalled and tightened them. I haven't had a problem with mine.

[Ron Selzer]

Whereabouts are you? I am awaiting the arrival of an A3-41 and I will be looking to unload my DJ-20 in the next couple months. It's cherry, maybe we can work something out.

Damn you are getting exactly what I want. just need to add a master bedroom addition so I can expand the basement shop so I would have room for it. I tried very hard to figure out how to fit a 16" combo in the basement. Just not willing to down size the SawStop Pcs to a 24" rip machine to fit it in. The addition would let me have both a 16" combo, a slider and a walkout entrance. Only thing standing in the way is about 80-100k plus the tool cost. Paid the house off last year, retire any time I want. Would have to work another 10-15 years to pay addition off. Have a new Shop Fox " 8" segmented head in the crate in storage that hopefully will fit in place of a 6" Jet I have used since 1988.
Enjoy your new A3-41, i am jealous
Ron

[John C Bush]

I agree with buying your next jointer first. I have a buddy with a band saw mill and have access to lots of freebie offcuts and rough dimensioned stock. I finally upgraded to a 12" Griz (G0609X-spiral-84")
and 20" Griz planer(1033x) and now my favorite part of WWing is milling (free) stock. I made 8' and 5' torsion boxes to manage stock wider than 12" with the planer but could frequently use a 16" jointer.
Having the capacity to mill my own stock helps me consider doing projects that I would have second thoughts on if bargain wood weren't at hand. Just a hobbiest and I have helped non WWing friends get interested in building projects so that has been a bonus as well. Sooooo-I suggest considering how you can source your lumber and what type of projects you look forward to building. Machine specifics--
insert head and the longest and widest bed you can get. Old iron is nice but hard to find with insert heads and new should be good to go out of the box. The Griz was and has been flawless since. Good luck shopping.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve, I'm curious about your comment about face jointing. I've yet to find very many pieces of surfaced lumber that are actually flat. That's why I place such a very high value on face jointing and the capacity of my own J/P) Just how flat is the material that you are sourcing? Much of the surfaced material out there is thicknessed both sides without ever seeing a jointer.

Jim, I buy S3S generally. It's all processed at my supplier on a Weinig, it comes in dead flat. Their machine is superior my Felder and I'm happy to pay the small fee for S3S on the common woods we get. Some oak was easy to get to, that's what's in the pic. The one with my keys on it is the new Weinig, the curly is their old machine. New is better, but the old one handled that curl just fine. I always buy S3S for red and white oak, poplar, and alder. Walnut sometimes not. The more exotic stuff is pretty much whatever I can get, but it's usually S3S to.

443768 443767

[Jim Becker]

You are truly lucky to have a supplier that can provide that level of quality.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

You are truly lucky to have a supplier that can provide that level of quality.

That is true. Reasonable delivery rates to. Not many of us out here, but I definitely recommend Wood Stock Supply if you live anywhere remotely close to Rapid City SD.

[glenn bradley]

You are truly lucky to have a supplier that can provide that level of quality.


Agreed. Alas, I am no where near SD unless San Diego counts :D. The S3S that I get locally may or may not be in a usable state, Thinner stock that they have pre-prepared for drawer boxes or kitchen and bath parts are generally usable for those purposes although not for something like a huntsboard. I generally mill everything as joinery and assemblies go together so nicely when everything is aligned and true. I also tend to buy more than I need as I have to travel a ways to get material. This means material can hang around for a year so even if usable on day one, by day 300 this may not be so :).

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Agreed. Alas, I am no where near SD unless San Diego counts :D. The S3S that I get locally may or may not be in a usable state, Thinner stock that they have pre-prepared for drawer boxes or kitchen and bath parts are generally usable for those purposes although not for something like a huntsboard. I generally mill everything as joinery and assemblies go together so nicely when everything is aligned and true. I also tend to buy more than I need as I have to travel a ways to get material. This means material can hang around for a year so even if usable on day one, by day 300 this may not be so :).

Shipping may be higher Glenn... :) I'm actually surprised that there isn't similar quality supply in your's and Jim's areas.

[Myles Moran]

Another happy grizzly owner. G0656x here. Table was flat within .005 according to my straight edge, and the sprial cutterhead has been good enough for me (though I don't run much stuff with crazy figure). Sure a powermatic might be nicer, I could see where the fence could use a bit more fit and finish. But at no point have I been dissatisfied with the quality of machine I bought. If someone broke in to my house and stole it (RIP their back) I'd order another one right away.

For me the 8" has been great because everything I buy usually falls into the 6-8" range - I don't want to pay the 8"+ premium for the work I do. But I'll agree with others about the benefits of a wider jointer, it just depends if you'll use wide stock or not.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I have a G0857 (8", 4 straight knives, parallelogram table). It's pretty close to your price range.

The build quality is fairly good. Tables and fence were within 0.003" of flat when I got it. Since you asked about features I'll give my thoughts briefly:

Parallelogram vs Dovetail way

The main advantage of a parallelogram mechanism is ease of adjusting the tables to be coplanar. There are adjustment cams you turn with a socket, one on each corner of each table, and you can bring each corner up or down as required. With a dovetail way you adjust by inserting shims, which seems far more tedious.

One downside to the common 8" parallelogram jointers is that they use levers for raising/lowering the tables, instead of handwheels. The lever is fine on the infeed table, but I would rather have a handwheel on the outfeed to make fine adjustments as the knives wear. Pretty tricky to move the table 0.002" with just the lever.

If a dovetail jointer is delivered with the tables in-tune (which seems fairly common judging by reviews- though mine needed a little tweaking to get it perfect). then there's no downside. It's only when you need to make adjustments that the mechanism comes into play.

Straight Knives vs Insert/Spiral

I went with the straight knife version since I had never had much of an issue with tearout on my lunchbox planer, and it was about $500 cheaper. For the most part tear-out has not been a big issue, the worst I've experienced was with a recent run of Sapele (ribbon-grain) but I was able to mitigate it by taking a very light cut. If you leave a bit of thickness on your part, you can run both faces through the planer to get rid of tearout. For some reason my DeWalt lunchbox planer is almost immune to tearout.

With sharp knives I think you get a little better surface quality (brighter) with straight knives, assuming no tearout. Though this is not a very big deal, since you will inevitably sand or handplane the jointer ripples out prior to finishing.

The bigger difference probably lies in the maintenance. It takes me about 30 minutes to change and set the knives on the 4-knife head. It can take a lot longer until you get the hang of it. If you get a knick, you need to slide a knife over and re-set it to match the others. With the spiral head you just rotate one or two inserts and tighten the screws.

If the straight knives don't chip or get knicked, they last quite a while for hobby use. Probably at least a year or two. However the factory knives on the G0857 were very chip prone, bad enough that it wasn't worth it to try to reset the knives just to get 10 minutes of use before noticing knicks again. I replaced these with a set of Amana T1 knives, which have been much better. Almost a year on these and no knicks yet.

Last point- loudness. Apparently spiral heads are quieter during cutting. Could be, but the loudest aspect of my jointer is the air-raid siren created by the straight knives when the dust collector is running. It is extremely loud, louder than the lunchbox planer. With the dust collector off its a fairly quiet machine. I am not sure if spiral heads are better, but if so, that might be the thing that would push me towards one rather than concerns about tearout.