plywood pricing crazy

[eugene thomas]

i went to menards today and was going to buy 4 sheets of osb. around $25 sheet for7/16". was told another side effect of the corons...

[glenn bradley]

About the same out here.

[Rob Damon]

Checked online at Home Depot on Monday night for 7/16" OSB 4x8 it was listed for $9.98. When I went up the next morning it was over $24. Normally this modulates during the year from 4.98 to 14.98 depending on the season.
Plywood had jumped too.
2x4x8 that used to be 2.98 went to $5.48.

Mill closures and a lot of DIY projects because people are working from home or out of work and doing home projects is what I was told.

[eugene thomas]

crazy part of trip was i picked up some cherry plywood i special order . charged me $13 packing and when unwrapped at home had 1/2" osb plywood on bottom of stack.

[Dave Anderson NH]

One other major factor in lumber pricing is hurricane repair increasing demand.

[Mark Bolton]

Covid is the main culprit. The residential blip while everyone was off coupled with large reduction in production due to the same reason has stripped supply and driven prices through the roof. Its not just lumber, was at appliance parts shop the other day they are a month or more out on parts that use to come out of distribution in a day, electrical supply is having issues with everything from breakers to bulbs to wire. Its all being blamed on covid. Everyone speaks to large stock orders that show up 20% fulfilled and then dribble in for a month or two.

Read an industry article fhe other day that demand tapered drastically as reopening started but prices are slated to remain high for several more months.

The profiteers are hard at work stripping the consumer yet again. Everyone on the supply side that I speak with are saying they are having record years in profits due to the prices.

[Jim Becker]

One other major factor in lumber pricing is hurricane repair increasing demand.

This is very true...and folks tend to trash the panels once the storm passes and they buy more when they need to board up for the next storm a few weeks later...that combined with manufacturing challenges isn't being kind to consumer prices.

[Lamar Keeney]

An interesting take on lumber. Worth watching through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PsZQqwnjg4&feature=emb_logo

[Richard Coers]

You are just lucky you don't have to buy plexiglass. Walking down the aisle at Menards, they had 4'x4'x 1/8" acrylic. $39.99. Probably as rare as Clorox wipes right now, so you have to pay!

[Matthew Hills]

And the fires across western states doesn't help anything.
Youtube recently offered up this materials sticker shock video from a garage builder -- a lot of materials 2-3x what they were in early spring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8E-VFrFBuY&t=2s

Matt

[jared herbert]

I built a new small deck and steps to get in the main entrance to our house. It took a month to get the trex. Now I want to put on aluminum railings on the steps and deck. Order times are two to three months. Guess a lot of do it your sellers are building decks

[Jon Endres]

I should have bought OSB when it was cheap. Need another 12 sheets to finish the inside of my garage loft. At $25+ a sheet, it's not happening soon. I did find an oddball product though that should work even better, for a wall surface, it's 11/16" high-density-fiberboard (HDF, like MDF) faces and a 3-ply wood core. Should countersink screws and take paint nicely. And it's $20 a sheet. I'll use scraps and leftovers for shop fixtures etc.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Agree with what Matt said about the fires. Probably that, hurricanes, and the rona breaking the supply chain. Suspect that the suppliers were expecting a much smaller year when corona started so production was ramped down but now it is fairly obvious that demand is actually booming. Most of the lumber materials we use have doubled in price in the last few months.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Most of the fires are in areas that aren't lumber producers. As for the OSB, has anyone been told there was a limit? If not, then it's not supply and demand, but rather rip off itus. Charge more just because you can. Remember the new trade deal with our northern neighbors also affect prices. Same thing happened at start of first Iraq war. Uncle Sam was shopping for materials for war effort, so everything went up. Gulf hurricanes didn't help either. Think of the poor smucks who didn't have replacement value insurance. Fixed value insurance won't cover the cost of having houses rebuilt with today's prices.

[Mike Wilkins]

When I worked in insurance claims, I always herd the repair firms and contractors explain the materials prices change with market conditions, weather events, financing interest rates. Despite the current pandemic situation, new home building has not seemed to slow down at all.

[Mo Ghotbi]

My supplier in Northern California says the tariffs on Canadian plywood have affected domestic prices as well - mills in the pacific northwest have increased their prices accordingly.

[mike stenson]

My supplier in Northern California says the tariffs on Canadian plywood have affected domestic prices as well - mills in the pacific northwest have increased their prices accordingly.

Of course, the price going up.. if the market will bear it, is the new price. It'll be interesting to see if the price drops back, or not.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

My supplier in Northern California says the tariffs on Canadian plywood have affected domestic prices as well - mills in the pacific northwest have increased their prices accordingly.

Lumber has doubled to, not just plywood.

[Curt Harms]

When I worked in insurance claims, I always herd the repair firms and contractors explain the materials prices change with market conditions, weather events, financing interest rates. Despite the current pandemic situation, new home building has not seemed to slow down at all.

Historically low mortgage interest rates probably have something to do with home demand. I use traffic levels as an imperfect measure of how economic activity is doing. The published numbers have a 3 month (I think) lag. When Corona virus first hit driving on a Tuesday morning at 9 a.m. when traffic should be pretty heavy was like driving on a Sunday morning at 6 a.m. there was virtually no traffic. I would say traffic levels now are probably 80% or more of what they were pre- Corona virus. I think traffic levels may not rise to where they were due to work-at-home cutting rush hour traffic and online shopping. We spend very little time in stores except for groceries and household necessities.

[Jerry Olexa]

Yes, I went to buy some routine 4X4sPT and 2X4PT from the BORG for a small yard project and ended up paying more than double what I expected. These are trying times...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Historically low mortgage interest rates probably have something to do with home demand. I use traffic levels as an imperfect measure of how economic activity is doing. The published numbers have a 3 month (I think) lag. When Corona virus first hit driving on a Tuesday morning at 9 a.m. when traffic should be pretty heavy was like driving on a Sunday morning at 6 a.m. there was virtually no traffic. I would say traffic levels now are probably 80% or more of what they were pre- Corona virus. I think traffic levels may not rise to where they were due to work-at-home cutting rush hour traffic and online shopping. We spend very little time in stores except for groceries and household necessities.

Interesting way to measure the economy Curt, I think you may be pretty accurate on a local or regional scale. Out here in flyover country,where we didn't shut anything down, I've never seen so much traffic. Houses are not even advertised before they sell. I see a lot of Uhauls on the roads, and the local lots are full of them. In fact, I heard that rent for a Uhaul from here to California is nearly free because they need them returned for the next family headed this way. It used to be rare to see a NY or Cali license plate here, but they are common now. I wonder if we're both seeing permanent changes or just temporary.

[Marc Fenneuff]

I put a new roof on my house in 2017. Menards was my supplier. At that time I needed 20 sheets of 1/2" OSB and the price was right around $10/sheet. Imagine my surprise when I needed a couple sheets for a different project this summer and found out those same sheets were now $25. 3/4" ACX plywood, which I love for shelves and various projects, had jumped from $29 last year to $40 this September. I bought another sheet last week and it was up to $45. Fortunately prices for MDF and melamine, which I use occasionally, have not changed. SPF lumber has gone up a bit, maybe from $3/ea to $4 for a 2X4X8, but that's still 25%.

[Jim Becker]

The traveling rep for my plywood supplier recently stopped by to say hello. Part of that conversation did indicate that they are having to execute on a price increase "real soon now" because their costs are bouncing up. This is coming on the heels of no longer subsidizing the credit card hit...something that those of us with very small operations who cannot qualify for normal commercial terms have to pay because sometimes cash flow requires using the card rather than writing a check. So I'm guessing I'm looking at about 5-8% increase this year, although it always gets passed on when I'm doing estimates/costing projects. That said, I think that regular building materials have taken a much higher hit as evidenced by comments in this thread...supply, demand, tariffs and transportation are all contributing to that.

[Dave Sabo]

have to pay because sometimes cash flow requires using the card rather than writing a check.

Jim , you should be taking a deposit for work, or a larger deposit, so that you never find yourself in that position. Your customers need to fund your operation, especially their portion of it.

I understand the need/appeal for c.c. , but that expense still needs to be picked up by the customer.

[johnny means]

Jim , you should be taking a deposit for work, or a larger deposit, so that you never find yourself in that position. Your customers need to fund your operation, especially their portion of it.

I understand the need/appeal for c.c. , but that expense still needs to be picked up by the customer.

If only it were that simple. Unfortunately, lack of credit is not a billable expense.

[Jim Becker]

Jim , you should be taking a deposit for work, or a larger deposit, so that you never find yourself in that position. Your customers need to fund your operation, especially their portion of it.

I understand the need/appeal for c.c. , but that expense still needs to be picked up by the customer.

You are making assumptions. I do take substantial deposits. And the customer does pay any fees because of how I price work. The issue is convenience and I frankly hate writing checks and I also hate paying a fee to use a credit card. There is also a lag between when an ACH deposit hits Quicken and when it gets to the business bank account...unless...you got it...I pay a fee for immediate credit. So I use the CC to order the material so I can get to work and get paid sooner since writing a check might be risky given the deposit delay. This is the reality of many small businesses, Dave. Terms with suppliers to avoid fees require references with other suppliers but you can't provide them because they all require references from other suppliers. And I Have a personal credit score in the mid 800s. Doesn't matter...even a personal guarantee doesn't override the need for business references.

But this is far afield from the original intent of this thread...the rising cost of materials due to market conditions, etc.

[Thomas Colson]

What happened is, during the mostly-nationwide lockdown in the spring, everyone decided that after 2 weeks of zoom calls, that they were a woodworker. This graph supports that (https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lumber#:~:text=Lumber%20is%20expected%20to%20trade ,410.05%20in%2012%20months%20time.). The local place I go to for walnut and maple and stuff can't keep anything in stock. Not even exotics. I had a line to get 600 BF of kiln dried walnut (a lifetime supply for me) for 3000$ a few months ago, apparently he was playing multiple buyers and it went for 6k. Power co was doing right of way clearing and had a line of pickup trucks following them. They loved it, they didn't even have to cut the logs. Wood availability and prices is crazy. The sticker shock at the BORG reminds of literally the weekend after we had a major fire that burned 2500 homes, all their dimensional lumber had doubled, I still had the receipt in my pocket from the previous weekend supporting my call out to the store manager on that. Thinking it's worth the trouble to get those oak and hickory logs my buddy keeps nagging me about getting off his property. Saw mill guy charges 600$ for a 1000 bf, he'll cut anyway you want and anywhere. My firewood guy has an idea on where a bunch of 30" walnut logs are.

https://nebldgsupply.com/strong-demand-and-tight-supply-have-caused-lumber-prices-to-soar/
https://www.nahb.org/news-and-economics/housing-economics/National-Statistics/Framing-Lumber-Prices
https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/in-depth/splintered-lumber-market-causing-shortages-major-price-increases

[Mark Bolton]

You are making assumptions. I do take substantial deposits. And the customer does pay any fees because of how I price work. The issue is convenience and I frankly hate writing checks and I also hate paying a fee to use a credit card. There is also a lag between when an ACH deposit hits Quicken and when it gets to the business bank account...unless...you got it...I pay a fee for immediate credit. So I use the CC to order the material so I can get to work and get paid sooner since writing a check might be risky given the deposit delay. This is the reality of many small businesses, Dave. Terms with suppliers to avoid fees require references with other suppliers but you can't provide them because they all require references from other suppliers. And I Have a personal credit score in the mid 800s. Doesn't matter...even a personal guarantee doesn't override the need for business references.

But this is far afield from the original intent of this thread...the rising cost of materials due to market conditions, etc.

In all honesty Jim, I have pretty much never found a vendor that didnt offer terms with very little issue of reference even though its on their forms. That "credit reference" thing is pretty much a hold over from the 80's and most vendors now (if your any type of reasonable customer) know that if you ask for terms and they balk your going to flush them down the toilet. Most just upon asking will extend more terms than you will ever need.

That said, I have now found myself irritated when I have to deal with a vendor with terms because I want to pay with a card (my business card) that gives me cash back. More and more Im finding vendors that either dont have online payment portals and its still end of month check payments (USPS).

I do still make a lot of check payments especially to local vendors and certain vendors I dont want to burden with the fees and costs associated with merchant accounts and card processing. The big guys, I could care less, let them deal with the CC costs and I get my cashback bonus on everything.

I have always been very reluctant to get in bed with Intuit/Quicken (we use QBPro).. my banks delay for funds in my account from photo/mobile deposit (I cant tell you the last time I was in the bank physically) is 1 day. I photo deposit right now, 10am the cash is there. And if its not anything will clear against the pending deposit though we are never cut that close. Perhaps because Im dealing with a very small local bank (20 year relationship) who knows. This is a place where employees have shown up with a check I forgot to sign and the ring me to make sure its ok and the guy gets his money.

[Jim Becker]

There is a lot of good in what you write, Mark. I pretty much get ACH via Quicken invoice from customers as I'm not a walk-in business and most are not around the corner anyway. It's rare we meet face to face until "delivery" time, other than a few folks that I do subcontract work for. Clients pretty much pay immediately so the transaction timing is fine. I'm just dealing with the "float" that Intuit takes for no fee deposits, that's all. It's not really a problem...I just like to complain about it. :) They provide a lot of value from an accounting system standpoint and my accountant is tied in directly which streamlines things at tax time or if I need advice about an unusual transaction, such as how to properly handle an SBA grant/forgiven advance as happened this year. If I really, really needed the money fast, I can either pay 1% to them, do what I need to do to get a check and deposit it (and wait for it to clear) or get cash. I pretty much don't accept cards other than on ETSY for small stuff which is always being shipped out and the fee is the same no matter how the end customer pays. I"m sure I could press things with my sheet goods supplier relative to terms but my volume is so low, it's not worth it. Again...I just like to complain about is. :)

[Robert London]

I noticed that as well on big box basic pine and building materials. Assuming it was economy related with current issues.

i live in Durham NC, and there’s a place a few miles from me that gives away free OSB, plywood, mdf and other scraps from their manufacturing facility. Some of the pieces are rather large and loaded up my jeep with bigger 3 x 3 sheets on several occasions. Great for garage projects.